ZamaMan tests Monsterdrol XT

2k1s

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^^^^your mind be perceivin things that may or may not be happen'

it be in your head SON SON SON SONS ONS ONS!!!!1111one!11!

OMGZ OMGZ OMGZ

liver so strong, it be swole!




ok I can't type like schwellington for any longer.
 
ZamaMan

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^^^^your mind be perceivin things that may or may not be happen'

it be in your head SON SON SON SONS ONS ONS!!!!1111one!11!

OMGZ OMGZ OMGZ

liver so strong, it be swole!




ok I can't type like schwellington for any longer.

Rofl that's some funny stuff.
 
schwellington

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^^^^your mind be perceivin things that may or may not be happen'

it be in your head SON SON SON SONS ONS ONS!!!!1111one!11!

OMGZ OMGZ OMGZ

liver so strong, it be swole!




ok I can't type like schwellington for any longer.

The liver is strong though, one steroid cycle with alcohol included 2-3 times a week (in moderate amounts) is not going to destroy the liver
 
ZamaMan

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Was suppossed to workout tommorrow, but my workout partner just called and woke me up and needs to workout right now. So I'm off to gym dehydrated and still waking up. So I'm not expecting an amazing workout but hopefully Incan still manage to improve a little. I don't feel like I've gained any weight yet. Today is day 6 I believe.
 
chocolatemilk

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Looking forward to the update brah... KtS son!!!!
 
ZamaMan

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AIght I'm back, and feel like puking from my pwo meal lol

weight 201.5 ( I usually weigh in evening so it would be higher)

upper body workout

incline BB bench 175x5,5 165x5
Pull ups 15lbX 6,5; 7.5lbX4 lol
Flat B.B. Bench 135x12; 130x9 ; 4 second reps
cable rows close grip 135x9; 120x9 4 second reps
lateral raises 17.5lb X 9,9; 4 second reps
dips BW x10,6; 4 second reps
curls 60 or 65 x12,10; 4 second reps

I was real happy to actually make through the workout this time. My last two upper days I've had trouble, didn't even get to arms last time. I think the key is fighting the urge to go to absolute life or death failure. On this higher freqency program your suppossed to leave one hard rep in the tank. This time on most of my lifts if it was life or death I could have gotten another one up.

I'm used to going to absoulte failure so it's hard to retrain myself but it's going good. It's nice to not constantly be dropping weight after each set due to too much fatigue. Lyle also prefers slow rep metabolic work on the arms as oppossed to the strength training since , 1 the arms got hit with strength training on the back and chest excercises, and 2 he doesn't like going real heavy on isolation excercises due to stress on the joints. The high rep slow pace made my bi's look insane! =]

This was my second time doing BB incline. I've only really done DB, so I'm not sure if those numbers are where they should be or not. All pull ups as always were done from complete dead hangs, usually a 1 second pause at bottom.

I have definetly gained some fat over the last three weeks of bulking but man I'm starting to feel larger again. Some is fat size but alot is muscle, I'm feeling as bulky as I was at 212 at the end of my last bulk. My brother commented on it as well. It's the curse of being tall and long with realitively broad frame, I put on 25 lb of muscle in 2010 and yeah it's made a fantastic differance, but a 5'8 guy with shorter limbs, and smaller frame puts on 25 lb of muscle and they look huge. Lol I'm go na have to turn in a monster to be happy! =]
 
ZamaMan

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oh te only thing pre workout I had in my system was a whey shake. Pwo meal was a blend of cassin and whey 80g shake, medium sized plate of a chicken dish with chese and rice, and a bowl of cereal
 
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So are you feeling the big pumps in your workouts, or muscle hardness, or any other signs of something working?
 
ZamaMan

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So are you feeling the big pumps in your workouts, or muscle hardness, or any other signs of something working?
Not that I notice. Though i'm just starting to get through the routine nicely now, so I'm not accustomed to the amount of pump normal for it. I will say if you have never tried a metabolic fatigue set try one. You will get so pumped lol. Just remember to drop weight down maybe 40% and make sure every rep is 4 seconds total. If you start moving the bar one 1 than you count to 5 before the set is done. It's so hard to push up at that slow of a pace.

Tommorrow I will be hitting legs again so I'll get to see if there's any strength increases. If there is a steroid in there it dosent pull glycogen weight in as quickly. Today was day 6 I believe. I notice some thirst, urine is staying pretty clear looking unlike when I'm on SD. Heads been feeling kinda funny, almost like what happens when i take ephedrine and caffine.
 
schwellington

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Your diet sucks balls
Lol construcitve feed back always get that from Mr. Pr


gotta love the guy


Zama i x2 this but wouldnt have worded it like that

instead of using shakes i would use beef or eggs dude


shakes are good yes, but their amino acid profile is different than beef(which is better):spank:
 
ZamaMan

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what is your macros?
no clue, I only pay attention for the first couple days of a bulk, than just maintain similar meals. Protein is prob around 300g, carbs I shoot 400, I try n keep fat low, which happens some days, some days doesn't.

interesting sides so far great updates
yeah not too muh to report either way. Weight is going up steadily. I may have had a jump over the last 3 days but being dehydrated and fasted at weigh in makes it impossible to tell today. Will have a co
parative reading on Tuesday evening.

Your diet sucks balls


Lol construcitve feed back always get that from Mr. Pr


gotta love the guy


Zama i x2 this but wouldnt have worded it like that

instead of using shakes i would use beef or eggs dude


shakes are good yes, but their amino acid profile is different than beef(which is better):spank:

Sigh... So many of you guys are blinded by what you read in mags and forums. You probably believe in clean eating too huh? Clean eating is a joke( jcd wrote a good article call "the clean eating scam ftr) eat what you want. If you want to eat 6 meals a day good for you. I personally am done eating over 3 solid meals a day. The absolute only thing that matters is how the macros break down at the end of the day. If you have every grams of fat left over you need to sqeeze in, person A eats eggs or olive oil to get it in cause he's brain washed to do so, and person B uses those grams of fat for some ice cream and still has perfect macros there will be 0.00000% differance In there body composition. So eating lean beef, and chicken and rice all day won't make a bit of differance, only who hits there proper numbers day in and day out.

P.s. Remember alot of beef cuts are high in fat so make sure n not allow that to cause you to underestimate your fat content/total calories.
 
schwellington

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no clue, I only pay attention for the first couple days of a bulk, than just maintain similar meals. Protein is prob around 300g, carbs I shoot 400, I try n keep fat low, which happens some days, some days doesn't.



yeah not too muh to report either way. Weight is going up steadily. I may have had a jump over the last 3 days but being dehydrated and fasted at weigh in makes it impossible to tell today. Will have a co
parative reading on Tuesday evening.



your mom sucks balls!




Sigh... So many of you guys are blinded by what you read in mags and forums. You probably believe in clean eating too huh? Clean eating is a joke( jcd wrote a good article call "the clean eating scam ftr) eat what you want. If you want to eat 6 meals a day good for you. I personally am done eating over 3 solid meals a day. The absolute only thing that matters is how the macros break down at the end of the day. If you have every grams of fat left over you need to sqeeze in, person A eats eggs or olive oil to get it in cause he's brain washed to do so, and person B uses those grams of fat for some ice cream and still has perfect macros there will be 0.00000% differance In there body composition. So eating lean beef, and chicken and rice all day won't make a damn bit of differance, only who hits there proper numbers day in and day out.

P.s. Remember alot of beef cuts are high in fat so make sure n not allow that to cause you to underestimate your fat content/total calories.
you say all that matters is break down of macros- so your saying i could eat doughnuts for my carbs?!

this doesnt make sense to me- because those sugars will be stored as fat deposits, also say...the only protein you lived off of was whey...whey has a good amino acid profile...no doubt...but it is not like beef

so in this aspect i have to both agree and disagree with you


you eat enough food whatever kind it is- you will gain muscle but also alot of fat

you eat clean high density caloric meals from multiple sources

you will gain more muscle mass than fat because the nutrients will NOT be stored as fat but used in energy metabolism and muscle reconstruction


oh, and i dont read bodybuilding mags ;)
 
schwellington

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no clue, I only pay attention for the first couple days of a bulk, than just maintain similar meals. Protein is prob around 300g, carbs I shoot 400, I try n keep fat low, which happens some days, some days doesn't.



yeah not too muh to report either way. Weight is going up steadily. I may have had a jump over the last 3 days but being dehydrated and fasted at weigh in makes it impossible to tell today. Will have a co
parative reading on Tuesday evening.



your mom sucks balls!




Sigh... So many of you guys are blinded by what you read in mags and forums. You probably believe in clean eating too huh? Clean eating is a joke( jcd wrote a good article call "the clean eating scam ftr) eat what you want. If you want to eat 6 meals a day good for you. I personally am done eating over 3 solid meals a day. The absolute only thing that matters is how the macros break down at the end of the day. If you have every grams of fat left over you need to sqeeze in, person A eats eggs or olive oil to get it in cause he's brain washed to do so, and person B uses those grams of fat for some ice cream and still has perfect macros there will be 0.00000% differance In there body composition. So eating lean beef, and chicken and rice all day won't make a damn bit of differance, only who hits there proper numbers day in and day out.

P.s. Remember alot of beef cuts are high in fat so make sure n not allow that to cause you to underestimate your fat content/total calories.
oh and their will be a difference in body composition

if you look at how energy is metabolized and or stored....there will be a huge difference....you must look at it on a cellular level though
 
ZamaMan

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you say all that matters is break down of macros- so your saying i could eat doughnuts for my carbs?!

this doesnt make sense to me- because those sugars will be stored as fat deposits, also say...the only protein you lived off of was whey...whey has a good amino acid profile...no doubt...but it is not like beef

so in this aspect i have to both agree and disagree with you


you eat enough food whatever kind it is- you will gain muscle but also alot of fat

you eat clean high density caloric meals from multiple sources

you will gain more muscle mass than fat because the nutrients will NOT be stored as fat but used in energy metabolism and muscle reconstruction


oh, and i dont read bodybuilding mags ;)

Sure a doughnut a day is fine. I wouldn't eat all your fats and fats from doughnuts though. A well balanced diet is always best, that doesn't mean you need to eat everything. Just means spread the foods out that you like to eat.

My wife eats nearly all her calories from carbs, she's a carb monster, and she maintains her 100 lbs or so (tiny girl) not cause she has a fast metabolism but ONLY due to total calories. She doesn't lose muscle mass, she doesn't gain fat, cause she comes in at maintainance.

You claims of your body storing less fat and building more mass is totally unscientific. You need to go to lean gains website and read what Martin berkham eats. He maintains 5.5% bf year round for years, prob the only 200lber in the world to do so, and guess what???? He eats chese cakes, loads of realitively healthy desserts(desserts non thr less) ect. He doesn't mind drinking occassionally, ect. So until anyone of you gets Down to 5.5% as maintaince I really don't think you can tell him he's wrong.

The other main point is you "clean food" fanatics WILL breakdown and stop progressing from time to time. Even unreal machine had times were he hadn't been able to keep his diet together and gained fat, for a couple months(I think I read that) anyways the point is nearly no one can maintain a chicken, beef, rice and oat meal diet for years. It's not gonna happen, I on the other hand have learned to adapt what I eat to preferance, how full I wanna be certain days ect, and gues what?? In 2010 I havnt wasted more than a week of ti
e. And even that was only cause I was on vaccation.

Balance is key, you like beef eat it, I do sometimes, you like ice cream, doughnuts, cake? Include them into weekly even daily macros. You like fruit, get alot of sugar carbs, especially pwo from them.

EAT what yu LIKE just plan then in your daily requirement.
 
ZamaMan

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Also, i've cut with "clean" foods such as chicken breast, rice, oatmeal; and notice zero differance from my last cut which was so much nicer. If I wanted pizza or katsu chicken and mac salad, than I would I would just plan it in my day. In fact at least 2 days a week I would have totally unhealthy dinners, I'd just eat mostly pure protein durring the day, than have a shake and eat a moderate amount of insanly fatty foods. By working this into my diet weekly in wad able to keep progressing and not go binge. I was just suppossed to take a 2 week diet break than go for another 6 weeks of dieting to get sub 10% before I bilked, which was proving no problem with this kind of flexibility. Only CM asking me to log this altered my plans

The point is if your not flexible, you will almost find it impossible to reach monster 210@8bf or better status.
 
MrBigPR

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Your motivation could be higher if you ate a little "cleaner", I hear you complain about feeling fat yet you continually eat the way you do. IMO you eat a little too much sugar and schwell hit on it depositing as fat. There are times when you can eat "whatever you want" but it's usually for a metabolism "kick start" after a period of dieting (to keep yourself sane). Not hating man, just calling it how I see it. That diet won't work for ever, even if it's working now.
 
2k1s

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that diet also can't be good for your blood pressure.
 
ZamaMan

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Your motivation could be higher if you ate a little "cleaner", I hear you complain about feeling fat yet you continually eat the way you do. IMO you eat a little too much sugar and schwell hit on it depositing as fat. There are times when you can eat "whatever you want" but it's usually for a metabolism "kick start" after a period of dieting (to keep yourself sane). Not hating man, just calling it how I see it. That diet won't work for ever, even if it's working now.
First I complain about feeling fat at body fat levels you guys would say your happy with. That's all personal image and not diet related. Weight is rising steady so I don't know what you were hoping for.

What sugar? I don't ever buy desserts or sodas ect. My diet has consisted of 2-3 solid food meals, either a couple tunna sandwitches, speghetti, steak and mash potatoes, potatoes mushroom mixture wrapped in roast beef. On top of 2-3 of these solid food meals a day, I will usually have a shake with ground otmeal and banana, and another 1-2 shakes through out the day. Where is all this sugar?

Also schwell was completely wrong about the sugar but thanks for contributing to wrong forum dogma. Sugar does NOT get stored as fat atomatically, if you eat alot of sugar but are under or at maintainance you will correspondingly lose or maintian weight. If you eat over maintainance 500 calories and had some sugar one day to fill some of those calories than you will gain weight, the fat/muscle ratio can depend of course. However don't think that your body sits there and sorts out all your healthier calories, than at the end of the day gathers all the sugar and says "hey we got extra calories and there all sugar, guess I can't build any muscle and will just store it all as fat". That's absurd. You body will burn the sugar through the day, and you will continue to make the same progress as someone on a lower sugar diet.
Starting weight was 199. Good thing was I was already bulking for like 2 weeks while on my diet break so my body was already glycogen and water loaded so there won't be any false weight gain.
 
MrBigPR

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First I complain about feeling fat at body fat levels you guys would say your happy with. That's all personal image and not diet related. Weight is rising steady so I don't know what you were hoping for.

What sugar? I don't ever buy desserts or sodas ect. My diet has consisted of 2-3 solid food meals, either a couple tunna sandwitches, speghetti, steak and mash potatoes, potatoes mushroom mixture wrapped in roast beef. On top of 2-3 of these solid food meals a day, I will usually have a shake with ground otmeal and banana, and another 1-2 shakes through out the day. Where is all this sugar?

Also schwell was completely wrong about the sugar but thanks for contributing to wrong forum dogma. Sugar does NOT get stored as fat atomatically, if you eat alot of sugar but are under or at maintainance you will correspondingly lose or maintian weight. If you eat over maintainance 500 calories and had some sugar one day to fill some of those calories than you will gain weight, the fat/muscle ratio can depend of course. However don't think that your body sits there and sorts out all your healthier calories, than at the end of the day gathers all the sugar and says "hey we got extra calories and there all sugar, guess I can't build any muscle and will just store it all as fat". That's absurd. You body will burn the sugar through the day, and you will continue to make the same progress as someone on a lower sugar diet.
Starting weight was 199. Good thing was I was already bulking for like 2 weeks while on my diet break so my body was already glycogen and water loaded so there won't be any false weight gain.
You fail to take in account insulin, body is not as easy as you think.
 
schwellington

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Also, i've cut with "clean" foods such as chicken breast, rice, oatmeal; and notice zero differance from my last cut which was so much nicer. If I wanted pizza or katsu chicken and mac salad, than I would I would just plan it in my day. In fact at least 2 days a week I would have totally unhealthy dinners, I'd just eat mostly pure protein durring the day, than have a shake and eat a moderate amount of insanly fatty foods. By working this into my diet weekly in wad able to keep progressing and not go binge. I was just suppossed to take a 2 week diet break than go for another 6 weeks of dieting to get sub 10% before I bilked, which was proving no problem with this kind of flexibility. Only CM asking me to log this altered my plans

The point is if your not flexible, you will almost find it impossible to reach monster 210@8bf or better status.
Okay okay all i wanna know is wtf is katsu chicken- it sounds good:bling:
 
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Diet is constantly being revisited. I tried the Lean Gains aproach but I was just too full to enjoy it. I couldn't cram 1500-2000 cals into that 1st meal and feel good much less want to eat later. I understand the science behind it regarding fasting and leptin response but until the book comes out I just felt like my macros were screwey and I couldn't shove that much food down my throat at once... So I decided to hold off until I read the book before giving it a real shot.
 
chocolatemilk

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http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

Z what was your starting weight?

199 and now you are 201 in 6 days?

What dose are you taking?

The article I posted involves losing weight... I don't know if the same thing would apply to bulking. I try to get only 100 g of protein from whey. Cycle protocol is 2 scoops 2x a day in milk. The rest of the diet I try to eat whatever is in sight except for sugar. Everything else, I scarf down even if it's "fast food."

There's no such thing as a clean bulk... there is only BULK!!!
 
ZamaMan

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Nice article. Repped, the 199-201 isn't a fair comparision since I always weigh in durring evenig time. The last weigh in was 201 in thr moning with just a shake and dehydrated. So I think it would have been 203 durring norm hydration and a days food intake. But we won't know till tommorrows evening weigh in.
 
chocolatemilk

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Yeee boy keep pushing up that weight...

Hopefully your next weigh in in the evening will show more weight increase. Also excited to see your strength increases if any are coming up.

LOL @ video voices...
 
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First I complain about feeling fat at body fat levels you guys would say your happy with. That's all personal image and not diet related. Weight is rising steady so I don't know what you were hoping for.
That has everything to do with your genetics. You could eat like **** and not get fat. Saying that eating clean is a pointless pursuit is wrong. You probably need to eat dirty to even gain anything.

Yes, I'm fatter than you but you're not exactly the most ripped dude out there. If you get to 6% or whatever your goal is and you're still eating that way I'll be impressed.
 
MrKleen73

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Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds - CNN.com

Z what was your starting weight?

199 and now you are 201 in 6 days?

What dose are you taking?

The article I posted involves losing weight... I don't know if the same thing would apply to bulking. I try to get only 100 g of protein from whey. Cycle protocol is 2 scoops 2x a day in milk. The rest of the diet I try to eat whatever is in sight except for sugar. Everything else, I scarf down even if it's "fast food."

There's no such thing as a clean bulk... there is only BULK!!!
A response from a natural carb sensitive fatty...

YOU SUCK!!! That is all...

That has everything to do with your genetics. You could eat like **** and not get fat. Saying that eating clean is a pointless pursuit is wrong. You probably need to eat dirty to even gain anything.

Yes, I'm fatter than you but you're not exactly the most ripped dude out there. If you get to 6% or whatever your goal is and you're still eating that way I'll be impressed.

The Lean Gains approach works for A LOT of people it is based off of leptin response to intermittent fasting. The science is sound however their are still concerns with it regarding carbohydrate sensitivity. If you are very carb sensitive you still need to have a little lower carb set up than say Zama does because he looks like he is not a natural fatty and is probably not overly carb sensitive. However the diet allows for even someone like myself who is extremely carb sensitive to take in 200-250 grams of carbs a day which on any other diet would start adding some fat on me. There is a lot of science backing up the diet and when applied correctly it works wonders for those who enjoy the diet.

Martin (Lean Gains Author) is actually not a naturally lean person when you look at his older pics he wasn't shredded but carried a normal amount of fat for your average guy. Granted the diet can be implemented very loosely for someone like Zama, someone like me has to be careful not to take too much advantage regarding the freedom of choice with that diet. I have a pretty good grasp of nutrition and have read a good bit of literature regarding diet and the reactions on cellular level and hormonal levels and am actually excited to read the book when it comes out and move forward on trying to use the diet. The science behind the diet is accurate and checks out, I just want more information before trying to apply it again as i feel I am missing something from the reading I have been able to do on the site.
 
ZamaMan

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Here's an article by JCD Fitness, you can search on google to get to his site as it is full of great info, and is all free too which is awesome. I think this article is important cause it shows the balance, that yeah you can achive great results eating "clean" but you can also achive great results not eating clean as well. Here's the article

Clean eating – it’s a term we’ve all used and have surely heard a million times.* We’ve stumbled upon it in the magazines, seen it in our favorite diet books and have probably even heard it on TV.* Heck there’s even a magazine titled Clean Eating.

Now I have no problem with the magazine – the recipes are really good and the pictures are something I often lust after.* I do, however, have a problem with the negative connotation it presents to the minds of many health and fitness enthusiasts and even some professionals unwilling to consider other ideas.

For many who adhere strictly to the clean-eating principles, it cripples our relationship with food and often affects our social lives.* For some, it has much steeper consequences.* An obsession with clean eating and meal timing can be the cause for dysfunctional eating down the road for a few.

I cannot say that clean eating is the cause of any particular eating disorder, but my hunch tells me ideas behind the concept are partly responsible for many health and fitness folk developing a tragic relationship with their cheesecake.

An Obsession in the Making

In my first year of college, I was very fortunate to get involved with a great group of people the opening weeks of class.* Most of these people also happened to be very physically active like myself and enjoyed competition as much as I did.

It turned out that every year a little contest was held during a student conference over Christmas break.* It was secret and non-commercial.* They labelled it the “best-body competition” although it had no formal name.* Yea, I was invited to compete.

The cost was $60 to enter and there were about 15-20 participants.* There was first, second and third place prize money to be had and I made up my mind to be a placing contestant.

At the time of my joining, I was pretty chunky.* I was still athletic as I continued the resistance training I participated in for football but I really needed to lose about 35+ pounds to have a shot at this thing.

So what did I do?* Just like most everyone does, I scoured the internet and every magazine for all the info on clean eating and losing body fat that I could find.* My of my sleepless nights spent searching were successful; well at least I thought so anyway.

So for about 3 months straight, I put my newfound knowledge to good use.* I ate 6-7 small meals daily, all of which contained about 30-40g of protein, fiber, healthy fat and some form of clean carbohydrate.* I trained on the weights about 4-5 times all the while doing 20+ miles on the elliptical or treadmill every 7 days.* Smell a disaster?

Weekly schedule
Up at 7 to do my cardio.
Breakfast right after.
Class.
Weights after class.

In all reality, the only reason I believe I didn’t burn out had to be a result of my previous athletic conditioning and from the sheer amount of food I was eating.

I had an unlimited meal pass to the cafeteria, therefore in between classes, I used to roll in and grab some lean protein and a few pieces of fruit for a snack.* All my meals were deemed clean as I ate lots of egg whites (cholesterol is bad, you know?), bland brown rice (no MSG from seasoning), oatmeal (not the packets either), cottage cheese, steamed broccoli (no butter), the occasional spoon of natural peanut butter and dry chicken breast. **The diet was miserable as I watched all of my friends eat greasy pasta, ribs and ice cream cones – they were as active as I was and in fairly decent condition, too.

While I never counted calories (I didn’t know how at the time), I’d guess I was eating between 2500 and3000 calories on most days.* Some days were well above 4000 calories (unintended binge cheat days).* Keep in mind I was walking everywhere, training twice daily and always atended social functions (standing, dancing, and trying not to pass out).

To cut myself short, the moral of the story is this.* I lost a good 35-40 pounds in both fat and muscle and got the 2nd place prize money.* This was also the very first time in my life that I’d ever seen a full row of abs when gazing into the mirror.

And here is where it gets dark.

One word: OBSESSION

But before we get into what I went through, let’s first establish what clean eating really entails and why it makes no sense – no matter how you look at it.

Clean Eating Exposed

While there is no real basis as to what constitutes a clean and a dirty source of food, the idea is still prevalent to this day.* Allow me to educate you on why this faulty type of thinking stands firm.

I have no clue where the concepts came about or who originally coined these terms but I think they’re awful and here’s why.

Typically, clean foods are considered to be whole, unprocessed, low-calorie choices and dirty foods tend to be higher in calories, full of flavor, the occasional man-made compounds such as artificial sweeteners or trans-fats, and they’re only acceptable every once in a while (and for some – NEVER).

It’s common knowledge that clean eating will produce the muscle gain and fat loss results you want, while a diet full of dirty food will give you subpar results at best.* However, this makes no sense when looking at the macro composition of foods that are often referred to as clean or dirty.

If I were to sit the stereotypical, fitness junkie down for a flash card test, in which he/she labelled foods as dirty or clean based upon a picture, this is likely how I imagine it would go.

Flash Card: Pizza
Fitness Junkie: Dirty
Flash Card: Tomatoes, olives, shredded cheese, onions, beef
Fitness Junkie: Clean, bro!

Flash Card: Stir fry with white rice
Fitness Junkie: Dirty
Flash Card: Brown rice, broccoli, asparagus, chicken
Fitness Junkie: Clean

Flash Card: White bread
Fitness Junkie: Dirty
Flash Card: Whole grain, wheat bread
Fitness Junkie: Clean

Without further ado, I’m certain you get the point.* And here’s why it makes no sense.

Let’s take a pizza pie for example.* I love pizza and I love even more so to make my own at home.* I eat the same foods day in and day out so spicing up my diet with something like a fresh pizza is always a treat.

The typical ingredients for a pizza are dough, crushed tomatoes, cheese, meat (beef, pork, chicken), olive oil, lots of veggies and sometimes fruit like pineapple.* All of these foods by themselves are typically deemed clean by the informed fitness fanatic.

Combine them for an awesome pizza pie and you can’t bust their mouths open with a baseball bat.

We’ve garnered some sort of negative connotation with these foods that are traditionally higher in calories mainly because of the fast-food way of preparing them (lots of oil and other high fat items) but in reality, there is nothing different about the macro composition.

And this is why many people will allow their social lives to take a nosedive – all because of some false belief that a slice or two of pizza will make their waistline expand but an equal caloric amount of brown rice and chicken won’t.

Now let’s take a look at how this myth began to cripple me.

How a Newfound Hobby Turned into Mental Chaos

After the competition was finished, we headed over to the local 24-hour diner.* I ordered the fattest plate of eggs, bacon, sausage, pancakes, waffles, hash browns and cheesy grits you’ve ever seen.* It would’ve made Adam Richman (man vs. food) very proud.* If I had the money, I would’ve gotten the entire dessert menu for my appetizer.

You see, after long periods of clean eating, it’s common knowledge to have a cheat meal.* Mine was epic.* The mental anguish I experienced a few days later was more than I could bear.* After seeing a full row of abs completely blurred out as a result of the sheer amount of food and sodium I inhaled – I was in shock.* It was traumatizing to witness all of my hard work completely undone. Little did I know that it was only water retention and I would return to normal a few days later.

Now, when this happens I just brush it off because I know in a few days the water will flush out and I’ll return to previous sexification.* Then, however, I had no such clue.

And this is where a bad cycle began.* All because of clean eating.

You see, at this point, the only smart thing to do would’ve been to cut back on the cardio, tone down the weight training for a few weeks and take a well-deserved break but I didn’t.

I fully believed in the go-hard-or-go-home approach, so I kept everything up.* Except this time, I was more devoted than ever.* I even started separating my meals into protein/carb and protein/fat portions for fear of fat storage.

What did this mean exactly?

It meant I was the only one abstaining from pizza during social outings.* It meant omitting the bun from my hamburgers during our Sunday evening cookouts.* It also meant I ordered the naked chicken tenders with water instead of enjoying the wings and beer with all my buddies at the bar.

It was all because of my obsession with the clean and unclean myth that plagues many fitness enthusiasts’ psyche even to this very hour.

Someone out there right now is worrying incessantly about whether or not to have some melted cheese on their chicken and rice.* No joke – it’s happening.

This went on for a period of time.* I wasn’t making progress and was tired of spinning my wheels.* Luckily, I found a coach who pointed me in the right direction.

The truth is, people like me, and many others have been on both sides of the fence and not just the clean eating side.* I’ve went through periods of time where all I ate was sugary cereal, and white bread for my carbohydrate sources with no ill-effect.* Nothing.* I didn’t magically gain any fat or lose any muscle.* I’d say the only real difference I noticed was a slight increase in hunger just because there’s very little fiber in those food choices and they’re easier (for me) to overeat, etc.

So yes, I know what it’s truly like to be married to a false concept.* I also know what it’s like to break that bond.* The grass really is greener over here, by the way.* Read my meal frequency article to understand what I mean.

Clean Eating and Cheat Meals – Don’t Get Caught Up

Finally, the last concept I want to mention is the cheat meal situation.* As Home sapiens, it’s coded into our being to give into do something we ought not to do.* Yea, it’s the rebellious gene and we all have it.

But here’s the problem, a cheat meal is lame, and when you think about it, what are you accomplishing as a result?

Since most cheat meals, by nature, consist of a boatload of calories you’ve been depriving yourself of for weeks and even months, it does nothing for your long-term strategy.* The reason is because for many, the few days after a cheat meal (sometimes resulting in a binge) usually consist of excess exercise and a lack of nutrients.* After a few days of deprivation, you have the urge to cheat yet again.* I’m sure you can see where this might lead.

So, ideally, you will abandon the notion of clean eating altogether and adopt a mindset of food being energy and nothing else.* Say it out loud with me.

“Food is neither clean nor unclean, but merely energy my body needs to function and survive.”

That’s it.* If you look at it this way, there’s no reason you can’t fit a brownie in for dessert a few times per week.* By going about it this way, you eliminate the desire for a full-on cheat meal and you’ll prove to yourself that the clean eating concept is nothing but horsefeathers.

It doesn’t exist.

Your turn.* What do you think?


This article was written by JCD Fitness
 
Grambo

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A calorie isn't a calorie and that's common knowledge. You can definitely cut with less clean foods for sure as long as macros are decent and you aren't eating **** 24/7 just here and there. Also depends on the genetic make up of people. Its also a psychological benefit that you work around it.

Anyway I know most of us are pretty young but long term the health benefits are going to be 100x better for us eating clean versus a twinkie diet :D (yes hyperbole lol). Not sure if that was discussed as far as health.

Just two cents from my area......good luck on you bioperine bulk




JP ;)
 
Grambo

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Also if food is just fuel and that's it then it shouldn't matter what it tastes like (talking about that article )
 
ZamaMan

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Lol repped for the bioprene comment. I think you missed the whole point of the article. =]


UPDATE

I went to bank to make a deposit and saw my moms car at the gym, so figured i'd run in there and see her. Anyways when i was done figured I'd weigh in real quick. Anyways I weighed in slightly more than I expected... Especially given the fact that I only had on solid food meal all day due to being stranded and not much water either.

Though I was in jeans at the same time so I don't wanna get your hopes up... I also wanna make you bastards anticipate tommorrows weigh in so I'm not telling!!!!! =]
 
RickRock13

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great informative article bro! I don't look at food as dirty or clean either. I just look at my total cals, and macro breakdown ratio of proteins, carbs, and fats. If my ratio and numbers are where I want them then, i am happy:)
 
schwellington

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BISH I WANT TO KNOW UR WEIGHT RIGHT NOW UR SUCH A LITTLE BISH ASS BISH FOR TEASING.........................FOCKIN BISH
 
schwellington

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BISH I WANT TO KNOW UR WEIGHT RIGHT NOW UR SUCH A LITTLE BISH ASS BISH FOR TEASING.........................FOCKIN BISH
I hope i dont get banned for this ^^^^^:drillsergeant:
 
UnrealMachine

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I strongly disagree with the statement that the only important factor is the total macros at the end of the day.

First, there is a colossal difference between eating all those calories in 1 meal vs 2 meals, 3 meals, 4 meals, 5 meals, or 10 meals. I don't think anyone will argue with that. The spacing is important. You cannot have your 3800 calories in 2 sittings and expect your body to process it properly. Similarly, you cannot wake up at 6am and then not eat anything at all until 5pm, then eat all your calories in 3 meals and go to sleep at 11pm and expect to do well.

Second, Schwell was absolutely right, there is a big difference in where your carbs lie in the glycemic index. If you think all carbs are equal, then try replacing 100% of your carbs with straight fructose and see how you do.

Third, the spacing and timing proteins, fats, and carbs individually is important. You cannot eat 6 meals a day having 100% protein in your first 3 and pure fat and carbs in your second 3. You don't want to have nothing but fat in the 2 meals following your intense lifting session. You don't want to have all carbs before bed. ETC.

you "clean food" fanatics WILL breakdown and stop progressing from time to time. Even unreal machine had times were he hadn't been able to keep his diet together and gained fat, for a couple months
I have a reason that I eat clean, and that's because unlike YOU and CM, I actually gain fat easily, ok... I can't eat **** and stay lean. Before I started training seriously, I was fat from eating only 2 meals a day.
I've been training for a long time, and working with my diet for a long time, and in order for me to get very lean, I have had to finely tune many different factors. Timing of my meals, carbs and fat ratios (which change throughout the day, I start going carb/protein and then switch to fats/protein with some veggies for carbs... Above all I seek to limit having fat and carbs simultaneously).

Now You say that I had a "breakdown" because of my diet well that makes me look like a panzy. Let me tell you something, that was early 2010, I had not taken a single week off of lifting weights since 2006. I had trained my stats to 230 pounds and 10% bodyfat. I had been going to the gym twice a day. I was stacking like 3 different steroids with T3 and running a perfect diet. I was working my ass off.
And then I injured my chest benching
And that's why I decided to take time off.

Not because I had a rise of estrogen and decided I needed to pig out on ice cream. That stuff is for women. I eat food for it's function, not for its taste. If your diet is one limited by taste then your physique will also be limited.

Case in point, who are the people in this game that are working the hardest to look the best? Probably people who are pro bodybuilders, especially pro natural bodybuilders. Do they eat 6 meals a day or 3 meals a day? Do they think that sugar and oatmeal are interchangable? Do they keep track of their macros or dismiss them as utterly unimportant?

I will concede that to some extent, different types of calories are interchangeable and eating 100% clean can be overrated, but honestly, my take on all of this is that you guys are simply ectomorphic enough to not be very prone to gaining fat, and so when you don't see any fat gains, you take this concept to an extreme. Now the elitism talking: both Zama and CM, you guys both said that you basically lost all your gains from your previous bulking cycles. Now you are both saying that you think eating clean is overrated. This tells me that you are both ectos and lose muscle easily but don't gain much fat. Perhaps you are not in the best position to judge what type of diet is best for clean gains.

I, on the other hand, gain both fat and muscle very easily, and need to tune my diet very finely to look the way that I do.

In the end what works for you doesn't work for me but what works for me probably would work just slightly better for you than the diet you're currently doing.

IMO.
 
ZamaMan

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I only lost some strength on chest and squats. I believe all other excercises stayed at prs.

Didn't know about Your injury. Even still I don't think your gonna be able to eat like a machine forever without burn out. But who knows maybe you will prove me wrong in 10 years and still be going.

The guys who eat super clean often are thebest shapes true, but that's more because of there obsession and dedication not clean eating. No one looks up and researches the info I say, they just say NO your wrong which is the standard response for those that believe there is such a thing as clean foods.

Those of us who have broken the spell know that it's just some foods are calorie dense and some aren't. I never said twinkies are all you need. In fact I said spread your macros across the whole board. Than fill your extra calories with that you love to eat.

Hey don't take an ectos word for it. Research Martin berkham of lean gains. As I mentioned he has maintained 5.5%@195lb for years. No one else on any of these forums can say anything close to that. And guess what he is NO ecto or genetic elite. He was chubby than got real scrowny for modeling, than started to learn how to train and grow.

Oh and for the record he and many of his clients eat 2-3 meals a day and have been able to grow. So you don't need 6 meals. Your body takes alot longer to utilize all the aminos from a big meal. Much much longer than the 3 hours forum rumour.
 
Tomahawk88

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Diet really depends on ur body type. Case in point I dont lose too much raw strength when I take off time from a specific lift even when I go natty but gain fat easily. I think it is safe to say going from deadlifting 675 at 231(on cycle) to deadlifting deadlifting 635 at 221(off cycle PR natty) isnt bad lol. As opposed to anyone here who has to fight tooth and nail just to gain weight natty and drops it quickly along with strength.

Alright time for my fatass to go do cardio so I can eat a little.
 
ZamaMan

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Diet really depends on ur body type. Case in point I dont lose too much raw strength when I take off time from a specific lift even when I go natty but gain fat easily. I think it is safe to say going from deadlifting 675 at 231(on cycle) to deadlifting deadlifting 635 at 221(off cycle PR natty) isnt bad lol. As opposed to anyone here who has to fight tooth and nail just to gain weight natty and drops it quickly along with strength.

Alright time for my fatass to go do cardio so I can eat a little.
Lol nice. I just powered down a huge plate of katsu fried chicken, bunch of rice, and scoops of macaronni salad. U mad? =] lol though I can into dinner under nurouished and had to throw Down some serious calories. Since the fat was super high I just adjust my next meal or two to be no fat and I'm back on track.
 
Tomahawk88

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Lol nice. I just powered down a huge plate of katsu fried chicken, bunch of rice, and scoops of macaronni salad. U mad? =] lol though I can into dinner under nurouished and had to throw Down some serious calories. Since the fat was super high I just adjust my next meal or two to be no fat and I'm back on track.
Ehh not a fan of fried chicken or macaronni salad, but the Asian in me wants to stab u with some chop sticks(that I cant use anyway) :rofl:

But I had a double turkey burger with cheese on thin wheat bread buns with smart balance mayo and real guacamole spread on the buns plus some pico de gallo. And when I finish with cardio I should be having a chicken burrito with similar toppings :food:
 
chocolatemilk

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lol @ this riot...

The only thing that has been important for me is macros at the end of the day, and how I space them with one exception--very little sugar.

But I understand everyone is different.

Yea Unreal I lost partial gains as the normal process of PCT. Once I had to give up the gym temporarily I lost most of my gains as I even stopped eating BIG. I can keep the muscle if I keep at my bulking but it was costing too much time and money in the situation I was in.

Whatever my macros came from hasn't made a difference for me EXCEPT sugar and how I space them. I will stay away from sugar big time. Sugar makes me fat as f*** for some reason.
 
ZamaMan

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Ehh not a fan of fried chicken or macaronni salad, but the Asian in me wants to stab u with some chop sticks(that I cant use anyway) :rofl:

But I had a double turkey burger with cheese on thin wheat bread buns with smart balance mayo and real guacamole spread on the buns plus some pico de gallo. And when I finish with cardio I should be having a chicken burrito with similar toppings :food:
I'm married to an Asian so I will defend my life with my own pair of chop stick! :spank:

oh and it's not Asian style fried chicken not te flavor of fried chicken that Africans like. Lol no offense to anyone, as I like all kinds of fried food. This js more like seasme chicken ya know.

Your burger sounded good btw!!! I want
 
Tomahawk88

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I'm married to an Asian so I will defend my life with my own pair of chop stick! :spank:

oh and it's not Asian style fried chicken not te flavor of fried chicken that Africans like. Lol no offense to anyone, as I like all kinds of fried food. This js more like seasme chicken ya know.

Your burger sounded good btw!!! I want
LMAO I would die laughing at watching a chop stick fight to the death.

Nice now that does make me a bit more envious. Sesame chicken is very good.

I honestly couldnt tell u how good it was because I ate it way too fast to even enjoy it lol. All this cardio has my metabolism revved up so I get super hungry in spurts.
 
ZamaMan

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lol @ this riot...

The only thing that has been important for me is macros at the end of the day, and how I space them with one exception--very little sugar.

But I understand everyone is different.

Yea Unreal I lost partial gains as the normal process of PCT. Once I had to give up the gym temporarily I lost most of my gains as I even stopped eating BIG. I can keep the muscle if I keep at my bulking but it was costing too much time and money in the situation I was in.

Whatever my macros came from hasn't made a difference for me EXCEPT sugar and how I space them. I will stay away from sugar big time. Sugar makes me fat as f*** for some reason.
man you gotta shop better brotha. My food bill is low. I got 20lb lf protein for 100 bucks. I buy those huge cartons of store brand oatmeal for under 2 bucks each. Chicken can be found at safeway for cheap. I buy whole pork shoulder roasts for 69 cents a lb. I bought a 20lb turkey for like 12 bucks after thanksgiving. Big 20lb bags lf ride are cheap too. Man when ou look for deals on store brand stuff it's cheap and buy in bulk.

I once saw bumble tuna cans for 49cents each. I bought I think 75 or so, and I had already had maybe 20 at home. I went back to buy another hundred but sale was over and I was pissed!!! Lesson learned I guss... Oh and I eat a couple cans of tuna a day usually. I love me dem sandwitches.
 
ZamaMan

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LMAO I would die laughing at watching a chop stick fight to the death.

Nice now that does make me a bit more envious. Sesame chicken is very good.

I honestly couldnt tell u how good it was because I ate it way too fast to even enjoy it lol. All this cardio has my metabolism revved up so I get super hungry in spurts.
lol I can't help but picture two yoke IFBB bodybuilders with chopsticks going at it.
 

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