I also like many of the noops you mention. How about something like this for a stack:
500mg artichoke, 10mg coleus forskolli, 500mg tyrosine
2g piracetam, 500mg alcar, 300 mg alpha gpc
I would't take the sulb so late in the day..it sometimes effects my sleep even when I take it early morning.
I'm just starting to read "The Archaeology of the Mind" by Jaak Panksepp, and this guy is cutting edge on affective knowledge of the MindBrain or feelings/emotions. It looks to be quite valuable to these discussions. He comes in at a different viewpoint on learning/cognition then my other sources, although there is some overlap between him and two others: Kandel and Davidson.
Jaak gets into fine points about memory and learning, breaking things down to much smaller detail than Kandel has in the two books I've read so far, yet there is a lot "between the lines" in the Kandel books. Jaak goes into how experiments for memories were carried out in labs, and suggests what may have been left out, and states what neurosciences don't know.
I would say at this point that it's probably a good idea to cycle cognitive enhancers as there is at least two modes in learning and searching for new knowledge, and even these can likely be broken down further. Also there is more than one type of LTP as full learning needs to tap into implicit LTP as well as explicit LTP. Explicit LTP is what we have been talking about on here, and it is the most important memory enhancer in the usual sense, yet implicit memory is the memory of motor skills and other unconscious functions (yes, we do have an unconscious memory) and it has it's own LTP which doesn't use the hippocampus. The whole hippocampus involvement with explicit LTP has a Wow! factor in the way it uses time and spacial context to hold long-term memories that you can consciously recall. Knowing this temporial and spacial context that the hippocampus uses is a big help to building LTP in these memories.
Panksepp's book is 500 pages and may take about 10 days or so for me to absorb.
This is why we need to cycle these noots and stimulants, because sometimes you just need to effectively work with what you already know, and sometimes you need to relax to observe more. Verbal fluency can be promoted by focused attention, as most people already know the words and phrases they want to use so dopamine stimulated neurons would help there. Any extra connections needed would be small and covered by general motivation. Executive function is covered mainly by shear motivation too, and you, again, are not learning much new, just being effective and efficient.
The thing with lumocity is much of it is speeding up what you already know, and making cognitive motor skills more effective. I could use this, but it is more important for me to expand my explicit mental territory right now in brain science and neurology.
Having said this, things go back to experience in real life, and to "Play the whole game" as David Perkins says, I've got to do things myself. I haven't tried the explicit LTP supps yet, but I will soon, so I get a feel for how it fits in to this or creates it's own territory.
Question: I've got 20% forskolin here, so should I go for the 95% stuff or is the kind I have now good enough. I will likely use artichoke extract with it, although I do have quercetin too.
BTW, If you are anyone else has a better way of looking at these things, do not just negate me, state your own model clearly for discussion. Show how you'd improve on my model. I'm here to learn. I will keep an open mind, and everything I assume right now is very open to an overhaul. I know that reading people like Panksepp will change my paradigm on cognition as an example.
It's funny you mention aniracetam, Magnesium L-Threonate, & bacopa. I use aniractam at 1:30pm with supporting supplements like some Krill but it's usually following a well-balanced lunch. Sparingly, I'll use Sulbutiamine a few days a week and it's a very nice combo in the afternoon. I use Magnesium L-threonate near noon and another 1 at night with some other chelated magnesium (450 total), chelated zinc (15mgs) and a bit of B6 (10-20mgs). I take Bacopa x 2 with my standard supplements at around 6 pm after dinner. I feel like, for me, I've developed the ideal 'cycle' for now. I always mix things up after 2-3 months except for my standard supplementation like vits/mins, EFAs, etc. I do realize the importance of coming off of any compounds but baseline kind of sucks tbh lol. Prior to my workouts, I do find it difficult to not want to utilize a stim of some sort since I have to keep going through a full day of work, my cardio/weight workout, kids and wife come home so we prepare dinner, cleanup, kids homework, baths and finally get to sit back and relax by 8:30-ish. Bed by 10-11 normally. I do cycle my stim use but for now, it's been with varying combos i.e ones that don't have your standard ECA with others. I take weekends off typically. I'm trying Maca for added energy and thus far (haven't finished the bottle), I'm finding no utility in it at all. This has been amongst other natural non-stim supps. I'm fairly energetic for a 40 year old anyways mostly due to vigorous cardio sessions followed by 30 minutes of variable intensity weights depending on how I'm feeling, decent nutrition and at least 7hrs of sleep per night.
Yeah, there always seems to be a ton of demands. I had to go into work for several hours, and just got home. I'm drinking a cup of coffee now with some Acetyl L-Carnitine so I can do some reading for several hours. I use aniracetam, Magnesium L-Threonate, & bacopa to help relax me. Sometimes I get upset with the speed of life today.
You "cycle" during the day, and truth be told so do I usually, as it's difficult to not use at least caffeine during the day. If you get Lehrer's "Imagine," read the chapter on W.H. Auden the famous poet. That was fascinating for me.
I may try Lumocity when I do the CILTEP regimen, but I'll complete my reading of at least two more brain science books first. Speedy motor skills using all the senses is a big part of the learning process too. Brain scientists will often include this type of learning in the implicit, or subconscious area, but that seems to be a problem with the way they slot knowledge and learning.
In the last 2 1/2 days I've read a little over half of the book, "The Archaeology of the Mind" by Jaak Panksepp. His model of the "Seeking System" introduces to me a whole new paradigm on how the brain works. The old model is the "reward/punishment learning system" created by the behaviorists. Even though behaviorism has fallen out of favor, for the most part, some of it's models for the meaning of learning are still strong in the brain science community. They are so powerful that most brain scientists will not risk their careers by going against the status quo. The Seeking System, it seems to me, is a vastly better way of looking into brain functions, learning, mood, and even how people mature than the old models.
This is an awesome book (and I never, ever use that type of overstatement, but this is an exception)!
I went and saw my Doc. and he really spent some time with me going over my less than optimal brain function. He said I have a
low Dopamine output. Instead of taking a more natural approach at this time, he took me off Prozac and put me on Wellbutrin which is more suited for my situation. He wants to try this for a while and get me moving and doing the things I used to enjoy. I have become skeptical about SSRIs, but am going to give this a try. I have read some pretty bad reactions from mixing this one with alcohol, I drink very rarely. This next week my family and I are going to our lakehouse for 6 days and I like to have some beers while sitting on the dock and chilln. If anyone has taken this med. and drank I would like to here your experiences. If I decide to say to hell with SSRIs, what would be some supps. to help with Dopamine output ?????
I finished Panksepp's book "The Archeology of the Mind." It does answer some questions, but opens many more. The study of the brain from an affective (feelings) viewpoint is relatively new.
In chap.6 he says, " LTP.....formation has been revealed....in vitro....with slabs of hippocampal tissue. ....Still....there remains a chasm of ignorance between ....LTP and the nature of real life memories."
Basically he is saying there is always strong involvement in the deeper earlier developed brain parts in the limbic system and even the midbrain for how quickly we learn, and how easy it is for us to retain memories and learning. If you want to learn fast and retain stuff with an iron grip, then fear for your life or fall in love with your interests.
He is saying much more though, and he does get into the problem with stims, especially for children with a diagnosis of ADHD. Stims make us more able to focus on daily (read boring) subjects, yet they reduce playfulness and seeking mode behavior that reveals totally new info. The seeking mode type behavior is what brings novel things actively into our lives and we tend to get stale and flat if this mode is stressed or turned down.
As far as retaining things, I think it goes without say that you are going to remember things you love or that almost killed you, more than things you don't care about.
This space for rent
Come visit my log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-up-level.html
Absolutely. I can get immediately nostalgic by going out to grab the paper in the morning and smelling the morning air. It will even take me back to being an elementary kid and walking to the bus.
For me, smell is the strongest link to memories.
I've been taking 600mg of pramiracetam the past week havnt noticed any worth mentioning.. I spend probably about 10-12 hours a week for school and dont feel i have retained any more info than usual. Going to start taking 900 soon
That is a ridiculous amount of prami to need to take. You likely aren't a responder and that is going to get very expensive.
Typically you will see the people on Longecity taking 1g+ doses to experiment with, but it isn't anything long term. Except for some of the nut jobs over there.
I totally agree with you that all this is "common knowledge." Yet what Panksepp is saying, is that most brain scientists even today do not include this common knowledge in there experimental concepts. They are still working with behaviorist models of "reward/punishment" when it comes to experimentation with learning, and that does not allow looking into things in these ways.
Is Pankseep correct about stims? He certainly is with kids on psychostimulants , but with adults it is more iffy. I can think of a couple of comedians on coke who were very playful.
The problem comes with creating new science that finds better ways of finding new info on deeper neuropaths and networks that actually include them in science in a way of being definite about their influence. Show how these networks interact with the neocortex in the learning process in humans. Most brain science is currently stating that affective or feeling input has very little ability to alter learning or that most emotional content is modulated in the neocortex anyway. There is a theory called the James-Lange concept, and it states that emotions are "fed back" to the neocortex, or the thinking part of the brain, and only then are emotions "experienced." So humans or animals don't have feelings until they "think about" them (and since animals can't think, they don't have real feelings or emotions). There are several versions today of this fed back cognition of emotions. Panksepp just says this is only somewhat true and mostly false, and if brain scientists want to make further progress on understanding things like LTP, and other learning concepts, they need to change their paradigm.
There are obviously completely other approaches such as "binding with oscillations" which are again new territory in brain research. I have a couple of books ordered that will deal with strengths and weaknesses of various scanning devices, such as fMRI, EEG, MEG, PET scans and more. BTW, the "binding with oscillations" scientists are also looking into the influences of deeper areas of the brain that create wakefulness and strongly influence the executive neocortex areas. The midbrain seems to be the central interest to them and particularly the motor areas, which are very close to the PAG area that Panksepp states is the center of the emotional area.
Unfortunately, these are both unexplored territories for the most part.