Usplabs Super Cissus RX or MyProtein's Mega Cissus ?

[leebird]

Hi there guys,

Anybody have any idea which is better. The Mega Cissus from MyProtein has 50% Ketosterone and is priced at £18.95. While Usplabs Super Cissus RX is stated to only have 10% Ketosterone and is priced at £24.99.

Going from this it seems MyProteins Mega Cissus is the better deal/product.

Or am I missing something ?

 

[Ev52]

I have had great results with the bulk USP labs stuff and I cap it myself. I have better results with cissus when it is a lower extract percentage.

 

[poison]

Super Cissus is the only cissus to use.

 

[xtgear]

I read on MD and flex articles on cissus where they stated that the higher the ketosterones the better(even for joint aid), and if you ask me I agree , I use the 40% keto primaforce and my joints improved better than with lower extracts, if my protein has 50% it should be the best out there

 

[joebo]

USP BULK SUPER is a good value... The best capped cissus I've used to date is Primaforce Cissus.

 

[nunes]

USP BULK SUPER is a good value... The best capped cissus I've used to date is Primaforce Cissus.

another vote to primaforce, very good cissus

 

[poopypants]

I vote USP all the way but in all honesty just taking cissus period pputs you a step ahead of the game. Id look into bulk powders liscensed through USPL though as their extraction process is unique and can be found at a very economical price if you know where to look.

 

[Titanium]

Somewhere on this board or bb.com Jacob and some others stated that at above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade. 10% is the sweet spot. The Ketosterones are just a part of what causes the many benefits of Cissus. I would use a lower extraction to get the broad spectrum of benefits.

 

[nunes]

Somewhere on this board or bb.com Jacob and some others stated that at above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade. 10% is the sweet spot. The Ketosterones are just a part of what causes the many benefits of Cissus. I would use a lower extraction to get the broad spectrum of benefits.

yeah, right, show me the studies that prove that...
I also saw the MD and FLEX articles where they said the higher the ketos the best, of course that companies that sell lower extracts wouldn't say that , for me the Jacob statement don't make any sense but if you prove me with studies I`ll change my mind...

 

[poopypants]

undoubtedly the entire cissus plant has a theraputic action, what was stated was that the ketosterones have more of an anabolic efffect more then anything and in order to get the best of both worlds one would want to have alot of the whole plant in there and only so much of the concentrated Ketos.

Now wether or not this is really factual or not I dont know. But it does go to say that the ketos are not the only thing that are benififting you and at the price you can find supercissus in bulk I dont see why one wouldnt just buy it that way and then mega dose the difference in the percentage of ketos

(ie 100mg of 50% = 50mg of keto and only 50mg of the rest
while 500mg of 10% = 50mg of keto and 450mg of the rest)

100g of 10% is 12 bucks while
100g 0f 50% is 29 bucks

now I know its a fifth the mgs of ketos for a third the price but like I said the effects of the whole plant arent completely negligable.... so Im certian its still the better deal.

 

[nunes]

undoubtedly the entire cissus plant has a theraputic action, what was stated was that the ketosterones have more of an anabolic efffect more then anything and in order to get the best of both worlds one would want to have alot of the whole plant in there and only so much of the concentrated Ketos.

Now wether or not this is really factual or not I dont know. But it does go to say that the ketos are not the only thing that are benififting you and at the price you can find supercissus in bulk I dont see why one wouldnt just buy it that way and then mega dose the difference in the percentage of ketos

(ie 100mg of 50% = 50mg of keto and only 50mg of the rest
while 500mg of 10% = 50mg of keto and 450mg of the rest)

100g of 10% is 12 bucks while
100g 0f 50% is 29 bucks

now I know its a fifth the mgs of ketos for a third the price but like I said the effects of the whole plant arent completely negligable.... so Im certian its still the better deal.

I personally wont change the brand I use(primaforce), I tried both and I prefer the 40%extract and the price its basically the same, but I understand that some people may chose usp, I just don't like to see commercial claims without a scientific back up, as I said before only after I see them is possible to me to change my mind , until then I think that by my personal experience the higher the ketos the best

 

[leebird]

What does put me off abit from buying USPlabs Products is the hype they use for there products along with them not being clear whats in some of there products i.e PowerFULL, also the company is relatively new.

 

[Australian made]

Hi there guys,

Anybody have any idea which is better. The Mega Cissus from MyProtein has 50% Ketosterone and is priced at £18.95. While Usplabs Super Cissus RX is stated to only have 10% Ketosterone and is priced at £24.99.

Going from this it seems MyProteins Mega Cissus is the better deal/product.

Or am I missing something ?

Id be very suprised if anyone took both of these supps for a few months and noticed the difference between the two.

Go the cheaper option.

 

[FrankJ]

Im on USP SuperCissus right now.

When I finish up I will run Primaforce again for comparison.

Right now I am making solid gains while healing a few nagging injuries.

 

[leebird]

Im on USP SuperCissus right now.

When I finish up I will run Primaforce again for comparison.

Right now I am making solid gains while healing a few nagging injuries.

Would you say that the pain killing/anti-inflammatory effects of Cissus are simiular to those of Ibuprofen as claimed ?

 

[poopypants]

definately.

 

[poison]

yeah, right, show me the studies that prove that.....

Show me the studies that prove Cissus strengthens tendons and is good for joints. Right, you can't, but you're still using Cissus, so toss that argument out.

Jacob is the one who first popularized Cissus in the US. If he hadn't put it in his old fatburner (which, BTW, is one of the few things Cissus IS studied for), and people hadn't reported nice pain-free joints, none of us would be using cissus right now.

Jacob could sell any extract he chooses; indeed, he sold a more potent cissus extract in an anabolic product a while back. Instead he chooses to sell what a majority of feedback reports is better for joints: 10%.

poopypants cost assessment is spot on.

 

[nunes]

Show me the studies that prove Cissus strengthens tendons and is good for joints. Right, you can't, but you're still using Cissus, so toss that argument out.

WHAT??
your statement makes no sense at all, I take cissus cause I feel better with cissus, I take 40% extract cause I fell even better with a 40% extract, Jacob statement doesn't have scientific back up and he sells the lower extract, my point is if you're selling one product and you say yours is better, show me the proof, if you ain't got one I chose to believe or not, I can be wrong but you don't see me inventing nothing , I go with my personal experience. and thats what I post , you chose to believe who you want though

 

[poopypants]

WHAT??
your statement makes no sense at all, I take cissus cause I feel better with cissus, I take 40% extract cause I fell even better with a 40% extract, Jacob statement doesn't have scientific back up and he sells the lower extract, my point is if you're selling one product and you say yours is better, show me the proof, if you ain't got one I chose to believe or not, I can be wrong but you don't see me inventing nothing , I go with my personal experience. and thats what I post , you chose to believe who you want though

what were saying though nunes is if you really like getting that many mg's of ketos it would still be more cost effective to use mega doses of the 10% then the 50% to get the same mg's of ketos.... in fact I bet you could use a double dose of the 10% and get a MUCH better effect then the 50% and it will still be less.

 

[nunes]

what were saying though nunes is if you really like getting that many mg's of ketos it would still be more cost effective to use mega doses of the 10% then the 50% to get the same mg's of ketos.... in fact I bet you could use a double dose of the 10% and get a MUCH better effect then the 50% and it will still be less.

look my friend I`m not discussing what is the cheaper and the doses I need to take of one to have the same ketos of the other, I personally don't know if that is so linear and you also don't know the price I pay for both in Europe, what I dislike is to see:
"Jacob and some others stated that at above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade. 10% is the sweet spot."
do you think this is true?????
c`mon bro, this need scientific investigation and not just what people say , you can see 3 people here saying they like the 40% more and I`m not saying its an absolute true( and dont forget the articles in flex and md) , I`m just posting my experience.
I have no commercial interest in this and I`m just giving way my experience to others,a question was asked and I answered, they chose to buy what they want and what is better for them though

 

[poison]

nunes, you require scientific proof that the lower extract is better, but you don't require any scientific proof at all that cissus works.

Double standard? Yup. Use what you like. But the consensus is that the lower extract is better, and poopypants proves it.

 

[poopypants]

look my friend I`m not discussing what is the cheaper and the doses I need to take of one to have the same ketos of the other, I personally don't know if that is so linear and you also don't know the price I pay for both in Europe, what I dislike is to see:
"Jacob and some others stated that at above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade. 10% is the sweet spot."
do you think this is true?????
c`mon bro, this need scientific investigation and not just what people say , you can see 3 people here saying they like the 40% more and I`m not saying its an absolute true( and dont forget the articles in flex and md) , I`m just posting my experience.
I have no commercial interest in this and I`m just giving way my experience to others,a question was asked and I answered, they chose to buy what they want and what is better for them though

scientific studies are GREAT sir....

what Im saying is for 12 USD you can get 100g of 10% cissus dose the same amount of ketos for 100g of 40% and prob pay less!!!! youll def get a better effect since the dose will be 4x that of your 40% overall and there is definately an activity in the rest of the cissus plant and THAT sir is scientifically proven.

 

[poopypants]

i take that back... primaforce charges 30 dollars for 60g.... you can quintuple dose it and youll still be paying less.

 

[nunes]

nunes, you require scientific proof that the lower extract is better, but you don't require any scientific proof at all that cissus works.

Double standard? Yup. Use what you like. But the consensus is that the lower extract is better, and poopypants proves it.

yes , I need scientific evidence when I and a lot others feel the opposite and no I dont need scientific studies to experiment every supp that I take , and what consensus and proof are you talking about??????????

 

[LatSpread]

Primaforce gets my vote.

 

[nunes]

i take that back... primaforce charges 30 dollars for 60g.... you can quintuple dose it and youll still be paying less.

again , you`re making your calculus only with nutra prices and I still don't think that take more 10% and you have the 50% behaves like a linear regression, by the way you haven't answered the question I made you in the previous post

 

[poopypants]

no YOU made the point that its all about the amount of Ketosterones with your MD mag. If we play YOUR game the rest of the plant makes NO difference.

A 10% of keto's is how much ketos per VOLUME not the potency of the ketos themselves or anything else SOOOO

by VOLUME you can dose 4x the 10% and get your same amount of "Active ketos".

But in reality the truth is MUCH better as there IS an effect and activity from the rest of the plant and your really getting a WHOLE lot more outta mega dosing the lower percent then the higher.

YES im using an NP price for primaforce the Super cissus bulk on the other hand is NOT from NP. If you can find the primaforce for less cool, but its still no 100g's for 12 dollas.

Im done here man, if you dont want to take your own logic apply it to your precious ketos and realize its cheaper to buy bulk super cissus (and in reality get an ish load more outta it) then fine, buy up that primaforce and leave the rest for me.

 

[nunes]

no YOU made the point that its all about the amount of Ketosterones with your MD mag. If we play YOUR game the rest of the plant makes NO difference.

A 10% of keto's is how much ketos per VOLUME not the potency of the ketos themselves or anything else SOOOO

by VOLUME you can dose 4x the 10% and get your same amount of "Active ketos".

But in reality the truth is MUCH better as there IS an effect and activity from the rest of the plant and your really getting a WHOLE lot more outta mega dosing the lower percent then the higher.

YES im using an NP price for primaforce the Super cissus bulk on the other hand is NOT from NP. If you can find the primaforce for less cool, but its still no 100g's for 12 dollas.

Im done here man, if you dont want to take your own logic apply it to your precious ketos and realize its cheaper to buy bulk super cissus (and in reality get an ish load more outta it) then fine, buy up that primaforce and leave the rest for me.

don't loose your calm man
first the argument was :
above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade
now,
take more bulk and you get your 40% ketos
according to MD and flex the ketos are the magic ingredient,if your logic 10+10=20 is true I dunno, and I also don't know if the quality of the extracts is the same, what I know is that I feel better with prima and this statement "above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade" really upset my thoughts, this is what I know

 

[poopypants]

don't loose your calm man
first the argument was :
above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade
now,
take more bulk and you get your 40% ketos

I never argued such, quote it. In fact I stated that I wasnt too convinced this WAS the case.

I said basically, the AMOUNT of ketos in 400g's of 10% is equivilant to 100g's 40% but the added benifit of having alot more of all the other portions of the entire cissus herb all the while still being cheaper to consume at that dose.

If "more ketos are better" then this is all you have to do to make up the difference in ketos and all the while its cheaper for a better all around effect.

I know you have tried primaforces, and I may agree mg/mg it may be more effective BUT I say that that same mg/mg price outweighs this benifit when taken into consideration one can dose for the most benificial aspect of the higher extract, more ketos period. 400mg of ketos is 400mg of ketos. so if I can achieve that same level for cheaper via bulk 10% extract and reap the benifit of having a shiz load more of the rest of the plant as well why not do that? So do this, get the 10% dose it mega dosed and then tell me its not a WORLD of difference over the 40% at a fraction of the dose.

 

[nunes]

I never argued such, quote it. In fact I stated that I wasnt too convinced this WAS the case.

I said basically, the AMOUNT of ketos in 400g's of 10% is equivilant to 100g's 40% but the added benifit of having alot more of all the other portions of the entire cissus herb all the while still being cheaper to consume at that dose.

If "more ketos are better" then this is all you have to do to make up the difference in ketos and all the while its cheaper for a better all around effect.

I know you have tried primaforces, and I may agree mg/mg it may be more effective BUT I say that that same mg/mg price outweighs this benifit when taken into consideration one can dose for the most benificial aspect of the higher extract, more ketos period. 400mg of ketos is 400mg of ketos. so if I can achieve that same level for cheaper via bulk 10% extract and reap the benifit of having a shiz load more of the rest of the plant as well why not do that? So do this, get the 10% dose it mega dosed and then tell me its not a WORLD of difference over the 40% at a fraction of the dose.

ok I understand your point and if you`re talking on the same quality of extracts its a valid one , but unfortunately I don't know if they are .
just one more note , cissus is extremely rich in calcium(one of the other components of the plant you speak off , and for people to mega dose with it to have the 40% ketos at least 3 x a day for probably all their life will increase a lot the calcium intake so I would be careful with it:

Excess calcium may increase prostate cancer risk

...this may offer a simple means to detect men who are at increased risk of fatal prostate cancer
Halcyon G. Skinner
Men who have too much calcium in their bloodstreams may have an increased risk of fatal prostate cancer, according to a new analysis from Wake Forest University School of Medicine and the University of Wisconsin.

"We show that men in upper range of the normal distribution of serum calcium subsequently have an almost three-fold increased risk for fatal prostate cancer," said Gary G. Schwartz, Ph.D., associate professor of cancer biology and of epidemiology and prevention at Wake Forest, a part of Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center. Such excess calcium can be lowered, he said.

The research appears in the September issue of Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research.

Co-author Halcyon G. Skinner of the School of Medicine and Public Health at the University of Wisconsin stressed there is "little relationship between calcium in the diet and calcium in serum. So men needn't be concerned about reducing their ordinary dietary intakes of calcium."

Schwartz and Skinner analyzed the results of 2,814 men who participated in the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES-1). Measurement of the amount of calcium in the bloodstreams was determined an average of 9.9 years before prostate cancer was diagnosed.

The researchers focused on the 85 cases of prostate cancer and 25 prostate cancer deaths among the 2,814 men and divided the group into thirds, based on the serum calcium level. "Comparing men in the top third with men in the bottom third, we found a significantly increased hazard for fatal prostate cancer.

"To our knowledge, this is the first study to examine prostate cancer risk in relation to serum calcium," Schwartz and Skinner wrote. "These results support the hypothesis that high serum calcium, or a factor strongly associated with it, such as high serum parathyroid hormone, increases the risk for fatal prostate cancer".

In an interview, Schwartz said that if the relationship between serum calcium and prostate cancer "turns out to be causal, it suggests a means for potentially reducing the risk of fatal disease through medicines that reduce serum levels of calcium and/or parathyroid hormone".

He added, "Both calcium and parathyroid hormone are known to promote the growth of prostate cancer cells in the laboratory".

Skinner said, "The take-home message is that this may offer a simple means to detect men who are at increased risk of fatal prostate cancer".

What is particularly exciting ... is that it suggests that a man may reduce his risk of fatal prostate cancer by lowering serum levels of calcium and/or parathyroid hormone
Gary G. Schwartz
Schwartz said serum calcium ordinarily is tightly regulated by parathyroid hormone, so there is little variation in an individual's serum calcium over time. "Calcium is basically the current that runs many of the functions of your body. Calcium is important for not only neuromuscular conductions, electrical conductions, but for the conduction of muscles in your heart".

Too little calcium in blood, less than 7 milligrams per deciliter, can cause uncontrolled muscular convulsions or contractions. Too much calcium, above 14 milligrams per deciliter, can cause a coma. "Your body obviously cannot afford to oscillate between convulsions and coma, so the range of serum calcium is tightly controlled".

The upper third of NHANES-1 participants had high normal calcium levels, ranging from 9.9 to 10.5 milligrams per deciliter.

"If confirmed, our study shows that calcium at the high end of normal is associated with a three-fold increased risk of fatal prostate cancer later in life," Schwartz said. But unlike well-known risk factors for prostate cancer such as age, race or family history, which cannot be altered, "a man's serum calcium levels can be".

Several drugs already used in patients with high levels of parathyroid hormone, such as patients with chronic kidney disease, could be used to reduce calcium and/or parathyroid hormone in the blood, he said.

Measurements of serum calcium are routinely collected and are part of most medical visits. Thus, a physician can readily determine whether a man's serum calcium level is at the high end of normal.

"What is particularly exciting if this study is replicated, and attempts to do so are already in progress, is that it suggests that a man may reduce his risk of fatal prostate cancer by lowering serum levels of calcium and/or parathyroid hormone," he said.
Anaesthesia UK :*Excess calcium may increase prostate cancer risk

this is what is writen on page 308-310 , may 2008 flex edition:
"Recent research performed on extracts of this plant confirm the benefits of cissus....
Chemical analysis shows that is high in vit c, carotene,calcium and phytosteroles.
The later include potent ketosterones that seem to provide the great majority of herb`s effect, such as enhancing bone reformation and preventing osteoporosis, as well as providing powerful antioxidant and bacterial benefits, and promoting fat loss
...
Luckily, a few companies offer cissus supplements....look for products that provide 1000mg of cissus standardized for ketosterones and take 1000mg before lunch and dinner"


So thanks but I dont need more of the other cissus ingridients that my diet also provides , they can even become toxic in high doses and I`m glad you say that you dont argue that:above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade
, cause that really doesnt look like a truth to me , it looks like a comercial argument of someone with interest in it

 

[nunes]

But the consensus is that the lower extract is better, and poopypants proves it.

I never argued such, quote it. In fact I stated that I wasnt too convinced this WAS the case.

poison you seem to believe in poopy so please remember his last post before throwing broscience to the boards again

 

[poison]

poison you seem to believe in poopy so please remember his last post before throwing broscience to the boards again

I said basically, the AMOUNT of ketos in 400g's of 10% is equivilant to 100g's 40% but the added benifit of having alot more of all the other portions of the entire cissus herb all the while still being cheaper to consume at that dose.

The question is: which ketosterones are the products being extracted for. According to USPLabs, there are different effects from different ketosterones. Given that we don't know, and given the price difference, it's cheaper AND more effective to use bulk USPLabs 10%. That way you're getting the broad spectrum of ketosterones the plant provides.

As for your therory on calcium and cissus: do you use protein shakes, whey or otherwise? Do you use dairy products? If so, the cissus is not going to be what detonates your prostate. Each scoop of whey (~24gr) has on average 10% USRDA of calcium. Casein is higher. A single MetRX RTD has 60%.

Good luck with that...broski.

 

[xtgear]

The question is: which ketosterones are the products being extracted for. According to USPLabs, there are different effects from different ketosterones. Given that we don't know, and given the price difference, it's cheaper AND more effective to use bulk USPLabs 10%. That way you're getting the broad spectrum of ketosterones the plant provides.

usp sells the lower extract, why should I believe you and them if you don't post a study that proves what your saying.
How can you be so sure about this:"more effective to use bulk USPLabs 10%. That way you're getting the broad spectrum of ketosterones the plant provides.":lol:
THIS IS A LIE AND YOU INSIST , its depresing to see your posts , even your friend poopy dont agree with that statement and I also feel better with the 40% extract, you go in circles but never prove your arguments, please do yourself a favor and stop posting that:toilet:...

 

[xtgear]

this is what is writen on page 308-310 , may 2008 flex edition:
"Recent research performed on extracts of this plant confirm the benefits of cissus....
Chemical analysis shows that is high in vit c, carotene,calcium and phytosteroles.
The later include potent ketosterones that seem to provide the great majority of herb`s effect, such as enhancing bone reformation and preventing osteoporosis, as well as providing powerful antioxidant and bacterial benefits, and promoting fat loss
...
Luckily, a few companies offer cissus supplements....look for products that provide 1000mg of cissus standardized for ketosterones and take 1000mg before lunch and dinner"


So thanks but I dont need more of the other cissus ingridients that my diet also provides , they can even become toxic in high doses and I`m glad you say that you dont argue that:above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade
, cause that really doesnt look like a truth to me , it looks like a comercial argument of someone with interest in it

I trust flex more than I trust people that have commercial interest in lower extract, thanks for posting nunes you`re the man

 

[poison]

usp sells the lower extract, why should I believe you and them if you don't post a study that proves what your saying.
How can you be so sure about this:"more effective to use bulk USPLabs 10%. That way you're getting the broad spectrum of ketosterones the plant provides.":lol:
THIS IS A LIE AND YOU INSIST , its depresing to see your posts , even your friend poopy dont agree with that statement and I also feel better with the 40% extract, you go in circles but never prove your arguments, please do yourself a favor and stop posting that:toilet:...

:lol: There are zero studies showing cissus works for joints at all, so why don't you stop taking it, if studies are necessary for you to form an opinion?

How can I come up with a study showing the 10% is better for joints than the 40%, if there ARE NO STUDIES SHOWING CISSUS IS GOOD FOR JOINTS, PERIOD, regardless of potency?

It's ALL anecdotal evidence. Seeing as this is what we have to go on, Super Cissus has by far the MOST positive reviews.

Use what you like, but logic (I know, it's hard) points to mega-dosing the 10% being more effective both cost-wise and benefits wise than the 40%.

Go post a study showing the 40% is better.

 

[poison]

I trust flex more than I trust people that have commercial interest in lower extract, thanks for posting nunes you`re the man

Flex also recommends tribulus. :lol:

 

[nunes]

Flex also recommends tribulus. :lol:

so does usp , see prime and tna
I `ll post my answer to your ridiculous post later cause I`m on a rush, and by the way you're lying again flex and md recommended tribulus a long time ago, not now.
Man if you don't have nothing to prove your arguments and want to make foolish statements and lie forever that's ok,they amuse me a lot:thumbsup:

 

[JohnnieFreeze]

I've tried cissus 10% for 3 months and got only marginal benefit on my joints...my joints felt slightly better on higher extracts, but my muscles really loved it. Personally, Ill pay a little more for the convenience of taking a little of a powerful extract than having to take 10x that and shove 40 pounds of dirt down my throat just because it might save me a few pennies but thats just me. I dont mind paying for convenience.

 

[nunes]

The question is: which ketosterones are the products being extracted for. According to USPLabs, there are different effects from different ketosterones. Given that we don't know, and given the price difference, it's cheaper AND more effective to use bulk USPLabs 10%. That way you're getting the broad spectrum of ketosterones the plant provides.

:

First and once and for all , this statement is not proven, you keep telling this even when people that was with you in this thread says , and I quote, "In fact I stated that I wasnt too convinced this WAS the case" , but its no use you want to believe so go ahead bro, buy it , I don't care , the big difference between you and me is that what I`m saying is based in my (and others as you can see in this thread)personal experience I don't know for sure if I`m right but you want by all means lead people to believe that the 10%usp is better than the 40%of the others (and I`m not talking about the cost) without any scientific evidence
People chose to believe who they want but the guys that posted here that feel better with 40% spend their money in the product , they have no financial interest but I think that Jacob is exactly the opposite , so again believe who you want ...
"above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade":lol::lol::lol:, this statement is one of the biggest jokes I saw in my life , but even more funny is that you believe it:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

As for your therory on calcium and cissus: do you use protein shakes, whey or otherwise? Do you use dairy products? If so, the cissus is not going to be what detonates your prostate. Each scoop of whey (~24gr) has on average 10% USRDA of calcium. Casein is higher. A single MetRX RTD has 60%.

exactly, your post shows that our bb diet has a lot of calcium, maybe more than required , that's why I think that mega dosing with the bulk to have my 40%extract 3Xday can be potentially harmful cause cissus is very rich in calcium so why would I overdose it even more if I can take the same ketos with a lot less cissus dosage????
1glass of wine is good ,1 bottle can give you a hang up , 3 can take you to the hospital

Please stop this childish discussion , you like more the 10, a lot of people like more the 40, please respect that and don't post unproven statements without scientifical evidence cause sometimes I think that you have interest in doing so (I prefer to think that way cause the other alternative is very disrespectful for your intelligence)

 

[nunes]

I've tried cissus 10% for 3 months and got only marginal benefit on my joints...my joints felt slightly better on higher extracts, but my muscles really loved it. Personally, Ill pay a little more for the convenience of taking a little of a powerful extract than having to take 10x that and shove 40 pounds of dirt down my throat just because it might save me a few pennies but thats just me. I dont mind paying for convenience.

not just you bro,not just you...


great post

 

[Mulletsoldier]

All of the research conducted on CQ has been in respects to its reparative action on osteoblasts, osteoclasts, fibroblasts, and the elimination of gastric ulcers and associated intestinal inflammations. Its wide use as a joint and tendon supplement - with respects to the modern sports-nutrition industry* - arose as users anecdotally responded to cAMPH with reports of lessened and/or eliminated joint strain; there are several postulates which may explain the actions of CQ in this context - most notably, Cissus' anti-gluccorticoidal action, and its attenuation of the cytokine family; and, therein, primarily TNF-1 ALPHA.

Now, the above mentioned effects were noted in respects to either: a) whole herb preparations using stem, root, and leaf matter or; b) specific, isolated ketosterones from the plant. Simply put, increasing the extraction of certain phytochemicals necessarily lessens the percentage of others. In this respect, by increasing to 40% ketosterones (depending which ones), you may run the risk of eliminating some of the positive actions noted by whole herb, or lower percentage preparations - preparations reflected in the research.

It is for this reason we at USP Labs extract as we do.

* It had been used in this context in Aryuveda for centuries.

 

[nunes]

All of the research conducted on CQ has been in respects to its reparative action on osteoblasts, osteoclasts, fibroblasts, and the elimination of gastric ulcers and associated intestinal inflammations. Its wide use as a joint and tendon supplement - with respects to the modern sports-nutrition industry* - arose as users anecdotally responded to cAMPH with reports of lessened and/or eliminated joint strain; there are several postulates which may explain the actions of CQ in this context - most notably, Cissus' anti-gluccorticoidal action, and its attenuation of the cytokine family; and, therein, primarily TNF-1 ALPHA.

Now, the above mentioned effects were noted in respects to either: a) whole herb preparations using stem, root, and leaf matter or; b) specific, isolated ketosterones from the plant. Simply put, increasing the extraction of certain phytochemicals necessarily lessens the percentage of others. In this respect, by increasing to 40% ketosterones (depending which ones), you may run the risk of eliminating some of the positive actions noted by whole herb, or lower percentage preparations - preparations reflected in the research.

It is for this reason we at USP Labs extract as we do.

* It had been used in this context in Aryuveda for centuries.

yes mullet you may but you also may not,how do you know you`re not eliminating the good stuff in detriment of the rest, in all magazines I read, they say that the more the ketos the best the cissus,I told you before that the first cissus product I used was usp and it was good , I liked it , but then I tried the 40% and guess what I felt even better so that statement may not apply to all people (and you can find some of them here in this thread, against facts there's no arguments)or maybe you guys are doing something wrong.
By the way applied nutr.had a lower extract in osteobolin but in their new joint aid product,osteo-sport they change for one standardised for 40%, I wonder why?

AGAIN , there's no scientific evidence on those claims ,cause there's no comparative studies between extracts so people should try both and see what suits them better, and by the way was this statement:
"above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade"
really made by you guys?


and since you`re here I`m still waiting for the recreate you said you sent me, no recreate, no letter from costumes , no nothing...

 

[Mulletsoldier]

yes mullet you may but you also may not,how do you know you`re not eliminating the good stuff in detriment of the rest, in all magazines I read they say that the more the ketos the best the cissus,I told you before that the first cissus product I used was usp and it was good , I liked it , but then I tried the 40% and guess what I felt even better so that statement may not apply to all people (and you can find some of them here in this thread, against facts there's no arguments)or maybe you guys are doing something wrong.
By the way applied nutr.had a lower extract in osteobolin but in their new joint aid product they change for one standardised for 40%, I wonder why?

AGAIN , there's no scientific evidence on those claims ,cause there's no comparative studies between extracts so people should try both and see what suits them better and by the way was this statement:
"above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade"
really made by you guys?


and since you`re here I`m still waiting for the recreate you said you sent me, no recreate, no letter from costumes , no nothing...

First of all - and I do not mean to be rude - your posts are unfathomably hard to understand. Grammar and syntax may not be your strong point, but at times your posts do not resemble a coherent argument. Nevertheless, no disrespect intended, and I am going to try and disseminate your point.

I believe you missed this part of my post:

Now, the above mentioned effects were noted in respects to either: a) whole herb preparations using stem, root, and leaf matter or; b) specific, isolated ketosterones from the plant. Simply put, increasing the extraction of certain phytochemicals necessarily lessens the percentage of others. In this respect, by increasing to 40% ketosterones (depending which ones), you may run the risk of eliminating some of the positive actions noted by whole herb, or lower percentage preparations - preparations reflected in the research

So, no, by increasing the extraction of specific Ketos (which is what the 40% alludes to) you are moving away from research validated standardization amounts, in hopes of reaching increased efficacy - or, in other words, while all of CQ's reparative joint action is postulated, the lower standardization amounts reflect the preparations used in the clinical data; and, therein, preparations which contain high amounts of beta-carotene and so on.

Now, using the argument that a magazine validates an opinion is beyond egregious; bordering on ridiculous.

 

[nunes]

First of all - and I do not mean to be rude - your posts are unfathomably hard to understand. Grammar and syntax may not be your strong point, but at times your posts do not resemble a coherent argument. Nevertheless, no disrespect intended, and I am going to try and disseminate your point.

I believe you missed this part of my post:



So, no, by increasing the extraction of specific Ketos (which is what the 40% alludes to) you are moving away from research validated standardization amounts, in hopes of reaching increased efficacy - or, in other words, while all of CQ's reparative joint action is postulated, the lower standardization amounts reflect the preparations used in the clinical data; and, therein, preparations which contain high amounts of beta-carotene and so on.

Now, using the argument that a magazine validates an opinion is beyond egregious; bordering on ridiculous.

sorry about the grammar, English is not my mother language so sometimes its hard to pass my messages...
I think you guys understand me though, sorry again

Ok I understand your point and USP can be right but you must admit that there's not enough scientific evidence to show that the lower extracts are better than the highest on joint aid , and this was my point since the beginning cause some guys were saying that:
"above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade"
this is an unproven statement, and as I said before why not try both and see what suits better ?
this is a link to a thread where primaforce defend the 40% extract for joint aid:
Primaforce Cissus Update-40% Total Ketosterones/20% 3-Ketosterones - Bodybuilding.com Forums
Look mullet and for end this drama, you guys based your product in research made with lower extracts and I`m glad you did that , you guys were innovative and bring a great compound to the market, this was a wonderful thing to all of us, you have merits on that, but I`m sure you understand that there's a possibility that maybe the highest extracts can work better for some individuals , this is the only message that I`m trying to pass in this thread , I don't like to see statements without a scientific evidence and only after a comparison study between both % , statements like this "above 10% extraction the joint support behavior starts to degrade" can be made...

 

[poopypants]

First and once and for all , this statement is not proven, you keep telling this even when people that was with you in this thread says , and I quote, "In fact I stated that I wasnt too convinced this WAS the case" , but its no use you want to believe so go ahead bro, buy it , I don't care , the big difference between you and me is that what I`m saying is based in my (and others as you can see in this

umm that was me man... now your just misconstruing the facts to try and discredit people or are getting too worked up to realize your mistakes.

Your pulling out abstract studies on calcium toxicicity and then some how saying that the exact dose I am suggesting (4xs that of your primaforce dose) will exert that toxic effect. There is NO direct correlation between cissus and that study WHATSOEVER!!!

let alone I doubt you could find how much calcium is able to be found in cissus or even quote where you heard this nonsense, maybe it states its one of the higher concentrated minerals in cissus but again you can find higher concentrations for sure in all the crap you eat and drink everyday.

My point wasnt get stuff from the cissus plant to supplement your lakcing diet either, there are direct effects on anti inflamatory responses and all the other benifits in the plant as well found in the whole plant, THATS what im talking about. the exact desired effect of the plant isnt localized PURELY to the Ketosterones, even if thats where a majority of it comes from.

You need to chill and express your facts more clearly, dont misquote people and dont misconstrue what we are saying here by pulling up non-related studies, cause your lookin mighty foolish.

 

[nunes]

umm that was me man... now your just misconstruing the facts to try and discredit people or are getting too worked up to realize your mistakes.

Your pulling out abstract studies on calcium toxicicity and then some how saying that the exact dose I am suggesting (4xs that of your primaforce dose) will exert that toxic effect. There is NO direct correlation between cissus and that study WHATSOEVER!!!

let alone I doubt you could find how much calcium is able to be found in cissus or even quote where you heard this nonsense, maybe it states its one of the higher concentrated minerals in cissus but again you can find higher concentrations for sure in all the crap you eat and drink everyday.

My point wasnt get stuff from the cissus plant to supplement your lakcing diet either, there are direct effects on anti inflamatory responses and all the other benifits in the plant as well found in the whole plant, THATS what im talking about. the exact desired effect of the plant isnt localized PURELY to the Ketosterones, even if thats where a majority of it comes from.

You need to chill and express your facts more clearly, dont misquote people and dont misconstrue what we are saying here by pulling up non-related studies, cause your lookin mighty foolish.

yes I know it was you, that's why I said , "people that was with you in this thread"(in this case with poison), again sorry for my bad English I know that sometimes its difficult to understand
Look man I`m not a chemist but I see a lot of people here that likes the 40% extract more than the rest of the plant so sorry but you won't change my mind with your wannabe science

 

[poopypants]

.....funny I actually have science on my side using the only known study as mullet stated and you still have nothing proving yours isnt purely degraded due to an over concentration of uselessness???

Its ok Ill sit over here with my wannabe science while you read your all knowing mags.... :toofunny:

 

[nunes]

.....funny I actually have science on my side using the only known study as mullet stated and you still have nothing proving yours isnt purely degraded due to an over concentration of uselessness???

Its ok Ill sit over here with my wannabe science while you read your all knowing mags.... :toofunny:

I have my personal experience with both products and that's what counts for me .:thumbsup:
This all drama began when an unproven statement was made , I think that all the people that read this thread know now that nowadays there's no way to see which extract its best for joint aid and that was my fight .
For me and a lot others , as you can see here in this thread the 40% works best , so cap your bulk megadose 10% if you`re satisfied with it cause I`m very satisfied with my 4 pills of 40%.
And by the way, MD and flex are great, you should read them , maybe you would learn something new , don't let your mind trapped in the past ...

 

[poopypants]

I have my personal experience with both products and that's what counts for me .:thumbsup:
This all drama began when an unproven statement was made , I think that all the people that read this thread know now that nowadays there's no way to see which extract its best for joint aid and that was my fight .
For me and a lot others , as you can see here in this thread the 40% works best , so cap your bulk megadose 10% if you`re satisfied with it cause I`m very satisfied with my 4 pills of 40%.
And by the way, MD and flex are great, you should read them , maybe you would learn something new , don't let your mind trapped in the past ...

its all good I prefer to steer clear of the propagnda machine... Im sure that primaforce has advertisements throughout that mag too... no biased articles there now are there.

Ill learn something new when a study is shown to to me in the mean time Ill stay ahead of the curve talking to the owners and producers of these comps right here and not only that but get in on the beta testing with them.... or I could just wait and hear about the "latest" info MONTHS later.... or the best way to put an inch on my arms in a week....

please spare me. goodbye /unsubbed

 

[nunes]

its all good I prefer to steer clear of the propagnda machine... Im sure that primaforce has advertisements throughout that mag too... no biased articles there now are there.

Ill learn something new when a study is shown to to me in the mean time Ill stay ahead of the curve talking to the owners and producers of these comps right here and not only that but get in on the beta testing with them.... or I could just wait and hear about the "latest" info MONTHS later.... or the best way to put an inch on my arms in a week....

please spare me. goodbye /unsubbed

good for you but unfortunately not all of us have that privilege, so we have to try different stuff to see whats best for us, in this thread I just gave my opinion, I never lied and post false statements,my conscience is clear and I made my point .
moral of the story(and the message I tried to pass since the beginning)
the only studies made with cissus were made with the lower extracts and they worked, but most recently some companies launched products with higher extracts of ketosterones saying they work better, guess what! some guys tried them and they think its true,but since there's no comparative studies between both of them , there's no way to see which is better for joint aid so never trust statements like "the lower extracts are proven better" cause no one knows for sure if they are, try both and see what is best for you.
Thanks for the guys that supported my message here , over and out