Bloodwork results - low T and high E

[Xrkc6x]

i am 35
68.8-69 kg
8-10% fat


Hi guys, I just had my bloodwork results and I wanted to share it with you and see what do you think about it.

Some background:

Last October-December I've been running anavar and proviron + dermacryne for 10 weeks

after that I had my bloodwork and my T was shutted down, I was feeling **** and I knew what was the reason why, var shutted me down.

then my PCT

nolvadex 40/40/40/20/20
erase pro

and cannot remember now but I also took liver protection and Cycle guard + Cycle armor and Cycle support.

then i felt good and much better.

now I have tested again last week and I have low T and high E, I don't have side effects of a really low T, I am just depressed sometime that is it.

TEST results:

Cholesterol TOTAL 218 mg/dl (140-220)
Triglycerides 44mg/dl (60-160)
HDL 75mg/dl (30-70)
LDL 134mg/dl (up to 150)
Risk idnex is LOW 2.9 (3.5-4.8)

TESTOSTERONE 2.48 ng/ml (1.7-7.8)
Cortisol 24.7mcg/dl (9-23) --> i was fasted and i had no sleep
SHBG 48.7nmoli/L (9-55)
IGF-1 128ng/ml (82-225)
GH 0.098ng/ml (0.004-1.4)

LH 1.65 uUI/ml. (1.20-8.60)
FT3 2.34 pg/ml (2.5-3.9)
FT4 8.57 pmol/L (7-18)
TSH 2.64 ulU/ml. (0.34-5)
FSH 9.53uUl/ml. (1.30-19.30)

Prostate 0.21ng/ml (0-4)
Prolactin 9.59 ng/ml (2.6-13.1)
17 Beta Estradiol 40.00pg/ml. (<20)
Total Estrogen 28 (50-150)

I have been using erase pro for long time so maybe even that could affect the E levels? i don't know guys, I am jsut trying to understand, in the meantime my endocrinologist is working on it but I wanted to know what do you think please?

Also i have been on a loooooow fat diet for looooooong time.... so T could be affect byt that too.

thanks

 

[booneman77]

did you have bloods after your pct? If so, what was your post-pct baseline. If not, the short answer might be that you never fully recovered.

Low fat diet for the length of time you've been dieting is almost certainly not helping.

LH is low which leads me to think that you never fully recovered after the initial cycle. Someone else can probabaly chime in more on other causes of low LH but it seems odd to me that FSH is decent while LH is so low.

Prolactin is a bit high as well.

Estrogen is at a reasonable/average levels (maybe a tad bit high)

 

[Xrkc6x]

I didn't have the chance to test after pct

Beta 17 estradiol is way too high! It supposed to be less than 20 I have 40 or similar lol

What do you think should I do? I have revised my diet now and raised good fats and lowered proteins which wee too high, apart from that dunno what to do

 

[booneman77]

I didn't have the chance to test after pct

Beta 17 estradiol is way too high! It supposed to be less than 20 I have 40 or similar lol

What do you think should I do? I have revised my diet now and raised good fats and lowered proteins which wee too high, apart from that dunno what to do

hmm I skipped ove rthe b-estra and looked right to total e. From what I've read, total e seems to be more important (get a second opinion on this though ha)

Diet change is gonna be your best place to start and honestly you really would need to see where that gets you.

For the time being, I might add in a legit AI (not erase or any arimistane product) - either inhibit e or go for a rc adex or exemestane, something for cortisol (reduct xt - which i thought you did in pct), an dsomething for prolactin (prolactin makes me feel like total garbage) - inhibit p/prolactrone/doapdex

That sounded like a big SNS add but the productts work so it is what it is. Diet I think should be your priority right now tho and getting more bloods to see how that effects things before adding aton of supps is prob a good idea.

You might need to just drop all supps for awhile until you get your health straight. Don't want to have outside influences.

 

[Xrkc6x]

Yes man you right on reduce xt, overused it even after the pct.

Before adding more supps I'll see how the new diet works and ask the body and the mirror first then add the supplements if needed.

Atm I'm only taking shift that's it and my staples so no other products... Unless you count also pre wo like high volume.

So diet
Then blood tests
Then if needed supplements

I'll also wait for my endocrinologist and see what she says, in the meantime if you have any other idea feel free to share

 

[booneman77]

Yes man you right on reduce xt, overused it even after the pct.

Before adding more supps I'll see how the new diet works and ask the body and the mirror first then add the supplements if needed.

Atm I'm only taking shift that's it and my staples so no other products... Unless you count also pre wo like high volume.

So diet
Then blood tests
Then if needed supplements

I'll also wait for my endocrinologist and see what she says, in the meantime if you have any other idea feel free to share

before your next blood test I would cut EVERYTHING that's not food (for at least 2 weeks, if not longer). no staples, no nothing. Remove all variables and then attack the problem.

 

[Xrkc6x]

before your next blood test I would cut EVERYTHING that's not food (for at least 2 weeks, if not longer). no staples, no nothing. Remove all variables and then attack the problem.

Ok but I'll be only able to test in 2 months so I can't remove everything I know it sounds wrong but otherwise no cutting no nothing but I guess I can do it for 2 weeks and see how I feel tho, also I have no side effects that's even strange

 

[booneman77]

Ok but I'll be only able to test in 2 months so I can't remove everything I know it sounds wrong but otherwise no cutting no nothing but I guess I can do it for 2 weeks and see how I feel tho, also I have no side effects that's even strange

why can't you remove everything...? Your health is far more important than a few weeks of gains or fat loss. If you're depending on the supps to make you skinny or bulk then you're doing it wrong. Diet can and should do all of this, supplements are there to help it go faster.

Not all people will feel the same sides for different horone levels. Do you have any pre-cycle levels to compare to? You could have had naturally higher estrogen or prolactin and low test...

 

[Xrkc6x]

why can't you remove everything...? Your health is far more important than a few weeks of gains or fat loss. If you're depending on the supps to make you skinny or bulk then you're doing it wrong. Diet can and should do all of this, supplements are there to help it go faster.

Not all people will feel the same sides for different horone levels. Do you have any pre-cycle levels to compare to? You could have had naturally higher estrogen or prolactin and low test...

You right, it's just disappointing since I have done all I can to do everything right... And now...

I have just test to compare, it was something above 5 1 year ago

 

[booneman77]

You right, it's just disappointing since I have done all I can to do everything right... And now...

I have just test to compare, it was something above 5 1 year ago

what is disappointing? the test results?... thats the name of the game we play. Its always a risk that things will never be the same. thats the entire reason we preach to do research, know what you're getting into, know your body, dial in your diet, dial in your training, know the risks, know the potential lifelong consequences, find legit gear and even more legit pct items, etc etc.

 

[Xrkc6x]

what is disappointing? the test results?... thats the name of the game we play. Its always a risk that things will never be the same. thats the entire reason we preach to do research, know what you're getting into, know your body, dial in your diet, dial in your training, know the risks, know the potential lifelong consequences, find legit gear and even more legit pct items, etc etc.

Well you right and I agree but I did all it was in my power to avoid this and anyway I'm into this mess now and I will deal with it taking my responsibility.

Only trying to understand how to fix things

 

[booneman77]

Well you right and I agree but I did all it was in my power to avoid this and anyway I'm into this mess now and I will deal with it taking my responsibility.

Only trying to understand how to fix things

Honestly, the biggest issue might simply be that you've been dieting too long and too hard. Taking a diet break would probably do wonders for your health markers.

 

[Xrkc6x]

Honestly, the biggest issue might simply be that you've been dieting too long and too hard. Taking a diet break would probably do wonders for your health markers.

Hope you right again mate I was eating too much proteins and carb cycling and only 10-20g of fats per day, revised all now and I'm on 60g a day of fats 180g proteins and 160-70g carbs for 2022 kcal below 500-600 kcal my MBR and maintenance so.... Hopefully

 

[NoAddedHmones]

You had no sleep prior to test hence low T /end thread

Which isnt even low since its in range.

 

[Xrkc6x]

You had no sleep prior to test hence low T /end thread

Which isnt even low since its in range.

I agree with you but "that low" I thought that was the reason but it's too low I guess to address it only to the lack of sleep, I had 4h sleep the night before so probably it can affect the cortisol but what about high E too? That is to take in consideration I think..

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I agree with you but "that low" I thought that was the reason but it's too low I guess to address it only to the lack of sleep, I had 4h sleep the night before so probably it can affect the cortisol but what about high E too? That is to take in consideration I think..

Im not an endo. Get him to provide you with information. Be honest and tell him that you are stupid and run stupid long oral cycles.

 

[booneman77]

You had no sleep prior to test hence low T /end thread

Which isnt even low since its in range.

this is silly... lack of sleep would not tank test, raise estro, prolactin and cort, etc etc... Theres a legit issue with these numbers beyond "sleep, bro"

 

[Xrkc6x]

Im not an endo. Get him to provide you with information. Be honest and tell him that you are stupid and run stupid long oral cycles.

I know you are not I thought we were talking about the possibilities and variables, she knows everything of course and there's no need to offend me, if you want to share your thoughts you are welcome and I thank you but if you just wanna have fun here calling me "stupid" then I'll suggest you to avoid wasting your time responding to stupid ppl like me.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

this is silly... lack of sleep would not tank test, raise estro, prolactin and cort, etc etc... Theres a legit issue with these numbers beyond "sleep, bro"

I don't know what you are reading but everything is in range, we have no prior baseline to compare to and hes cort will be higher after lack of sleep and test falls over the course of the day after waking.

His total estrogen is in range??? What am i missing?

Again what us forum fairies say means diddly squat.

 

[Xrkc6x]

I don't know what you are reading but everything is in range, we have no prior baseline to compare to and hes cort will be higher after lack of sleep and test falls over the course of the day after waking.

His total estrogen is in range??? What am i missing?

Total is in range
Estradiol beta 17 is out
My previous test was 5.8 on 7

 

[booneman77]

I don't know what you are reading but everything is in range, we have no prior baseline to compare to and hes cort will be higher after lack of sleep and test falls over the course of the day after waking.

His total estrogen is in range??? What am i missing?

Again what us forum fairies say means diddly squat.

prolactin is relatively high

LH is relatively low

estradiol is crazy high (though i agree with the estro in range which is an odd thing to me)

test is in the low end of the range (at 7:30am)

these are not the results one would expect to see in a healthy, relatively young man.

 

[Xrkc6x]

Just to be honest, I agree and I know I didn't do a clever and intelligent thing running an oral for 10 weeks tho... But this is history and what I did in the past can't be changed but I can work now to fix things. What I mean is that calling me stupid is not helping me, while talking about the bloodwork results could help

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Just to be honest, I agree and I know I didn't do a clever and intelligent thing running an oral for 10 weeks tho... But this is history and what I did in the past can't be changed but I can work now to fix things. What I mean is that calling me stupid is not helping me, while talking about the bloodwork results could help

Sorry you misinterpreted what i said, i meant come out with your endo about it and tell him about your cycle. Didn't call you stupid, i said tell him your stupid and did bla bla bla and he will emphasise with you.

 

[Xrkc6x]

Sorry you misinterpreted what i said, i meant come out with your endo about it and tell him about your cycle. Didn't call you stupid, i said tell him your stupid and did bla bla bla and he will emphasise with you.

No worries man, all good I know I did a stupid thing and now I'm paying. I'm just trying to understand what I can do to improve my situation and why all those results were so out of range even after all these months.

I actually told her everything and hopefully she'll come back with some "next step" but in the meantime you are welcome to share your thoughts

 

[pracata]

Sorry for my noob question but the 2.48 is the same as testosterone level 248?

I'm at 272 and that's low

 

[Xrkc6x]

Sorry for my noob question but the 2.48 is the same as testosterone level 248?

I'm at 272 and that's low

I don't know man sorry, I had my bloodwork in Italy so it might also be a different range... Anyway that should be based on the measure unit, for example ml l DL L have a look to the unit next to your results and to mine above

 

[pracata]

Oh ok .yes different range reading. Sorry

 

[Xrkc6x]

Oh ok .yes different range reading. Sorry

No worries at least you know now, I'm glad I could help

 

[booneman77]

Sorry for my noob question but the 2.48 is the same as testosterone level 248?

I'm at 272 and that's low

I believe there's a conversion. Have to look it up tho

Edit: comes out to 247 ha

 

[pracata]

I believe there's a conversion. Have to look it up tho

Edit: comes out to 247 ha

Ok cool.thanks!

 

[Chuck Diesel]

In case anyone else wanted help, I posted this in another thread for him:

Ok, I haven't seen your log, or what you were on, or any test before this, I will just
help you understand what to take away from these results:




Cholesterol TOTAL 218 mg/dl (140-220)
Triglycerides 44mg/dl (60-160)
HDL 75mg/dl (30-70)
LDL 134mg/dl (up to 150)
Risk idnex is LOW 2.9 (3.5-4.8)

TESTOSTERONE 2.48 ng/ml (1.7-7.8)
Cortisol 24.7mcg/dl (9-23)
SHBG 48.7nmoli/L (9-55) on the high end
IGF-1 128ng/ml (82-225)
GH 0.098ng/ml (0.004-1.4)

LH 1.65 uUI/ml. (1.20-8.60) too low
FT3 2.34 pg/ml (2.5-3.9)
FT4 8.57 pmol/L (7-18)
TSH 2.64 ulU/ml. (0.34-5)
FSH 9.53uUl/ml. (1.30-19.30)

Prostate 0.21ng/ml (0-4)
Prolactin 9.59 ng/ml (2.6-13.1)
17 Beta Estradiol 40.00pg/ml. (<20) <- high
Total Estrogen 28 (50-150) <- sup to be low (total) in a male

Your cholesterol is high, do you eat a lot of saturated fat?
Your good cholesterol is high, which is good (HDL), but your LDL is
on the high end also.

Your total test is low, unless your are like 50 years old.
This is a measure of your total test more than likely which is
not as good as looking at free test.

With your SHBG being on the higher end, your free test is probably
low also, but high SHBG leads to low free test and low estrogen
(SHBG binds to both, you reduce SHBG you increase free test...but
also free estrogen).

Your LH is low, which leads to low total test and low libido.
I'd focus on getting your LH up, but that also depends on your
DHEA levels, when they are high, which yours may be bc your
cholesterol is high, then LH will drop when DHEA is high.

Cortisol is high even for fasted. You might want to drink
protein before bed or rhodiola.

Now to estrogen, 17 Beta is a normal estrodiol test.
Normal is acturally 10-50 pg/ml, Not sure why you need to be
less than 20 even though that is ideal, more of a problem
is your test is low but estrodiol is high. Usually higher
estrodiol is expected with high total test.

"total" estrogen,
can be 17-a, 17-b, 2-hydroxy, estron, etc. Estrodiol is an estrogen.
I'd only look at the 17 beta results, total estrogen should be low
because men don't produce all forms of estrogen. Usually they only give
a total estrogen test to women, but if it was high, it would probably
have your provider do a full estrogen panel. The whole numbers of the
two are not the same bc total estrogen isnt in pg/ml

You are converting too much test to (male) estrogen (17 beta estrodiol). <-- bottom line

If you took something for instance to reduce SHBG like nettle extract, your estrogen would shoot up even higher.
I would try to get cortisol down, estrogen down and LH up.

 

[Xrkc6x]

thanks a lot to all of you guys to look into this

 

[Xrkc6x]

my endocrinologist wants to prescribe me with aromasin, I told her that I wouldn't want to take meds and she said "in that case you will have to wait long time until levels come back normal" otherwise use the quick way and use the aromasin.

what do you think guys? any of you had any experience with it? i had a look online and it is supposed to be a great AI and increase also the T and not affecting cholesterol....

thoughts?

thanks

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Well what she said is true kinda. The drug will get them low while on the,drug. Like i said in PM.....if you naturally have high aromatase activity taking an AI is like taking caffeine if ur sleepy. Soon as you stop taking it....you will b tired again BUT it will fix the problem while ur on it relatively fast. It wont necessarily jump start your HTPA or get your system back on track. So what the endocrinologist is saying is correct log as you dont think it is guaranteed to permanently correct high estrogen

 

[Xrkc6x]

Well what she said is true kinda. The drug will get them low while on the,drug. Like i said in PM.....if you naturally have high aromatase activity taking an AI is like taking caffeine if ur sleepy. Soon as you stop taking it....you will b tired again BUT it will fix the problem while ur on it relatively fast. It wont necessarily jump start your HTPA or get your system back on track. So what the endocrinologist is saying is correct log as you dont think it is guaranteed to permanently correct high estrogen

yep and that was one of the question I asked to her... what about when I will finish? and she said that aromasin despite the other AI like tamoxifen and clomid will increase T too and recover the HTPA, also won't have rebound effect, once stopped the ester will stay low until I will **** it up again.... so..... but you are saying the opposite?

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Im saying it isnt guaranteed to stay low bc ur problem is high aromatase activity. Its like men on TRT. You stop taking test injections you can expect your test to stay high. Also the only diffence between a natural AI and a drug is level of efficacy not how they affect the body. So natural or drug same thing depending on how effective the natural AI is. Everyone is dif. I dont respond to aromadex but im super sensitive to ATD. They also are not so super high your gonna turn into a girl. They are just "kinda" high. Id use the AI but dont expect it fix the problem and dont not expect it to. Use it to see what happens. No drug permanently does anything unlesd its damage.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

"Cant not can" about the test injections. On my phone doing cardo

 

[Xrkc6x]

but if I am not wrong aromasin is suicidal AI so there should be any chance that when I stop taking it there will be any rebound effect, that is why she insisted on that one.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Rebound effect is something totally, dif from what i am saying. I am not saying the AI will cause ur levels to go up when you,stop taking it....ur levels already up. Its like women and birth control. Long after they stop taking it they have high shbg as in naturally. So the problem is they need there shbg lowered natually not by a suicide shgb substance. Hormones are produced in cycles. So if ur estogen high today and still high a week from now....thats not the same estrogen...its,new estrogen. Get what im saying. A,suicide inhibitor will get rid of estrogen...you still will make more bc ur estrogen isnt high from a recent spike in testosterone

 

[Chuck Diesel]

A suicide inhibitor is something you use while cutting or on something boosting test. You need to find a way to lower ur natural aromatase activity. Esp since your total test isnt high. Most males with ur estrogen levels have high test levels (in a normal setting such as ppwerlifters)

 

[Xrkc6x]

Rebound effect is something totally, dif from what i am saying. I am not saying the AI will cause ur levels to go up when you,stop taking it....ur levels already up. Its like women and birth control. Long after they stop taking it they have high shbg as in naturally. So the problem is they need there shbg lowered natually not by a suicide shgb substance. Hormones are produced in cycles. So if ur estogen high today and still high a week from now....thats not the same estrogen...its,new estrogen. Get what im saying. A,suicide inhibitor will get rid of estrogen...you still will make more bc ur estrogen isnt high from a recent spike in testosterone

sorry if i am misunderstood but I am not an expert as you probably are I still don't get you, are you saying naturally i am producing lot of estrogens? cause I did not use to be like this before I ran the cycle...

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Natually, u have high aromatase activity. Probably because your cycle. Your cycle also didnt taper down. It went like 100/100 stop. Let me expain it again. Say you use 400mg every am for 8 weeks (a cycle)then do 200mg 2 days then stop (how ur cycle ended......doc says take asprin for ur headaches (AI) you stop the AI u still will have headache bc u fcked up ur CNS from high caffeine intake for a certain amount of time from over dilation of blood vessels in ur brain (high aromatase activity ) as a result of ur cycle bc ur body got use to the vasconstriction of the caffeine (ur cycle)

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Thats 400mg of caffeiene

 

[Xrkc6x]

Natually, u have high aromatase activity. Probably because your cycle. Your cycle also didnt taper down. It went like 100/100 stop. Let me expain it again. Say you use 400mg every am for 8 weeks (a cycle)then do 200mg 2 days then stop (how ur cycle ended......doc says take asprin for ur headaches (AI) you stop the AI u still will have headache bc u fcked up ur CNS from high caffeine intake for a certain amount of time from over dilation of blood vessels in ur brain (high aromatase activity ) as a result of ur cycle bc ur body got use to the vasconstriction of the caffeine (ur cycle)

ok, got you now, so what would be a solution then? end is saying taking aromasin will fi this, of course not 100% bit this is what doctor said... I am just not sure to take meds again... seems silly but I did not want to take any pharmaceutical thing, well if it has to be like that I will do it tho, just want to fix things

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Ur cycle was long and ended, abruptly, therefore ur problem is bigger, than needing just an AI

 

[Xrkc6x]

Ur cycle was long and ended, abruptly, therefore ur problem is bigger, than needing just an AI

i know that but this is what end said, i have not the knowledge to tell if there are any other possible solution right now, if you have idea you are welcome i can listen to all the ideas here but what I will do is following my endo based on science

thanks btw for your support

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Yeah use the AI for now

 

[Xrkc6x]

Yeah use the AI for now

I will and I will keep you posted, thanks a lot

 

[Xrkc6x]

Blood Test Results guys!

before -->

TEST results:

TESTOSTERONE 7.6 nmol/L
Cortisol 681.473 nmol/L
SHBG 48.7nmol/L
LH 1.65 uUI/ml.
FSH 9.53uUl/ml. (1.30-19.30)
17 Beta Estradiol 146.84 pmol/L (<73)

after starting aromasin and changing diet (adding more fats)

started aromasin at 6.25mg ED on 6th of June
started aromasin at 12,5mg ED from 15th of June
currently still at 12,5mg ED

TEST results:

TESTOSTERONE 15.9 nmol/L range --> 7.6 - 31.4
CORTISOL * 755 nmol/l range --> Ref.ranges: 9 am 171 to 536 : Midnight <140
SHBG 44 nmol/L range --> 16 - 55
LH 5.9 IU/L range --> 1.7 - 8.6
FSH * 13.6 IU/L range --> 1.5 - 12.4
17-Beta OESTRADIOL * <44 pmol/L range --> <73
D.H.E.A. Sulphate 6.3 umol/L range --> 0.44 - 13.4
Testosterone/SHBG Ratio 36.1 range --> 24 - 104


what do you think?

I am pretty much happy please comment