TomCat's H-Drol

[Ziquor]

Thats about right. I"m dosing 20/20/10/10 myself.

I'll let you know how that works - you'll know before you start your cycle.

x2 Timber's right on here, especially with Halo. 20/20/10/10 is ideal. Also if you opt for the SERM there's no need to use the ATD (Novedex). I actually try to stay away from ATD during PCT as it's steroidal & can be suppressive. Also at certain doses it acts like an anti-androgen and kills libido.

 

[TimberLakers]

x2 Timber's right on here, especially with Halo. 20/20/10/10 is ideal. Also if you opt for the SERM there's no need to use the ATD (Novedex). I actually try to stay away from ATD during PCT as it's steroidal & can be suppressive. Also at certain doses it acts like an anti-androgen and kills libido.

And who the f*** wants to kill libido...?

 

[freezito]

good read on the 4ad and helping with lethargy. i have three bottles sitting her of the old school stuff. Im glad i kept it around.

 

[Ziquor]

good read on the 4ad and helping with lethargy. i have three bottles sitting her of the old school stuff. Im glad i kept it around.

Original 4AD, you lucky *******

 

[crazyfool405]

x2 Timber's right on here, especially with Halo. 20/20/10/10 is ideal. Also if you opt for the SERM there's no need to use the ATD (Novedex). I actually try to stay away from ATD during PCT as it's steroidal & can be suppressive. Also at certain doses it acts like an anti-androgen and kills libido.

ATD is a steroidal inhibitor, it also acts as an anti androgen,

PCT tabs are a better choice over novedex, but dosing halo at 50mg for 4 weeks you wont need a SERM just a strong OTC PCT product

some people like to overdue PCT on mild compounds. even Testostolyze and Primal Male (or HemoTest) would be sufficient

 

[TimberLakers]

ATD is a steroidal inhibitor, it also acts as an anti androgen,

PCT tabs are a better choice over novedex, but dosing halo at 50mg for 4 weeks you wont need a SERM just a strong OTC PCT product

some people like to overdue PCT on mild compounds. even Testostolyze and Primal Male (or HemoTest) would be sufficient

Just going to point out that the above in an opinion. It's your body... HDrol might be comparatively mild... but its still a steroid.

 

[KgTomCat]

x2 Timber's right on here, especially with Halo. 20/20/10/10 is ideal. Also if you opt for the SERM there's no need to use the ATD (Novedex). I actually try to stay away from ATD during PCT as it's steroidal & can be suppressive. Also at certain doses it acts like an anti-androgen and kills libido.

Then wut would I do with the Novadex XT? I was thinkin 20/20/10/10 cuz H-Drol is mild, and last time I took it I had no bad symps (gyno, hair loss, etc) Wut would be a good OTC PCT? Now wut about the Mass FX? You said to bridge it into PCT 10-14 days? How does that effect Mass FX?

Also, I got some Liver Support...Im preloading Hawthorne Berry 2 weeks before cycle, and running Liver Care while on cycle, and Milk Thistle in PCT, is that enough for the liver?

 

[TimberLakers]

I can't sub this anymore... Ziq already told you he recommends a SERM. If you want an OTC PCT, PM the fool from post #55. He'll help you grow some tits.

 

[KgTomCat]

Thats about right. I"m dosing 20/20/10/10 myself.

I'll let you know how that works - you'll know before you start your cycle.

sounds good man

 

[KgTomCat]

I can't sub this anymore... Ziq already told you he recommends a SERM. If you want an OTC PCT, PM the fool from post #55. He'll help you grow some tits.

the first time I ran H-50, only PCT I did was Mass FX, no gyno

 

[KgTomCat]

so ur saying all I'll need is 20/20/10/10 of Nolva? Nothing else

 

[TimberLakers]

so ur saying all I'll need is 20/20/10/10 of Nolva? Nothing else

No, I'm not saying that it ALL you need. I'm saying THAT is your SERM.

Read the first post of my log. You'll see my PCT. Granted it's a bit overkill - but at least my ass is covered.

 

[KgTomCat]

No, I'm not saying that it ALL you need. I'm saying THAT is your SERM.

Read the first post of my log. You'll see my PCT. Granted it's a bit overkill - but at least my ass is covered.

ok, safer than sorry is always good. sorry man, but would a 'overkill' PCT effect ur gains?

 

[delsolrob]

I guess I don't understand the purpose of this thread, it's not a log. It looks like you're trying to create a thread because you don't want to do the research required on your own...hopefully people will just put all the answers in your thread.

TomCat, it seems like you're missing some serious knowledge that would be good to know when cycling...start reading (searching) about PCT and cycling, support supps, etc!

when I said that I think it's scary that you're cycling in timbers log it wasn't because you're OCD but uneducated about cycling...you're asking some questions that someone that's cycling should already COMPLETELY understand.

this isn't meant to be rude, but it seems like some of the folks on here are getting frustrated that you don't seem to have a grasp of some basic concepts.

the first time I ran H-50, only PCT I did was Mass FX, no gyno

the above is not good logic and causes people problems all the time

ok, safer than sorry is always good. sorry man, but would a 'overkill' PCT effect ur gains?

no, some people will continue to get gains if they have a propper PCT.

so ur saying all I'll need is 20/20/10/10 of Nolva? Nothing else

start reading :http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

Then wut would I do with the Novadex XT? I was thinkin 20/20/10/10 cuz H-Drol is mild, and last time I took it I had no bad symps (gyno, hair loss, etc) Wut would be a good OTC PCT?...

just to make sure, you know that Novadex XT is not the same thing as Nolva...right?

 

[GMG760]

Aren't you the same KgTomCat that's subbed to Timbers log? Or another one...

:lol:

OK EVERYONE. Go back and read through the log if you are confused. You don't have to read the jokes (albeit they are funny as hell) just look at the posts that he has for his workouts. They are easy to tell the difference.

If you have multiple specific questions:think:, send him a PM or start your own log. :toilet:

I think our next cycle should be:

methyltrienoxymethohalotestanandroboldabol.

Who's got the balls to run this sh*t with Timber and I? We have liver transplants on ice and a surgeon waiting in the wings...

 

[TimberLakers]

I found another really solid website with good information on oral steroid cycles and OTC / non-existant PCTs. Check it out.

www.njguido.com

"Look ma, no gyno!"

 

[crazyfool405]

Just going to point out that the above in an opinion. It's your body... HDrol might be comparatively mild... but its still a steroid.

as it is its more anabolic,you can get away with a stong OTC product,

Hdrol and epi ran at the RECCOMMENDED dose with a stong OTC product will suffice in most cases.

 

[crazyfool405]

I can't sub this anymore... Ziq already told you he recommends a SERM. If you want an OTC PCT, PM the fool from post #55. He'll help you grow some tits.

your funny with just running your SERM there buddy, have fun with some estrogen rebound and lowering your IGF1 and hinder your gains.

and truth be told bro, OTC products are there for use becuase MOST (not all work) work. from these the best thing to run

testostolyze with HemoTest, and youll be fine! your running a low dose, dont let this fool whos trippling the dose give you his PCT its not neccasary.

 

[TimberLakers]

as it is its more anabolic,you can get away with a stong OTC product,

Hdrol and epi ran at the RECCOMMENDED dose with a stong OTC product will suffice in most cases.

Again, another opinion that 90% of AM doesn't share with you... Take it for what its worth.

 

[TimberLakers]

your funny with just running your SERM there buddy, have fun with some estrogen rebound and lowering your IGF1 and hinder your gains.

and truth be told bro, OTC products are there for use becuase MOST (not all work) work. from these the best thing to run

testostolyze with HemoTest, and youll be fine! your running a low dose, dont let this fool whos trippling the dose give you his PCT its not neccasary.

I never recommended a Nolva only PCT. Try actually putting this *hit together.

Not really much sense in arguing with you. I gave my opinion.

 

[Ziquor]

your funny with just running your SERM there buddy, have fun with some estrogen rebound and lowering your IGF1 and hinder your gains.

and truth be told bro, OTC products are there for use becuase MOST (not all work) work. from these the best thing to run

testostolyze with HemoTest, and youll be fine! your running a low dose, dont let this fool whos trippling the dose give you his PCT its not neccasary.

All SERM's AND AI's lower IGF levels except formestane, exemstane, and other supressive steroidal AI's.

Estrogen rebound from AI's has happened quite often since they supress all estrogen via aromatase. I've never seen rebound from a SERM as they leave proper estro levels circulating. If you have cases of rebound/gyno from SERM's please post your evidence, thanks.

 

[Ziquor]

BTW Fool, if you research a bit more you'll find that some ppl lose a pound or two in PCT with a SERM because it decreases water retention. Not muscle loss, water. And even though SERMs (and regular AI's for that matter) lower IGF, it's not enough to have losses. With SERM's and a proper PCT you can lose some water weight but muscle mass will stay intact if you do everything else right. :thumbsup:

 

[crazyfool405]

All SERM's AND AI's lower IGF levels except formestane, exemstane, and other supressive steroidal AI's.

Estrogen rebound from AI's has happened quite often since they supress all estrogen via aromatase. I've never seen rebound from a SERM as they leave proper estro levels circulating. If you have cases of rebound/gyno from SERM's please post your evidence, thanks.

i dont believe that all AIs lower IGF 1, if they do its not as signifigant, as it is with nolva.

they dont suppress all estrogen, they suppress MOST, the stop the conversion ,

and as far as PCT is concerned yea you lose some water, but when done properly some people can even gain even into PCT.

And a lot of people do get a rebount from an AI, but people also get them from serms.

this is going in circles.

 

[Disturbed]

No one here that has a clue will tell you to forego a legit SERM.

Some of you really should read dinoii (dr houser) articles on PCT on another board he posts on.I have the link if anyone would like to PM.I'm guessing that's not against the forum rules.

 

[GMG760]

your funny with just running your SERM there buddy, have fun with some estrogen rebound and lowering your IGF1 and hinder your gains.

and truth be told bro, OTC products are there for use becuase MOST (not all work) work. from these the best thing to run

testostolyze with HemoTest, and youll be fine! your running a low dose, dont let this fool whos trippling the dose give you his PCT its not neccasary.

Watch who you call a fool, fool.:FUfinger:

Don't let this guy lie to you dude. You need a SERM when running these compounds. Doing it w/out one is playing with trouble. You don't need a high dose, but you need a SERM. Don't risk it with your body. Even if you don't run it, you gotta have it on hand in case you get a case of gyno.

It's your choice dude. It would suck if you were gyno prone and were left up a creek w/out a paddle.

 

[TimberLakers]

And just to be clear, we also recommended an AI, just two weeks into PCT.

 

[KgTomCat]

Im gonna go ahead and read the thread, No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT, it seems all this has done has started a big argument to see who knows the most when all I wanted to do was get some simple information. thank you for what you have helped me with so far though

 

[KgTomCat]

And just to be clear, we also recommended an AI, just two weeks into PCT.

im going to do Mass FX 10 days into PCT

 

[Ziquor]

the first time I ran H-50, only PCT I did was Mass FX, no gyno

And you're asking over and over why you lost much of your gains - are you serious??

 

[Ziquor]

Some of you really should read dinoii (dr houser) articles on PCT on another board he posts on.I have the link if anyone would like to PM.I'm guessing that's not against the forum rules.

I've read it long ago. He's also posted against using an AI (mainly ATD) during Superdrol PCT on BB dot com

 

[KgTomCat]

I've read it long ago. He's also posted against using an AI (mainly ATD) during Superdrol PCT on BB dot com

He says not to take an AI, did he only mean in PCT for SD?

 

[Ziquor]

He says not to take an AI, did he only mean in PCT for SD?

The actual 100+ page thread is specifically about SD PCT. Him and another doc (amongst others) seem to recommend a SERM only and are especially against the use of ATD. I can't say I don't agree.

 

[KgTomCat]

you suggest a AI and a SERM...Mass FX and Nolva

 

[Ziquor]

For SD a SERM only seems to be the most well tolerated.

 

[KgTomCat]

ok, Im going to be doing H-50, not SD, same principle?

 

[TimberLakers]

Ziq... step AWAY from the mouse.

 

[Ziquor]

Ziq... step AWAY from the mouse.

:aargh: dammit it's too late... :saw:

 

[GMG760]

ok, Im going to be doing H-50, not SD, same principle?

Yes dude.

Get some Tamoxifen Citrate <--- what the brand nolvadex actually is. A SERM. NOT NOVADEX XT!

Get some Diesel Test Hardcore... its trib and other natty test boosters. You're balls will thank you.

Use cycle support or similar support supplements from 2 weeks prior to running the compound through PCT.

If you think you need cortisol control, probably more on super than halo, take Lean Xtreme.

You are good to go.:thumbsup:

 

[TimberLakers]

^^^^ and some 6-oxo for an AI

 

[KgTomCat]

Yes dude.

Get some Tamoxifen Citrate <--- what the brand nolvadex actually is. A SERM. NOT NOVADEX XT!

Get some Diesel Test Hardcore... its trib and other natty test boosters. You're balls will thank you.

Use cycle support or similar support supplements from 2 weeks prior to running the compound through PCT.

If you think you need cortisol control, probably more on super than halo, take Lean Xtreme.

You are good to go.:thumbsup:

thanx

 

[KgTomCat]

^^^^ and some 6-oxo for an AI

run the 6oxo for the last 2 weeks of PCT? or 300/200/100-3 weeks

 

[TimberLakers]

run the 6oxo for the last 2 weeks of PCT? or 300/200/100-3 weeks

::smacks head::

 

[KgTomCat]

sorry, I wanna know the specifics

 

[crazyfool405]

Watch who you call a fool, fool.:FUfinger:

Don't let this guy lie to you dude. You need a SERM when running these compounds. Doing it w/out one is playing with trouble. You don't need a high dose, but you need a SERM. Don't risk it with your body. Even if you don't run it, you gotta have it on hand in case you get a case of gyno.

It's your choice dude. It would suck if you were gyno prone and were left up a creek w/out a paddle.

its tru its good to have one on hand, never any question about that,

but those compounds are so mild in nature (given the doses and weight that he is) that its most likely not nesecary to use one with PCT,

nolva is fine at those doses, i just dont feel its nesacary

you and i both no that people over play PCT alot with the combination of serms (which dont synergize eachother anyway) and the over use of AIs (which only will hirt libido) and not doing them properly.

and if he were gyno prone, (which on Hdrol gyno is unlikely because of the chloro on the 4th position which inhibits it from aromatizing) then an AI could even help with that.

 

[GMG760]

its tru its good to have one on hand, never any question about that,

but those compounds are so mild in nature (given the doses and weight that he is) that its most likely not nesecary to use one with PCT,

nolva is fine at those doses, i just dont feel its nesacary

you and i both no that people over play PCT alot with the combination of serms (which dont synergize eachother anyway) and the over use of AIs (which only will hirt libido) and not doing them properly.

and if he were gyno prone, (which on Hdrol gyno is unlikely because of the chloro on the 4th position which inhibits it from aromatizing) then an AI could even help with that.

Yea dude, people also said that Epi wouldn't cause gyno and I know a few people who got it from the compound.

 

[KgTomCat]

IDK wut to say to now...

 

[crazyfool405]

Yea dude, people also said that Epi wouldn't cause gyno and I know a few people who got it from the compound.

improper PCT most likly

 

[GMG760]

IDK wut to say to now...

Here is what to do.

Go to Timber's thread. Read his VERY FIRST POST. Copy his program and supplements for the cycle and PCT. You don't have to dose all the way to 150mg if you don't want to. 100mg does most people just fine. You will be fine.

 

[KgTomCat]

okay...im ordering my Cycle Support right now, Chocolate, I want to offer a HUGE apology! All I need to know is when to take everything, A.M. & P.M., but thats self explanatory

 

[TimberLakers]

okay...im ordering my Cycle Support right now, Chocolate, I want to offer a HUGE apology! All I need to know is when to take everything, A.M. & P.M., but thats self explanatory

You'll need two jars of cycle support for a 6 weeker champ... One dose in the AM one in the PM... Get whichever flavor, they both taste like urine. Make sure you order enough H-Drol as well (2 will probably be fine)...

You don't need to preload cycle support IMO, its cheaper just to take a little Hawthorne and Thistle 10 to 14 days before.