Third Cycle - Msten

[blongo804]

Hey everyone,

Since I like to log this stuff, i'll throw this one up for all who want to follow along. Previous cycles are DMZ solo, and DMZ+Dermatrest with the latter being much better in terms of everything. I may or may not throw TD trest ace into this cycle. Kind of scared of full shutdown/tough recovery from trest ace. We'll see. Any opinions there are welcome.

27yrs old, 6'0 height

Weight: 197lbs - i'll post official weight on cycle start date. This week is a deload week at the gym and i'm eating a bit less alongside it. For reference, I woke up two days ago 200.8lbs, today I'm 197.0 lol. I literally only cut out one cup of rice starting those two days ago. My body is super easy to manipulate which is both good and annoying.
Official starting weight: 202.0lbs

Plan: Size and strength. Simple as that. After cycle plan - keep as much as possible!!

Cycle:
MSten - 16/16/16/16/16/16 + 16/16 if I can make it

On Cycle:
CEL Cycle Assist - full dose every day
CEL TUDCA - 500mg every day - I may save this for PCT since some seem to argue TUDCA is better used in PCT. My liver doesn't take any actual beating otherwise since I don't drink lol.
SNS Inhibit P if I do use trest

PCT:
Nolva and Clomid on hand. I think I'll go with Clomid at 50/50/25/25 +25/25 if I throw trest ace into the mix.
Prami and Exem on hand as well.

Diet:
Current macros: 265p 345c 63f. I've been hovering around 200lbs daily on these macros + one cheat meal a week, so we'll call them maintenance.

New macros planned: 275p 410c 63f. I plan on using these macros + one cheat meal a week throughout the whole cycle.

Food sources (in no order):
Chicken, beef, potatoes, rice, bread (English muffins, bagel), fruit spread, honey, Greek yogurt, nuts (cashews or almonds), rice krispy treats, cereal, banana, protein powder, peanut butter

Training:
5 days a week - Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri/Sat. Each day has a barbell compound lift to start (bench, squat, overhead press, trap bar deadlift). After that is hypertrophy with dumbbells/machines for 4-5 sets of 10-15 reps with maybe 4-6 different movements.

I like to be pretty thorough (if you haven't already noticed!) and I'm very "robot" like. Every day is basically the same for me in terms of diet and training and I like to think I'm decent at holding myself accountable to that.

Blood was drawn today and the results will be in my next post when I receive them tomorrow. Planning to start Msten dose this Saturday, 11/23 if results look okay.

 

[blongo804]

 

[boooosted]

Subbed. I enjoyed following your last couple logs. I haven't used MSten but would imagine quite a bit of lethargy going for 8 weeks. Is this what will decide if you run the trest or not?

 

[Cmseabee24]

In for results. That’s a pretty hefty dose for 8 weeks hopefully you can make it.

 

[timberx]

Subbed.

 

[jdey12]

Subbed! Looks great. A friendly suggestion: as your cycle goes further along, and more lean tissue is added, you might want to increase your carbs to better accommodate and promote more growth. For example, increase carbs 25g after every (week 1 410c, week 2 435c, week 3 460c, etc)

 

[manifesto]

In.

What brand msten?

 

[Segansational]

Subbed, seems like this will be very detailed. That 2nd cycle sounded like fun, how much weight did you put on for that one?

 

[blongo804]

Subbed. I enjoyed following your last couple logs. I haven't used MSten but would imagine quite a bit of lethargy going for 8 weeks. Is this what will decide if you run the trest or not?

Yeah I have a feeling the lethargy will hit hard. It didn't hit at all using DMZ+dermatrest. By week 7 at 45mg DMZ with dermatrest, I was ready to keep going lol.

I'm kind of just torn on trest ace right now. One part of me wants to run, the other part is just afraid of a hard shutdown. The DMZ + dermatrest run required 4 weeks of nolva and 4 weeks of clomid (about a month after realizing I felt like crap) to feel better again.

In for results. That’s a pretty hefty dose for 8 weeks hopefully you can make it.

Say your prayers lol. Thanks for joining!

Subbed! Looks great. A friendly suggestion: as your cycle goes further along, and more lean tissue is added, you might want to increase your carbs to better accommodate and promote more growth. For example, increase carbs 25g after every (week 1 410c, week 2 435c, week 3 460c, etc)

That's not a bad plan. 25g carb increase week over week won't be too difficult I don't think. Should I go increase based on weight gain or think I should just go for it?

In.

What brand msten?

PRE.

Subbed, seems like this will be very detailed. That 2nd cycle sounded like fun, how much weight did you put on for that one?

Here's some weight figures I found in my log actually.

Weight on 1/14/19 (start) = 193.6lbs
Peak weight gained = 21.8lbs on 3/5 (215.4lbs)
Total weight gained after PCT = 12lbs

Right now at 197lbs I look about as big if not bigger than my cycle peak weight, maybe just not quite as muscularly hard, so I'm excited to see where this goes!

Also, bloodwork posted. My MCHC is just a tick high. Anyone have thoughts on that? My last bloodwork five months ago has MCHC at 33.8.

 

[Ironpirate]

Yeah I have a feeling the lethargy will hit hard. It didn't hit at all using DMZ+dermatrest. By week 7 at 45mg DMZ with dermatrest, I was ready to keep going lol.

I'm kind of just torn on trest ace right now. One part of me wants to run, the other part is just afraid of a hard shutdown.

If you do decide to go with the td trest ace, keep that dosage low. I've played around with it at several different dosages and i feel like 15mg a day is more than enough for test base purposes.

 

[blongo804]

If you do decide to go with the td trest ace, keep that dosage low. I've played around with it at several different dosages and i feel like 15mg a day is more than enough for test base purposes.

That's actually exactly what I was thinking would be good, so I'm glad to hear your thoughts. Thank you!

 

[blongo804]

My E is also a bit higher than it usually is. 5 months ago it was 25.9. Am I becoming a woman? lol

Honestly right now my libido feels pretty high as does confidence in and out of the gym. Maybe this is good E level for me.

 

[manifesto]

Estrogen gets a bad rap...u need it...and that is a perfectly fine level

 

[blongo804]

Estrogen gets a bad rap...u need it...and that is a perfectly fine level

Awesome!

Any thoughts on my MCHC being 2 points higher than last bloods (35.8 vs 33.8)? It doesn't seem like a lot, but 35.8 puts me in "high" territory. Anyone can feel free to chime in.

 

[jdey12]

I’d say go for the 25c increase regardless every week and see how it treats you! You might need more. You’re main goal is strength and quality mass, then that should help achieve it. Nutrition partitioning is a huge benefit of anabolics, reap the benefits!

 

[blongo804]

I’d say go for the 25c increase regardless every week and see how it treats you! You might need more. You’re main goal is strength and quality mass, then that should help achieve it. Nutrition partitioning is a huge benefit of anabolics, reap the benefits!

Sounds like a solid plan as long as I can stomach it!

 

[blongo804]

Current physique nudez for the bois. Clearly fully flexed selfie. This was this morning, about 10 hours fasted from dinner last night. Oh and somehow at 199.8lbs lol.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Keep an eye on your kidneys man, with your BUN being high and you’re creatinine levels near top end you gotta be careful. Def get Post cycle bloods and please drink a lot of water. Kidneys don’t regrow like the liver does. Msten isn’t particularly nice in the liver or kidneys either

I would say at most 6 weeks. The lethargy will be rough around weeks 3 and 4 depending on the dose. I know when I went up to 30mg a day I was fucked after 2 weeks.

 

[blongo804]

Keep an eye on your kidneys man, with your BUN being high and you’re creatinine levels near top end you gotta be careful. Def get Post cycle bloods and please drink a lot of water. Kidneys don’t regrow like the liver does. Msten isn’t particularly nice in the liver or kidneys either

I would say at most 6 weeks. The lethargy will be rough around weeks 3 and 4 depending on the dose. I know when I went up to 30mg a day I was fucked after 2 weeks.

Yeah BUN and creatinine are odd to me as well. I drink a lot of water, but I didn't drink a bunch the night before. I usually have 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 gallons a day, so I'm not sure what's up with that exactly.

Here's my bloods from about 5 months ago. BUN always seems a little high. Possibly from my morning fast and not having a lot of water before bloodwork?

I always do bloods basically upon waking. Just wake up and get drawn, not much water, if any.

 

[blongo804]

According to this week's test, apparently I was also successful in getting test back up by doing another round of PCT after my dermatrest/DMZ cycle. At least that's going for me lol.

 

[Smont]

As far as your concern with shutdown from trest, after 8 weeks of msten you should have pretty much no testosterone left so I don't think there's any reason to not include trest if thats your only concern

 

[ChocolateClen]

Yeah BUN and creatinine are odd to me as well. I drink a lot of water, but I didn't drink a bunch the night before. I usually have 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 gallons a day, so I'm not sure what's up with that exactly.

Here's my bloods from about 5 months ago. BUN always seems a little high. Possibly from my morning fast and not having a lot of water before bloodwork?

View attachment 188632

I always do bloods basically upon waking. Just wake up and get drawn, not much water, if any.

If BUN has been high for a while then you need to be EXTRA careful and you need to take way more on cycle support. Prolonged high BUN and creatinine levels could signal kidney tissue damage.

Water wouldn’t really impact BUN, since it’s more about the nitrogen content in your blood. So this shows how well your kidneys can filter out nasty stuff in your blood. Unless you’re severely dehydrated, this shouldn’t be an issue unless there’s something else going on.

Definitely stay on top of it and possibly talk with a doc about it. Kidney damage, unlike the liver, is permanent

 

[blongo804]

If BUN has been high for a while then you need to be EXTRA careful and you need to take way more on cycle support. Prolonged high BUN and creatinine levels could signal kidney tissue damage.

Water wouldn’t really impact BUN, since it’s more about the nitrogen content in your blood. So this shows how well your kidneys can filter out nasty stuff in your blood. Unless you’re severely dehydrated, this shouldn’t be an issue unless there’s something else going on.

Definitely stay on top of it and possibly talk with a doc about it. Kidney damage, unlike the liver, is permanent

I was actually going to make a new thread asking about what support supps everyone takes on top of something like Cycle Assist. Do you have any recommendations + dosages? I was thinking more NAC, more celery seed, more hawthorne berry, and not sure what else. Also not sure of the best dosages. I can make a new thread but anyone in here can feel free to chime in.

Thanks CC for your concerns. Definitely raised my awareness! I may even hold off another week (or more) to get some support supps flowing.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Choline Biterate
Institol
Orange Triad +greens
TUDCA

For BP (because high no damages kidneys as well)
Hawthorn
Cialis
Carditone

That’s what I take. I’ll probably add NAC in as well when I get ahold of it but for now this is pretty well rounded. I’ll probably even throw some leftover Arimacare Pro in there at the end of it to use that up

 

[blongo804]

Choline Biterate
Institol
Orange Triad +greens
TUDCA

For BP (because high no damages kidneys as well)
Hawthorn
Cialis
Carditone

That’s what I take. I’ll probably add NAC in as well when I get ahold of it but for now this is pretty well rounded. I’ll probably even throw some leftover Arimacare Pro in there at the end of it to use that up

Thank you for the suggestions, CC! I'm really not sure how my kidneys are potentially having issues. From two cycles maybe? Even going way back, 7/12/2018 (before my first cycle), my BUN is at max (20) and creatinine is at 1.15, so also up a bit.

What happened, kidneys!!

 

[ChocolateClen]

Thank you for the suggestions, CC! I'm really not sure how my kidneys are potentially having issues. From two cycles maybe? Even going way back, 7/12/2018 (before my first cycle), my BUN is at max (20) and creatinine is at 1.15, so also up a bit.

What happened, kidneys!!

Could be a lot of factors, could be your cycles, could be BP, could have some genetic condition. Things are temperamental as hell. Just keep an eye on it. Don’t think you need to freak out just yet

 

[blongo804]

Could be a lot of factors, could be your cycles, could be BP, could have some genetic condition. Things are temperamental as hell. Just keep an eye on it. Don’t think you need to freak out just yet

So I do know both of my parents are on prescribed BP meds (or were?). Maybe it's in my genetics to have BP issues, which would be...wonderful!

 

[blongo804]

Here's my original bloodwork. Me, no cycles, same time of day, fasted, for reference sake:

 

[ChocolateClen]

So I do know both of my parents are on prescribed BP meds (or were?). Maybe it's in my genetics to have BP issues, which would be...wonderful!

Blood Pressure is Extremely genetic. That’s probably why mine is so fucked. Since both your parents are on medication for it, if you don’t measure yours then you’re doing yourself a disservice

 

[UNX]

Why TUDCA on PCT only? Being the only compound proven to prevent AAS induced cholestasis (well, UDCA which is very similar) I think it's a must on cycle.

 

[blongo804]

Blood Pressure is Extremely genetic. That’s probably why mine is so fucked. Since both your parents are on medication for it, if you don’t measure yours then you’re doing yourself a disservice

I do have a BP device at home to keep track. I'll have to get in the daily habit, especially while on cycle.

Why TUDCA on PCT only? Being the only compound proven to prevent AAS induced cholestasis (well, UDCA which is very similar) I think it's a must on cycle.

I'll likely use TUDCA while on AND in PCT.

 

[roidsarebad]

In.
Hope it treats you well

 

[blongo804]

Day 1 at the gym with Msten, Day 3 into the cycle.

I did start with 24mg dose. Kind of just want to start "big" dose and stay here throughout. DMZ at 45mg treated me fine, so I expect this will also be fine for the 6-8 weeks.

Anyway, not a whole ton to report. No sides, but I did have a pretty nice pump and sweat going today. My fiance and friend mentioned I was sweating way more than usual and I noticed this myself. Not sure what that was about, but it may simply be the extra carbs I had for pre-workout. I had almost double than usual per my increased carb intake.

I did take my weight and waist measurement in inches (around belly button) this morning to take a starting point. This may include a little bloat from dinner last night (yummy beef stew + a lot of beef stock liquid), but it's at least an estimate.

Results below:

 

[ChocolateClen]

I will just say good luck with the 24mg for 6-8 weeks. That’ll be rough with the appetite suppression. I’d stick with 18 personally if they are 6mg caps or something. Or no higher than 20mg. After 20 the benefits don’t outweigh the sides

 

[Ironpirate]

I will just say good luck with the 24mg for 6-8 weeks. That’ll be rough with the appetite suppression. I’d stick with 18 personally if they are 6mg caps or something. Or no higher than 20mg. After 20 the benefits don’t outweigh the sides

I agree. 16mg total is best for me and others i know.

 

[blongo804]

I suppose I could do 16mg. I imagine there won't be much "loss" in doing one less cap a day (they're 8mg), and I don't want to lose my appetite at any point, that's for sure.

Any benefit to sticking with 24mg/ed for this week to "load up" or should I just dip to 16mg starting today? Only did one cap so far today post-workout.

 

[ChocolateClen]

I suppose I could do 16mg. I imagine there won't be much "loss" in doing one less cap a day (they're 8mg), and I don't want to lose my appetite at any point, that's for sure.

Any benefit to sticking with 24mg/ed for this week to "load up" or should I just dip to 16mg starting today? Only did one cap so far today post-workout.

Nah just drop to 16, less is better man. Don’t want to start off crazy high cause then all you can do it go higher from there. That’s why some guys are on like 3g of test a week and they don’t see the same results as someone on a gram. Body adapts. I always try to use the least possible effective dose that still gives me the benefits I want

 

[blongo804]

Nah just drop to 16, less is better man. Don’t want to start off crazy high cause then all you can do it go higher from there. That’s why some guys are on like 3g of test a week and they don’t see the same results as someone on a gram. Body adapts. I always try to use the least possible effective dose that still gives me the benefits I want

Sounds like a plan! Fortunately I'm only on day 3 at least then. Thanks, CC!

 

[blongo804]

Today was chest/tri's with bench as the primary focus. It went really well considering last week was a deload week. I didn't have seemingly infinite strength like I felt near the middle to end of my trest/DMZ cycle, but we're just getting started here so expectations are low for now.

I will say though, gym aggression and muscle hardness/pumps feels a bit elevated already. No negative sides to note.

 

[blongo804]

Rest day today. Not much to report.

I did a quick weight check today - 201.2lbs. I figured I was a little "heavy" Monday with my 202lb weigh in. So I'm actually down just about a pound after increasing calories lol.

I'm planning to only use the scale/measuring tape as a progress check on Sundays, so each Sunday will be my official weigh in day. I will occasionally weigh myself through the week though..for science!

Thanksgiving tomorrow. You bet i'll be chowing down!!

 

[blongo804]

Shoulders and some back/bicep was on the schedule today with barbell overhead press being the primary move. Finishing up cardio now so wanted to throw some quick thoughts out there.

Woke up at 203lbs this morning, absolutely starving. Gym session went great. I have great energy, solid strength but nothing out of this world for me yet. I'm really feeling the pump come on harder than usual I think as I noted the other day. Feels awesome.

I'm also noticing overall fullness is definitely increasing already. I don't think this is placebo.

One other note - I think the Msten messes with my stomach a bit, even with me splitting the dose at 8mg early, 8mg about 10 hours later. I've been feeling some hard cramping shortly after taking it + eating that meal when I take it. My water intake has been good. My pee is literally clear as day at the end of the night as I'm just peeing out water lol. I'll be keeping an eye on this.

That's all for now. Getting ready to shovel food down in a semi controlled way!!

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

 

[blongo804]

**Double Post**

 

[blongo804]

Boys.. I'm lighter today after Thanksgiving feasts. This is after TWO feasts - one at my parents, one at my fiance's. Holy. I guess I messed up and didn't eat enough lol. Woke up starving at 202.4lbs.

I don't mean the constant weight updates, but kind of wanted to document the first week a little closer, especially with Thanksgiving eating and all. I'm shocked that I'm down half a pound. Msten working some magic?

Anyway, leg day today. Nothing amazing to report. Squats went alright - about as alright as they usually do lol. I threw in some extra chest/tricep work as well as I'm trying to hit all muscle groups twice a week. Tomorrow's schedule is back, bi's and shoulders to complete the first week on msten.

No stomach issues today. All is going well! The full body pump is insane too.

 

[blongo804]

Weigh in: 202.8lbs, so I'm up .8lbs from start of cycle. Kind of shocked to be honest being that it was Thanksgiving week and all. I don't mess around with my diet though. I was right back on track the next day and throughout the weekend.

Saturday was back/bi's/shoulders and went great. Nothing special, not bad. Every lift moved how I anticipated.

Starting tomorrow I'll be eating about 25g more carbs. I'll also have a little extra fat throughout the week since the protein I got is a little more of a "treat" style powder (Merica Labs whey). We'll see how my weight goes now.

Today was a rest day. I did hit the gym for a 40 minute steady state, low intensity cardio session. I don't normally go today but apparently there's a big snow storm coming that may keep me from the gym tomorrow unfortunately. At worst, it may even keep me out Tuesday because I can't get my snow tires on yet. -_-

I'll be back to report more as we go along. No side effects and no upset stomach anymore!

 

[blongo804]

Weigh in: 203.8lbs, up a pound since two days ago.

Today was chest and tri's with emphasis on barbell bench. My bench has been feeling great and I'm making slow strides toward my goal of 300+. Each week I aim for 5lbs heavier on bench with the same or similar rep scheme. For example, if I can do 215 at 3x5 (sets x reps), I aim to do at least 220 3x3 or 5x3 the next week with a target of 3x5. This formula seemed to work for me last cycle where I hit 275lbs for a clean single, so I'm sticking to it again.

Gym aggression seems up. Muscle fullness seems up because the full upper body pump was legit today. I keep waking up very hungry - hungrier than pre-cycle for sure. Eating has been on point, no hunger issues yet.

Can't complain so far. Things are going smoothly.

 

[blongo804]

Update:

Hey everyone! It's been a little bit since my last update, but all has been going great. I'm now up a whopping.. 3.2lbs since the start of the cycle!

Don't let this measly 3.2lbs throw you off though. I feel like my size and strength is increasing every gym session. The pump I'm getting is so intense that my hands almost went numb during one session. It was pretty intense/awesome. Squat/bench/overhead press are moving at a nice pace upward as I planned.

Gym recovery and endurance feels awesome. I feel nearly endless energy even with how much I've been pushing myself lately.

Still no huge sides to report. If anything, I do get random periods of increased heart rate to the point I feel my heart beating faster. Last night while I was trying to fall to sleep is one annoying time this happened, for example.

I'm increasing food this week, but not simply 25g extra carbs. I'm going to eat add an Outright bar a day (around 270 calories total - ~10g fat, ~29g carbs, ~15g protein depending on flavor). I'm hoping this keeps me a bit more satisfied than another X amount of plain carbs would. My hunger is definitely still here.

I'd say I'm a little surprised with how little weight I've gained so far, but Msten is the most "dry" compound I've used so far. I believe on DMZ/Dermatrest I gained 8lbs in a week or less after barely increasing food intake. I'm now on week 3 with Msten and only up 3.2lbs lol.

That's my thoughts for now. I hope they're useful to someone. I'll of course continue with updates as I see fit.

 

[BBiceps]

Update:

View attachment 189140

Hey everyone! It's been a little bit since my last update, but all has been going great. I'm now up a whopping.. 3.2lbs since the start of the cycle!

Don't let this measly 3.2lbs throw you off though. I feel like my size and strength is increasing every gym session. The pump I'm getting is so intense that my hands almost went numb during one session. It was pretty intense/awesome. Squat/bench/overhead press are moving at a nice pace upward as I planned.

Gym recovery and endurance feels awesome. I feel nearly endless energy even with how much I've been pushing myself lately.

Still no huge sides to report. If anything, I do get random periods of increased heart rate to the point I feel my heart beating faster. Last night while I was trying to fall to sleep is one annoying time this happened, for example.

I'm increasing food this week, but not simply 25g extra carbs. I'm going to eat add an Outright bar a day (around 270 calories total - ~10g fat, ~29g carbs, ~15g protein depending on flavor). I'm hoping this keeps me a bit more satisfied than another X amount of plain carbs would. My hunger is definitely still here.

I'd say I'm a little surprised with how little weight I've gained so far, but Msten is the most "dry" compound I've used so far. I believe on DMZ/Dermatrest I gained 8lbs in a week or less after barely increasing food intake. I'm now on week 3 with Msten and only up 3.2lbs lol.

That's my thoughts for now. I hope they're useful to someone. I'll of course continue with updates as I see fit.

Did you log how much stronger you are since you started?

 

[blongo804]

Did you log how much stronger you are since you started?

I log all my workouts actually! Pen and paper to a tee!

That gives me a good thought actually. I can give some week over week progression since my aim is to increase barbell squat, bench and overhead press week over week. Current 1 rep maxes: 275lb bench, 350lb squat, 190lb overhead press. Those were all hit at the end of my DMZ/dermatrest cycle.

I don't like to deadlift really. I constantly bother something in as little as one rep in my lower back that hurts me for up to two weeks. Sucks, but whatever. My deadlift PR is around 425-430lb though for what it's worth.

 

[BBiceps]

I log all my workouts actually! Pen and paper to a tee!

That gives me a good thought actually. I can give some week over week progression since my aim is to increase barbell squat, bench and overhead press week over week. Current 1 rep maxes: 275lb bench, 350lb squat, 190lb overhead press. Those were all hit at the end of my DMZ/dermatrest cycle.

I don't like to deadlift really. I constantly bother something in as little as one rep in my lower back that hurts me for up to two weeks. Sucks, but whatever. My deadlift PR is around 425-430lb though for what it's worth.

Yeah, pls do. I just got some Msten (the sale was too good to pass on) and wanted to know what to expect since it’ll be my first time with Msten, I mainly looking for strength. Thanks!

 

[blongo804]

Yeah, pls do. I just got some Msten (the sale was too good to pass on) and wanted to know what to expect since it’ll be my first time with Msten, I mainly looking for strength. Thanks!

I got you!