Augmatine

[AutoKal47]

Got it today and dosed 500mg prewo.. godawful feeling
It feels like my body is fighting against it, i don't know if it's normal
the first time but jeez... The nootropic effect is heavy and not in a good way
for me, trynna workout and find myself staring at dust flakes for I don't know how long
and i feel lethargic.. Pumps are the same, in my case would be great since i'm on Pump-Bol
right now as prewo, but agmatine didn't enhance that or anything else.. bah

[StackedCop]

Got it today and dosed 500mg prewo.. godawful feeling
It feels like my body is fighting against it, i don't know if it's normal
the first time but jeez... The nootropic effect is heavy and not in a good way
for me, trynna workout and find myself staring at dust flakes for I don't know how long
and i feel lethargic.. Pumps are the same, in my case would be great since i'm on Pump-Bol
right now as prewo, but agmatine didn't enhance that or anything else.. bah

What brand???

[Ev52]

Got it today and dosed 500mg prewo.. godawful feeling
It feels like my body is fighting against it, i don't know if it's normal
the first time but jeez... The nootropic effect is heavy and not in a good way
for me, trynna workout and find myself staring at dust flakes for I don't know how long
and i feel lethargic.. Pumps are the same, in my case would be great since i'm on Pump-Bol
right now as prewo, but agmatine didn't enhance that or anything else.. bah

That's crazy, maybe it lowered your blood sugar too low?

[AutoKal47]

What brand???

Bulk from Bulkpowders, anything I got from them so far
was very good quality and grade

That's crazy, maybe it lowered your blood sugar too low?

I don't know man, I know that 3 hours passed since I finished my wo and
I'm lethargic as sh#t, I parked the car at home and *passed out* in it for like 15 minutes..

WO was fine, but instead of helping me like I said, it felt like my body was fighting against it
at which point if I don't feel ok I get pissed and go on out of rage
I was able to carry on a good one anyway but the feeling was really ugly

[StackedCop]

What was your pre workout carb intake?

[AutoKal47]

What was your pre workout carb intake?

Carb? lol.. My DAILY carb intake is 30gr on wo days, split in three meals
traces on day off.
I do warrior diet/IF, wo fasted in the morning, only BCAA pre/intra/post,
multi, vit D, prewo product of the month (Pumpbol+Ultima right now)
ATM I'm also completely off stims

The best way to describe the effect is that it seemed like agmatine
took out my aggression in the gym.. man you take that out from me
is a problem..

[mr.cooper69]

Got it today and dosed 500mg prewo.. godawful feeling
It feels like my body is fighting against it, i don't know if it's normal
the first time but jeez... The nootropic effect is heavy and not in a good way
for me, trynna workout and find myself staring at dust flakes for I don't know how long
and i feel lethargic.. Pumps are the same, in my case would be great since i'm on Pump-Bol
right now as prewo, but agmatine didn't enhance that or anything else.. bah

That is honestly an extremely odd reaction, especially at 500mg. Lethargy is strange as well. Give it another shot when you get the chance. This time, take 500mg with a high carb meal to see how you react.

[AutoKal47]

That is honestly an extremely odd reaction, especially at 500mg. Lethargy is strange as well. Give it another shot when you get the chance. This time, take 500mg with a high carb meal to see how you react.

30gr of carbs is my daily carb intake (on wo days), split in 3 meals
if carbs are required for it to work is not the right sups for me.
I took another 500mg last night with my last meal anyway,
noticed nothing, then I went to bed not long after that so i wouldn't know..

I'll try it again on my day off (sat) and see

[Rhadam]

Hmm that's really odd. If you're always pretty carb depleted and the issues persist this might not be your "go to" supp. I've taken 1g Agmatine pre workout with no carbs and felt fine though.

[AutoKal47]

Hmm that's really odd. If you're always pretty carb depleted and the issues persist this might not be your "go to" supp. I've taken 1g Agmatine pre workout with no carbs and felt fine though.

Indeed.. I'll see if I can figure it out
I know that today I didn't take it prewo and had a
badass day in the gym. My aggression was back and
had a great wo.
I'll dose it tonight with my 2nd meal and see if
sides are back, if not another dose prebed, but
if there are no noticeable benefit I won't keep using it
even because I - very quickly and superficially - read
some possible problem with protein breakdown with this

Only thing is wth ima gonna do with 50gr of it if i don't
use it lol

[dinoiii]

30gr of carbs is my daily carb intake (on wo days), split in 3 meals
if carbs are required for it to work is not the right sups for me.
I took another 500mg last night with my last meal anyway,
noticed nothing, then I went to bed not long after that so i wouldn't know..

I'll try it again on my day off (sat) and see

Take a peak back at the slide show and the insulinomimetic action of the agent. You DO NOT need to take it with carbs, HOWEVER, you should add in a meal after taking it - probably about 45 min to an hour (not necessarily carb-laden...all macros will induce a spike in blood sugar and subsequent influx of insulin - contrary to what I think people are believing "ketosis" entails).

It's not the kind of supplement you will "notice" something for (in other words, it's not a stimulant) outside of prolonged pump (but it looks as though you are pretty lean to start, so I would think you are pretty vascular baseline)...

It is possibly something that can induce a GH response, BUT the food would blunt it - so even if before bed...you tried to promote GH with the supplement, but killed it with the food...as the normal GH-response on INDUCTION of sleep is rather large; probably your best in a 24-hour period.


D_

[dinoiii]

Indeed.. I'll see if I can figure it out
I know that today I didn't take it prewo and had a
badass day in the gym. My aggression was back and
had a great wo.
I'll dose it tonight with my 2nd meal and see if
sides are back, if not another dose prebed, but
if there are no noticeable benefit I won't keep using it
even because I - very quickly and superficially - read
some possible problem with protein breakdown with this

Only thing is wth ima gonna do with 50gr of it if i don't
use it lol

Unsure what you read about protein breakdown, but biogenic amines – like Agmatine – are formed by the breakdown of proteins in foods (not in the reverse order). Foods like beef, fish, bananas, avocados, mushrooms, chocolate, sauerkraut, and soy sauce are just some that contain Agmatine to varying degrees, though these levels can vary precipitously and drastically alter the amount you are ingesting. The problem is that as we age, it appears that our levels of amines decline and it becomes more pertinent and possibly more noticeable to the aged population that what you might expect to see (judging by your photo).


D_

[AutoKal47]

Thanks a lot Doc as usual

Ok then so is the fasting + agmatine that probably
did the trick on me..

So I will try to dose it close to meals/pre meals,
just not prewo for me since I wo fasted and my first meal
is hours after my wo

About the protein breakdown thing, it was a long a## thread on
another board and you're in it, I was about to read the whole thing
at some point

Is agmatine effects gonna improve/increase with use?

[AutoKal47]

Dosed 1gr with my last meal last night, results is it knocked me out
within 20 minutes or so, i feel asleep like a baby which I'm not complaining too much
about since it was late night.
But today? oh boy... it's 2.25PM and I cannot for the life of me connect my mind with my body,
I just do NOT give a damn about anything in the world.. No aggression again in the gym
(i'm just glad today was "whatever i feel like training day")..

There is some very wrong nootropic effect going on with this and my head.

Doc since you were involved in the formulation of it, could agmatine interact in some
bad way with Ultima(last version)?
Mine is a totally wild guess, but for example, I can't take a full scoop of Ultima
or I have this @_@ feeling, i focus yes, but I focus on EVERYTHING, it's too much for me
so usually i take half or a lil more. I'm saying this because the feeling it similar
to when I tried one full scoop of Ultima, just twice as much (I'm talking about the nootropic effect)
and much $hittier..

I'm hating the stuff

[dinoiii]

Thanks a lot Doc as usual

Ok then so is the fasting + agmatine that probably
did the trick on me..

So I will try to dose it close to meals/pre meals,
just not prewo for me since I wo fasted and my first meal
is hours after my wo

About the protein breakdown thing, it was a long a## thread on
another board and you're in it, I was about to read the whole thing
at some point

Is agmatine effects gonna improve/increase with use?

You should see a potentiated effect with multiple dosings.

Dosed 1gr with my last meal last night, results is it knocked me out
within 20 minutes or so, i feel asleep like a baby which I'm not complaining too much
about since it was late night.
But today? oh boy... it's 2.25PM and I cannot for the life of me connect my mind with my body,
I just do NOT give a damn about anything in the world.. No aggression again in the gym
(i'm just glad today was "whatever i feel like training day")..

There is some very wrong nootropic effect going on with this and my head.

Doc since you were involved in the formulation of it, could agmatine interact in some
bad way with Ultima(last version)?
Mine is a totally wild guess, but for example, I can't take a full scoop of Ultima
or I have this @_@ feeling, i focus yes, but I focus on EVERYTHING, it's too much for me
so usually i take half or a lil more. I'm saying this because the feeling it similar
to when I tried one full scoop of Ultima, just twice as much (I'm talking about the nootropic effect)
and much $hittier..

I'm hating the stuff

HA! Well, I was involved in the introduction of agmatine to the market as well as the ORIGINAL Ultima and V2; however, I had NO PART in V3. That said...I can discuss some issue I had with Ultima from the beginning...choline was originally dosed too high and it would induce a "sleepy" effect (we remedied that come V2); the TYROSINES are actually GABA-ergic and the acetylated version is very susceptible to crossing the BBB, for which 750mg might as well be 10 grams. Couple this with agmatine's role on the alpha 2 receptor (pre-synaptic) in the CNS and you are in for a very lethargic feeling. It would be very hard for me to do justice in a short piece like this on the imidazoline receptor - but this too is impacted with alpha 2 agonist to create a very "slowed-down" effect. That's why it's wonderful with chronic opioid users.

You could also be seeing effects from the insulinomimetic action as well as the serotonin effect (albeit a lot less) just due to how low you're keeping your carbs. I mean, what you are describing is VERY atypical from agmatine users BUT may make a lot of sense in someone like you and the little I have learned through this thread.


D_

[AutoKal47]

You should see a potentiated effect with multiple dosings.




HA! Well, I was involved in the introduction of agmatine to the market as well as the ORIGINAL Ultima and V2; however, I had NO PART in V3. That said...I can discuss some issue I had with Ultima from the beginning...choline was originally dosed too high and it would induce a "sleepy" effect (we remedied that come V2); the TYROSINES are actually GABA-ergic and the acetylated version is very susceptible to crossing the BBB, for which 750mg might as well be 10 grams. Couple this with agmatine's role on the alpha 2 receptor (pre-synaptic) in the CNS and you are in for a very lethargic feeling. It would be very hard for me to do justice in a short piece like this on the imidazoline receptor - but this too is impacted with alpha 2 agonist to create a very "slowed-down" effect. That's why it's wonderful with chronic opioid users.

You could also be seeing effects from the insulinomimetic action as well as the serotonin effect (albeit a lot less) just due to how low you're keeping your carbs. I mean, what you are describing is VERY atypical from agmatine users BUT may make a lot of sense in someone like you and the little I have learned through this thread.


D_

Damn I love your posts/replies so much is not even funny!

Soooo, what you describe is EXACTLY the kinda feeling, that slowed-down, sleepy effect, goddamn it was horrible (I mean, maybe if you wanna relax is ok, but PRE/DURINGWO? no thanks lol)

Man, now a LOT of things make sense to me... Quick resume: I use Lit-Up as my main prewo, i cycle it off every two tubs
usually ('cause the DAA and to keep my body to get used to it) I had two unopened tubs of Ultima which I was going to open after the above stack, to get off stims, and so I did.

Knowing that I couldn't take a full scoop of Ultima I added Pumpbol (beta ala nitrates, just saying in case some other interaction is going on here...) as main prewo and just took half (often less) scoop of Ultima 15 minutes later.

Since I added Ultima in the mix I started to have hard time starting the wo and while strength was there, my mind not so much,
I mean usually I'm a machine, mind-muscle connection and concentration are always there without me having to do nothing really.
Since Ultima I really had to force myself to stay alert and concentrated, I assumed it was because I was missing Lit-Up (even tho' never happened before..) but now that you tell me this: goddamn is Ultima causing this!!
My wild guess was somewhat right.. see? Instinct (because being ignorant is all i got lol)

I'm so very sensitive to nootropics, some work on me some other just f@ck with my mind a lot. Lit-Up has a lil bit of DMAE which
gives me the perfect concentration, just enough, and aggression is still there 100%.

So it's settled: skipping the damn Ultima tomorrow (Legs day yay!)
dosing Agamatine tonight with my 2nd meal and tomorrow morning prewo and see how it goes.

As for carbs, my daily intake is MAX 30gr a day on workout days, traces-to-none the day before refeed (which is day off),
but I've been doing this for years and never got any problems with any sups because of it, not GDAs not anything..
Is totally Ultima, I could feel it in my guts..

BTW, I started to do the refeed as you suggested and it worked great, I still can't eat complex carbs but cereals worked
very well, while not the best choice is my only choice atm. Got both some sugary ones and rice krispies (6gr of sugar for 100gr of carbs) did a refeed (not big, i'm taking baby steps) and everything went good,
not bloating, no water retention the next day and actually looking better

you're my savior Doc!

[AutoKal47]

Report on today's wo WITHOUT Ultima, agmatine dosed last night with my last meal (1gr):

..motherf#$(r!!.. I had a terrific workout! Legs day, took almost 30 minute LESS to finish my routine,
energy was up to the roof, concentration and aggression 100%, added sets and reps and broke PR on hack squat!

I'd say enough said.. but no, separation on quads today was insane, I could see striations everywhere on 'em, and on the sides
of my legs, I always have veins - which were bigger and more and nicer somehow - (due to great workout I don't imagine last night agmatine did that but who knows), but this was different it was that grainy look.. Just awesome.

F@ck Ultima seriously! wth?
I didn't dose Agmatine prewo today because I wanted to monitor one thing at the time,
now I can 100% say that agmatine wasn't the problem and I'm looking forward to use it and
see what brings to the table.

Thanks again Doc!

[Whacked]

Gotta love candid non-pimping feedback!

You're an extreme low carb guy. You think this might be relative? Just a guess as Ive seen some discussion of this stuff having blood sugar related attributes.

EDIT-Im failed to read follow up posts. IGNORE please - thx

Bulk from Bulkpowders, anything I got from them so far
was very good quality and grade



I don't know man, I know that 3 hours passed since I finished my wo and
I'm lethargic as sh#t, I parked the car at home and *passed out* in it for like 15 minutes..

WO was fine, but instead of helping me like I said, it felt like my body was fighting against it
at which point if I don't feel ok I get pissed and go on out of rage
I was able to carry on a good one anyway but the feeling was really ugly

e c

[AutoKal47]

Gotta love candid non-pimping feedback!

You're an extreme low carb guy. You think this might be relative? Just a guess as Ive seen some discussion of this stuff having blood sugar related attributes.

EDIT-Im failed to read follow up posts. IGNORE please - thx



e c

Absolutely, no pimpin' here bro
Hype-slayer manifesto ahah but Agmatine wasn't the cause indeed,
I am 101% certain that it was Ultima, today I had proof of it.
I'll dose agma tomorrow prewo too and see what happens

[Sourdough]

I'm interested in seeing if the pronounced pump effect is still present without a surplus of carbs in a diet like yours...

Does anything give you a decent pump?