Training Split

[AntM1564]

I thought I would ask this here instead of the training forum since splits might be different from those who are natty versus enhanced.

What is everyone doing training wise? I remember a big push for PPL type splits five or so years ago, but it seems like a typical bodybuilding split has made a push lately.

I have followed a PPL routine for a long time, but over the past 6 weeks or so, it seems like I am not recovering as well as I once did. I notice it more with legs. I am not doing too much more volume, so I wonder if its the weights. That is an argument I have seen. The obvious thing too would be intensity techniques. I have added clusters and forced reps (when my girlfriend is training with me) and partials when she is not. I am actually liking that type of training now, which makes me think, even on gear, hitting everything twice per week (especially legs) is too much.

This is not your "which is the best" thread, but rather, I am looking for ideas for what is happening to my training and just to see what others are doing.

 

[HIT4ME]

So, this is something I've been playing with over the past 2 years - and experimenting with a lot of different training protocols. 5x5, doggcrapp, etc. What I have recently settled on is a push, pull, legs split - but only 4 times per week. So, basically, I train the entire body 4 times over 3 weeks.

The second part of this is something I've pulled from DC - exercise rotation. So I will have a "heavy", "medium" and "light" exercise for each muscle. I will try to rotate these so I hit heavy 2X during the 4 weeks and medium and light once each. By heavy, medium and light I am not necessarily talking about weight though - more about overall tax on the system.

For instance - deadlifts are heavy, rack pulls may be a medium (even though they allow heavy poundages they are less stressful IMO) and then hyper-extensions are light. So I may do Deadlifts on the first workout, Rack pulls on the second, deadlifts again on the 3rd workout, and then finish with hyper extensions on the last workout. I can still train hard and go all-out on each exercise, but obviously taking weighted hyper extensions to failure requires far less recovery than doing deadlifts to failure.

Same for legs - squats take a lot longer to recover from than leg extensions or even leg presses.

In this way I feel like I can build in more recovery time while still getting some stimulation for more growth more frequently.

 

[AntM1564]

So, this is something I've been playing with over the past 2 years - and experimenting with a lot of different training protocols. 5x5, doggcrapp, etc. What I have recently settled on is a push, pull, legs split - but only 4 times per week. So, basically, I train the entire body 4 times over 3 weeks.

The second part of this is something I've pulled from DC - exercise rotation. So I will have a "heavy", "medium" and "light" exercise for each muscle. I will try to rotate these so I hit heavy 2X during the 4 weeks and medium and light once each. By heavy, medium and light I am not necessarily talking about weight though - more about overall tax on the system.

For instance - deadlifts are heavy, rack pulls may be a medium (even though they allow heavy poundages they are less stressful IMO) and then hyper-extensions are light. So I may do Deadlifts on the first workout, Rack pulls on the second, deadlifts again on the 3rd workout, and then finish with hyper extensions on the last workout. I can still train hard and go all-out on each exercise, but obviously taking weighted hyper extensions to failure requires far less recovery than doing deadlifts to failure.

Same for legs - squats take a lot longer to recover from than leg extensions or even leg presses.

In this way I feel like I can build in more recovery time while still getting some stimulation for more growth more frequently.

Sounds good. My second leg day is what's killing me. I don't have enough time to recover for the second one.

My second leg day, when I squat on Saturday, I turned into a quad dominant day since my first leg day, I deadlift, and have made it into a hamstring session. However, with the Saturday session, after squats I do banded leg press. Feet low and close to focus on quads, hack squats, low and close feet and not locking out, leg extensions, and light lying leg curls. I've noticed since adding the hack squats is when my recovery suffered and I feel like my hamstrings and glutes are not full recovered for Tuesday's deadlifts.

Even though I have my feet positioned to focus on quads, hamstrings are still going to be hit that day with everything, minus the leg extensions. I was thinking of dropping hacks for more leg extensions.

I'm also thinking that maybe the weight I am moving is just too much to recover from for a 6 day PPL. My first movement is a compound and is based off percentages. Just to put things into perspective, I am regularly squatting 4 plates for reps. I am also thinking that the frequency of the weight, the volume, and adding clusters/forced reps is too much and I need to stick with one method. I think I need to either go with less frequency (bro split) with the weight I use and failure methods or frequency with a little volume and no intensity techniques.

 

[HIT4ME]

I am a big believer in limiting volume and frequency and keeping the intensity high. If you are truly training to failure and beyond with forced reps, etc. - most naturals will have a problem handling it at some point.

With my layout above, I only do one set - but it is a triple drop set to failure at each drop. Honestly, it is about all I can handle if I am able to muster the intensity.

If you are not improving, then what is the point of doing more? Too many people just have to believe they are working hard because they do a certain volume or do so many workouts per week.

 

[HIT4ME]

Also, squatting 405 for reps is pretty intense - of course as you lift more and more weight you may need to adjust the volume do compensate for the additional systemic strain.

 

[Whisky]

Ok so I’ll come at this from a different angle (as @HIT4ME has given some good stuff above and for me personally I’d need to see a detailed workout log over a sustained period to really get into it from a training standpoint).

my question would be around whether you can improve your recovery?

obviously I know your experienced and been doing this for time so you’d have acknowledged any obvious detrimental factors but had anything crept in subtly? More pressure at work? sleep good?

more likely this could simply be an age thing, both actual age and training age. We simply don’t recover like we used to in our early 20’s so more has to be put into this side.

I'm a million miles from perfect on this but the following are what I consider to be worth looking at to improve recovery:

more sleep
Better quality sleep
Cold thermogenesis
Cold/hot contrast therapy
Foam rolling, ems, massage gun etc
Supplements (anti inflammatory, joint health etc)