Winy/Var/Clen Cycle

[Thantis]

I'm going to be running these together and am curious if I should start with the clen right away or add it towards the end. my doses are as follows
Win- 20mg everyday 6 wks
Var- 20mg every day 6 wks
Clen- 1-3 days 20mcg and bump it up by 10mcg every 3 days after for a total of 30 days ending at 110mcg

The pct I was recommended is - Nolvadex 40mg 45days, Clomid 100mg 30 days, is this too much?

I'm 5 days into cutting my bf% down and am feeling super drained in the gym with little strength lots of muscle fatigue no drive which is the main reason I'm going to take these now to get down to my desired % while keeping strength and potentially adding some lean muscle then ill be on tes for 16wks after pct.

I'm cutting at 1750 cal/day 160g protein 185g carb 60g fats, currently 207lbs(dropped mostly water weight so far) goal 175lbs

 

[Smont]

Your taking a couple orals with no testosterone, that's gonna eventually tank your energy and we'll being but that hasn't even started yet. Right now you feel that way because your on a starvation diet that's fitting for 140lb female that works out regularly. You need more food and in order to eat more food and still lose weight then that means you need more cardio to justify the calorie bump. Your trying to take steroids like fat burners and your doing **** ass backwards.

 

[Smont]

How long have your calories been under 2000?

 

[New guy]

Clen- 1-3 days 20mg and bump it up by 10mg every 3 days after for a total of 30 days ending at 110mg

Dude please for the love of God tell me you’re not gonna take 20mg of clen. I’m sure this is a typo but I have to clarify just in case

 

[Smont]

Dude please for the love of God tell me you’re not gonna take 20mg of clen. I’m sure this is a typo but I have to clarify just in case

It's a typo

 

[Smont]

Dude please for the love of God tell me you’re not gonna take 20mg of clen. I’m sure this is a typo but I have to clarify just in case

You would have to take like 12 bottles a day to take 20 mg

 

[Smont]

I'm exaggerating what you get my point you couldn't even accidentally take it it's not possible it would cost you thousands of dollars to run one clen cycle

 

[Smont]

Man I gotta work on punctuation lol

 

[KvanH]

Your taking a couple orals with no testosterone, that's gonna eventually tank your energy and we'll being but that hasn't even started yet. Right now you feel that way because your on a starvation diet that's fitting for 140lb female that works out regularly. You need more food and in order to eat more food and still lose weight then that means you need more cardio to justify the calorie bump. Your trying to take steroids like fat burners and your doing **** ass backwards.

This. Also no reason to add Clen from the start, especially with OP's startig point. And 32 lbs weight loss in 6 weeks? While retaining or even hopes of gaining some lean mass? More like 20-30 weeks.

That 100 mg of Clomid stacked with Nolva is also nuts.

 

[Smont]

I didn't see the part about dropping 30 lbs while maintaining or gaining muscle, that's w pipe dream in 6 weeks. If your dropping more then 2lbs a week it's a gurentee your loosing muscle unless your morbidly obese and new to working out

 

[Thantis]

How long have your calories been under 2000?

6 days so far, and im not expecting to get down to 175 in 6wks. I know even with this its atleast 3 months+ but i'd like to shred some of this faster than just regular deficit eating will do while keeping energy/strength which is supposedly what winny will do with the thermogenic effect it causes.

I don't do a lot of regular cardio I cant use ellipticals or treds due to lower facet issues so I lift heavy and add in some HIIT.

 

[Smont]

6 days so far, and im not expecting to get down to 175 in 6wks. I know even with this its atleast 3 months+ but i'd like to shred some of this faster than just regular deficit eating will do while keeping energy/strength which is supposedly what winny will do with the thermogenic effect it causes.

I don't do a lot of regular cardio I cant use ellipticals or treds due to lower facet issues so I lift heavy and add in some HIIT.

There's nothing really thermogenic about Winny. It's going to do a little for fat loss but not much more then anything else will. Fat loss is mostly diet and cardio and if you can't do regular cardio because of the reason you gave I'm going to assume you're not training your lower body either and that's also going to dramatically hinder how much fat loss you can achieve because you burn a ton of calories draining your legs.

Everyone is brainwashed into thinking that there is bulking and cutting steroids, but there's not. At the end of the day every single steroid is just amplifying your effort and your diet.

That's why the guys in Arnold Schwarzenegger's era got contest shredded on Deca and dbol.

Cus it's about diet and cardio.

Now for some reason your wheelchair bound or something then it is what it is. But avoiding lower body and cardio is a gigantic wrench in your game plan.

 

[Thantis]

There's nothing really thermogenic about Winny. It's going to do a little for fat loss but not much more then anything else will. Fat loss is mostly diet and cardio and if you can't do regular cardio because of the reason you gave I'm going to assume you're not training your lower body either and that's also going to dramatically hinder how much fat loss you can achieve because you burn a ton of calories draining your legs.

Everyone is brainwashed into thinking that there is bulking and cutting steroids, but there's not. At the end of the day every single steroid is just amplifying your effort and your diet.

That's why the guys in Arnold Schwarzenegger's era got contest shredded on Deca and dbol.

Cus it's about diet and cardio.

Now for some reason your wheelchair bound or something then it is what it is. But avoiding lower body and cardio is a gigantic wrench in your game plan.

I dont avoid lower body at all I just cant use certain machines due to strain on facets. All of my leg day is mostly compound exercises with heavy weight

 

[Smont]

I'm stumped, I don't understand how you can squatter leg press or do lunges or anything like that but not be able to use an elliptical or a stair machine or walk on an incline on the treadmill at a fast pace.

For what it's worth I do 90% of my cardio on a heavy bag or sparring so I'm not really doing traditional cardio either.

Stairs
Jump rope
Battle ropes
Punching bag
Rowing machine
Swimming laps
Playing basketball

Find some kind of way to get cardio with a elevated heart rate and breaking a light sweat, your heart will thank you and your fat loss will happen much, much faster

 

[KvanH]

Can you run? That's the easiest cardio right there.

 

[Hyde]

Came in thinking this was a hot bikini prep when I read the cycle; mildly disappointed.

Put the Clen on the back side so you can use that instead of lowering calories as much.

Between your diet and the lack of testosterone (or estrogen) you’re really going to feel like ass, man. I’d at least throw a few pumps of Dermacrine in there if you aren’t going to use any test.

Don’t need the Clomid at all with 40mg of Nolva for 6 weeks. That might be a little much/long as well, even just that. Especially if you are just going to cycle again right after anyway.

I think you’re going to unsustainably rebound after the cycle and diet as things are structured, so I hope this is for a show or something and not hoping to actually maintain at the new calorie and bodyfat baseline. Because it’s too tight for too long.

 

[Smont]

Came in thinking this was a hot bikini prep when I read the cycle; mildly disappointed.

Put the Clen on the back side so you can use that instead of lowering calories as much.

Between your diet and the lack of testosterone (or estrogen) you’re really going to feel like ass, man. I’d at least throw a few pumps of Dermacrine in there if you aren’t going to use any test.

Don’t need the Clomid at all with 40mg of Nolva for 6 weeks. That might be a little much/long as well, even just that. Especially if you are just going to cycle again right after anyway.

I think you’re going to unsustainably rebound after the cycle and diet as things are structured, so I hope this is for a show or something and not hoping to actually maintain at the new calorie and bodyfat baseline. Because it’s too tight for too long.

When I opened it originally I was thinking the same. Thought it was gonna be a girl running around 10mg each with a boatload of clen and I was coming in to give her second thoughts about winni lol

 

[KvanH]

Came in thinking this was a hot bikini prep when I read the cycle; mildly disappointed.

Put the Clen on the back side so you can use that instead of lowering calories as much.

Between your diet and the lack of testosterone (or estrogen) you’re really going to feel like ass, man. I’d at least throw a few pumps of Dermacrine in there if you aren’t going to use any test.

Don’t need the Clomid at all with 40mg of Nolva for 6 weeks. That might be a little much/long as well, even just that. Especially if you are just going to cycle again right after anyway.

I think you’re going to unsustainably rebound after the cycle and diet as things are structured, so I hope this is for a show or something and not hoping to actually maintain at the new calorie and bodyfat baseline. Because it’s too tight for too long.

1st cycle - Questions - AnabolicMinds.com

I've got a few questions since this is still new to me as I did one cycle a long time ago and haven't tried again since. I'm going to be taking Tri-Tes 400 - TesEnanthate - 100mg TesCypionate - 100mg TesDecanoate - 200mg for 12 wks 1ML per week 2 pins @ .5ml in the delt. I'm 33 - 5'10 - 210lb...

anabolicminds.com

 

[Smont]

With that being said. I never found winni useful much under 50mg. For men that is, I believe I did 30 stacked before. Tried doing 25 or 30 solo and I think week 3 I bumped to 50 and then the last 2 weeks at 100. Just saying

 

[Hyde]

1st cycle - Questions - AnabolicMinds.com

I've got a few questions since this is still new to me as I did one cycle a long time ago and haven't tried again since. I'm going to be taking Tri-Tes 400 - TesEnanthate - 100mg TesCypionate - 100mg TesDecanoate - 200mg for 12 wks 1ML per week 2 pins @ .5ml in the delt. I'm 33 - 5'10 - 210lb...

anabolicminds.com

Not reading all of that, but that’s a badass samurai tattoo.

With that being said. I never found winni useful much under 50mg. For men that is, I believe I did 30 stacked before. Tried doing 25 or 30 solo and I think week 3 I bumped to 50 and then the last 2 weeks at 100. Just saying

No lie I’d try 50-100mg S4 stacked with that Var in his case before going with Winny and taking that enormous HDL hit and tendon effects.

 

[KvanH]

Not reading all of that, but that’s a badass samurai tattoo.

Yeah, was just for more insight on OP's goals and situation, since you asked, if this cut/cycle is for a show or something. The info is pretty much on the starting post.

 

[Thantis]

Came in thinking this was a hot bikini prep when I read the cycle; mildly disappointed.

Put the Clen on the back side so you can use that instead of lowering calories as much.

Between your diet and the lack of testosterone (or estrogen) you’re really going to feel like ass, man. I’d at least throw a few pumps of Dermacrine in there if you aren’t going to use any test.

Don’t need the Clomid at all with 40mg of Nolva for 6 weeks. That might be a little much/long as well, even just that. Especially if you are just going to cycle again right after anyway.

I think you’re going to unsustainably rebound after the cycle and diet as things are structured, so I hope this is for a show or something and not hoping to actually maintain at the new calorie and bodyfat baseline. Because it’s too tight for too long.

haha yeah no bikini for me sorry just trying to power through some lbs before bulking in the shortest time, I know its not the "right" way to do it but im an impatient sob and ive got some summer plans id like to shred and bulk for.

i'll drop the clomid thanks for the advise!

 

[Hyde]

haha yeah no bikini for me sorry just trying to power through some lbs before bulking in the shortest time, I know its not the "right" way to do it but im an impatient sob and ive got some summer plans id like to shred and bulk for.

i'll drop the clomid thanks for the advise!

Be careful how high you go on the Clen - I would only go up when you get used to a dosage & need to increase caloric expenditure further. It’s not good for the heart so you don’t want to take more than necessary; if you can get what you need at 60mcg then leave it there. I would also split it into 2 administrations per day if possible for your heart’s sake.

Like 40mcg in the morning first thing and 20mcg in the afternoon if I was using 60/day, so my heart rate doesn’t get so high.

And supplement with 5g taurine daily. Clen depletes taurine in heart tissue.

I still don’t like this cycle.

 

[Thantis]

I still don’t like this cycle.

What would you change / add?

 

[CasperKValentine]

What would you change / add?

I would agree with the others here. First, no reason to be taking Clen at your current point. That should be used when down in single digit bodyfat if the desire is to get even more shredded. Where you are at, lets say you are using Clen and you drop 10 lbs. Same diet without Clen and you drop probably 8 lbs. I mean in another 2 weeks you could lose just as much as you would on Clen. Winney is typically used for contest prep. You are nowhere close to that. Your taking 2 orals, the cycle is only 6 weeks. No drastic results are going to come in that short of time. Man, if you just want to hold on to muscle mass while you drop weight a simple 12-14 weeks of 300-400mg of test. But if you insist on running a cycle that will do less for your goals, be more harmful health wise, on top of costing a lot more go for it.

 

[Hyde]

I would agree with the others here. First, no reason to be taking Clen at your current point. That should be used when down in single digit bodyfat if the desire is to get even more shredded. Where you are at, lets say you are using Clen and you drop 10 lbs. Same diet without Clen and you drop probably 8 lbs. I mean in another 2 weeks you could lose just as much as you would on Clen. Winney is typically used for contest prep. You are nowhere close to that. Your taking 2 orals, the cycle is only 6 weeks. No drastic results are going to come in that short of time. Man, if you just want to hold on to muscle mass while you drop weight a simple 12-14 weeks of 300-400mg of test. But if you insist on running a cycle that will do less for your goals, be more harmful health wise, on top of costing a lot more go for it.

I personally disagree with reserving Clen for getting into contest shape, as I feel the dose is the poison and you can get a lot out of a moderate dose when employed thoughtfully. And that’s just my opinion of course.

I also believe that there’s no significant difference in him taking 20mg of both orals vs a more standard dose of 40-50mg of just one of them.

That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with the general mindset. A few hundred mg of test will be the healthiest, best way to retain lean mass for this general cutting scenario. The test can be run longer, he’ll feel infinitely better, & it will be way better for his longterm cardiovascular health. Clen could be optionallly added later on at the point at a point where no further caloric drop or cardio increase is desired, but as previously mentioned the big picture here is generally getting fat off and not peak leanness for a specific temporary event.

 

[FloridaMan]

My only advice here is not to take clen ever... I like my heart to not slowly die

I'm not opposed to oral only cycles, I've run my far share. My advice there is to extend the cycle to 8 weeks minimum