Mind Steriods or Noots
- 08-03-2012, 09:54 AM
I,m about two and half weeks into my Ani/Choline supplementation and the results are really suprising. I actually look foward to getting out of bed now so I can take this stack and get the day going. I am able to recall info like I havent in what feels like years, I am much sharper at work and more confident when speaking to people, the words just flow easily. I,ve already stated this before, but this stack has helped my anxiety alot. I just feel sharp and calm at the same time, which is huge for me personally. Great thread !!!
- 08-03-2012, 10:02 AM
Here is the thing with Rhodiola- it varies greatly based on where it is harvested and by what company. You want at least 3% rosavins. I experimented with about 6-7 brands before I found that Gaia had the right dose and approx 4% rosavins. Anything over 150mg per serving and I am bonkers with energy and then it is walking a fine line because too much and it works as a sedative. I take 120mg at 4% rosavins twice a day.
I tried the Jarrow brand 500mg first and lost my mind. This is one of the supplements where too much is a bad thing. I took it and 30 minutes later I was sweating profusely and had to go for a run to get the nervous energy out. I distinctly remember running for 12 miles and then looking for anything active to do for the next 4-5 just to keep going. Amazing for any endurance event, but bad for everyday living.
I then tried another brand, New Chapter(?), I think. The rosavins were around 5-6% and that was too strong for me. 250mg and I couldn't get off the the couch and just wanted to sleep. I finally gave in to it and laid down for a nap and woke up 6 hours later.
My point is- read a lot of reviews and prepare to do a lot of experimentation. People swear by the brands that work for them for a reason. It's a real curious herb. I HIGHLY recommend not capping your own and not knowing what you are getting every time. Too many variables in that, imo.
I will add that once you find one that works for you, it is a great supplement. Very balanced energy throughout the day with little to no "peaking" or valley. After it builds in your system, you'll find that you can knock 1-2 hours of sleep off and feel fully rested. I used to drink 2 cups of coffee every morning until last year when I started this and now I drink 1/2 cup with the same effects.
08-03-2012, 01:23 PM
08-03-2012, 01:41 PM
Yeah, I use it non stop and have never noticed any diminishing effect. I have studied it a lot and rarely hear of people cycling off of it for any purpose. Not to say that you shouldn't, I just haven't read about that or experienced a reason personally. I take it religiously. I stopped for about 3 weeks a month or so ago and noticed within a week that I wanted a boost in the mid afternoon like I did before I started taking this. The typical 2pm lag that is non existent with Rhodiola. Started it back up last week and life is good.
08-03-2012, 08:15 PM
I will need to make some notes when I take the Rhodiola. Stuff i got says 3-4%. I was going to do pills at 200mg each but went with 100g powder instead. Even if saving a few bux it will help me. I did then spend a few $ on a good reviewed digital scale that will measure as low as .01g.
again appreciate the help.
Hope my stack helps me with school. My current stack I find somedays I am more focused then others. Need to note my diet too but is pretty much same during week. I am increasing fish oils to 4g per day.
i need to make a lil spreadsheet with when to take what at this point. Seems some of my stack needs food, least fats, and some better on empty tank.
08-04-2012, 12:17 AM
Yeah, it is an ongoing experiment for sure. I feel that I finally have it pretty dialed in, but it literally took about 2 years of trial and error and lots of wasted money. I do think that for anyone looking to maximize mental strength with the aid of supplements, it is a journey worth taking. I am in a better spot mentally than I have been since I can remember and it has improved everything.
08-04-2012, 07:43 AM
I am curious about the effects of your T therapy on mental processes. Did you feel improved memory? Improved thinking? I'm asking because I'm about to start my T therapy and am wondering about using Noots during the first few weeks of therapy. Will it be worth the time and effort?
08-04-2012, 09:30 AM
A little background:
My personal experience was like this. As I have mentioned, I have been physically and mentally active my whole life and began studying up on natural supplements about 20 years ago. I have always incorporated them to a minimal extent, always just relying on proper fitness, diet, and rest. About 2-3 years ago I started noticing that I was having brain fog, forgetting things I shouldn't, not articulating thoughts as well, and starting to feel some general anxiety. There were many factors that could have been in play- 1 and 4 year old kids, new house, crazy stressful career, etc. I decided to ramp up some experimentation with herbals to see if I could get things back on track.
I tried pretty much every herbal test booster under the sun and had minimal results, but not what I was expecting. I did see some positive results from Alpha-GPC and stinging nettle. This carried on until last spring. I decided to see my doc about getting some tests done. We ran full tests and didn't see anything that was out of normal other than my test being at 221. We decided that this was likely due to my life and the stress that is always in it. So we had a plan to make note of particularly stressful areas to define and see what we could do to reduce. I added yoga, meditation, visualization, and additional cardio. We tested again, and all normal except test was at 219. At that point, he sent me to some endos to check out my pituatary and verify my thyroid levels. Everything came back normal, but I was in the low end of my free T3 range. If you know anything about thyroid and the fact that just about anyone can be diagnosed with hypo, it is ridiculous. I don't trust a single doctor when it comes to thyroids to be honest. Anyway, a 3 month endo journey and 2 thought I could be hypo and 2 said I was perfectly fine except for low test.
This went on for 4-5 months and I went back to my doctor to discuss. We ran another set of tests as I was still feeling the same. Again, everything normal except test at 211. At this point we started discussion on test replacement. Stress was not going to leave my life and with everything being normal, we thought if I brought my test levels up, we could evaluate if I saw effects and if it was worth pursuing. So that began the TRT journey. This began a 6 month process of different doses and different intervals with testing being done each time. Exhausting to say the least, but I wanted to get it right. I will say that I noticed immediate effects, but they would fade and it was a process to get dialed in.
Finally, we landed at what I am on today- 125mg every 7 days. I have been on this for about 8 months and life has never been better.
Now to your question (finally)-
I would not be able to accurately say how effective my noot stack was unless I was feeling 100% as a baseline. Now that I have been, I can see the true effects of different stacks. I can say without any hesitation that aniracetam/choline(alpha-gpc), rhodiola, and l-theanine is an amazing mental stack. It takes my 100% operational brain to 150%. Everything became sharper, quicker, more collected, and calm. Recall increased about 25%, anxiety gone completely, and the ability to articulate my thoughts increased about 100%. This all added to increased confidence in my mind, so that made me want to be in mentally strenuous/stressful situations. Way different than I was last year! Now I am looking for stressful, mentally and physically draining situations to be in.
Oh, I should add that I regularly check in with test levels around 700-750 (250-850 scale)now, and it has made all the difference in the world.
Long post, but I hope it gives insight into my own experience.
08-04-2012, 11:57 AM
08-04-2012, 12:17 PM
08-05-2012, 03:45 AM
thank you for the detailed post. Very informative and inspiring, also answered many questions!
Looking forward to working with some noots in the near future.
I tried Ani and also Noopept but I think that I need to get my test straightened out to fully appreciate the effects.
08-06-2012, 10:48 AM
Anyone taking any Huperzine-a and/or vinpocetine? Curious what others thing, and dosing. I do 100 mcg of Hup-a and it seems to be one of those things that gives me focus for about 2-3 hours. prob good to take before times extra focus is needed. The Vinp I dont know if I am getting anything. Maybe this one sort of builds up over time.
08-06-2012, 04:45 PM
A term called "dispositions" when used with learning is something like one's attitude toward learning, but much broader in scope. Our disposition toward different learning areas (and it can vary with areas of learning) can make a huge difference in how well knowledge sticks, how practical the knowledge is, and whether or not the knowledge transfers to other areas and adds insight to other knowledge.
There are rote learners and smart learners, and the smart learners have better dispositions toward learning. More later.
08-06-2012, 07:05 PM
There are a multitude of dispositions toward learning. One important one is the ability to stick to something when frustrated. Cognitive scientists have found that several ways of looking at things get in the way of sticking to something until you solve it. Expectations get in the way, as some people think you "either get it or you don't get it." Also some people get a Hollywood mind-set on things such as the power of really smart chess players to think ahead by 20 or even 50 moves, and maybe some people really do have "photographic memories" where they see something once out of the corner of their eye and they have it down for practical use forever (the movie "Limitless" had all of these in spades, and it just took a super noot to do them.) Real learning of hard things is usually incremental and must be accomplished over time and through frustrations. Kids are very prone to the you either get it or you don't fallacy and the ones with early success in school often fall into this trap as they are told early on how "smart" they are and not how hard they worked to reach their level of learning. The very idea that learning hard things is often frustrating and can be usually overcome by an incremental approach is a huge learning advantage. By just knowing to stick to it and using multiple approaches one stands a much better chance of becoming truly intelligent in an area.
There are dozens of ways of looking into dispositions, but I'd like to look into a couple now that forward some of the ideas I've already tried to express on here.
There is a disposition to think "broadly and adventurously," that's often the territory of creatives, and visionary types. Advertising people, artists of all types, and anyone who is not quite sure where the problem even is to solve or sometimes whether there even is a problem.
Then there is the disposition to sound thinking that reaches conclusions based on logic, evidence, and etc. This is often the territory of set problems where you already know you need practical solutions to known areas, but these problems can be very complex and hard to solve. Clarity and soundness are fundamental here.
These two dispositions are not opposites and can share some attitudes or other dispositions, yet they are different realms at the same time.
So how does one develop an attitude to think broadly and adventurously when needed, or soundly and clearly when called for with direct problems, and what exactly goes into creating those and other positive dispositions? And how does playfulness and humor fit in? Anyone? Anyone??? Let's just skip school and go see a parade. Ferris.
08-06-2012, 07:19 PM
Ninety percent of the time "Experiential" life knowledge works just fine, and going to the parade and singing on a float is much better than going to school or strategically thinking about learning. But then there's the other 10%.
There is interesting stuff on strategic learning and when and how it can work, but it's too far off topic for here, and too sprawling. A great deal of strategic learning only applies after you've already learned much in a specific area through experience and study. I did notice the "experts" in these areas seldom mention the roles of playfulness and humor in learning -- I think they are very important. One book I read did talk about the importance of story telling as the passing of intelligence in group, corporate, and company settings, and I agree with that very much.
So I intend to get very specific about my learning now and will occasionally comment on how much I think noots help.
08-08-2012, 04:49 PM
got my A-tam, Sulbutiamine and rhodiola in. I took 1 pill, 750mg of the Atam with my lunch. Looks like I need fats for this and Sulb. I am going to run the Atam with my current stack for a week before I toss in Sulb and Rhodiola unless anyone thinks I should add one of them asap? I want to see how atam treats me.
Maybe placebo but I think I am feeling the a-tam already. I feel pretty focused and got some things done. I read some people say it takes some days to build up but others say kicks in pretty fast but only lasts a few hours. Im not sure here.
got my new scale in accurate to .01 i believe it is so can weigh much better.
So I was taking:
~2 g p-tam: 1/2 in morning fasted 1/2 like 30-60 mins before lunch.
~750mg Chol citrate in morning fasted. I take this and the above with my preWO drink and Ive been in such a zone at the gym. lol
15 mg vipo broken up into 2-3 times per day with meals.
100 mcg of hup-a - from my reading I shouldnt do this all time so gonna do something like 5 days on, 2 off.
and today added in
i do also take 3 g of fish oil, and im getting over 2k epa/dha, a good multi, extra C and doing 10k iu (think d is measued in IUs) of vit d per day and other 2 days I take 1k iu.
lol hope i spelt, abbreviated those right.
08-09-2012, 12:12 PM
08-09-2012, 12:47 PM
08-09-2012, 01:02 PM
on the alcar note, i been taking ALA and after its done id like to try alcar. seems to get a good amount of feedback.
i also have some L-Carnitine-L-tartrate i got from a black friday sale last year.
08-09-2012, 03:03 PM
I have a hit or miss relationship with ALCAR. I loved it at first, but then it just started to get me a little agitated. I've tried playing around with the dosages, but in the end, I just decided that I didn't need it. Once I stopped taking it, I honestly didn't miss it a bit.
That being said- there are a lot of people that swear by it (I thought I was going to be one of them). Good luck with it.
08-10-2012, 10:27 AM
Ordered some stuff. Theanine - going to try adding to my sleep stack. my mind wanders bad and sometimes have hard time sleeping. tyrosine - swear by this stuff as part of my preWO. Good clean energy. Ordered some alcar and some more ala. seems the 2 may work well together. Jeesh I need a spreadsheet soon to monitor all this.
Ive taken 750 mg A-tam last 2 days. today going to 1.5g in 2 doses. i took 1 dose with my 1.25 Ptam and 750mg Choline. i did take a gram of fish oil with the a-tam. Cant say i noticed anything extra with it before working out. I am taking another g of Ptam 30 mins before lunch and will take the other 750mg with lunch. I will monitor all next week 2 before I add to stack.
I do fasting now and normally eat around 12-7 pm but i dont follow the rules 100%. I will have a preWO, some bcaa intra, post bcaa shake. depending how u count BCAAs im going over "the rule" of 50 cals every couple hours. Ill then use a splash of milk in coffee and eat full meal at lunch. Fasting treats me well.
I bring this up cause I am thinking of adding some coconut oil in the morning with the A-tam. I could also use the fats and reading good stuff on this oil.
08-10-2012, 12:27 PM
I'll do some further checking on this, but if BCAAs promote insulin release, then it would be better to just add extra BCAAs to your meals later.
You've got me thinking about using intermittent fasting soon. On checking, it seems that BCAAs gives a mild insulin spike, and Leucine gives almost no insulin spike at all. I think that weight loss would not be compromised very much by using BCAAs, yet Leucine would be the way to go if you are doing it for health purposes of getting your Leptin and other hormones such as thyroid normalized. That's what I've decided to do for me when I get around to doing this fasting. I will use Leucine to "cheat" during fasting periods.
Coconut oil and maybe some fish oil in the morning with your Atam would work too. Coconut oil is very positive and helps to keep your hormones in great order. I'm trying some Mucuna for it's L-DOPA effects pre-wokout, but just one cap. It acts pretty much like tyrosine except stronger. I'm also trying to up my magnesium levels quite a bit as that's important. I also sometimes use ALCA or ALCAR with the Arginate in my pre-workout. I got some on sale though months ago. ALCA is pricey when not at least 30% off. Swanson's had a BOGO on it a long time ago, and it has not gone on sale since.
08-12-2012, 09:58 AM
I do sometimes take extra Leucine in my BCAA drink (recovery pro atm)
I do take some extra magnesium and zinc from reading how important the 2 can be. Not a ton but maybe like 200mg of mag on top of what I get in my multi and diet.
Yes, IF, I do that but mainly for convienence than the science behind it right now. I like when I do sit down to eat I can eat larger meals. I will say that taking the noots during the fasted period I def feel them more then when I do eat.
08-15-2012, 08:43 AM
What about stacking two substances - specifically Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine?
Would you have to reduce the dosages for each? Would you want to space out the dosages of each so that you don't take them simultaneously?
08-15-2012, 01:15 PM
im enjoying my stack and still havent added the Sulb and Rhod to it. Gonna wait bit longer. I added focus XT alternating between .5 and 1 scoop (usually at different times of my racetams) and its working well.
I am messing with a bunch of stuff atm just trying to build a core stack and then addons on days i need it, like classes and study sessions.
08-15-2012, 02:53 PM
I think that is wise with anything. Adding too many variables makes it difficult to decipher what is working and if there is a negative, too hard to determine what to remove.
08-23-2012, 09:43 AM
Not sure if its my noots stack but I seem to get very tired later afternoons, early evenings. I had to switch my workouts to after work and finding I am low on steam. Wondering if the racetams can do this since I take 1 dose at 630am and 2nd about 1130am? Come 5pmish i am pretty worn out. Think I may push the 2nd dose out to preWO with some of my extras. So 630am and 430pm. This will be better for back to school too but I think i may push that 2nd dose to about hour before class.
08-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Any feedback from the Stablon user in here yet?
I just finished a 2nd bottle of AndroDrive. I have to be honest and say it did nothing very noticeable for me at any dose. The first time I tried it, I was also taking AndroHard, a DHT prohormone. This time I tried it on it's own and honestly felt nadda.
08-23-2012, 11:43 AM
08-23-2012, 12:26 PM
Test could be the best Noot out there.
I started a few days ago and Wow.. memory is much improved, thinking is much clearer, coordination is better (I fly RC helicopters and noticed much better confidence with control when flying yesterday).
Another week or so and I'm going to try some Noots.
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