Mind Steriods or Noots
- 12-11-2012, 09:47 AM
- 12-23-2012, 10:54 PM
Heads up that Amazon just pulled all racetams from their site. No idea why, but if I catch word that it is the start of something, better bet I'll have a few years of Ani coming my way.
- 12-23-2012, 11:10 PM
12-23-2012, 11:39 PM
Anyone in here taking and liking Stablon? I'm about to order myself some more again for longterm use. I have no need for other noots when I'm on stablon. Does everything I need it to, it's just a bit pricey.
12-24-2012, 12:33 AM
12-24-2012, 07:36 AM
12-24-2012, 10:00 AM
12-24-2012, 10:07 AM
12-24-2012, 10:15 AM
12-24-2012, 05:20 PM
12-26-2012, 08:34 AM
12-26-2012, 02:07 PM
Looks like a lot of the same Amazon sellers are still on Ebay...at least for the moment. I don't know what the shelf life of Ani is, but I have about a year's worth at the moment and am hesitant to stock up on more.
12-26-2012, 10:06 PM
The last two bottles I bought had an expiration of 8/14, so I am going to pick up a year or so worth and hope that things change.
Interesting, I just received the first of my 2 year supply and none of the bottles have expiration dates. I called the company and they said that as long as the bottles stay in cool or room temperature, they will be fine for 2-3 years and then the potency "may" start to decrease a little. They didn't have any evidence of this, but searching on other forums, 2-4 years seems to be what others have found.
12-27-2012, 08:19 AM
12-27-2012, 09:42 AM
Noots are curious because they affect people a little differently. You really need to read up on them and experiment. For most of us, they are incredible. I've posted this many times, but I had a different experience on all of them and Aniracetam is about the closest thing I have ever found to the perfect mind/body supplement. After taking it for sometime, I know what to expect now, but it was a real eye opener when I first started.
45min-1 hour after ingestion: a slight wave of relief and calmness in my mind. Almost like things slow down slightly and it is easier to pull things together and focus. Some people get a tired feeling when they are first starting because they likely aren't used to this "slowing down". For me, with a mind that doesn't stop, it was welcome. Then for the next 2-5 hours, you have a feel of very clear and quick recall. No looking for words and no awareness of having to think of how or what to say. It is very good for social activities and speaking engagements because it helps confidence in your talking. The fact that it has been shown as a potent anxiolytic likely aids in this social confidence as well.
Pramiracetam made me very aware and mentally awake, but at the detriment of feeling well physically. It made me sweaty and anxious and looking for things to do. A cool feeling, but almost like I drank a pot of coffee. Makes it hard in social situations.
Piracetam made me very tired and dull. I could see it being good for heavy studying or reading a book, but very emotionally dull and just "out of it". For some people, it works very well, it didn't for me.
12-27-2012, 05:00 PM
01-28-2013, 10:54 AM
I've found that I get absolutely nothing from aniracetam unless I take it with fish oil. It was useless even after eating fatty foods or drinking milk. I'm currently a week in of using BoostYour grade's Ani-choline combo.
01-28-2013, 12:39 PM
What was the effect you were able to feel after including the fish oil? I am very familiar with what to expect from Ani, but always interested in others findings.
01-28-2013, 01:15 PM
01-28-2013, 05:22 PM
01-28-2013, 05:50 PM
01-28-2013, 06:26 PM
Ani should always be taken with some healthy fats anyways. I take mine with Krill Oil caps if I can't take it with a meal because of it's quick absorption. Ani also has an anxiolytic component to it as well not evidenced in the likes of Piracetam or Prami. It does stack decent, in my experience with 10mgs Noopept but I rarely take it first thing in the morning. Normally, I'd dose it at 1500-1600mgs with some fish oils or a meal and that's about it for the day. I'll cycle on and off various noots every few months. If you haven't tried 500mgs of a dopamine precursor like L-Phen/ or acetyl l-tyrosine + 450mgs artichoke extract and 10mgs coleus forskolii, it's relatively cheap and I, like others, have had significant results with it in terms of focus, alertness, cognition and overall mood. Google Long Term Potentiation and Artichoke Extract and it should take you to some info on this stack...gaining quite the popularity even by longtime noot users. I picked it up just based on user experiences and because it was cheap. Already had the dopamine precursor anyways. Worth the money and I'm on day 8 or 9, used first thing in the morning with my medium coffee. Nice effect.
01-28-2013, 06:51 PM
01-28-2013, 07:24 PM
01-28-2013, 08:22 PM
01-28-2013, 08:51 PM
I read through a couple of threads on the coleus forskolii + artichoke + other things. The coleus forskolii is the prime supplement here. I may check out new info on it. Some people said it can get too strong, others suggested it worked well for a while then became negative in some way or another. The artichoke was a compromise as another stronger sup was used earlier.
01-28-2013, 09:18 PM
Yes, you're right in a number of things. For one, I always cycle off my noots. I was on 2 months of Noopept and decided to just come off for a month or so despite some noticeable and positive effects. I don't take the aforementioned CILTEP regimen on the weekends as I know that the dopamine precursors can also lose their ooomph. Artichoke extract seems to have less sides than some of the other things people tried from what I've read. I know Coleus Forskolii has it's own beneficial effects but I think the dopamine precursor, combined with some caffeine help make me more alert and focused in the morning regardless..and the effects seem to last longer than any of the stims I've tried in the past although i've never tried any pharm or illicit stims (barring coke in my younger days...never quite cared for it..tG) There are a number of supps you can use to inhibit PDE4 but many carry their own host of adverse effects. Anyways, it's not like a blow your mind nootropic thus far, but I obviously have to use it for a couple months to give it a fair shot at what it's supposed to do. I haven't found it to be too strong and I'm kind of sensitive to L-Tyrosine in that it makes me irritable. I've, in the past, had much more success (when trying to boost mood only) with DLPA (go figure). I'll switch up between L-Phenylalanine (500mgs) or 350mgs Acetyl L-Tyrosine just to see if I notice anything different. Tomorrow, instead of the caffeine, I will try 200mgs of Sulbutiamine instead. Anyways, since I can't post the link, I found this summation of the CILTEP regimen to be nice.
The stack works by inducing long-term potentiation, which is an enhancement of signal transmission between two neurons that results from stimulating both of them at the same time. LTP is a major underlying factor in synaptic plasticity, and is considered one of the major cellular mechanisms that underlies learning and memory. 
The need for synaptic activation of LTP can be bypassed by taking supplements which raise cAMP concentrations, combined with a PDE4 inhibitor to prevent the depletion of cAMP. 
Dopamine has also been implicated in playing a role in LTP. Through PDE4 inhibition and increased cAMP concentrations, this stack regimen improves the effectiveness at dopamine functioning more effective at triggering learning and memory processes. The normal chemical dynamics of the dopamine system are preserved, which prevents down-regulation of the dopamine receptors. 
Forskolin (5 – 15 mg) – Forskolin works to increase levels of cAMP. The dosage listed is the amount of the active ingredient in an extract. So if you purchase 200 mg capsules of 10% extract, each capsule will have 20 mg of Forskolin.
Artichoke Extract (~ 500 mg) – Artichoke extract is a fairly selective PDE4 inhibitor at recommended doses. While this regimen was being refined many other PDE4 inhibitors were tried, however most were found to have adverse side effects.
Phenylalanine or Other Dopamine Precursor (~500 mg) – Research has shown that increased intracellular cAMP increases the rate of dopamine synthesis.  In addition, the cascade effect that leads to induced LTP requires dopamine receptor activation.  For this reason, you’ll want to make sure you keep your brain well stocked with the raw materials it needs to create additional dopamine. See below for possible choices. Phenylalanine is the recommended dopamine precursor to use, as it is typically well tolerated by most people. Tyrosine is another decent choice, through it has caused adverse side effects in some.
Optional Stimulant – One hole in this regimen is that it doesn’t directly provide a boost to drive or executive function. Many have plugged this gap by taking a stimulant along with the regimen. A moderate dose of caffeine (~ 100 mg) is the safest choice in this regard, and synergies well with the regimen because it blocks increased PDE4 activity due to endogenous adenoside acting on the A2A receptor. 
Sulbutiamine is another safe choice to improve motivation and drive. It is a nootropic which provides boosts to motivation and mental energy without the side effects typically associated with traditional stimulants. Amphetamines work well with this stack, but keep in mind that this regimen dramatically potentates stimulants. If you typically take 20 mg of adderall, for example, don’t exceed 5 mg when using this regimen.
Using The Regimen
This regimen is somewhat stimulating, so to avoid insomnia it is best taken first thing in the morning, before eating. Don’t exceed the recommended doses by too much, as fatigue can set in after continuous use at high doses.
It is also recommended that you cease taking other supplements when you start this regimen, then slowly introduce them back to gauge if they will alter its effects.
When purchasing Forskolin, look for the highest potency extract as possible. Non-active plant matter in Forskolii has been shown to increase liver enzymes at high doses. Though it doesn’t appear to cause any permanent damage, a high potency extract will lack the plant matter responsible for this. Also, supplementing with Milk Thisle is a good idea if you want to be cautious.
Don’t exceed the recommended doses. Doses of Forskolin exceeding 15 mg have been shown to cause fatigue after days to weeks of continuous use. If you experience this side effect, cease the use of the stack for 3 days, and consume 8 mg of Galantamine for each of those 3 days. You may then resume taking the stack.
Artichoke extract is less selective in its PDE inhibition at higher doses, and could potentially cause sexual side effects at very high doses due to PDE5 inhibition. Drugs such as Viagra work by inhibiting PDE5.
Early in the original thread, Hasperidin was considered as a possible addition to the stack. Unfortunately, after a few days of use it caused daytime drowsiness and other adverse side effects. It was determined to not be a good addition to the stack.
Whether or not combining ‘racetams with this stack is still up for debate. Many state that a ‘racetam could be a good addition because this stack only targets long-term memory. It is universally accepted that Aniracetam does not mix well with this stack, however.
For more nootropic regimens, and to learn how to use nootropics, mental exercise, and lifestyle changes to maximize your cognitive performance, check out our free cognitive enhancement ecourse. Sign up and get the first chapter of Building Brainpower for free!
To learn more about this regimen, read the original thread in which it was created.
h t t p://w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16672292
h t t p://w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21984943
ht tp://w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20969573
ht tp s://w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17064352
htt p://w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21057772
htt p://w w w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9282956#
02-15-2013, 04:37 PM
Heck of a post xsiv, I wonder why you say Aniracetam doesn't mix well here, is it too AMPA stimulation?
02-15-2013, 09:14 PM
Unsure why that's been reported, but its all anecdotal. The original thread is on longevity along with many members who've tried variations. I personally like aniracetam so have been reserving it for weekends as of late.
02-22-2013, 04:36 PM
Ah nice, yea I love Ani too. I typically use the weekends as a break from it, the head sharpening + anxiolytic quality makes it perfect for my work.
02-22-2013, 07:14 PM
I've read Eric Kandel's "In Search of Memory," and Jeff Hawkin's "On Intelligence" over the last few days. Kandel is one
of the main scientists working on LTP, and Hawkins is an engineer with a facination for brain science who has taken his
fortune made from mobile computing devices, and started his own brain institution in 2002. Hawkins has created a theory
where he places the hippocampus at the top rung of the neocortex for consolidating memory. Good theory, as it makes
many things work together that wouldn't fit without this idea.
It is the hippocampus that has "place" cells that probabably help us put things in a spacial context. Hawkins adds that the
hippocampus also has a time relating ability too. Without a space and time holding ability we cannot create initial long
term memories. The hippocampus processes these memories for one to three years and then sends them back to the areas
in the neocortex that first worked with them.
In simple terms: Tom Hanks as the Captain in "Saving Private Ryan," replied, after Ryan told him he couldn't remember
his brothers' faces, "You need a context." When Ryan remembered the barn episode, he remembered the faces of his
The interesting thing about the hippocampus is it is both capable of making new axions and strengthening synapes, and it
can actually grow new neurons by using stim cells. The rest of the neocortex can strengthen synapes, with new axions and
branches, but there is no proof that neurons can be replaced. The hippocampus also has the highest death rate of neu rons
under all conditions, but especially bad conditions such as depression or extreme stress. LTP goes on in the hippocampus
I'm interested in much more than LTP though as the whole area of "Attention" is a study onto it's own. William James had
some interesting things to say about it over a 100 years ago. Also when the mind goes into "search mode" or has clues but
needs to discover modulating territory to solve difficult "Aha!" type answers, and how playfulness effects attention and the
mind. Eric Kandel said that attention is one of his greatest interests (as of 2007) when he wrote "In Search of Memory" He would use his typical bottom-up methods of looking into hippocampus place cells first.
02-22-2013, 08:36 PM
02-22-2013, 08:48 PM
02-22-2013, 09:54 PM
The last thing I did this afternoon since it was Friday was dose with 500mgs Quercetin and then 30 minutes later, 500 mgs of PEA followed by a small coffee on the way to Best Buy after work. Very pleasant feeling but not inebriating, didn't cause nausea and I could use a relatively small dose of PEA and have it last for 2-3 hrs. Unheard of when taking PEA alone. I realize it's an 'occasional' and sporadic thing to do...but for a Friday afternoon, it was actually pretty good.. I was already pretty happy that it was the weekend, and this just solidified it that much more. More on this later...it's sexy time here.
02-23-2013, 07:45 PM
Ani seems to be a relaxing racetam. Relaxed intelligence is good for searching or seeking modes of thinking and alpha states, also a different kind of playfulness flows than the more aggressive stim playfulness one gets from dopamine highs. If LTP heightening has a stim effect, that is only a small part of it. It does seem to be enhanced by a moderate dose of stims.
I purchased Eric Kandel's book and Jeff Hawkins' book because they come at brain science from two different directions. Eric's is a bottom-upward (from cells, simple biology, and neurochemistry to brain function), and Jeff's is top-downward (form an overall theory of brain/intelligence and see how the parts work). When searching for answers it is good to combine the bests sources of each of these to get answers.
I may buy Kandel's 1760 page text for graduate level neurophysiologists in it's 2012 edition, but not quite ready for that yet. I will read Kandel's "The Age of Insight," next as I have that already. He has a rather large chapter in there about top-down processing, where he states that most of the time people have to deal with details for survival, and that is bottom-up processing.
02-24-2013, 04:22 PM
I got in some more Aniractam from the same place Ive ordered before. My Doc. has taken me off Paxil and put me on low dose Prozac to help with coming off Paxil (awful by the way) and am planning on coming off Prozac under his care in the near future and try a natural approach to get my anxiety and depression under control. The first time I tried the Ani/AGPC while on Pax. the first week or so it was great and then seemd to fade the longer I took the combo daily,750 Ani/500AGPC twice a day. Yesterday I took the same as before and by the end of the day I felt about as depressed as I can remember, it was not a good day. I had a good nights rest last night and seem to be feeling mentally better today, I did not take the combo today. I,m not sure why the negative reaction yesterday. Ideas !!!! anyone...
02-24-2013, 07:01 PM
How long have you been on SSRIs? Ani has anti anxiety properties, but is not known to reduce depression, I believe. I really don't know much about this area, but I'm currently looking into emotional connections in the brain. Many problems seem to be around the connections between the hippocampus and the amygdala. That doesn't help you much at this point, and I'm not sure even the top scientists/pros in these areas have easy answers. Once I know more about the basics and the wiring/connections in the brain, I would like to go out and read the current papers on whats going on in the difficult area of depression. Neuron death in the hippocampus is often involved in depression, and the major factor in that is too much of the wrong kinds of stress.
The obvious thing is how long you've been on SSRIs and how strong the doses. All of these drugs can have sides that can lead to depression, in spite of the fact that they are supposed to help depression.
You might try aerobic exercise several times a week if you are not already, and mindfulness meditation (belly breathing, general awareness, and relaxed state). And I'm not recommending it, as I have not tried it yet, but the CILTEP protocol that xsiv1 talked about above is known to strengthen synapses. Aerobic exercise is known to use stim cells to create new fresh neurons in the hippocampus.
Mindfulness meditation is a long-term solution, so I don't usually talk much about it, but it is all about rewiring the brain to a better state. OCD, thought to be a brain wiring problem from birth, has been cured by mindful meditation in a fair number of cases. There is a book on Amazon on using Mindfulness to overcome depression called, "The Mindful Way Through Depression."
02-24-2013, 08:30 PM
I can offer you some advice I think. One of the reasons I avoid Quercetin as much as I can, is because it exhibits some weak MAOi properties which are contraindicated while using an SSRI. I've used various compounds that technically interfere with Paxil but I've been on it so long that I haven't come close to experiencing any type of Serotonin syndrome. There are a number of natural supplements you can use to help you with anxiety, sleep, and even depression. Unfortunately, you have to be careful with the compounds that exhibit serotonin-enhancing effects while on any AD. You could get away with Rhodiola use I'd think. I use a cocktail called Stress-Assist by futurebiotics and it contains some Ashwaghanda, Rhodiola, B vits and, imo, most importantly a quality L-theanine product. Many people don't feel the effects of L-theanine or they're too subtle, but, Suntheanine specifically, works! It helps to block excessive glutamate (your body's chief excitatory neurotransmitter) and it also assists in upregulating Gaba receptors. It can present some nootropic properties when combined with caffeine but, in essence, it promotes the brain's alpha waves which are responsible for a relaxed, yet alert state. Bacopa Monnieri is another one that displays nootropic properties, doesn't downregulate gaba, and is an effective anxiolytic. Honokiol extract is another one that I have experience with and know to be effective. You'll find an abundance of novel and not so novel compounds that'll work for you - this I guarantee. What you're going through should never have happened. If the FDA, big Pharma, pdocs, and even to an extent, family physicians exercised their due diligence (to prevent harm), they'd have taken you off Paxil at the first signs of remission. Unfortunately, for me, many doctors didn't know enough about them and they're not the only ones to blame. We need to be the primary advocates for our own health as well.. Keeping apprised on information/research for any pharmaceutical medication you're put on is pretty important. What I do, is I mix up my regimens and keep my body guessing for the most part. Aniracetam is fine and should help you cognitively speaking but it's anxiolytic action isn't that pronounced. For an extensive list of helpful anti-anxiety compounds, you could look to this thread: longecity . org/forum/topic/54028-treating-anxiety-safely-effectively/ or google it since I can't post links yet.
Word of caution. Scienceguy is a bright dude, but I don't think he has a good grasp on the value of pharmaceutical drugs (when they're needed - which I can still respect) and the role Gaba agonists can play when treating people effectively. The key with any gaba agonist is eliminating chronic use or abuse. Used sparingly, they make for wonderful anxiolytic compounds. I'd disregard his DO NOT TAKE list, only if you're not prone to addiction. Compounds such as phenibut (if you're a positive responder) make wonderful therapeutic alternatives to pharms only when used once in a while. I'd refrain from using it more than once a week..but that's me. Anyways, I know a lot about this because I've been in your shoes so-to-speak and have read hundreds of pages of information. One book that I've enjoyed reading is Eric Braverman's The Edge Effect. It's pretty good.
02-24-2013, 08:43 PM
I know Im not much help in the line of mental health as its the blind leading the dumb hear.
I've got severe anxiety with mild depression. I was so wound up that i was always busier than a cat trying to bury ****. So much to the point to where i was diagnosed with add. Still think i have that but that's another topic.
Long story short, i got put on lexpro @ 10mg po qd. It changed my life for the better. Lexapro is an ssri but it is much better than pail or prosaic at treating both anxiety and depression.
In my journey i have discovered noots. i haven't tried them all, but i currently take prami concurrent with ny ssri and the effects are amplified tremendously. Im always able to focus. I am always happy. Not that odd happy valley kind of happy but a true feeling of happiness and calmness. I don't have the lack of feelings and emotions that many people on paxil and prozac experience. I also haven't had any sexual side effects aside from a little bit of had tIm getting off when i first started. That went away after about a week. But again, more on that later. And i don't feel like Im about to always come unglued. it really has made me a better me. I've been doin this for close to 6 months now and its been wonderfull. I still get stressed obviously. It doesn't make the stress go away, it just makes it so much more manageable and i feel like i can handle it and not be overwhelmed. It really always does give me that light at the end of the tunnel that we that suffer from gad are always searching for.
My add was originally treated with adderall as most ppl are. That obviously made my issues worse. And the sexual sides from the Lexapro haven't been anything but good. Im still hard as a rock and who doesn't like lasting 20 or 30 minutes in bed? I mean really? I love it, most importantly my wife loves it, and frankly it makes you feel pretty good that you can make peter north look like a 15 year old first timer. I say that cause many ssris (especially paxil) are notorious for offing with your sex life and Lexapro hasn't done anything but be of benefit to mine.
Hope this helps man
02-24-2013, 08:44 PM
I should also note that you may get some great effects from the CILTEP regimen. It really keeps you focused, alert, and in a decent mood for the first half of your day. I wouldn't be surprised by these affects within the first week of it...and the plus to it - it's cheap. Worth a shot. Last thing I wanted to mention that I really think will be of some help to you...is to try Magnesium L-Threonate. 3 per day. Best magnesium supplement I've ever tried.
Similar Forum Threads
- By getupforletdo in forum AnabolicsReplies: 2Last Post: 03-23-2008, 09:33 PM
- By keater824 in forum SupplementsReplies: 2Last Post: 03-25-2007, 06:17 PM
- By Changing in forum AnabolicsReplies: 14Last Post: 09-19-2005, 08:59 PM