test base smesh base... you don't need a test base unless you know lethargy is going to kill your cycle.
Im not looking to use any.test base smesh base... you don't need a test base unless you know lethargy is going to kill your cycle.
Yeah ive never understood why people say this is a must. My current cycle is the first ive ever done it with one. Maybe feel a bit better but its hard to say. Being a plus isnt the same as being a requirement.test base smesh base... you don't need a test base unless you know lethargy is going to kill your cycle.
I think I'll try without this time and see how it goes.test base smesh base... you don't need a test base unless you know lethargy is going to kill your cycle.
SERM shmerm...you dont need a SERM unless you know you wont recover without one.test base smesh base... you don't need a test base unless you know lethargy is going to kill your cycle.
Point?SERM shmerm...you dont need a SERM unless you know you wont recover without one.
You can possibly recover without a SERM.Point?
Theres potential irreparable harm done by not having a proper pct. Not the case with this other scenario. They arent the same at all.You can possibly recover without a SERM.
You can possibly experience no on-cycle lethargy.
You cannot see the future. So weigh up the potential pros and cons. I think in both these cases, its most reasonable to assume "the worse" and use other compounds to minimise bigger negatives.
Im not saying they are the same in all respects, thats ridiculous. But that doesnt mean they are not the same in some. Id venture that most guys take a SERM not because of potential irreperable damage; they take one to better ensure a speedy hPTA recovery (most guys assume they will recover, one way or the other, with one or without). Irreperable damage will tend to be done before PCT, and not due to a lack of SERM in PCT.Theres potential irreparable harm done by not having a proper pct. Not the case with this other scenario. They arent the same at all.
if only we could nail down the cause... I think its more dose related but then I get terrible lethargy on 1andros at label doses. so some hormones do indeed cause it with out sizable dosing.Im not saying they are the same in all respects, thats ridiculous. But that doesnt mean they are not the same in some. Id venture that most guys take a SERM not because of potential irreperable damage; they take one to better ensure a speedy hPTA recovery (most guys assume they will recover, one way or the other, with one or without). Irreperable damage will tend to be done before PCT, and not due to a lack of SERM in PCT.
Anyway, on-cycle lethargy sucks. To me, why not utilise measures to minimise it before you get it? Thats the point. You cant see the future.
But, if you have weighed the options and choose not to have some sort of base, great. Some people will just deal with the lethargy, if they even get it.
Yip, sure. Id be surprised if there wasnt multiple causes (and so solutions) of lethargy. Ive read convincing theories that compounds like superdrol (and anavar) cause cortisol-related lethargy; no amount of test/4andro/dermacrine/trest/etc will significantly overcome this. So yep, some compounds may fuk you over regardless.if only we could nail down the cause... I think its more dose related but then I get terrible lethargy on 1andros at label doses. so some hormones do indeed cause it with out sizable dosing.
hope you log it!Shout out to Zoo. I ordered up 2 bottles of that Geozine DMZ. Will run new cycle Jan 2019. So excited, I expect massive gains are a coming. Can't wait.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305530Does anyone else have some logs to follow?
What's your msten dosing?1 week in on the msten. No noticeable changes in size, but my workouts have been more intense than they've been in a long time. Weights and reps are both slightly higher. I maintain around 2400-2500 cals, I've been taking in around 3k and feel like I'm starving on some days.
I'm sticking with 20mg for 4 weeks. If I continue to not feel any sides, I may try 30 starting at week 3.What's your msten dosing?
you are the first to report this I have heard. how many times have you ran msten? trest barely works for me any more at normal doses. just putting that out there.. you could be right about your tolerance to the hormone.About to start week 3 of msten at 30mg here and I have to say I’m somewhat disappointed. Not getting the muscle or strength gains from previous msten runs thus far. Lacking muscle fullness I usually get I understand I’m not going to gain 15+ lbs with every run. Two more weeks to go. Anyone else underwhelmed this far?
Hey brother, clear your PM’sAbout to start week 3 of msten at 30mg here and I have to say I’m somewhat disappointed. Not getting the muscle or strength gains from previous msten runs thus far. Lacking muscle fullness I usually get I understand I’m not going to gain 15+ lbs with every run. Two more weeks to go. Anyone else underwhelmed this far?
Good point. 1st msten run I gained 11 lbs. 3rd run I gained 5 or 6. The bigger you get the harder to add lean muscle mass.you are the first to report this I have heard. how many times have you ran msten? trest barely works for me any more at normal doses. just putting that out there.. you could be right about your tolerance to the hormone.
Is this the Vicious Labs msten? How many lbs have you gained and how much have you added to your lifts? Calories?About to start week 3 of msten at 30mg here and I have to say I’m somewhat disappointed. Not getting the muscle or strength gains from previous msten runs thus far. Lacking muscle fullness I usually get I understand I’m not going to gain 15+ lbs with every run. Two more weeks to go. Anyone else underwhelmed this far?
Cleared!Hey brother, clear your PM’s
How many lbs have you put on to bodyweight and to your lifts though?Cleared!
But this will be my third run. At a 500 calorie surplus some days a little more trying to put on some clean weight. It is the Vicious Labs Msten and I understand I may not gain as much as previous runs but I am not getting that muscle fullness and glycogen retention I am used to? Always had success with VL so it could be something I’m doing just not sure what lol
About 3lbs and some lifts have increased 5-10lbs but nothing like what I’m used toHow many lbs have you put on to bodyweight and to your lifts though?
Doesn't make sense totally-- I've ran DMZ at least 7x, and even on my last run-- I still get the glycogen retention.Cleared!
But this will be my third run. At a 500 calorie surplus some days a little more trying to put on some clean weight. It is the Vicious Labs Msten and I understand I may not gain as much as previous runs but I am not getting that muscle fullness and glycogen retention I am used to? Always had success with VL so it could be something I’m doing just not sure what lol
that don't sound right...About 3lbs and some lifts have increased 5-10lbs but nothing like what I’m used to
Damn, making me afraid that I’ll be underwhelmed with my cycle now lmao. I’m logging the dmz so I’ll see how it turns outAbout 3lbs and some lifts have increased 5-10lbs but nothing like what I’m used to
I’m up about 12lbs...Damn, making me afraid that I’ll be underwhelmed with my cycle now lmao. I’m logging the dmz so I’ll see how it turns out
The DMZ was legit, at least the cadaver candy version. Curious to hear others experiences with the Msten though because certainly not what I’m used toI’m up about 12lbs...
I am having the same issue.About 3lbs and some lifts have increased 5-10lbs but nothing like what I’m used to
I am a little confused why we can’t talk in PM’s, at least pm me what you insist on talking about off the forumLol I could probably be helping you save your cycle but someone wants to play stranger danger
do you feel anything>? at all? is it like msten only weaker?? or more like something else all together? please be specific.I am having the same issue.
Just tried again but your inbox is fullI am a little confused why we can’t talk in PM’s, at least pm me what you insist on talking about off the forum
netflixnchill is a good dude. hear him out!!!I am a little confused why we can’t talk in PM’s, at least pm me what you insist on talking about off the forum
Yeah i got two. Hope its not bunk or ill have to find a plan B for january.Yea hopefully the msten is good lol because I bought a bottle of that as well.
welp, make a log so ill know if mine is bunk or not lol. plan to use mine feb or marchYeah i got two. Hope its not bunk or ill have to find a plan B for january.
I’m logging their dmz right now. Prior to this batch of pyrosten, I had only heard phenomenal reviews on Vicious Labs.welp, make a log so ill know if mine is bunk or not lol. plan to use mine feb or march
Yep, I’ll be logging, just as I am now. Link in sig.welp, make a log so ill know if mine is bunk or not lol. plan to use mine feb or march
this is absolute.Ill say this, if it is wrong in any way, Zoo wasn’t behind it. (Manufacturer would be at fault) He admires his followers/supporters more than we admire his products, so I’m sure this will be figured out.