Using an Anti Estrogen to increase tesosterone..confused?

[Natty22]

Okay I have heard that using an AI will increase your testosterone bc your body will try to pump out more testosterone to balance out the low estrogen balance. This makes a lot of sense to me. What confuses me is when people say to low of an estrogen level will lower your testosterone.

Which way is it??

and what is offically the most potent otc AI (I dont need letro or that kinda intensity)

 

[PumpHouse]

Your a bit confused on what an AI does, but the end result your correct on, less test being converted to estro means more test.

Although, I'm not sure why your test would drop once your estro dropped, but your sex drive will drop if estro gets too low, which I think is what you meant.

Erase gets great reviews. I've used it with success.

 

[Montego1]

Okay I have heard that using an AI will increase your testosterone bc your body will try to pump out more testosterone to balance out the low estrogen balance. This makes a lot of sense to me. What confuses me is when people say to low of an estrogen level will lower your testosterone.

Which way is it??

and what is offically the most potent otc AI (I dont need letro or that kinda intensity)

Too low of estrogen will kill your sex drive and hinder some gains you would experience, but it shouldn't effect your testosterone levels.

Check out Revolution PCT Black from FINAFLEX. Has a nice dose of arimistane per serving and some added goodies to help further boost testosterone.

About twenty bucks on Nutraplanet right now.

 

[Natty22]

Awesome thanks guys. Last question why would it hinder games ud think your body would try to like make crazy amounts of test if it got to that point

 

[PumpHouse]

You don't want to crush estro levels. Bone density, libido, mood, and your thyroid are heavily affected by estrogen.

 

[JD261985]

I'd use formeron. It decreases estrogen but it also converts to testosterone

 

[Rodja]

I'd use formeron. It decreases estrogen but it also converts to testosterone

It actually converts to 4OHT.

 

[Natty22]

Okay so thats what kills your gains.

Ive actually ran form. And didnt find it that great..think I expected too much or didnt allow to absorb long ebough(thats the huge pain about it)

 

[kisaj]

I'm on TRT and have used aromasin, adex, erase, and formeron. Hands down, Formeron is where it is at, IMO. I have multiple labs that show me how effective it is and the others are too effective or not at all. I control e2 very well with a good protocol, so I have no need for a really strong script and found that it crushed my e2 numbers. Erase had no effect, and Formeron brought me from mid 20's (where I am very comfortable), to 15.9 on my most recent lab. I feel great, and my libido went up from even where it was good in the mid 20 range.

 

[laneanders]

If you want to slightly reduce Estrogen look at Reversitol V2. Otherwise, as has already been said bringing Estrogen too low can have negative effects.

 

[Natty22]

Dam so erase apparently doenst work, but formeron is legit as well as reversital v2. Thanks guys

 

[Montego1]

Dam so erase apparently doenst work, but formeron is legit as well as reversital v2. Thanks guys

Erase works.

 

[kisaj]

Dam so erase apparently doenst work, but formeron is legit as well as reversital v2. Thanks guys

I wouldn't say that it doesn't work as a blanket statement. I'd say that it doesn't really work if you are on exogenous test like those of us on TRT and those running cycles. Plenty of us found that by running actual labs to see numbers. Those that are natty seem to see benefit from it, so it could be viewed as a really mild AI for those looking to address e2 issues and are natural. It isn't strong enough for those of us running higher test numbers.

 

[veaderko]

Look into reversitol or intimidate for the otc AI your looking for.

 

[Natty22]

Okay well Ill be needing an ai for my halodrol pct and because hdrol doesnt aromitize it should be minimul.

Should I just got get aromasin bc its basically just a little bit more then pes erase and actually is same price as reversitol. Id just run the aromasin lower dosage

 

[veaderko]

Okay well Ill be needing an ai for my halodrol pct and because hdrol doesnt aromitize it should be minimul.

Should I just got get aromasin bc its basically just a little bit more then pes erase and actually is same price as reversitol. Id just run the aromasin lower dosage

I would still stick with a "standard" PCT.

 

[kisaj]

Okay well Ill be needing an ai for my halodrol pct and because hdrol doesnt aromitize it should be minimul.

Should I just got get aromasin bc its basically just a little bit more then pes erase and actually is same price as reversitol. Id just run the aromasin lower dosage

I'd run Formeron over any AI, personally.

 

[dkgreene88]

Dam so erase apparently doenst work, but formeron is legit as well as reversital v2. Thanks guys

Erase works but it dried my joints out bad. For some reason I don't get that with reversitol

 

[Natty22]

I'd run Formeron over any AI, personally.

Have you run prescription ai to compare. Just wondering?

 

[Natty22]

Erase works but it dried my joints out bad. For some reason I don't get that with reversitol

Would that mean erase is more potent? Like could there be a chance reversitol doesnt do much

 

[kisaj]

Have you run prescription ai to compare. Just wondering?

Arimidex and aromasin.

 

[jimbuick]

OTC AIs would be formestane and arimistane.


Both will work for PCT for HDrol, I would probably pick formestane if the transdermal application isn't an issue because I think it's better.


Formestane: Formasurge, Formeron

Arimistane: Erase, Rev PCT has it too I believe.


There are more, but those are the ones I know off the top of my head.

 

[Natty22]

Arimidex and aromasin.

well dam I want formeron now! I looked it up though and its freaking more expensive then aromasin which kinda sucks..

Anyone know where to get formeron for under 40 bucks

 

[jimbuick]

well dam I want formeron now! I looked it up though and its freaking more expensive then aromasin which kinda sucks..

Anyone know where to get formeron for under 40 bucks

Formeron isn't on NP, which is the only retailer we can link on this forum.


Formasurge (same AI, different company) is sold for $42 on NP.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/bulk-performance-solutions/new-formasurge-120-servings.html

 

[brundel]

Formeron isn't on NP, which is the only retailer we can link on this forum.


Formasurge (same AI, different company) is sold for $42 on NP.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/bulk-performance-solutions/new-formasurge-120-servings.html

Not sure why you would lie and say Formeron isnt on NP
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/black-lion-research/formeron-120-ml.html

At any rate.

For the OP.
AI's increast testosterone in two ways:

1. Less of your total test is converted to estrogen so levels will slightly rise as estro drops.
2. In males estrogen is manufactured primarily via an enzymatic conversion....testosterone>aromatase>estrogen.
So when you take an AI and estro drops the brain will send the lutenizing hormone signal to the balls to make more test so that from it more estro can be made. SO..low estro = rising test under normal circumstances.

THis is why an AI should be used during PCT along with your SERM. SERM will prevent estrogen from binding but will not lower estro so when discontinued test levels can plummet without concurrent administration of an AI.

 

[brundel]

well dam I want formeron now! I looked it up though and its freaking more expensive then aromasin which kinda sucks..

Anyone know where to get formeron for under 40 bucks

The reason FOrmeron was developed originally was for my personal use. Research Chem sites are hit and miss at best.
Sometimes its got active ingredients in it sometimes not...sometimes its underdosed, sometimes its overdosed...sometimes its got the wrong compound in it.
I once ordered Nolva and got 200mcg Clenbuterol labeled as nolva. After taking 400mcg I had to go to the hospital with heart palpitations.

Anyways, even if RC aromasin was 4$ you have no idea if your even getting aromasin and there is no recourse because it says right on the bottle not to eat it.
I know personally a few of these guys. Some are good guys. MANY are not and dont give a *&( if you get sick or die or otherwise.
They dont have any quality control and dont EVER test to see if the right drug is in there or at what concentrations.
Your walking a very dangerous line taking RC chems. Period.
Formeron is always dosed properly
always the right compound
always clean
always tested.
A few dollars more to know your taking the right thing....

 

[Natty22]

Okay this sold me after seeing how sketch r.c sites are

 

[JD261985]

Not sure why you would lie and say Formeron isnt on NP http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/black-lion-research/formeron-120-ml.html At any rate. For the OP. AI's increast testosterone in two ways: 1. Less of your total test is converted to estrogen so levels will slightly rise as estro drops. 2. In males estrogen is manufactured primarily via an enzymatic conversion....testosterone>aromatase>estrogen. So when you take an AI and estro drops the brain will send the lutenizing hormone signal to the balls to make more test so that from it more estro can be made. SO..low estro = rising test under normal circumstances. THis is why an AI should be used during PCT along with your SERM. SERM will prevent estrogen from binding but will not lower estro so when discontinued test levels can plummet without concurrent administration of an AI.

Lol as soon as I read that formeron isn't on NP which I read pretty much immediately after he made that post I went to nutraplanet. Low and behold Formeron was there. Oh and BTW Formasurge blows compared to formeron. I do like the new dermacrine a lot though and I use formeron and dermacrine together

 

[jimbuick]

Not sure why you would lie and say Formeron isnt on NP
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/black-lion-research/formeron-120-ml.html

At any rate.

For the OP.
AI's increast testosterone in two ways:

1. Less of your total test is converted to estrogen so levels will slightly rise as estro drops.
2. In males estrogen is manufactured primarily via an enzymatic conversion....testosterone>aromatase>estrogen.
So when you take an AI and estro drops the brain will send the lutenizing hormone signal to the balls to make more test so that from it more estro can be made. SO..low estro = rising test under normal circumstances.

THis is why an AI should be used during PCT along with your SERM. SERM will prevent estrogen from binding but will not lower estro so when discontinued test levels can plummet without concurrent administration of an AI.

Hmm, don't know how I missed this post.

Before I posted it, I looked on the NP site and searched "formeron" and it said no results. Could've been a typo on my part, or issues with the site while they were setting up the sale.

Either way, it looks like I was mistaken.

Lol as soon as I read that formeron isn't on NP which I read pretty much immediately after he made that post I went to nutraplanet. Low and behold Formeron was there. Oh and BTW Formasurge blows compared to formeron. I do like the new dermacrine a lot though and I use formeron and dermacrine together

I didn't see it before posting when searching on my phone, although it's definitely showing up when I try to search it now.

I can't see any reason why Formasurge would "blow" compared to formeron, although I definitely haven't used both.

 

[Natty22]

So you can speak from expirience formasurge worked for you?

 

[brundel]

Hmm, don't know how I missed this post.

Before I posted it, I looked on the NP site and searched "formeron" and it said no results. Could've been a typo on my part, or issues with the site while they were setting up the sale.

Either way, it looks like I was mistaken.



I didn't see it before posting when searching on my phone, although it's definitely showing up when I try to search it now.

I can't see any reason why Formasurge would "blow" compared to formeron, although I definitely haven't used both.

If you had used both you would see how they are different.
Formasurge rashes and irritates the skin. I can link at least 6 threads with pictures online I have read about this.
Formeron will NEVER irritate the skin. IN fact we include aloe and vit E to condition the skin.

Formasurge is an oily fluid that is messy and spills all over the place. It also takes forever to dry.
FOrmeron is a gel that goes on easy, clean, clear and dries instantly.

FOrmasurge smells like chemicals because the carrier consists of ...well chemicals, some harmful to the skin.
Formeron smells like flowers.

Even as a BPS rep, if you had used both you could never say formasurge was better. Period.

 

[jimbuick]

If you had used both you would see how they are different.
Formasurge rashes and irritates the skin. I can link at least 6 threads with pictures online I have read about this.
Formeron will NEVER irritate the skin. IN fact we include aloe and vit E to condition the skin.

Formasurge is an oily fluid that is messy and spills all over the place. It also takes forever to dry.
FOrmeron is a gel that goes on easy, clean, clear and dries instantly.

FOrmasurge smells like chemicals because the carrier consists of ...well chemicals, some harmful to the skin.
Formeron smells like flowers.

Even as a BPS rep, if you had used both you could never say formasurge was better. Period.

I don't think I've ever once said Formasurge is better.

But, I'm not seeing a ton of difference. Our product could smell like flowers if we put fragrance in it too.

Formasurge has a ton of feedback showing no issues and easy application, it also has negative feedback with some people claiming tough application and rash.

This is unfortunate, but, like most (read: almost all) products this is to be expected. Not everyone has great results from every product, you should know that.

This is a moot point anyway, since Formasurge has been DCed for various reasons. (including legality of topical products for sale as supplements)


Formeron

Formeron Supplement Facts

Serving Size:**ml
Servings per Container:*120

?**Amount Per Serving% Daily Value4-Hydroxyandrostenedione50 mg***?

* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2000 calorie diet.
** Percent Daily Values not established.

OTHER INGREDIENTS:* Water, Isopropyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Carbomer, Aminomethyl Propanol, Fragrance, Propylene Glycol, Isopropyl Mystrate, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Tocopheryl Acetate, Yellow 5 (Cl 19140), Blue 1 (Cl 42090).



Formasurge:


FormaSurge Ingredients: For External Use Only!

Serving Size:**Pumps
Servings per Container:*120

?**Amount Per Serving% Daily Value

Formestane

50 mg**

Resveratrol

42 mg***?

* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2000 calorie diet.
** Percent Daily Values not established.

OTHER INGREDIENTS:*Isopropyl alcohol, Benzyl Alcohol, octyl salicylate, triglyceride complex, water, d-limonene, carbomer.

 

[Natty22]

I know there it is basically same compound, but I didnt seem to feel the formasurge or get dryer like everyone says about formestane.

 

[jimbuick]

I know there it is basically same compound, but I didnt seem to feel the formasurge or get dryer like everyone says about formestane.

Hmmm, did you notice a drying out effect with other formestane products or is it just that you don't respond well to formestane (IRT the drying out effect of it)?

 

[Natty22]

It is the only formestane product I have used and I used the max amount for a good 3 weeks before deciding it was bunk

 

[brundel]

There are dozens of reviews online for Formeron where users experienced drying and hardening effects.
Most also notice a loss of water weight.
For me I get super vascular and hard at higher doses but my joints start to ache eventually. It starts with what seems like forearm stress...like tense forearms then elbows and shoulders start to hurt.
Same thing happens when I go overboard with asin or adex.

 

[Natty22]

There are dozens of reviews online for Formeron where users experienced drying and hardening effects.
Most also notice a loss of water weight.
For me I get super vascular and hard at higher doses but my joints start to ache eventually. It starts with what seems like forearm stress...like tense forearms then elbows and shoulders start to hurt.
Same thing happens when I go overboard with asin or adex.

Not doubting formeron I am doubting formasurge.