WTF is going on with my strength...

[anabolicRyan1]

I have a problem. And depending on how I'm feeling each day determines how much of a problem it is to me.

In the last 2 weeks and possibly even a few weeks before that to a much smaller degree, I'm losing strength. Not just one rep max strength, but ability to do as many reps at lower weighs as well.
It makes no sense considering the golden rule- first comes strength then comes size.

I'm perplexed.

I'm defiantly more muscular then I was by an impressive margin from a month ago. More hard and also more lean. My weight has fluctuated up and down a few pounds, but generally remains at 172... Another interesting point is that I also look slightly larger. All of these things would usually support an increase in strength or at least maintenance.

I'm on transaderm which I'm guessing could be playing some part in this puzzle.
Slightly increased libido
Drastic increase in aggression
Random feeling of anxiety
Incresed vascularity

All these would point towards the product positively effecting my test level...

My workout style has remained constant
Diet has been the same maybe adding about 20% more carbs. Which ALSO would usually help with strength.

My ideas so far are;
Potentially over training
Loss of estrogen

I wish I had more clues. But the decrease so far is more then 25% across the board. Considering 5% +/- is a big deal, I'm a bit concerned.

If it wasn't for this issue, I'd be thrilled with my results from transaderm.

Anybody with any clue, please chime in. Or if there is any other information I'm probably leaving out, ask.



I posted this in my log as well with no answers so far... I'm kinda bugging out.

According to my calculations the loss of strength is more like 40%... And I'm looking great.
Also should add my joints are terribly dry.

Any ideas or possible causes are appreciated. Never seen something like this.

 

[R1balla]

i read the first two paragraphs and i can answer your question. people usually lose strength as they get leaner. if your leaner than u were a month ago, that could be why. increase ur cals a bit and sleep more and u should see strength gains

 

[anabolicRyan1]

Gotcha.... Hmmmm.


Im dealing with it. I guess I'm actually getting used to it.

I'd have gone directly to this rationale if I was lossing weight, just seeing new muscle makes it rough...

 

[JudgementDay]

Well if have have only lost a few pounds and got leaner since last month, that doesn't explain you losing 25-40% of your strength.

How much have you changed your calorie intake? or any chance you have switched to a low carb diet?

Last question, how long have you been using Transderm? it is pretty new and havn't seen any reviews yet.

 

[anabolicRyan1]

Exactly...

I have increased carbs
Kept cal's about the same if not a bit more.

Been on transaderm for about 17 days. Going to be on for about 42 days total.
Averaging about 7-8 pumps a day. 5 in am. The rest about 4-6 hours later.

I've never seen anything like this and didn't train today considering my only idea is possibly overtraining... :/

 

[JudgementDay]

Exactly...

I have increased carbs
Kept cal's about the same if not a bit more.

Been on transaderm for about 17 days. Going to be on for about 42 days total.
Averaging about 7-8 pumps a day. 5 in am. The rest about 4-6 hours later.

I've never seen anything like this and didn't train today considering my only idea is possibly overtraining... :/

Have you noticed the strength really start lowering more after the transderm or did you find it started before? What the recommended dosing for the Transderm? I remember Dermacrine was 4-5 pumps, DHEA will also increase estrogen, so maybe thats the issue dosing too high... idk :S It's just odd losing that much strength when diet and training is the same while adding in Transderm...

 

[anabolicRyan1]

I thought it has just been in my head... Then when I kicked in transaderm it became very obvious.

Recommended doassage is 5 pumps. But people are even going to ten pumps. One bottle lasts about 8 weeks at 5 per day and I didn't want to do this for 8 weeks.
I'd be a total downer on the product if I wasn't really impressed with my composition/appearance change.

Aggravating as all helll though.

 

[JudgementDay]

I thought it has just been in my head... Then when I kicked in transaderm it became very obvious.

Recommended doassage is 5 pumps. But people are even going to ten pumps. One bottle lasts about 8 weeks at 5 per day and I didn't want to do this for 8 weeks.
I'd be a total downer on the product if I wasn't really impressed with my composition/appearance change.

Aggravating as all helll though.

eh I wouldn't play around with DHEA at that high of a dose, but thats just me, I'd def be taking Formestane or Erase when Estrogen levels are gonna go up.

 

[gymrat827]

Something else is going on here. Ive never heard of anyone losing strength while on PP dermacrine and transderm is the same product aside the emu oil thats makes the lotion dry a bit faster. Also you should have more estrogen in your body since your test levels are increasing, some has to convert into estrogen. When you do begin to lean out you will lose a bit of strength, but not the the degree your speaking about.....

The other things your talking about:


"I'm on transaderm which I'm guessing could be playing some part in this puzzle.
Slightly increased libido
Drastic increase in aggression
Random feeling of anxiety
Incresed vascularity"



are all normal. but the fact that your joints hurt is not, they should be fine since you *should* have more estrogen in your body.

i would increase cals by 15%, more carbs post WO and and extra 10-15g of pro in each meal + a bit more sat. fats. Your already leaning out so I wouldnt worry about more BF. Do that for a wk and see how your strength plays out.

 

[RickRock13]

Diet could be a pretty big part of what your problem is, but you could also be overtraining. Transaderm can only affect your strength positively, and not negatively so I would take that out of the equation. Even with an increase in estrogen your strength would not suffer to the degree that it has. Overtraining is a very big deal, and anyone who has been through it will tell you. I've overtrained before pretty bad before and had a lot of the symptoms you describe. Joints hurting and a big loss of strength was a big part of it. My bench Max at that time suffered huge. I was doing 275 and I barely got up 225 after that. After a good de-load week followed by a rest week, I went back and changed my training a little and I was back to where I was within 3-4 weeks. Just thought I would share that with you from my experience

 

[rms80]

How long are you training, what type of training are you doing, and how many days a week?

 

[Milas]

I have a problem. And depending on how I'm feeling each day determines how much of a problem it is to me.

In the last 2 weeks and possibly even a few weeks before that to a much smaller degree, I'm losing strength. Not just one rep max strength, but ability to do as many reps at lower weighs as well.
It makes no sense considering the golden rule- first comes strength then comes size.

I'm perplexed.

I'm defiantly more muscular then I was by an impressive margin from a month ago. More hard and also more lean. My weight has fluctuated up and down a few pounds, but generally remains at 172... Another interesting point is that I also look slightly larger. All of these things would usually support an increase in strength or at least maintenance.

I'm on transaderm which I'm guessing could be playing some part in this puzzle.
Slightly increased libido
Drastic increase in aggression
Random feeling of anxiety
Incresed vascularity

All these would point towards the product positively effecting my test level...

My workout style has remained constant
Diet has been the same maybe adding about 20% more carbs. Which ALSO would usually help with strength.

My ideas so far are;
Potentially over training
Loss of estrogen

I wish I had more clues. But the decrease so far is more then 25% across the board. Considering 5% +/- is a big deal, I'm a bit concerned.

If it wasn't for this issue, I'd be thrilled with my results from transaderm.

Anybody with any clue, please chime in. Or if there is any other information I'm probably leaving out, ask.



I posted this in my log as well with no answers so far... I'm kinda bugging out.

According to my calculations the loss of strength is more like 40%... And I'm looking great.
Also should add my joints are terribly dry.

Any ideas or possible causes are appreciated. Never seen something like this.

What else are you running, and have you recently used anything else in the last month or 2?

Any injuries or pain? Have you been cutting?

Also, just to get an idea what weight has decreased? Were you lifting like 200lb bench and now only able to do 135lbs?

It sounds very odd, I'm using Transaderm and strength is increasing. I did 10 sets of squats this morning and hit a new PR with 405 x 3, I've been on it for ~8 or so days.

 

[JajaNe20]

Did you change your rep ranges?

 

[bludevil]

Do you feel sick or overall sluggish/tired. Could be mono
Some mono cases are on the milder side and you may not experience the symptoms that are usually seen. Hopefully this isn't the case, but I seen a few guys lose a lot of strength when they were battling mono

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

I thought it has just been in my head... Then when I kicked in transaderm it became very obvious.

Recommended doassage is 5 pumps. But people are even going to ten pumps. One bottle lasts about 8 weeks at 5 per day and I didn't want to do this for 8 weeks.
I'd be a total downer on the product if I wasn't really impressed with my composition/appearance change.

Aggravating as all helll though.

So you are saying these problems started right BEFORE you started taking transaderm? It might not have been the greatest idea to add another variable in the mix if you were starting to have problems bro. When things like that happen it's best to drop what you are taking, re evaluate everything from a lifestyle perspective such as diet/training/sleep etc.. And get back on track.

Everyone here has had great questions and suggestions for you, and I hope you get it figured out man. I can't imagine the transaderm causing this, but it sounds like it started before you started the transaderm.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Sounds like a diet issue as well as a potential form issue. You could also just be in the need of a solid week of rest.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Do you feel sick or overall sluggish/tired. Could be mono
Some mono cases are on the milder side and you may not experience the symptoms that are usually seen. Hopefully this isn't the case, but I seen a few guys lose a lot of strength when they were battling mono

Oh man, I pray for his sake it isn't.

I've never had mono and I rarely get sick, but I have seen fairly significant strength decreases when my immune system is in bad shape. Good idea to mention this so it's at least on the table to be considered.

So you are saying these problems started right BEFORE you started taking transaderm? It might not have been the greatest idea to add another variable in the mix if you were starting to have problems bro. When things like that happen it's best to drop what you are taking, re evaluate everything from a lifestyle perspective such as diet/training/sleep etc.. And get back on track.

Everyone here has had great questions and suggestions for you, and I hope you get it figured out man. I can't imagine the transaderm causing this, but it sounds like it started before you started the transaderm.

I've done things similar to this before. I'll feel like something is happening, but not notice until I make another change and then to me, it's definite.

I agree with Makaveli that adding more variables isn't ideal when trying to pinpoint a problem, but that's hindsight at this point. I would say we all work together to try and deduce what this may be.

Sounds like a diet issue as well as a potential form issue. You could also just be in the need of a solid week of rest.

Valid point on the form concern. I managed to over-develop one side of my back (by virtue of a hip misalignment that I was unaware of) and it screwed up all of my presses - overhead, incline, bench, decline. One side felt significantly weaker than the other and wouldn't follow through on my reps. I had to go back to 135 on bench and work all the way back up (started in the Smith for a few weeks, actually).

OP, is it on ALL lifts? or is it certain lifts? and is it just overall weaker or not being able to get past a certain point in the rep?

 

[StangBanger]

This happened to me... to a degree...

it was 100% nutrition related.

I am not saying its the transaderm in any way but if it started when you started taking it... drop it like a bad habit and see what happens.

I know when my nutrition isnt on point I have bad workouts... learned from the best (y'all here on AM) and now I know how to avoid it.

If not this, then take a deload week or even a week completely off... I came back stronger after a deload week, it was incredible.

 

[JudgementDay]

It's just odd because he said he upped his cals and carbs...and 40% loss in a month is huge when only losing a couple pounds. I havn't tried Transderm yet(but same as old dermacrine), I did use the old topical Dermacrine and I had some nice strength gains from it, so.......someone said something about mono? maybe hit the doctors if your feeling this much weaker.

 

[BBB]

I experienced a similar problems several years ago. My strength was dropping on a regular basis. Perplexed, I ask one of the power lifters in the gym what he recommended. He said "eat more red meat". "All power lifters know red meat makes you stronger". I had been trying to lose weight by substituing protiens shakes for meals (although I hadn't mentioned that to him). I started eating more lean red meat and my strength came back.

 

[Milas]

This happened to me... to a degree...

it was 100% nutrition related.

I am not saying its the transaderm in any way but if it started when you started taking it... drop it like a bad habit and see what happens.

I know when my nutrition isnt on point I have bad workouts... learned from the best (y'all here on AM) and now I know how to avoid it.

If not this, then take a deload week or even a week completely off... I came back stronger after a deload week, it was incredible.

Right on, nutrition is key. Even if OP increased carbs 20%, total calories are where effects are most noticeable. I can have LOTS of energy on TKD/CKD type diets, my key for energy is fat and protein.

I think a deload week would be a good idea too. Drop down to 5 pumps a day, do a deload, and increase calories. If none of that works, try dropping the Transaderm and hold everything else constant. If that doesn't work, see a doctor.

 

[Milas]

I experienced a similar problems severaly years ago. My strength was dropping on a regular basis. Perplexed, I ask one of the power lifters in the gym what he recommended. He said "eat more red meat". "All power lifters know red meat makes you stronger". I had been trying to lose weight by substituing protiens shakes for meals (although I hadn't mentioned that to him). I started eating more lean red meat and my strength came back.

LOL, I was posting and then just read yours. AGREE! Red meat is the best fuel for me, gives me great pumps too (much better than carb loading for me)!

 

[anabolicRyan1]

Well damn the cavalry has arrived.

Thanks everybody. Lots of great feedback.

Seriously guys thanks and sorry this is choppy. I'm using an Ipad to type everything which is pretty annoying although I love it for everything else.


To start with. Yes noticed a decrese started to happen in stages since a got off a questionable iforce supplement about 2-3 months ago. Don't really want to go into it considering I don't have confirming proof.

After that I got on standard test boosters. One being diesel test hardcore. I felt by body normalize. But slowly over time, my strength had still been dropping. It just wasn't very noticeable until I started transaderm. Related or not it's part of the equation.

Other details

My form is basically perfect... I used to train consistently with a body builder who was one of the highest regarded personal trainers in New York..

I've been doing splits. Legs day. Chest tri shoulders. Bi's back. Throwing in abs every few days when I had extra energy.

I usually do 3-5 exercises per muscle. Starting with compound movements working towards isolation. 1-3 sets of each exercise.
Throwing in drop sets. And some other craziness from time to time.

For each exercise I usually start out at the 60% of my max range and get about 8-10 reps. Move up to about 85-90% get 3-4 reps. Then 70% and hit around 7 reps.

I train very intensely... Usually dumbbells not barbell.

My focus is mainly in keeping my body from plateauing or having training get stagnant. Perhaps even too much. I'm constantly throwing in random things like stability lifts incorporating balance.

I always use full range of motion.

My red meat intake has been about the same but now that it's being mentioned, I'm going to eat some chipotle barbacoa (yumm)

I never eat carbs pre workout. Read a great article on growth hormone not being released if carbs are present. I know hgh is mainly produced during rem sleep... And always make sure I'm sleeping a minimum of 7 hours. Usually more. I also take either powerfull or knockout a night after I train hard to increase recovery.

Postworkout... I made a concoction 35g waxy maize. 35g nutra naturals. 7g glutamine 7g lucine 2g LCLT carnitine
Which I'm particularly fond of.

I don't think I'm sick although I have no energy at all sometimes. I never get sick. Also no insurance...

As far as strength goes.

I was as about 225 barbell bench. 225 squat
Machine leg press 375+
60lb dumbbell shoulder press
40lb curl
12 REAL pull ups
17 dips.

I'd feel blessed at the moment to get 185 up on bench or squat
I was machine leg pressing 185 2 days ago and it was a challenge...
I was doing single arm dumbbell shoulder press a few days ago after reading an AM email article about strength and got two reps in on a 45 on my right side and couldn't even get it up once on my left. (I'm usually very symmetrical)

 

[anabolicRyan1]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/173797-one-small-step-6.html

This is a link to my log where ive recently done a ****y job logging anything.

For the most part I never even count reps. Lack of logging makes this even harder to figure out.


I think I'm going to switch to full body workouts or something for a few weeks. Really light weight easy on the joints.

Maybe even cardio days. (gross)

 

[MidwestBeast]

I hope everything is all right, bud. Honestly, even without insurance, I'd kind of want some blood work done. The only reason I say that is when you say that several months ago you noticed things a little off (even if it was minimal compared to now) and that they stabilized a bit when running test boosters. To me, it sounds like something isn't completely right (I don't know if it's naturally lower test or what). I'll be following closely to make sure everything is all right and see what you find out.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Your cortisol may be too low. Just a suggestion. How do your joints feel?

 

[mattrag]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/173797-one-small-step-6.html

This is a link to my log where ive recently done a ****y job logging anything.

For the most part I never even count reps. Lack of logging makes this even harder to figure out.


I think I'm going to switch to full body workouts or something for a few weeks. Really light weight easy on the joints.

Maybe even cardio days. (gross)

I hear you on the lack of logging. I need to log my workouts too... sux not knowing where you were/are...

 

[Milas]

Was this the strength level you were at before taking the iForce supplement? i.e., could this be a PCT gone bad and strength fell off from that, or HPTA never recovered? You have a few indicators of low testosterone, though Transaderm should help it's no replacement for natural test, but I'm just reading into things.

The numbers you're posting aren't quite 40% decrease, though I know it's disappointing. Part of it may be related to my above question, part of it may be due to cutting (if you have been cutting), and part may be due to overtraining.

By the way, pretty good post workout drink there, how does it taste/mix?

 

[anabolicRyan1]

Joints feel like a cement mixer.


I've always thought I have naturally low test... Never had any bloods done. ::exhale::
Problem is, I haven't given my body a lot of time off from supplements that effect hormone levels. I know it's stupid. But I tipically get much better results while taking supplements that tweak my levels even if only a bit. Even things like trib and mega dosing fish oil work great for me.


The 40% decrese is more based on overall strength. Even with my basic lifts at lower weights I'm able to do almost half the amount of reps.

My strength is slightly lower there where I was before starting the iforce product. But that was months ago. I hate to sound like a spoiled brat, but I'm accustomed to very quick gains.

I do understand nutrition and workout strategy...

So question. I was under the impression that estrogen actually helps strength. That's why I thought my estrogen is low along with joint issues. The dhea obviously adds to many hormone levels including estrogen, but their are natural AI's in transaderm which should help keep it down.

This whole thing is a fing rubik's cube.

 

[Milas]

It is much more challenging to manage when playing around with your hormone levels too. How old are you?

 

[anabolicRyan1]

25

Also possibly relevant. I've always had slightly puffy nips. Not related to anything besides puberty I'd guess.
It gets slightly better or worse randomly. Prolactin... Estrogen... Lame.

The more I think about it the more I need to just get a full hormone profile done. But considering I don't have baseline numbers I'm not sure it would help me.

 

[Milas]

Baseline or not, it'll tell you where you are. Check out PrivateMDLabs and get the female panel (cheaper and gets full info on FSH, LH, E2, T, etc.)

 

[RickRock13]

A full hormone panel would be a good idea whether its related to your problem or not. It will take a lot of things out of the equation though like low test, high estrogen, cortisol, etc.. .

 

[mattrag]

I'd suggest in getting a full panel done. Save you lotta money in rescue supps you think you might need.

 

[anabolicRyan1]

Ok ok so I need to get that done. Erg. I'll log onto that site and see how expensive it is tomorrow.

My workout yesterday felt great. Cut down all weight to about 50% w/ high reps.

I have another point I can add to the field. I never ever stop at a given rep number. I train too one rep beyond exhaustion every single set. I say beyond exhaustion because I'll allow my last rep each set to be less then perfect form. Maybe that's finally catching up to me?

Anybody else also use my strategy?


In other news, my vascularity is incredible on this product. I'm looking great. I thought this product might give slight bloating because it's impossible to control what the dHEA preg will turn into. No bloat at all so far.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Ok ok so I need to get that done. Erg. I'll log onto that site and see how expensive it is tomorrow.

My workout yesterday felt great. Cut down all weight to about 50% w/ high reps.

I have another point I can add to the field. I never ever stop at a given rep number. I train too one rep beyond exhaustion every single set. I say beyond exhaustion because I'll allow my last rep each set to be less then perfect form. Maybe that's finally catching up to me?

Anybody else also use my strategy?


In other news, my vascularity is incredible on this product. I'm looking great. I thought this product might give slight bloating because it's impossible to control what the dHEA preg will turn into. No bloat at all so far.

Great to hear that you are looking lean and mean on it bro! As far as training til failure, yah def not every single set and every workout. It's a technique to use sparingly to shock your muscles. Continued exposure to it is just going to tear down your CNS and lead to overtraining very quickly.

 

[Milas]

The full panel should be around $70 or so for the female panel.

I'd also try a de-load week and then see how you feel the following week. Do you know how to run a deload week?

 

[MidwestBeast]

The full panel should be around $70 or so for the female panel.

I'd also try a de-load week and then see how you feel the following week. Do you know how to run a deload week?

I'd also definitely suggest a deload week with the style of training you've been using.

I almost always train for set reps/sets. I push myself for more weight each time, but if 12 is what I'm going for, I stop once I hit it. The only time I don't is when I'm doing a Max-OT session, but those are every other week at best and usually less than that. And with those, my total number of sets are so low that it doesn't catch up to me. I can't imagine training the way you described on a regular basis lol.

 

[anabolicRyan1]

Not going to lie. My "ego" hurts. I've tried this way on and off my whole life. I attribute getting most of the great results I've gotten in the past to my training style. ... It also may show why I alway burn out after getting to a certain point. Causing me to take months sometimes almost a year off with no motivation. This in combination with being stressed the F out of course.

If this really is the cause I'm not taking it well. Going balls to the wall, per say has been for more then just results it's been some strange type of therapy for me.

I don't even know how to train any other way. And it's crazy to think, because anytime I've trained friends of mine, regardless of experience level they get great results with my program. I'm going to have to learn about deloading or whatever.

Cause even now my last two trips to the gym have been more successful in my eyes because I've lowered the weight substantially, but I still can't stop myself until I'm dying at the end of each set. Erg.

It's funny cause in the gym lately it's obvious I'm bigger. And I'm walking around using just a barbell with no plates for some lifts. This whole thing is ridiculous. I'll be taking the pictures late tonight and posting tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Milas]

Just look up the 5/3/1 deload week, lots of good info there.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Don't get too bogged down, bro. Letting your ego get in the way is often the biggest challenge in this game. I'm not saying you can't train intense, man. My workouts are very intense and I feel great from them, but there's a limit to them, too. I don't stay in the gym for hours on end and my total reps are usually less than 200, other than on leg days.

You can do this.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Yeah man.....I usually do 5-6 exercises at 5-6 sets a piece at 8-10 reps a set. Try looking in to periodization techniques.

 

[anabolicRyan1]

Well damn. First day of my life stopping before exhaustion... I don't even feel like I was working out. Felt like a great cardio session. Stopping even 1 rep before full breakdown feels so strange for me. I don't know how I could have completely overlooked something like this.I was able to cut down the time between sets to about 30 seconds. Usually I have to wait about 1minute 30...I'll be looking up everything related to the 5/3/1 and periodization techniques tonight and will be implementing on the asap.Really hoping this helps... I did a few 25 rep squat sets with just the bar... I'm really not the guy in the gym trying to curl 40's with his back and weight has never been the main focus for me, but this is getting stupid.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Making a change like that definitely feels weird. There's no doubt about it. The first time I used Max-OT, I couldn't grasp 4-6 reps and only 2-3 sets. Even lifting as heavy as I could, it didn't feel like I'd worked out enough. But, once again, as soon as you get past the ego, a lot of great things can be done. Keep at it, bro.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

You can always go get bloodwork done and see what's going on in the background too

 

[Milas]

Glad to hear things are improving for you. Keep with it, spend a week deloading, then get back to killing it and you WILL be stronger!

 

[anabolicRyan1]

Well here it is. I'm actually semi embarrassed about the picture.
Sorry about the quality cellphone pictures are all I've got at the moment. Makes it really hard to see definition. I'll be trying to get my hands on a real camera next round.

Also my hairiness makes me not really photogenic...probably why I put off taking pictures. In order to look ripped or big while hairy I have to make big gains.

I also can't find my measuring tape but when I do I'll post some measurements.

Considering all the craziness going on with me I'm just happy that I am still putting on some size. I'd estimate about 1/4 inch of growth in my arms. Some growth across my chest and shoulders as well and I'd say I lost about half an inch around my waist.

Overall very happy.

This products effects are extremely noticeable. I always tweak the dosage of anything up and down. I guess to find my sweet spot. If I use more then 5 squirts in the am I feel like I'm going go kill people. I would defiantly say it adds elevated focus/concentration And if I skip my second dosage of 3 squirts 5 hours later I notice I'm "coming down" by the end of the day. 8 a day seems to work perfect for me. Since the product is so easy to apply it's easy to do whenever.

I'm just about half way through my run of transaderm and I'm hoping my results stay constant. I will report back with final review when finished.

Damn this stuff lasts long.

Posting this here as well... Really thankful for all the help and support guys.

I still need to do the hormone panel... Living where I do in manhattan. Rent is expensive as you could imagine. I'm in the middle of saving for a move next month and that's probably making it easier for me to rationalize why I don't need it right now. Erg.

I'm going go stick with these much easier workouts. Adding more frequency to my training for the next few weeks I think.

Another question for all the muscle nerds(compliment) out there... Anybody have a belief system of how long you wait before your post workout shake? I've heard and read vastly different things. Including a very famous old school bodybuilder who decided to not eat or drink a shake for hour after train to keep test levels high.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I understand the money thing, man. We've all been there for the most part. Whether you do it now, or when you're off of everything, I would do it, though. It's worth it just to know where everything stands.

As for the post workout shake, I've heard and done multiple things. I've slammed it immediately after working out or done it about 20-30 minutes after lifting. I, personally, never noticed a difference in the two. But I do that and then consume a whole food meal of protein and complex carbs about an hour after the shake.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Posting this here as well... Really thankful for all the help and support guys.

I still need to do the hormone panel... Living where I do in manhattan. Rent is expensive as you could imagine. I'm in the middle of saving for a move next month and that's probably making it easier for me to rationalize why I don't need it right now. Erg.

I'm going go stick with these much easier workouts. Adding more frequency to my training for the next few weeks I think.

Another question for all the muscle nerds(compliment) out there... Anybody have a belief system of how long you wait before your post workout shake? I've heard and read vastly different things. Including a very famous old school bodybuilder who decided to not eat or drink a shake for hour after train to keep test levels high.

Well, I'll take the nerd compliment, muscle I'm not so sure about these days.

Anywho, personally I do about 15 minutes or so for a PWO shake. If doing a shake ONLY, I make sure to get a solid meal that i need to chew about an hour later.

The 1 hour theory is from what I have always understood to keep your GH levels high, not test. Eating a high carb PWO meal blunts the GH release. So it's a catch 22, do you get in on your pwo window with the carbs to use the insulin to immediately push the nutrients into your muscles? Or do you somewhat sacrifice that window to keep up the GH release.

I wouldn't sacrifice it personally. Unless it was a cardio only session, in which case I might feel ok going an hour afterwards, but not after a weight training session.

That's my two cents.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Well, I'll take the nerd compliment, muscle I'm not so sure about these days.

Anywho, personally I do about 15 minutes or so for a PWO shake. If doing a shake ONLY, I make sure to get a solid meal that i need to chew about an hour later.

The 1 hour theory is from what I have always understood to keep your GH levels high, not test. Eating a high carb PWO meal blunts the GH release. So it's a catch 22, do you get in on your pwo window with the carbs to use the insulin to immediately push the nutrients into your muscles? Or do you somewhat sacrifice that window to keep up the GH release.

I wouldn't sacrifice it personally. Unless it was a cardio only session, in which case I might feel ok going an hour afterwards, but not after a weight training session.

That's my two cents.

Good info right here.

I typically just do 40-60g of whey isolate in water (+ 5g creatine monohydrate and 5g glutamine, just because I have it). So, there aren't any carbs coming in and natural GH stays high. If I'm focusing on bulking, I'd add in the dextrose or WMS and not worry about the natural GH. No carbs when cutting, carbs when bulking (assuming it all fits your macro needs).

I don't know how powerful natural GH really is, so I wouldn't worry much about blunting it if I'm trying to grow after a heavy lifting session.