I heard a lot about it when it very first came out, but no new logs or info from more users in this or the IBE forum. It would be nice if anyone who tried it could post a summary of their experience with it on this thread.
I know it has for me...I'm about to run an injectable cycle instead within the next few months..still deciding though.I think that price has kept people from buying this.
Really? Do you have any links from users' reports? I'd like to read them.I am not sure where you are heiring this from but it does compare if not better
okay, thx for the help...the only person I know of on this board that said the inject was better was riskbar they have lots of logs on most of the other boards give me a few min. to gether them up and I will post them here.
IBE, excuse my ignorance, but does this mean you're testing people that are pre-disposed to diabetes? And then seeing wether or not the OT-1 will induce diabetes in them? Probably not...lol...but I would like to see something like this done as diabetes also runs in the family and I'm being very cautious with IGF-1 useage for this very reason...We can tell you that we are awaiting a diseased study outcome involving “Streptocytosin (STZ)� induced diabetes study that yields NO “Back Ground Noise� that will determine 3 new alternative compositions.
Hey, I know. Hows about doing a 50% discount to AM members? If not, then hows about just me??the price thing...LOL..that is our biggest worries also. we are working on trying to get the price down now but is very hard at the moment
and me tooHey, I know. Hows about doing a 50% discount to AM members? If not, then hows about just me??
A lot of people swore that MDien was the **** too. Turns out it was just ****.Granted it's everybody's right to say that there's no science backing up these claims or they don't see how it could possibly work, they don't buy it etc. How can you ignore all of the logs posted all over the web of this stuff stating the igf effects of being hypo, significant fat burning while putting on muscle? I was skeptical myself, especially with 40mcgs being the starting dose for injections, how could this stuff match up even if it did work without taking 1 1/2 or 2 x's the dose? But the proof is in the pudding as they say, I'm bigger than I've ever been while losing a lot of fat. If I don't eat enough carbs, I get hypo. Does it suck that IBE can't tell us more about this stuff? Yes! But at the same time, how many people would buy a product off of the manufacturer's hype instead of real world feedback?
skepticism is good, especially in the supp. industry. It's healthy, and to be expected. I'm sure upstanding co's such as Avant, DS, IBE and others do not take offense, because they know better than anyone the nature of the industry, and the fact that there is no shortage of crap which is hawked to the unsuspecting or wishful-thinking consumer. And let's face it, most of us have been burned more than a couple times with useless crap.I agree, Bobo, it does say a lot when you say that it works. I couldn't find anything from you about doubting that it works, though.
I guess my problem is that when I see a lot of BS coming from someone, I have a hard time buying what they are selling. And I see a lot of BS coming from IBE, both about the science and the legal aspects.
Maybe it does work. If it does, great. I'll try some sometime. However, for now, I'm skeptical, as are a lot of people.
/karp
In the Avant thread this is what I said:I agree, Bobo, it does say a lot when you say that it works. I couldn't find anything from you about doubting that it works, though.
I guess my problem is that when I see a lot of BS coming from someone, I have a hard time buying what they are selling. And I see a lot of BS coming from IBE, both about the science and the legal aspects.
Maybe it does work. If it does, great. I'll try some sometime. However, for now, I'm skeptical, as are a lot of people.
/karp
Oral inefficiency (as it peratins to drugs) occurs when it actually has to pass the GI tract. They have already stated that the method of absortion doesn't even resch the stomach. It resembles more a sublingual delivery than oral delivery.2) If 40mcg is a low (for some), but an effective IM or sub-Q dose (very high bioavailability), how could 40mcg possibly be enough orally administered, based on the relative inefficiency of oral absorbtion?
That said, I am a continuing IBE consumer. Just received an order today, as a matter of fact...
And I still don't understand any of it. Its nothing that I have ever read about or even thought about (and still haven't)Thanks Bobo for the honest answer. but for everyone here we told Bobo in private in how it really works but we can't not tell the whole world yet so take it for what it's worth. (EVERYONE WILL SEE THE SCIENCE THIS YEAR JUST BE PATIENCE)
Fair enough. I won't call bullshit on the scientific stuff.In the Avant thread this is what I said:
"You can discuss the science or lack of it all you like, I've already said I don't see any science supporting this at all. Is that fuckin good enough for you?"
This was in response to someone stating that IBE was scamming people and logs over here were biased because they were a sponsor.
When the first threads started coming on here I stated that I thought it was crap as well because my opinion was based on that the drug has to pass the GI tract. Most of threads were deleted before IBE became a sponsor as they became more of an advertisement than information on the product.
What you call bullshit could be someone protecting their delivery system. That type of protection is increasing ever since the ban and in companies that never did it before.
If you want to questions supplement companies about their claims I can give you about 20 of them that do a much worse job. I hope you show the same vigor woth them as you do IBE.
As far as questionong them its been done to death on this board and on Avant. They have offerend people kits to try and they were refused. They offered to put up their product for criticism. If it didn't work, the logs would show it. I however did try it and it worked as advertised. Take that for what its worht but when something DOES work as advertised then I have a problem when someone states its "bullshit". If it didn't work, I would say so. I have zero to gain and everything to lose from pushing a product that doesn't work. (i'm not really pushing it either)
Be skeptical all you want but please don't say something is bullshit just because its not explained thoroughly enough for you. If you don't like the explanation, you can state that all you want and let them know but please refrain from saying its "bullshit".
Threads end up closed and people get pissed off and I don't want that kind of drama here. I see enough of that crap at other boards.
that makes a great deal of sense, actually. And now that I think of it, it does seem more like a sublingual application. Still, though, you squirt it on the back of your tongue, swish it around-the gum area, sublingual area, then swallow. Hopefully this means rapid and effective oral absorbtion. Swallowing the balance of the stuff, however, still suggests that some goes down the hatch and isn't orally absorbed. That's my only concern. NOT that it doesn't work. So my own hypothesis is this:Oral inefficiency (as it peratins to drugs) occurs when it actually has to pass the GI tract. They have already stated that the method of absortion doesn't even resch the stomach. It resembles more a sublingual delivery than oral delivery.
And that would also answer your first question as amino acids in general are destroyed by the gut.
I understand that but again patents are public records, so if anything is patented the information contained in the patent is not protected. Copying the invention described in the patent is of course prohibited, but the information itself is available as a matter of public record. There are millions of patents on the PTO website, all containing (as patents are required to do) a description sufficiently detailed enough to enable someone to "practice" the invention.Bro we don't own the technology so we do not have the right to release anything if it was up to us we would have released everthing along time ago
Well, nobody said you didn't have to take the recommended dose. FOr the most part according the many reports, 30-40mcg has a decent efect on people when injected. I used 40mcg when injecting and the results were about the same.that makes a great deal of sense, actually. And now that I think of it, it does seem more like a sublingual application. Still, though, you squirt it on the back of your tongue, swish it around-the gum area, sublingual area, then swallow. Hopefully this means rapid and effective oral absorbtion. Swallowing the balance of the stuff, however, still suggests that some goes down the hatch and isn't orally absorbed. That's my only concern. NOT that it doesn't work. So my own hypothesis is this:
1) OT will prove to be effective, as IBE has suggested.
2) The (oral) dosing for OT will still need to be increased to match the effectiveness of 40mcg of IM or sub-Q.
Again, I am no scientist. I am merely speculating.
I don't think they are trying to insult you at all, merely stating that is damn complicated and from hearing some of the explanation, it is, by a large margin. I never, for any reason, would research this area when it comes to bodybuilding, nutrution, physiology, endocrinology, etc....I'm sure you've also noticed that IBE tends to respond to people questioning him by insulting them and telling them that they don't understand.
/karp
That is insulting.so please just because you can't understand it then don't say it can't work.
I understand. A confidentiality or nondisclosure agrreement (NDA) right?If they don't own the technology then they are going by the request of that owner to not release information and that would include the patent number which would allow you to find that info. It simply isn't in their hands.
You may questions everything but you cna't get upset when someone can't give you the answer. You have to accept that, believe what you want based on the available information, then move on until the situation warrants revisiting.
Well, I know I don't pay that much for injectable IGF-1. I haven't used before, but when/if I do I won't be paying that much. How do you know what other people pay? Not everybody buys from MR. There are HUNDREDS of other places to get IGF-1. And 200 bucks for injectable is still pretty steep compared to the numerous other research carriers.****DO NOT ASK WHERE I BUY FROM EITHER PEOPLE!!!**** So obviously you haven't done the math...lol.It really irks me how much of a big deal guys are making about the price here.
Its roughly the same as a $200 1MG bottle of injectable, assuming that you can get 23 days out of a 1mg bottle (which isn't easy.) the price is the same. When the price gets dropped to $100 I think it will be right where it needs to be, but all of you asking IBE to cut the price in half are being ridiculously unrealistic and obviously haven't even done the math to compare it to an injectable pricewise.
I'm not trying to antagonize anyone in particular here but this really needed to be said.
No its not, its just you arguing for the sake of arguing. You can't get the answers YOU want so it irks you and you have to take it out on them.That is insulting.
Not only that, it's a counterattack designed to take attention off of him and discredit me to put me on the defensive.
/karp