Mind Steriods or Noots
- 07-17-2012, 10:46 PM
- 07-18-2012, 04:39 PM
I tried about 20 mg of forskolin with some Now Mucuna with 120 mg of L-DOPA before work last night and that with aniracetam had a very potent effect. I have some of the artichoke extract on the way. The forskolin is 20% actives so it takes 100 mg to make 20 mg effective dose.
Keeping thyroid at good levels is one of the keys to mental sharpness BTW.
- 07-19-2012, 11:18 PM
On my 5th day of Ani + CDP Choline. Really liking it so far. Seems to be clearing out some of the cobwebs and reducing my social anxiety a lot. Not a stellar increase in mental energy, but more like most mental processes have been lubricated and just work better. I stunned a colleague today by identifying a rare bird from just a portion of a desiccated carcass (I'm a biologist). That particular bird species should not be found anywhere near the habitat we work in, so it was in no way a familiarity type recall.
Not much of an energy booster like Piracetam is for me, but its also much more stable and predictable so far. Piracetam I have largely given up on as it makes my moods unpredictable. Typically, the first few days on it are fine, then I vacillate between some sort of strange manic and depressive state..even with adjusting dose and using all manner of choline support. My senses are more vivid, words flow better, but weird moods and a mild headache ruin it for me as does terrible insomnia. No sleep supp we commonly use can shut my brain off on Piracetam and it turns me into a zombie by day 10.
Ani, is quite the opposite. I take 700 mg in the morning with 500 mg CDP and there is only very mild "pep" but a nice slow ramp up in cognitive "fluidity" I'll call it for lack of a better description. I generally take my second dose late in the day and have had no sleep issues other than craving more sleep than I am getting (6-7 hours for this job). I work in the Mohave desert so the heat takes a lot out of my 40 year old carcass. Mood-wise, Ani has been a real treat. Less social anxiety, better positive outlook, better communication and overall recollection of my daily tasks (which shift constantly) and better mental organization . Today, those effects seemed to kick it up a small notch and I am curious to see where this ride will take me.
I have both Pramiracetam and Noopept waiting for me at home and I will try to be disciplined with them and not try everything at once.
I agree with the poster who sang the praises of Acetyl-L-Carnitine-Arginate. This stuff is very potent, far outstripping regular ALCAR in most ways. Big leaps in mental energy, physical energy, memory, mood, but unfortunately every time I try it I get the same sort of horrible insomnia that Piracetam gives me. Its also very expensive.
Ashwaghanda...I also like it better than Rhodiola. My moods on Rhodi can be GREAT, or they can crash into super pissy anger mode with bouts of insomnia. Not sure why, but I have experimented with Rhodi for years and now shy away from it. Ashwaghanda is far more predictable. Relieves anxiety nicely and primes me for a good night of sleep.
07-20-2012, 03:49 AM
I think I'm going to break open my bottle of ashwaganda and try it with ani and forskolin, and maybe add the artichoke later. So far aniracetam is a major favorite, although I do like AndroDrive for different purposes. I've gone through over 6 weeks of ani now.
I use Rhodiola during the cold months -- mid December through February or mid March.
I'm doing a ton of reading. Learning about learning, especially using the internet. It includes understanding all the search engines and how best to look things up with them, and the cool new tools that are available now (various e-book sites, live blogs by people involved in interesting things like onsite digs, etc.). An author named David Perkins has caught my attention as he has a excellent book out on "breakthrough thinking.' he also has books on learning itself, called "Making Learning Whole," and a book on discussions and how to keep them on track and away from territorial ego involvement.
There is no absolute shortcut for having broad interest ranges to producing good ideas, but the internet allows for a quicker access to a broad range of subjects. The brain scientist books frequently restate, "attention must be paid," to get powerful changes in the brain or mind. What's incredible is that William James in his classic book on Psychology said this about the power of attention several times, and seemed to be underlining it's importance in his book. James said this over a century ago. Noots strengthen the ability to focus and concentrate attention in several ways.
One of the things I'm working on is the transfer of learning, and not just how "real world" learning is, but transferring learning from one discipline to another. Example: How can my visual arts learning enhance my other learning skills. If I'm trying to mentor a ADD child often they cannot concentrate well on abstractions, but they find it easier to get involved in creative work because one can see the whole project right there in front of them. It's also more fun than abstractions. Yet you can use art to teach good learning skills to a kid.
07-20-2012, 01:42 PM
may have been asked, and i am very new to noots. i feel i have something going on and cant focus, multi task, etc. trying to self medicate it if i can. ordered some things. what type of scales can you gents suggest for weighing such small mgs?
i only taking some Piracetam and Choline citrate i already had. one day i noticed everything seemed to be brighter. i am taking 2g of p and i did take 1 g of cho first day, got a minor headache so going to do 1g of that now too. read this takes like a good week to kick in so maybe placebo.
i ordered some Huperzine A, SNS focus xt to try and some Vinpocetine. read good things and cheap enough.
this all started because i been really frustrated with how bad my memory and just trying to get work done has been. i recently signed up for school so thought i should look into things to help now. i had a sample bottle of spirodex took 1 in the morning and was caught up in my work all morning. amazing.
looking to build a lil stack to help me at work and then maybe have a bit more of an involved stack for school/studying. for now i want to run the 2 things i have for a couple weeks and see how it goes.
open to suggestions on the Piracetam and Choline citrate. My scale doesnt measure under 1g very well so like i said im doing 2g of Piracetam and 1g of Choline citrate for now.
07-20-2012, 03:02 PM
I guess I,m with Bioman, I startred Ani and CDP Choline on Monday of this week. I,m taking 750 Ani and 500 Choline upon waking and again before lunch on empty stomach. I noticed from the first dose a difference in my attention and motivation. I have been getting things done instead of putting it off til I felt like it. I have tried ALCAR recently and it just gave me a all day headache and a weird out of it feeling, even with Choline. I tried adding ALCAR on Wed. with these other two and had pretty much the same feeling. No ALCAR yesterday or today and I,m feeling great and clear headed. The last two days I have cut back on my Klonipin dosage and noticed no feeling of anxiety, so far so good. This is just another great reason to belong to this board.....
07-20-2012, 08:42 PM
07-21-2012, 04:29 PM
07-24-2012, 03:36 PM
I finally received my Stablon. It took over 4 weeks from original order time. The cost was $202 for 6 x 60 caps, so it is pricey. I'm very curious about Stablon as a noot, and wanted to get at least a 60 day supply for a real world test. I'll stop the aniracetam today and switch to Stablon on Thursday.
Aniracetam has worked well for me and I'll buy a 3 month supply next time I get it. I'm down to about 3 days worth out of the original 60 day supply. I did not get around to give ani a long term test using stuff like forskolin and artichoke extract as potentiators.
07-24-2012, 05:12 PM
think i may be feeling a bit from my Piracetam and Choline citrate. taking about 2g of pira and 1g of cho. i am taking the first gram of each together in the am fasted and then before lunch taking just a g of pira. i may be getting better ability to stay focused with less mind fog. heard it takes about a week and gets better with more time so will keep this as a base for now. i would like to test run some Aniracetam too and see if it would be good just on school days.
07-26-2012, 12:55 PM
07-26-2012, 01:32 PM
Sounds interesting. Piracetam didn't do jack for me, so I am curious how phenylpiracetam is different. Mostly what I have read is people complaining about it being too strong of a stimulant, and that is one thing I would not like. If I get to stimulated, it actually fogs up my thinking because I am uncomfortable.
07-27-2012, 08:03 AM
I took the Stablon yesterday at 1 x 12.5 mg for 3 times during the day, and had no response either good or bad. I'm usually an excellent responder to most things, so I took it easy at the beginning. Today I'll up to 2 -2-1 and keep it there for several days. A lot of stuff does take several days or more to kick in, and I'll stay with it for at least 2-3 weeks.
07-28-2012, 06:10 AM
Just getting back to the forum after a few weeks traveling.Gaia Thyroid support twice a day (LOVE ashwaganda). This replaced rhodiola for me as I found the ashwagandha to be superior to the rhodiola for energy and stress relief.
In all the info I read I did not find anything about needing Thyroid support.
It could explain my situation.
I was taking Noopept 30 to 40mg per day along with Choline source and my regular multi vitamin and a few other supps. Before I left for Africa I started feeling like my blood pressure was very high. It actually felt like my shirt was too tight on my neck. When I got to Africa I had the doc check my pressure 112 over 80. Not high but I still had this feeling of pounding in my head, very foggy thinking and a feeling like something was tight around my neck. I think that may have been my thyroid.
Even now I feel a slight tightness in my neck right under my jaw.
Any idea what that might have been??
07-28-2012, 06:22 AM
I did not experiment with noopept long -- about 6 days. Lots of people have low thyroid and take various supplements to increase their T3 levels.
Do not take forskolin and artichoke extract with Stablon -- not good. I only took one Stablon, one artichoke cap, and a low dose of forskolin, but they do not combine well. I had a headache and felt lightheaded over 4 hours.
07-28-2012, 09:01 AM
This stuff has made a world of difference in my energy levels and general mood throughout the day. I gave a bottle to my mom and she can't get over the energy she has now. She has been on Synthoid for about 20 years and it never did anything for her, in her opinion, but the doctors keep prescribing it based on her free T3 and TSH. My mom will be 70 next year and walks 4 miles a day, but now has been doing 6 just by adding this, and has joined a gym.
07-28-2012, 10:50 AM
That is what piracetam does to me. I hate the feeling because I am just groggy and could go to sleep at anytime. It literally is like a sleeping pill for me. I bought a 2 month supply and 2 weeks in threw the bottles away.
07-28-2012, 11:47 AM
I imagine it couldn't hurt to try, but it did nothing for me. I added Rhodiola, caffeine, alcar, and finally allergy tablets. All that would happen is I would get a physical energy and my brain would be dead. But, it seems to work for some other people.
07-28-2012, 09:23 PM
07-29-2012, 03:34 PM
Some worthwhile things I've run across while trying to increase brain function and/or learning abilities:
There's the old stereotype of left brain vs right brain or analytical vs creative abilities being conflicting. That seems to be an oversimplification of something with a bit of truth to it.
I've seen racetams attacked because they are "not efficient." Racetams recruit more neurons to solve problems over larger areas of the brain than when you don't use them. This is true, they are not efficient, but then what do they do and allow? Racetams like aniracetam do tend to recruit more neurons over much larger areas of the brain for problem solving and other things. This seems to move the brain from a beta state to an alpha state. Beta = faster processing, more intense, more efficient and smaller sections of neurons involved. Alpha = Slower processing, more relaxed, less efficient (but more SEARCHING). The relaxed alpha state has a peripheral observation going on that is searching larger areas and REFLECTING on what areas it is looking at at the same time. This all takes a more relaxed state as with alpha awareness, one is learning about learning even while one is picking up the answer to the direct problem. This is backed up by too much brain research to post on here, as much of it I found in books. The alpha state can sometimes lead to a Gamma wave state where the brain's aSTG area fires off a intense set of waves that covers an extremely wide area of the brain. This Gamma wave burst is the Aha! moment of seeing a new insight for the person that experiences it. This has been studied using insight puzzles that ordinarily can not be solved by direct sequential logic, and the people solving them hooked up to MRIs or PET scans.
You cannot usually go from the efficient Beta Wave problem solving directly to the Gamma Wave Aha! moment, and that is why people may have to go for a relaxing walk or sleep on a problem sometimes. The Alpha Wave relaxed state of searching seems to always precede the Gamma Wave insight moments. Yet you don't really need insight to solve problems that can be solved by a sequential or logical process alone. That being said, many modern problems do take insight and even vision to resolve.
Racetams do not make you more efficient or help you process faster, but they do help take you to the next level or levels of strategic and reflective thinking.
07-29-2012, 06:55 PM
On a counter note:
On another forum (Longecity, of course) people are always looking into how to create a more effective stack. And many of those people experiment with ADD and narcolepsy drugs and medications. They want something to give them the efficient focus, brain energy and concentration without the negative sides of the amphetamine type meds or amphetamines themselves. Most strong attention drive comes through the dopamine neurons and receptors in the brain, which is the direct reward circuits in the brain. They have been experimenting with health type supplements that increase cAMP and keep it from being depleted quickly in the brain. Forskolin strongly increases cAMP, and different PDE4 inhibitors that keep cAMP from being depleted. The PDE4 inhibitors include artichoke extract, quercetin, perhaps grapefruit juice, and several others. BE CAREFUL WITH THESE IN COMBINATION. They are used as health supps but in combination are quite powerful for the brain. I produced negative results with my experiment using 1 Stablon, 1 artichoke cap, and 20 mg of forskolin actives. These were fairly low doses. I've also read that aniracetam plus these give negative results. It might be interesting to try some forskolin along with AndroDrive, but I'd keep the amount of forskolin actives low at first, and would depend on the grapefruit juice for any PDE4 inhibitor effects.
All this stuff is involved in the direct systematic logic, analytical, dopamine, beta wave side of learning.
What they are searching for is a sustainable focus stack for analytical problem solving, attention, focus, and sharp memory increases (without using memory tricks).
This stack should not burn the user out over time. A couple of top brain scientist have been searching this area for it's LTP (long term potentiation of memory) type effects, but they are using drugs of course. The scientists have gotten incredible results searching these directions for LTP on small life forms. You might say this is one of the most promising searches for something like a science fiction like drug to increase cognition in the classic sense. LTP is where short term memory becomes long term learning. This is an cutting edge area, so pioneer caution is necessary.
This is all about increasing DLPFC activation, or strong working-memory. Yet DLPFC activation gets in the way of creativity as it inhibits creativity. There is a tradeoff between creativity and efficient problem solving and intense attention in the Beta Wave section. People that practice improv humor actually practice shutting down the DLPFC, so they can be more spontaneous.
The people on Longecity don't seem to be aware of the conflict between the classical dopamine,logical, analytical side of things and the more visionary, and creative side of things. More likely they don't care and see efficient problem solving as the "real" cognition. But what if one is greedy and wants both -- not possible???
Obviously any weight trainer knows the answer to this one. You cycle stacks, and you work on your working memory analytic side sometimes, and your broad scope, insight, and visionary side other times, and use different cognition stacks for each. I would like to try AndroDrive along with forskolin and maybe something like resveratrol (as resveratrol is a very mild PDE4 inhibitor) with coffee as an add-in. This will be my analytical focus stack.
I like aniracetam with something like ashwaganda and some other relaxing noots as my creative stack so far.
07-30-2012, 03:50 PM
07-31-2012, 04:20 PM
I think I'm getting close to what suits me best for noots:
About 75% of the time I'll go with an aniracetam stack that will include ashwagandha and Magnesium L-Threonate as this is a very relaxing mellowing stack that still motivates me to learn things and does not make me sleepy. My creative stack. I tried this stack for just 3 days and it made me feel quite good -- very social too.
The other times I may go with either an AD plus forskolin stack or a PDE4 -inhibitor + forskolin stack for picking up analytical info, I'll test more on this end.
08-01-2012, 01:32 PM
i am still taking about 2g (1gx2 per day) of Piracetam and 750mg (in am with one dose of pira) of someCholine Citrate i had. I added some Vinpocetine (taking a total of 10-15 mg a day) and Huperzine (100mcg, i do get about 50mcg in a preWO i take). I came across some Gaspari spirodex i take a bit of, maybe a tab a day but i like to break them into 2 pcs and take 1/2-1 a day. spirodex i am doing now and then to test it. so this is without spirodex:
I def feel something going on with improved focus. I can focus better and can get problems solved much easier. Just overall feel better, not very stressed if i maintain the stack.
i am going to pick up someAniracetam to try to stack with the above. TheAniracetam i think i would use only right before classes or study sessions. seems it doesnt last for 2 long in some.
I take about 3g of high quality fish oil a day, a good multi, extra C and D and general health supps.
I am looking for a stack to help me with school in the fall. I have serious issues with focusing and some anxiety in groups to the point i get quiet. My mind wanders a lot.
I still need a good scale to meausre some of the bulk powders out.
Edit to add:
I am looking to add some focus XT to my stack. Once again, before classes and study sessions, 1/2-a full scoop. i would removed or reduce the Hup a and Vinp I am now taking and stop my Choline.
Last edited by tjwoody; 08-01-2012 at 01:33 PM. Reason: added focus xt
08-02-2012, 02:02 PM
08-02-2012, 02:50 PM
08-02-2012, 03:39 PM
08-02-2012, 07:35 PM
Heres my current stack from above:
"i am still taking about 2g (1gx2 per day) of Piracetam and 750mg (in am with one dose of pira) of some Choline Citrate i had. I added some Vinpocetine (taking a total of 10-15 mg a day) and Huperzine (100mcg, i do get about 50mcg in a preWO i take). I came across some Gaspari spirodex i take a bit of, maybe a tab a day but i like to break them into 2 pcs and take 1/2-1 a day. spirodex i am doing now and then to test it"
I noticed with 1/2 tab of spirodex in the mix i feel really really good. Going to stop the spiro for a few days and replace it with 100 mg of caff and see how I do.
I hope addin a-tam in mix the ~750g of my choline Cit. im taking is enough. I only take the Cho in the am with the P-tam dose of 1 gram and 1 gram of the P-tam around 30 mins before lunch. I will try to bump the eggs up too.
felt really good with my stack during work today. Stayed focused, multi tasked well.
08-02-2012, 11:58 PM
In about a week I will start back on an Ani stack again, and experiment some with extra ingredients. But I already have a decent feel what will probably work well with the ani, shwagandha and Magnesium L-Threonate. I'll also add back in the Lion's Mane, and test out some Acetyl L-Carnitine Arginate. I picked up some ALCA several months ago at Swanson's for a big discount sale at that time, and it comes at 900 mg per cap there, which is an effective dose at even one cap.
The Stablon I tested for 5 more days after using it with the cAMP stuff (which was a mistake as it created a negative stimulant effect combining them in me). The other 5 days came after waiting a couple of days to clear the negative effects. I took 5 Stablon per day for 5 days in a row, and although I didn't feel overstimed, and I did feel fairly sharp, I also felt mildly depressed while using this antidepressant. I just did not like it's 'feel' and I figured that's just how I respond to it. I read many, many good responses to Stablon, it seems I'm the odd man out on this one.
I've read more on the use of forsoklin with PDE4-inhibitors. Most keep the forskolin actives pretty low or 4-6 mg of actives when they combine it with even semi-strong PDE4-inhibitors, so my 20 mg was quite high by their standards. PDE4 ordinarily keeps cAMP low in the brain, but if you inhibit this PDE4 than that allows the cAMP to become much larger than it ordinarily is, and a side effect is also a stim type effect on the dopamine neurons. If you keep this under control, there is almost no noticeable stimulant effect, yet LTP will increase dramatically. This should have amazing effects on increased learning abilities for things like college studies. I will go back and play with this area until I get it right.
08-03-2012, 09:20 AM
Gonna pick up A-tam, some Sulbutiamine and gonna try 100g of rhodiola. I like the reading/reviews on rhodiola. Trying to go with mostly powders to save $. I figure I can use some small tupper wares I have and measure/weigh out a couple Noots stack doses each day. Seems need to take most this stuff, 2-3 times per day so once at Bfast then will just do remaining doses at lunch and/or dinner.
Going to play with these lil stacks but will keep a core stack and do some short cycles off stuff now and then. During school breaks I will prob come off everything for a good week and try getting away with most things 5-6 days per week.
Thx for help esp u tuberman, answering my PMs and such.
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