Mind Steriods or Noots

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  1. Ani and Choline CDP.
    I capped up some Choline to avoid the smell and taste.
    First day I only felt a mild "good mood" and a little clearer thinking than normal for a man who just crossed 6 time zones and a 15 hour flight. Day 2, woke up after a vivid dream feeling refreshed. Second day went good. Felt much more alert and had clearer thinking than I usually do when I'm feeling the jet lag. 750mg Ani / 500mg CDP in the morning and another around 2pm.
    Went to bed about 10:30pm, very sleepy but couldn't sleep. Started feeling some anxiety and it kept me from falling asleep. More vivid dreams just before waking. Now it's 5am on day 3 and I'm wondering if I should take more. Don't like that anxiety feeling.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by RedRaptor View Post
    Ani and Choline CDP.
    I capped up some Choline to avoid the smell and taste.
    First day I only felt a mild "good mood" and a little clearer thinking than normal for a man who just crossed 6 time zones and a 15 hour flight. Day 2, woke up after a vivid dream feeling refreshed. Second day went good. Felt much more alert and had clearer thinking than I usually do when I'm feeling the jet lag. 750mg Ani / 500mg CDP in the morning and another around 2pm.
    Went to bed about 10:30pm, very sleepy but couldn't sleep. Started feeling some anxiety and it kept me from falling asleep. More vivid dreams just before waking. Now it's 5am on day 3 and I'm wondering if I should take more. Don't like that anxiety feeling.
    I did not get anxiety from the CDP + Ani combo, but over a year ago when my right knee became severely damaged I had strong bouts of anxiety due to feeling helpless, as I couldn't get around. I could not drive and could only walk stiff legged for a few feet at a time. I used Bacopa as acute remedy and it worked well enough. Bacopa used long-term is supposed to be an excellent noot itself, but the noot effects take months to lock in, but the anxiety reducing effects are immediate, and get a bit stronger with continued use.

    So if this combo continues to cause anxiety, then take a break and start it again after using Bacopa for 2-3 days. Just a thought.
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  3. I highly doubt the Ani is giving the anxiety, it does the exact opposite. Be careful with the dose, as like all racetams, it works on a bell curve. 1500 a day is the most recommended and workable amount. I've gone over thinking I wanted more, and it made me pretty "zoney" and kind of stoned feeling.

    If you are getting anxiety at night, try some ZMA and L-theanine. L-theanine was about the best anti-anxiety I had encountered before Ani. Together, there is a synergy and a calmness.

  4. I actually have some L-Theanine and ZMA so I'll take those tonight.
    I felt the anxiety again about 2 hours after my morning dose.
    Now just a slight headache similar to the headache I get from DAA. Right in the middle of the head.
    Can't be anything else. I'm taking a multi-vitamin, B-12 with folic acid, Ani and CDP is all.
    I'll take another does how as it's about 1:50pm and see what happens tonight with the ZMA and L-Theanine.

    Compared to AndroDrive I would rate Ani as very mild at this point. I don't feel the focus or clear thinking of AndroDrive even at only 3 per day.

  5. Yeah, I guess it could be the energy from Ani, but I didn't view it as anxiety. The thing is, everyone responds differently to noots. Some swear by ones that others hate.

    Also- it is much more common to take up to 2 weeks to notice effects. Some of us just get lucky really early. For me, Ani has never been strong in recall or direct memory enhancement, rather a strong anti-anxiety feeling that helped clear my head for clear thinking. It just clams and clears everything- like a clutter clean up.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Yeah, I guess it could be the energy from Ani, but I didn't view it as anxiety. The thing is, everyone responds differently to noots. Some swear by ones that others hate.
    Here is the way these work for me. AndroDrive does give me more DRIVE, but Ani opens me up to more sense flow, so bringing in new information from the senses is easier. If I want to have more refined logic, math skills, or work on problems of that nature, then AndroDrive is great. Yet if I want to improve reflexes to what is going on in the moment or if I want to have the auditory skills to quickly learn a new language, then Ani is much better. AndroDrive would have some positive effects in response to new sense input too, because of the alertness factor, yet it wouldn't be near as good as Aniracetam for this area.

    I can see where Ani would work well in the speaking to groups area, as the sense input flow allows you to catch subtle social nuances as they happen without effort.

    And I do get a mild euphoric effect from Ani that I don't get from AndroDrive. I've seen any number of times where people will respond in the opposite or close to opposite direction that I get. Four years ago I tried some very minimal doses of SSRIs (Zoloft at it's smallest dose) to do a low carb diet, and it worked for me. I gave my brother 1/2 of this 50 mg dose, and he had severe anxiety with a racing mind and racing heart rate. I read after that this is not uncommon.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    I look at this as CDP and hu

    I've always been somewhat absent minded, even at a young age, and CDP Choline and Lion's Mane have caused a huge improvement over the last year or so. Also, something to enhance choline is a positive with all racetams, so CDP Choline is not an extra, but I could discontinue the Lion's Mane for a bit, as it would be interesting to see how I am without after more than a year. My guess is that it's effects will last anyway.
    I'm just curious how long it took before you felt the benefits of Lion's Mane?


    I just started a few weeks ago. I've read that it can take up to 6 months before the benefits are noticed. I've been disappointed by Bacopa but I haven't given up. I've just about been able to do without coffee which I think has done some damage to my nerves and memory. I drank strong tall cups of Peets and Starbucks everyday for years and years and followed up with second cups of coffee or diet coke.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I've been in IT on the support side for 17 years- that is really what is messing you up. haha
    Same here, what brain/soul destroying line of work. The technology keeps changing faster and faster. In fact, that is what got me interested in nootrops, I was studying constantly and starting to have difficulty keeping up with recent grads still in their 20's. Drinking coffee all day was taking its cumulative toll, even though it keeps you going when the pressure is on. I'm still experimenting with different noop stacks for the ultimate learning/remembering/critical thinking effects.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by jkshnanamnds View Post
    I'm just curious how long it took before you felt the benefits of Lion's Mane?


    I just started a few weeks ago. I've read that it can take up to 6 months before the benefits are noticed. I've been disappointed by Bacopa but I haven't given up. I've just about been able to do without coffee which I think has done some damage to my nerves and memory. I drank strong tall cups of Peets and Starbucks everyday for years and years and followed up with second cups of coffee or diet coke.
    You never really feel much of anything with Lion's Mane. After about 8 months I noticed... Hmmm, my sharpness and memory, especially memory seem much better than ever before, but I also used the CDP Choline too that whole time. I've never used Bacopa consistently, 3-4 days in a row is about max then some time away. I took the Lion's Mane ability to up NGF on faith after reading several studies a couple years ago, like fish oil it's long-term.

    I'm still reading several brain science books on neuroplasticity, as that gives powerful hints about how things work.

    What noots are you using now besides the Lion's Mane and Bacopa?

  10. Quick note: Started taking Noopept yesterday, and 3 doses so far. I stopped the aniracetam a couple of days before starting this. Noticeable intensity, but don't know what it does yet. Going to go after studying language as in Spanish with noots as a test and for the fun of it. Ordered a Spanish/English electronic translator I can use at work. it's pocket size. Cost me $63 with shipping.

    Cannot use the office computers for internet personal use very often so this is my solution.

  11. Stopped taking the Ani and started taking the Noopept two days ago.
    Started with 20mg and upped to 30mg today.
    Probably too early to judge but it feels good so far. Hard to pin down the feeling but it's overall good mood with increased focus.
    I started the Noot experiment with certain expectations. I was expecting something like AndroDrive. It hits you and there is a noticeable change. The Noots seem to be much more subtle.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jkshnanamnds View Post
    Same hear, what brain/soul destroying line of work. The technology keeps changing faster and faster. In fact, that is what got me interested in nootrops, I was studying constantly and starting to have difficulty keeping up with recent grads still in their 20's. Drinking coffee all day was taking its cumulative toll, even though it keeps you going when the pressure is on. I'm still experimenting with different noop stacks for the ultimate learning/remembering/critical thinking effects.
    I will say that if you don't mind taking mild steroids, AndroDrive at 3-4 caps per day, once after you wake up will allow you to pick up new analytic skills much quicker and with less stress, and you will feel it kick in when it starts to help. At 3 caps a day you get through one bottle in 8 weeks and that is plenty for me to feel strong effects. Eight weeks is usually enough time to bring you up to snuff with new tech stuff. I'm just interested in more things than techie info as that has lost its "magic" for me.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by RedRaptor View Post
    Stopped taking the Ani and started taking the Noopept two days ago.
    Started with 20mg and upped to 30mg today.
    Probably too early to judge but it feels good so far. Hard to pin down the feeling but it's overall good mood with increased focus.
    I started the Noot experiment with certain expectations. I was expecting something like AndroDrive. It hits you and there is a noticeable change. The Noots seem to be much more subtle.
    I'm into third day of Noopept and yep, there is focus factors to it. Has it got some stim effects? I'm not sure.

    I'll have to go back and check the material I read, but I believe it increases the neural growth factors as well, perhaps even more, much more than lion's mane.The growth factors are important for neural repair as well as growing new ones, and they help strengthen the Attention abilities which is critical. Attention itself is a two-way loop as the stronger attention you give to your interests, the stronger the parts of the brain dedicated to attention become. That's why the motivators say find something you really love to focus on, and catch fire. That Fire is Attention.

  14. Don't want to make this some sort of day to day log of my Noot experiments but I wanted to relate today's experience.
    Woke up from 9 hours sleep with a headache and stiff neck (I never sleep 9 hours!) Thought it was going to be a wasted day. Turned on the coffee machine and while waiting for it to heat up I started feeling better, then much better, then slightly euphoric. Now after morning noots and two shots of espresso my mind is snappy and I'm smiling with a feeling of being able to get some things done. Mikey likes it!

  15. I'd be curious what role the 9 hours of sleep had to do with the added noots. I would personally not like that amount of sleep and part of what I love about Rhodiola mixed with Ani, is the ability to feel refreshed and functioning on 5-6 hours of sleep. Too much sleep and I am groggy all day and less productive.

  16. 9 hours sleep could be attributed to my recovering from jet lag (I work in Africa and just arrived home on Wednesday, June 20) it takes about 1 day per hour of time difference to become acclimated to a new time zone.
    A note about the noot experience. I have this feeling that my mind or head has been "opened" or cleared out. Sounds and sight are sharper. Tasks are easier. Don't have to think "do this, do that" so much. It could be summed up as "brain fog has lifted". I just cleaned out the garage. Not a speedy feeling, just more motivated to get things done. I'm really liking this.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I've got a lot of knowledge on this stuff, but not much with the racetams.

    If you want something that works and works immensely... nothing beats Stablon (tianeptine) at a high dose, but it's expensive. Neuroprotective and also regenerative, as well as greatly influencing neuroplacticity. Nothing beats it imo
    funny also, stablon seems to be a spectacular adjunct to low carb dieting, those first few days where your mood swings really negatively and focus/motivation goes down.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    funny also, stablon seems to be a spectacular adjunct to low carb dieting, those first few days where your mood swings really negatively and focus/motivation goes down.
    Easy,

    What was your experience with Stablon? How much did you take per day? Curious.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    Easy,

    What was your experience with Stablon? How much did you take per day? Curious.
    I haven't taken it long term, just as short term mood/mind boost. 25mg, at most twice a day. Can't recall using it two days in a row even.

  20. I intend to extend a two month test to see how well I can pick up Spanish with the help of noots. The first 2 weeks I'll go back to Aniracetam, then I'll probably add some Noopept to this for the 2nd two weeks.

    I'm not going to get fluent in two months, but I want to be able to communicate and even play with the words. I haven't purchased any of the major language learning programs yet and may not. I picked up a book by a former Green Beret on how to pick up languages fast. I like his ideas. I'll make lists of the most critical words and phrases to learn and practice them. I now have my translator for work. The computer translators are even better for at home. After learning 1000 or so words with some simple phrases, I'll start to add some study of grammer to refine the process. I already have "Madrigal's Magic Key to Spanish" and will pick up "Breaking Out of Beginner's Spanish," after six weeks of so to start getting rid of gringo habits in my Spanish speaking. I will likely buy a set of flash cards to help practice and a couple of kid's books written in Spanish (story books for children) to help out. There is a hoard of material available online and I will further my searches there soon. The plan of attack on this stuff is important at the beginning as too much grammar would have me looking for escapar and the door at the start. Yet words are fun.

    I'll report back in two weeks and then after a month to say how I'm doing and how the ani and Noopept are doing.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    I will say that if you don't mind taking mild steroids, AndroDrive at 3-4 caps per day, once after you wake up will allow you to pick up new analytic skills much quicker and with less stress, and you will feel it kick in when it starts to help. At 3 caps a day you get through one bottle in 8 weeks and that is plenty for me to feel strong effects. Eight weeks is usually enough time to bring you up to snuff with new tech stuff. I'm just interested in more things than techie info as that has lost its "magic" for me.
    Thanks for this. I may try an 8 week cycle of AndroDrive as I am learning Objective-C and iOS programming while pounding the weights. I am an old-grey-beard and keeping up with the changes in technology is getting difficult. This is the kind of thing that came easy when I was younger.

    I am a former sys admin and now self-employed. There is less stress now than there was while being on-call 24hrs a day. Don't miss that at all.

  22. Noopept update. Really like this stuff. Clear thinking, improved memory to an extent. Not so much my short term memory but my long term is improved. Feel more comfortable in my skin if that makes sense.
    Working on cleaning out some things in a spare room. I noticed my organizational skills are much better.. like when I was younger.
    Side note: Tomorrow I visit Cenegenics. Spent an hour on the phone talking with one of the doctors and I was impressed with his knowledge.

  23. Update:

    Just got through buying a couple of health supps from online. Decided to use a credit card that I had not used for 6 months. I did NOT pull card from wallet. I remembered the 16 digit card number plus the 3 digit code and expiration date with no problem. Study memory has improved a lot. It's not "photographic" as I still have to go over material a decent amount of times according to the amount and difficulty of material, but the sharpness of recall has improved. This is with aniracetam or Noopept, as they both work well for study memory recall. There is more focus and drive with Noopept, but not the intensity of AndroDrive and it is different than AD in a way that I haven't been able to qualify yet.

    The Ani though has some of the socialization thing going for it. I use to think this was from the ability to observe nuances in social groups better, and it does do some of that. Yet it also has a direct socialization side to it that let's me enjoy the social more. I was using the ani during the credit card recall.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    You never really feel much of anything with Lion's Mane. After about 8 months I noticed... Hmmm, my sharpness and memory, especially memory seem much better than ever before, but I also used the CDP Choline too that whole time. I've never used Bacopa consistently, 3-4 days in a row is about max then some time away. I took the Lion's Mane ability to up NGF on faith after reading several studies a couple years ago, like fish oil it's long-term.

    I'm still reading several brain science books on neuroplasticity, as that gives powerful hints about how things work.

    What noots are you using now besides the Lion's Mane and Bacopa?

    I started with SNS Piracetam in February. I seemed to be a "responder" at first but after a few weeks the wondering effects seemed to wear off. The first couple of weeks were kind of unreal with vibrant colors, keener vision -- or perhaps my mind was more attentive - I was keenly aware of everyone's mood around me. I enjoyed being around people more - I didn't even mind waiting in line in a drug store or anything else tedious - it was all good. Over the years I've grown increasingly intolerant of crowds - not social anxiety - just boredom and fatigue.
    Then the Piracetam effects seemed to diminish although I still take it. Other people kept writing to stay with it, it
    takes a while but the initial effects didn't return.

    I've kept up with the Piracetam. I think I do get some slightly clearer thinking, in particular insights into other people's behaviors - just some extra perspective, nothing earth shattering. I also have Sulbutiame and Aniracetam. I take them with fish oil, again, the benefits are subtle. I can tell when one of the "rams" is taking effect when I am listening to classical music in my car and the sound system sounds better than before.

    I just ordered Noopept which is supposed to arrive in a week. I'm about ready to try AndroHard. It's getting to be expensive to try all these supps but anything that helps with my mental productivity is worth it in the long run.

  25. As an experiment, I decided to stop the Ani about 3 weeks ago and leave everything else the same. I really wanted to see if I had been really seeing the results that I was sure I had.

    The first 2-3 days I did not really notice much, except mild brain fog, but I had not slept that well, so I attributed it to that. Customer meetings were going well and I had a 30 person presentation on our new support model, that I had no problems with. On days 4-5, I started to notice a little bit of the apprehension that I used to feel before a meeting. Slight nervousness, but more just wanting to make sure I had everything lined up in my mind correctly. The fact that I had to do this, caused a little anxiety. All went fine, but I did notice this. Come day 7-9, I started getting my anxious feeling back before executive RCAs and meetings. A feeling that I was not going to be prepared enough, not have the answers, etc. Completely back to where I was. This doesn't happen all the time- maybe 50%.

    I decided to start up the 750mg Ani dose twice a day again knowing that I had a partner conference in the following days. The first 2 days back on (10 days off), I didn't notice much other than feeling quicker again with recall. On the morning of the 3rd day and a meeting lined up, I completely felt back at ease. Confident in my knowledge, articulation, and recall of the facts. I nailed the meeting and that really boosted my confidence for the next day. Once again, no anxiety at all and commanded total control of the room.

    I truly feel like Ani can be a life changing supplement for people that suffer minor to medium GAD or social anxiety. I have no problem in social situations, but this has absolutely improved my career.
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