Mind Steriods or Noots

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  1. I guess I,m with Bioman, I startred Ani and CDP Choline on Monday of this week. I,m taking 750 Ani and 500 Choline upon waking and again before lunch on empty stomach. I noticed from the first dose a difference in my attention and motivation. I have been getting things done instead of putting it off til I felt like it. I have tried ALCAR recently and it just gave me a all day headache and a weird out of it feeling, even with Choline. I tried adding ALCAR on Wed. with these other two and had pretty much the same feeling. No ALCAR yesterday or today and I,m feeling great and clear headed. The last two days I have cut back on my Klonipin dosage and noticed no feeling of anxiety, so far so good. This is just another great reason to belong to this board.....


  2. Quote Originally Posted by RipdnTxs View Post
    I guess I,m with Bioman, I startred Ani and CDP Choline on Monday of this week. I,m taking 750 Ani and 500 Choline upon waking and again before lunch on empty stomach. I noticed from the first dose a difference in my attention and motivation. I have been getting things done instead of putting it off til I felt like it. I have tried ALCAR recently and it just gave me a all day headache and a weird out of it feeling, even with Choline. I tried adding ALCAR on Wed. with these other two and had pretty much the same feeling. No ALCAR yesterday or today and I,m feeling great and clear headed. The last two days I have cut back on my Klonipin dosage and noticed no feeling of anxiety, so far so good. This is just another great reason to belong to this board.....
    Ani is usually stronger with food or at least a snack.
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  3. Thanks Tuberman, I will give that a shot and see if I feel any different effects...

  4. I finally received my Stablon. It took over 4 weeks from original order time. The cost was $202 for 6 x 60 caps, so it is pricey. I'm very curious about Stablon as a noot, and wanted to get at least a 60 day supply for a real world test. I'll stop the aniracetam today and switch to Stablon on Thursday.

    Aniracetam has worked well for me and I'll buy a 3 month supply next time I get it. I'm down to about 3 days worth out of the original 60 day supply. I did not get around to give ani a long term test using stuff like forskolin and artichoke extract as potentiators.

  5. think i may be feeling a bit from my Piracetam and Choline citrate. taking about 2g of pira and 1g of cho. i am taking the first gram of each together in the am fasted and then before lunch taking just a g of pira. i may be getting better ability to stay focused with less mind fog. heard it takes about a week and gets better with more time so will keep this as a base for now. i would like to test run some Aniracetam too and see if it would be good just on school days.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Hey guys. I just took some Demiurge from Antaeus labs. It is Phenylpiracetam, 50 mg per cap. Also I took 6 caps of Cabergolean today which has some huperzine and dmae in it. First time for me taking the Demiurge, but I have been taking Cabergolean for about 6-8 months now 5 days on 2 days off. This Demiurge stuff is really strong. I feel a little anxious but also have insane focus. Its almost like tunnel vision focus for anything I look at. I turn my head and look at something and it feels like I'm "zooming in". This stuff seems to give me a bit of energy too. I'm just eating my first meal now. Damn, this stuff is powerful!. Think maybe I'll go for a walk, but I can't decide what to do. I could just keep typing, that would be cool too. You guys should really try this stuff.
    So did you take 2 caps of Demiurge or 100 mg? Or more? People seem to be comparing it to Craze, so PEA with piracetam or more complex than that?

  7. Sounds interesting. Piracetam didn't do jack for me, so I am curious how phenylpiracetam is different. Mostly what I have read is people complaining about it being too strong of a stimulant, and that is one thing I would not like. If I get to stimulated, it actually fogs up my thinking because I am uncomfortable.

  8. I took the Stablon yesterday at 1 x 12.5 mg for 3 times during the day, and had no response either good or bad. I'm usually an excellent responder to most things, so I took it easy at the beginning. Today I'll up to 2 -2-1 and keep it there for several days. A lot of stuff does take several days or more to kick in, and I'll stay with it for at least 2-3 weeks.

  9. Gaia Thyroid support twice a day (LOVE ashwaganda). This replaced rhodiola for me as I found the ashwagandha to be superior to the rhodiola for energy and stress relief.
    Just getting back to the forum after a few weeks traveling.
    In all the info I read I did not find anything about needing Thyroid support.
    It could explain my situation.
    I was taking Noopept 30 to 40mg per day along with Choline source and my regular multi vitamin and a few other supps. Before I left for Africa I started feeling like my blood pressure was very high. It actually felt like my shirt was too tight on my neck. When I got to Africa I had the doc check my pressure 112 over 80. Not high but I still had this feeling of pounding in my head, very foggy thinking and a feeling like something was tight around my neck. I think that may have been my thyroid.
    Even now I feel a slight tightness in my neck right under my jaw.

    Any idea what that might have been??

  10. Quote Originally Posted by RedRaptor View Post
    Just getting back to the forum after a few weeks traveling.
    In all the info I read I did not find anything about needing Thyroid support.
    It could explain my situation.
    I was taking Noopept 30 to 40mg per day along with Choline source and my regular multi vitamin and a few other supps. Before I left for Africa I started feeling like my blood pressure was very high. It actually felt like my shirt was too tight on my neck. When I got to Africa I had the doc check my pressure 112 over 80. Not high but I still had this feeling of pounding in my head, very foggy thinking and a feeling like something was tight around my neck. I think that may have been my thyroid.
    Even now I feel a slight tightness in my neck right under my jaw.

    Any idea what that might have been??
    Red,
    I did not experiment with noopept long -- about 6 days. Lots of people have low thyroid and take various supplements to increase their T3 levels.

    All,

    Do not take forskolin and artichoke extract with Stablon -- not good. I only took one Stablon, one artichoke cap, and a low dose of forskolin, but they do not combine well. I had a headache and felt lightheaded over 4 hours.

  11. This stuff has made a world of difference in my energy levels and general mood throughout the day. I gave a bottle to my mom and she can't get over the energy she has now. She has been on Synthoid for about 20 years and it never did anything for her, in her opinion, but the doctors keep prescribing it based on her free T3 and TSH. My mom will be 70 next year and walks 4 miles a day, but now has been doing 6 just by adding this, and has joined a gym.

  12. That is what piracetam does to me. I hate the feeling because I am just groggy and could go to sleep at anytime. It literally is like a sleeping pill for me. I bought a 2 month supply and 2 weeks in threw the bottles away.

  13. I imagine it couldn't hurt to try, but it did nothing for me. I added Rhodiola, caffeine, alcar, and finally allergy tablets. All that would happen is I would get a physical energy and my brain would be dead. But, it seems to work for some other people.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj
    This stuff has made a world of difference in my energy levels and general mood throughout the day. I gave a bottle to my mom and she can't get over the energy she has now. She has been on Synthoid for about 20 years and it never did anything for her, in her opinion, but the doctors keep prescribing it based on her free T3 and TSH. My mom will be 70 next year and walks 4 miles a day, but now has been doing 6 just by adding this, and has joined a gym.
    what stuff are you talking about here

  15. Some worthwhile things I've run across while trying to increase brain function and/or learning abilities:

    There's the old stereotype of left brain vs right brain or analytical vs creative abilities being conflicting. That seems to be an oversimplification of something with a bit of truth to it.

    I've seen racetams attacked because they are "not efficient." Racetams recruit more neurons to solve problems over larger areas of the brain than when you don't use them. This is true, they are not efficient, but then what do they do and allow? Racetams like aniracetam do tend to recruit more neurons over much larger areas of the brain for problem solving and other things. This seems to move the brain from a beta state to an alpha state. Beta = faster processing, more intense, more efficient and smaller sections of neurons involved. Alpha = Slower processing, more relaxed, less efficient (but more SEARCHING). The relaxed alpha state has a peripheral observation going on that is searching larger areas and REFLECTING on what areas it is looking at at the same time. This all takes a more relaxed state as with alpha awareness, one is learning about learning even while one is picking up the answer to the direct problem. This is backed up by too much brain research to post on here, as much of it I found in books. The alpha state can sometimes lead to a Gamma wave state where the brain's aSTG area fires off a intense set of waves that covers an extremely wide area of the brain. This Gamma wave burst is the Aha! moment of seeing a new insight for the person that experiences it. This has been studied using insight puzzles that ordinarily can not be solved by direct sequential logic, and the people solving them hooked up to MRIs or PET scans.

    You cannot usually go from the efficient Beta Wave problem solving directly to the Gamma Wave Aha! moment, and that is why people may have to go for a relaxing walk or sleep on a problem sometimes. The Alpha Wave relaxed state of searching seems to always precede the Gamma Wave insight moments. Yet you don't really need insight to solve problems that can be solved by a sequential or logical process alone. That being said, many modern problems do take insight and even vision to resolve.

    Racetams do not make you more efficient or help you process faster, but they do help take you to the next level or levels of strategic and reflective thinking.

  16. On a counter note:

    On another forum (Longecity, of course) people are always looking into how to create a more effective stack. And many of those people experiment with ADD and narcolepsy drugs and medications. They want something to give them the efficient focus, brain energy and concentration without the negative sides of the amphetamine type meds or amphetamines themselves. Most strong attention drive comes through the dopamine neurons and receptors in the brain, which is the direct reward circuits in the brain. They have been experimenting with health type supplements that increase cAMP and keep it from being depleted quickly in the brain. Forskolin strongly increases cAMP, and different PDE4 inhibitors that keep cAMP from being depleted. The PDE4 inhibitors include artichoke extract, quercetin, perhaps grapefruit juice, and several others. BE CAREFUL WITH THESE IN COMBINATION. They are used as health supps but in combination are quite powerful for the brain. I produced negative results with my experiment using 1 Stablon, 1 artichoke cap, and 20 mg of forskolin actives. These were fairly low doses. I've also read that aniracetam plus these give negative results. It might be interesting to try some forskolin along with AndroDrive, but I'd keep the amount of forskolin actives low at first, and would depend on the grapefruit juice for any PDE4 inhibitor effects.

    All this stuff is involved in the direct systematic logic, analytical, dopamine, beta wave side of learning.

    What they are searching for is a sustainable focus stack for analytical problem solving, attention, focus, and sharp memory increases (without using memory tricks).

    This stack should not burn the user out over time. A couple of top brain scientist have been searching this area for it's LTP (long term potentiation of memory) type effects, but they are using drugs of course. The scientists have gotten incredible results searching these directions for LTP on small life forms. You might say this is one of the most promising searches for something like a science fiction like drug to increase cognition in the classic sense. LTP is where short term memory becomes long term learning. This is an cutting edge area, so pioneer caution is necessary.

    This is all about increasing DLPFC activation, or strong working-memory. Yet DLPFC activation gets in the way of creativity as it inhibits creativity. There is a tradeoff between creativity and efficient problem solving and intense attention in the Beta Wave section. People that practice improv humor actually practice shutting down the DLPFC, so they can be more spontaneous.

    ------------------------

    The people on Longecity don't seem to be aware of the conflict between the classical dopamine,logical, analytical side of things and the more visionary, and creative side of things. More likely they don't care and see efficient problem solving as the "real" cognition. But what if one is greedy and wants both -- not possible???

    Obviously any weight trainer knows the answer to this one. You cycle stacks, and you work on your working memory analytic side sometimes, and your broad scope, insight, and visionary side other times, and use different cognition stacks for each. I would like to try AndroDrive along with forskolin and maybe something like resveratrol (as resveratrol is a very mild PDE4 inhibitor) with coffee as an add-in. This will be my analytical focus stack.

    I like aniracetam with something like ashwaganda and some other relaxing noots as my creative stack so far.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    On a counter note:

    On another forum (Longecity, of course) people are always looking into how to create a more effective stack. And many of those people experiment with ADD and narcolepsy drugs and medications. They want something to give them the efficient focus, brain energy and concentration without the negative sides of the amphetamine type meds or amphetamines themselves. Most strong attention drive comes through the dopamine neurons and receptors in the brain, which is the direct reward circuits in the brain. They have been experimenting with health type supplements that increase cAMP and keep it from being depleted quickly in the brain. Forskolin strongly increases cAMP, and different PDE4 inhibitors that keep cAMP from being depleted. The PDE4 inhibitors include artichoke extract, quercetin, perhaps grapefruit juice, and several others. BE CAREFUL WITH THESE IN COMBINATION. They are used as health supps but in combination are quite powerful for the brain. I produced negative results with my experiment using 1 Stablon, 1 artichoke cap, and 20 mg of forskolin actives. These were fairly low doses. I've also read that aniracetam plus these give negative results. It might be interesting to try some forskolin along with AndroDrive, but I'd keep the amount of forskolin actives low at first, and would depend on the grapefruit juice for any PDE4 inhibitor effects.

    All this stuff is involved in the direct systematic logic, analytical, dopamine, beta wave side of learning.

    What they are searching for is a sustainable focus stack for analytical problem solving, attention, focus, and sharp memory increases (without using memory tricks).

    This stack should not burn the user out over time. A couple of top brain scientist have been searching this area for it's LTP (long term potentiation of memory) type effects, but they are using drugs of course. The scientists have gotten incredible results searching these directions for LTP on small life forms. You might say this is one of the most promising searches for something like a science fiction like drug to increase cognition in the classic sense. LTP is where short term memory becomes long term learning. This is an cutting edge area, so pioneer caution is necessary.

    This is all about increasing DLPFC activation, or strong working-memory. Yet DLPFC activation gets in the way of creativity as it inhibits creativity. There is a tradeoff between creativity and efficient problem solving and intense attention in the Beta Wave section. People that practice improv humor actually practice shutting down the DLPFC, so they can be more spontaneous.

    ------------------------

    The people on Longecity don't seem to be aware of the conflict between the classical dopamine,logical, analytical side of things and the more visionary, and creative side of things. More likely they don't care and see efficient problem solving as the "real" cognition. But what if one is greedy and wants both -- not possible???

    Obviously any weight trainer knows the answer to this one. You cycle stacks, and you work on your working memory analytic side sometimes, and your broad scope, insight, and visionary side other times, and use different cognition stacks for each. I would like to try AndroDrive along with forskolin and maybe something like resveratrol (as resveratrol is a very mild PDE4 inhibitor) with coffee as an add-in. This will be my analytical focus stack.

    I like aniracetam with something like ashwaganda and some other relaxing noots as my creative stack so far.
    The higher cAMP levels signals more CREB protein in the hippocampus, and this is what makes short-term memory into long-term memory. Eric Kandel and Tim Tully are the two brain scientist working on this area, and they are both top brain scientists. Kandel is a legend.

  18. kisaj,

    I think I'm getting close to what suits me best for noots:

    About 75% of the time I'll go with an aniracetam stack that will include ashwagandha and Magnesium L-Threonate as this is a very relaxing mellowing stack that still motivates me to learn things and does not make me sleepy. My creative stack. I tried this stack for just 3 days and it made me feel quite good -- very social too.

    The other times I may go with either an AD plus forskolin stack or a PDE4 -inhibitor + forskolin stack for picking up analytical info, I'll test more on this end.

  19. i am still taking about 2g (1gx2 per day) of Piracetam and 750mg (in am with one dose of pira) of someCholine Citrate i had. I added some Vinpocetine (taking a total of 10-15 mg a day) and Huperzine (100mcg, i do get about 50mcg in a preWO i take). I came across some Gaspari spirodex i take a bit of, maybe a tab a day but i like to break them into 2 pcs and take 1/2-1 a day. spirodex i am doing now and then to test it. so this is without spirodex:

    I def feel something going on with improved focus. I can focus better and can get problems solved much easier. Just overall feel better, not very stressed if i maintain the stack.

    i am going to pick up someAniracetam to try to stack with the above. TheAniracetam i think i would use only right before classes or study sessions. seems it doesnt last for 2 long in some.

    I take about 3g of high quality fish oil a day, a good multi, extra C and D and general health supps.

    I am looking for a stack to help me with school in the fall. I have serious issues with focusing and some anxiety in groups to the point i get quiet. My mind wanders a lot.

    I still need a good scale to meausre some of the bulk powders out.

    Edit to add:
    I am looking to add some focus XT to my stack. Once again, before classes and study sessions, 1/2-a full scoop. i would removed or reduce the Hup a and Vinp I am now taking and stop my Choline.
    Last edited by tjwoody; 08-01-2012 at 01:33 PM. Reason: added focus xt

  20. tj,

    MY mailbox was full I had to empty it

  21. Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    tj,

    MY mailbox was full I had to empty it
    thx bro ill get back to u.

    i think im just looking for input/thoughts on my stack really. Want to add that aniracetam for a few days per week, school, studying. thinking about 750 mg added to my existing.

  22. I'd do 750 twice a day w/ a choline source and possibly adding some rhodiola.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I'd do 750 twice a day w/ a choline source and possibly adding some rhodiola.
    yeah that looks like the rec dose of A-tam, 1.5g a day broken up. I am reading about rhodiloa now, seems decent. I will try adding it later. Working on 1 thing at a time see how it hits me.

    Heres my current stack from above:
    "i am still taking about 2g (1gx2 per day) of Piracetam and 750mg (in am with one dose of pira) of some Choline Citrate i had. I added some Vinpocetine (taking a total of 10-15 mg a day) and Huperzine (100mcg, i do get about 50mcg in a preWO i take). I came across some Gaspari spirodex i take a bit of, maybe a tab a day but i like to break them into 2 pcs and take 1/2-1 a day. spirodex i am doing now and then to test it"

    I noticed with 1/2 tab of spirodex in the mix i feel really really good. Going to stop the spiro for a few days and replace it with 100 mg of caff and see how I do.

    I hope addin a-tam in mix the ~750g of my choline Cit. im taking is enough. I only take the Cho in the am with the P-tam dose of 1 gram and 1 gram of the P-tam around 30 mins before lunch. I will try to bump the eggs up too.


    lil update:
    felt really good with my stack during work today. Stayed focused, multi tasked well.

  24. In about a week I will start back on an Ani stack again, and experiment some with extra ingredients. But I already have a decent feel what will probably work well with the ani, shwagandha and Magnesium L-Threonate. I'll also add back in the Lion's Mane, and test out some Acetyl L-Carnitine Arginate. I picked up some ALCA several months ago at Swanson's for a big discount sale at that time, and it comes at 900 mg per cap there, which is an effective dose at even one cap.

    The Stablon I tested for 5 more days after using it with the cAMP stuff (which was a mistake as it created a negative stimulant effect combining them in me). The other 5 days came after waiting a couple of days to clear the negative effects. I took 5 Stablon per day for 5 days in a row, and although I didn't feel overstimed, and I did feel fairly sharp, I also felt mildly depressed while using this antidepressant. I just did not like it's 'feel' and I figured that's just how I respond to it. I read many, many good responses to Stablon, it seems I'm the odd man out on this one.

    I've read more on the use of forsoklin with PDE4-inhibitors. Most keep the forskolin actives pretty low or 4-6 mg of actives when they combine it with even semi-strong PDE4-inhibitors, so my 20 mg was quite high by their standards. PDE4 ordinarily keeps cAMP low in the brain, but if you inhibit this PDE4 than that allows the cAMP to become much larger than it ordinarily is, and a side effect is also a stim type effect on the dopamine neurons. If you keep this under control, there is almost no noticeable stimulant effect, yet LTP will increase dramatically. This should have amazing effects on increased learning abilities for things like college studies. I will go back and play with this area until I get it right.

  25. Gonna pick up A-tam, some Sulbutiamine and gonna try 100g of rhodiola. I like the reading/reviews on rhodiola. Trying to go with mostly powders to save $. I figure I can use some small tupper wares I have and measure/weigh out a couple Noots stack doses each day. Seems need to take most this stuff, 2-3 times per day so once at Bfast then will just do remaining doses at lunch and/or dinner.

    Going to play with these lil stacks but will keep a core stack and do some short cycles off stuff now and then. During school breaks I will prob come off everything for a good week and try getting away with most things 5-6 days per week.

    Thx for help esp u tuberman, answering my PMs and such.
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