The Secret to Bulking

[Al Shades]

well...i do know my '*****' I''m in my second year of medical school. My only problem with what your saying is that is seemed to me as if you were condemning everyones view on bulking.
You are a rare case, one which is fixable, but i don't see why you should have rushed into a bulking thread and lectured everyone on why their bulking theories were wrong when you admit your hormonal problems are far from commonplace?

To me it seems like you just wanted to rush around and convince everyone of your intellectual capabilities, to be honest

Actually, adrenal fatigue is incredibly commonplace. As far as my own problems are concerned, I still don't know what is responsible for my inability to gain weight. It is a mystery which I am still working to solve. It doesn't have to do with my major hormones, because those are all in pretty good shape.

All I'm trying to convince people of is the soundness of my arguments. I stand behind it 100% and I'm not going to budge an inch, because I'm utterly convinced that it is true and applicable to every single person.

Al Shades you describe yourself as a guru of bodybuilding, yet you obviously don't know what the **** you are doing if you weigh 136 pounds. Ever think that the training regiment you have come to adopt is not right for you?

As mentioned already maybe you produce the testosterone of an 11 year old girl. Maybe you should get it checked out if you really feel you are doing everything right. No way do I believe you have reached your genetic potential.

Reading your arrogant posts really busts my balls because you seem to think your take on building muscle is written is stone.
Don't you ****ing dare say you have eating and resting down to an art form. No one on this planet can say that let alone some skinny bastard claiming his theories are unquestionable.

Post some pics of yourself. According to how confident you make your self out to be, you should be at Mr. O next year. There is likely little point on even sharing our thoughts with you as you disregard them and substitute your take on bodybuilding as the right one.

You make some good points but anyone can preach what they think is right without putting in the time to see if it works on themselves. Swallow your ego and try something new if it is not working.

My training regimen is fine. My diet is fine. My rest is fine. Trust me, I have the "bases" covered.

Or don't. I don't really give a ****. *I* know that it's not for lack of effort or knowledge that I haven't been able to gain weight. Furthermore, it hasn't prevented me from making visible gains in muscle mass. As for trying new things, I have basically tried the entire spectrum of training and nutrition methodologies. I have trained as both a PLer and a bodybuilder, I have eaten like a normal person, like a typical bodybuilder, and finally, as I am now.

My total T is over 900. I posted that earlier.

I'll throw up my pics/stats if they contribute to the discussion, but what I won't do

I'm the perfect person to refute this crap theory of massive bulking, precisely because I'm <150 yet eat more calories than 90% of this board.

 

[AZZA]

Actually, adrenal fatigue is incredibly commonplace. As far as my own problems are concerned, I still don't know what is responsible for my inability to gain weight. It is a mystery which I am still working to solve. It doesn't have to do with my major hormones, because those are all in pretty good shape.

All I'm trying to convince people of is the soundness of my arguments. I stand behind it 100% and I'm not going to budge an inch, because I'm utterly convinced that it is true and applicable to every single person.



My training regimen is fine. My diet is fine. My rest is fine. Trust me, I have the "bases" covered.

Or don't. I don't really give a ****. *I* know that it's not for lack of effort or knowledge that I haven't been able to gain weight. Furthermore, it hasn't prevented me from making visible gains in muscle mass. As for trying new things, I have basically tried the entire spectrum of training and nutrition methodologies. I have trained as both a PLer and a bodybuilder, I have eaten like a normal person, like a typical bodybuilder, and finally, as I am now.

My total T is over 900. I posted that earlier.

I'll throw up my pics/stats if they contribute to the discussion, but what I won't do

I'm the perfect person to refute this crap theory of massive bulking, precisely because I'm <150 yet eat more calories than 90% of this board.

This whole bulking thread is defeating its purpose.
AZZA

 

[RenegadeRows]

All of the people I know who have gotten big have done it with a surplus of calories. Even those of us who use anabolics know that in order to get big you have to eat eat eat, even with the help of gear.

It's really not as secret as everyone thinks. I started at 130lbs and yeah it took me a few years to gain 35lbs and figure out what I was doing, but if I can do it anyone can do it.

Al shades maybe you have a tape worm? j/k.

Well take a look at Kobayashi, the eating champion of Japan. That dude eats more food than I thought was humanly possible. Yet he is under 200lbs.

BULKING up, means eating everything you can see and get your paws on. If you train big and eat big you'll get BIG. It works for about 98% of bodybuilders out there. For health reasons you shouldn't do it for very long. I wouldnt recommend eating 2000 calories over maintainence for more than 4-6 months at the most.

Taking time off from eating big will also help when you start up again. The body needs its rest.

No one disputes the fact that food = size. The good debate is between clean vs dirty bulking.

I beleive that the goal of bulking is to put on as much size as possible in the shortest amount of time. Hell thats the fun of it. Leave the health aspect out of this for the time being, let Tony Little worry about fat gain. We're bodybuilders and our goal is to get BIG.

 

[Al Shades]

Normal, healthy individuals are responsive to caloric manipulation. That is, their weight increases or decreases more-or-less in line with their caloric consumption.

For whatever reason, some individuals simply don't respond to caloric manipulation the way that others do. Some people are unable to lose weight, while others are unable to put it on.

The main point I'm making is that there are more important factors to consider before energy balance. You can't just take for granted that someone will be able to bulk up to a certain size if they have been another size for a long time. Their physiological state must support weight change, or weight change won't occur. This is basic stuff, as basic as realizing that a 5'6 tall person will never weigh as much as a 6' tall person at the same BF%.

The other point is that you can't add calories forever. There IS a natural limit which is unique to the individual. Unfortunately, the conventional wisdom has absolutely no way to address this.

Obviously, if you're the type of person who can maintain 190 lbs. with 2,500 kcal/day, then putting on weight is never going to be a problem for you. "Massive bulking" protocols aren't written for these individuals, they are written for the <160 lbers. who are hard pressed to gain weight, even with 3,000 calories a day or more. Therefore, my posts are also written with these individuals in mind.

This is all very simple:

If somebody can't gain weight, there's usually an underlying reason for it, and that has nothing to do with their caloric intake.

Normal people can put on weight without even trying. Surely, most of us see this every day with friends, coworkers, family members, etc...

It's really foolish to tell hardgainers to "shut up and eat more" when their bodies simply won't respond to additional calories the way that a normal person's body would.

You can't reasonably expect to someone to consume 4,000+ calories a day, from relatively clean sources, for a period of years. Yeah, I know there are people who eat twice that much, but they have 30% BF and were born to be that big. They are not ecto/meso's. You better realize that when the ecto stops force-feeding himself he is going to go back to his old weight, fast. That's when you know it's time for a smarter solution. Enter hormone manipulation and metabolic typing. Many things besides caloric surpluses can be done to create an anabolic state and bodybuilders do them all the time. Those are the things that we should be teaching to hardgainers. I'd make a general rule that anyone who is consuming 20 cals/lb. bodyweight and isn't gaining has got other issues going on. You have to draw the line somewhere. My own maintenance is 22kcal/lb. That's probably 75% greater than many of you. And you're just going to sit there and tell me to eat even more - this is all you have to offer? Come on. Join the 21st century.

P.S. This is what I look like. Would you have guessed that I weigh 136 @ 6'?

 

[quigley]

For whatever reason, some individuals simply don't respond to caloric manipulation the way that others do. Some people are unable to lose weight, while others are unable to put it on.

Exactly. Calorie manipulation is not incorrect and never has been. The indiviuals who do not gain weight due to health issues do not gain weight due to health issues- not because the calorie argument is flawed.

So why would you come and say 'your eat more calories crap is a load of bull****' when your really saying some people need medical treatment because medical reasons stop them converting extra energy into new weight?

If your adrenal glands are shot i might suggest a thorough detox to restore balance to your glands and body as a whole? Perhaps a 7-10 day fast with complete supplementation, then 20 days with fresh vegetables, small amounts of meat, preferably fish, healthy fats, making sure no dairy, wheat, yeast are included in the diet, and you'll probably find your health issue which you cannot place a finger on will either dissapear or, as you slowly re introduce foods one by one, have a reaction and you'll be able to pinpoint what aspects of your nutrition could be causing the problem.

 

[EasyEJL]

Obviously, if you're the type of person who can maintain 190 lbs. with 2,500 kcal/day, then putting on weight is never going to be a problem for you.

thats me there. 2500cal a day and start to gain. I really need a thyroid panel done next blood test

 

[Moyer]

You can't reasonably expect to someone to consume 4,000+ calories a day, from relatively clean sources, for a period of years. Yeah, I know there are people who eat twice that much, but they have 30% BF and were born to be that big. They are not ecto/meso's. You better realize that when the ecto stops force-feeding himself he is going to go back to his old weight, fast. That's when you know it's time for a smarter solution. Enter hormone manipulation and metabolic typing. Many things besides caloric surpluses can be done to create an anabolic state and bodybuilders do them all the time. Those are the things that we should be teaching to hardgainers. I'd make a general rule that anyone who is consuming 20 cals/lb. bodyweight and isn't gaining has got other issues going on. You have to draw the line somewhere. My own maintenance is 22kcal/lb. That's probably 75% greater than many of you. And you're just going to sit there and tell me to eat even more - this is all you have to offer? Come on. Join the 21st century.

P.S. This is what I look like. Would you have guessed that I weigh 136 @ 6'?

Actually, if you would ever make yourself eat that much for any long term period (2-3 months), you would find your stomach expanded and your appetite greatly increased.

And dude, check your diet again. 135g carbs is nothing.

If your test levels are already high and you're not gaining weight, steroids will not help you.

BTW, if your adrenals are truly fatigued (if that's even possible) wouldn't you actually get fat easier???

 

[SteelEntity]

Stress can inhibit weight gain to a great extent. When I was younger I was so caught up on getting buff I put my self under tremendous amounts of pressure which mitigates progress on every level of body building. Examine your mental approach to training.

Look at dudes like Arnold and the lifestyle he lived. I really believe part of the reason he was able to train to such an extent was because he was a very relaxed individual who liked his pot, woman and alcohol. He put very little mental stress on his body. Mental stress is a killer, literally.

 

[Al Shades]

Actually, if you would ever make yourself eat that much for any long term period (2-3 months), you would find your stomach expanded and your appetite greatly increased.

Newsflash: Think I haven't heard this before? (Well think again, because every bulking primer on the net states this)

Your stomach doesn't expand forever. Your appetite is not infinite.

Take it from someone who's gone the distance and found out. My stomach/appetite expanded when I went from eating ~1,500 to 3,000 kcal/day. After that, it stopped expanding and simply gave me gas.

135g of carbs is actually a lot given that my "ideal" amount is ZERO. You see, I'm supposed to be on a ketogenic diet. It's only my high maintenance and desire to put on weight that prevents me from doing this. When I'm done bulking I'll cut carbs as low as I can go while maintaining.

BTW, if your adrenals are truly fatigued (if that's even possible) wouldn't you actually get fat easier???

Good question. The answer is no, not necessarily. Adrenal problems are quite complicated. Don't forget, the entire endrocrine system is involved. When one component of the system goes out of whack, the rest of the system becomes skewed as well. We are dealing with hormones here and every "well informed" bodybuilder should have a basic understanding of this.

I posted above about Mary Schwarzbein (endocrinologist) and her fantastic book dealing with metabolic conditions. You should re-read that post.

To sum it up, there are several stages of adrenal fatigue. It's a long process that happens over years, even decades. The first stage is when the adrenals are chronically overworked. Obviously, stress hormones are elevated during this time, as you would expect. This is the stage that I was in and that is associated with most chronically skinny/nervous/addictive types. The personality traits are very easy to spot.

Latter-stage adrenal fatigue is when the adrenals finally give out and stop producing the necessary hormones in sufficient amounts. The patient becomes hypocortisolemnic and corticosteroid administration becomes necessary. I never got to this stage, thank god. It's at this point when the body finally "gives up" and people usually start to put on fat with a vengeance (and subsequently find themselves unable to lose it, no matter what they do).

Many people who had "the fastest metabolisms" and all the symptoms of stage 1 adrenal deficiency in their 20's, end up developing insulin resistance and becoming overweight in their 30's. In fact, this is the standard progression of the illness unless something is done to reverse it.

This is a huge field, I could go on for many pages. But I'll save myself.

 

[Al Shades]

Stress can inhibit weight gain to a great extent. When I was younger I was so caught up on getting buff I put my self under tremendous amounts of pressure which mitigates progress on every level of body building. Examine your mental approach to training.

Look at dudes like Arnold and the lifestyle he lived. I really believe part of the reason he was able to train to such an extent was because he was a very relaxed individual who liked his pot, woman and alcohol. He put very little mental stress on his body. Mental stress is a killer, literally.

You're 100% correct about the effects of stress and I agree with your observation, as well.

Let me put it this way:
There is a HUGE connection between a person's diet, their behavior, and physical characteristics (phenotype). If I've learned anything from studying endocrinology, it's that.

Anybody who denies this as "quack science" has got their head so far up their ass, in my view, that I don't even want to bother addressing them

 

[Moyer]

Newsflash: Think I haven't heard this before? (Well think again, because every bulking primer on the net states this)

Your stomach doesn't expand forever. Your appetite is not infinite.

Take it from someone who's gone the distance and found out. My stomach/appetite expanded when I went from eating ~1,500 to 3,000 kcal/day. After that, it stopped expanding and simply gave me gas.

135g of carbs is actually a lot given that my "ideal" amount is ZERO. You see, I'm supposed to be on a ketogenic diet. It's only my high maintenance and desire to put on weight that prevents me from doing this. When I'm done bulking I'll cut carbs as low as I can go while maintaining.



Good question. The answer is no, not necessarily. Adrenal problems are quite complicated. Don't forget, the entire endrocrine system is involved. When one component of the system goes out of whack, the rest of the system becomes skewed as well. We are dealing with hormones here and every "well informed" bodybuilder should have a basic understanding of this.

I posted above about Mary Schwarzbein (endocrinologist) and her fantastic book dealing with metabolic conditions. You should re-read that post.

To sum it up, there are several stages of adrenal fatigue. It's a long process that happens over years, even decades. The first stage is when the adrenals are chronically overworked. Obviously, stress hormones are elevated during this time, as you would expect. This is the stage that I was in and that is associated with most chronically skinny/nervous/addictive types. The personality traits are very easy to spot.

Latter-stage adrenal fatigue is when the adrenals finally give out and stop producing the necessary hormones in sufficient amounts. The patient becomes hypocortisolemnic and corticosteroid administration becomes necessary. I never got to this stage, thank god. It's at this point when the body finally "gives up" and people usually start to put on fat with a vengeance (and subsequently find themselves unable to lose it, no matter what they do).

Many people who had "the fastest metabolisms" and all the symptoms of stage 1 adrenal deficiency in their 20's, end up developing insulin resistance and becoming overweight in their 30's. In fact, this is the standard progression of the illness unless something is done to reverse it.

This is a huge field, I could go on for many pages. But I'll save myself.

Except that you've never been diagnosed with anything right? You read a book and the symptoms sounded familiar, so you assume that's what's wrong with you?

 

[RenegadeRows]

Your bulking, yet your on a keto diet consuming 0 carbs?

 

[quigley]

Your bulking, yet your on a keto diet consuming 0 carbs?

And you hi jacked a bulking thread to tell us why where all wrong? good for u if u know lots about hormonal issues no one ever said that someone in need of medical treatment should follow our advice.

 

[SteelEntity]

Al Shades brings nothing but negativity to this board. He rants about not being be able to gain weight yet EVERYTHING anyone has suggested he calls a flaw on and says he knows what he is doing. It is ridiculous. Additionally, he hijacks threads with his issue pissing everyone off in the process. Once again, Al Shades go **** off.

:FUfinger:

 

[AZZA]

Al Shades brings nothing but negativity to this board. He rants about not being be able to gain weight yet EVERYTHING anyone has suggested he calls a flaw on and says he knows what he is doing. It is ridiculous. Additionally, he hijacks threads with his issue pissing everyone off in the process. Once again, Al Shades go **** off.

:FUfinger:

I agree, he's a hypochrondriac. Insted of wasting time typing have another protein shake or go and train or go back to sleep. This is going no where.
AZZA:squat:

 

[HolyPower]

:goodpost:

Body maturity is also an important factor.

If you try to go over it, you must take a lot of strong supplement and it's not recommend for young guy's !

It can be simply just not your time to get big...A lot of hard-gainer take acceptable weight when they reach 21 y/o

 

[Al Shades]

Except that you've never been diagnosed with anything right? You read a book and the symptoms sounded familiar, so you assume that's what's wrong with you?

I have been to a doctor and have been diagnosed with mild-to-moderate adrenal fatigue. I have had fairly extensive bloodwork done to qualify this condition. The scans are sitting on my harddrive, I could throw them up here but I've already told you what the results were in previous posts, so I don't really see the point. I'll put them up if anybody is curious.

Your bulking, yet your on a keto diet consuming 0 carbs?

No, not quite.

135g of carbs is actually a lot given that my "ideal" amount is ZERO. You see, I'm supposed to be on a ketogenic diet. It's only my high maintenance and desire to put on weight that prevents me from doing this. When I'm done bulking I'll cut carbs as low as I can go while maintaining.

But even if this was the case, it shouldn't raise your eyebrows. A caloric surplus is a caloric surplus - right?

And you hi jacked a bulking thread to tell us why where all wrong? good for u if u know lots about hormonal issues no one ever said that someone in need of medical treatment should follow our advice.

I "hijacked" nothing. I directly responded to the subject of this thread, thereby provoking the present discussion.

I agree, he's a hypochrondriac. Insted of wasting time typing have another protein shake or go and train or go back to sleep. This is going no where.
AZZA:squat:

Of course it's going nowhere, because you're not prepared to seriously question the dogma of "massive bulking", despite the evidence that contradicts it. If you're waiting for me to simply admit that I'm wrong and that I screwed up somehow, you're going to be here for a long time. I'm not wrong (at least as far as my own results are concerned) and I didn't screw anything up. When I tell you that I need 3,000 calories to maintain 136 lbs., that's totally accurate. Everything I've related on this thread has happened to me in precisely the manner described.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Are you still here

 

[shortstop1616]

Diet makes up approximately 75% of your bodily appearance.

20% traning

5% supplementation

 

[tparisi]

This is basic stuff, as basic as realizing that a 5'6 tall person will never weigh as much as a 6' tall person at the same BF%

So basically a person who is 5'6" 220 10% BF isn't the same as a 6' 220 10% BF person?

 

[SteelEntity]

Al Shades shut the **** up and get the **** out of this forum. You waste our time with your bull****. But being 6'3 140 lbs I'm sure you know what your doing. My 11 year old nephew carries more muscle then you.

 

[pudzian2]

eat eat eat...what B5150 said...oh yea and eat some more.

 

[AZZA]

Al Shades shut the **** up and get the **** out of this forum. You waste our time with your bull****. But being 6'3 140 lbs I'm sure you know what your doing. My 11 year old nephew carries more muscle then you.

Ouch! Very OUCH! I think shades should open up his own thread, list down all his weight/muscle probs and let this thread be.
AZZA
P.S 167 pounds----202 pounds in 4 months, Yeah BABY!!:bb2: :dl: :squat: :bb:

 

[Ryan Leal]

The HIT workouts i've done are good. I have learned from them.

Mentzer was a little out there, but I like Dardens book, it made for a good read.

Although the book I've learned from the most has been Rippetoe's starting strength. A great read!

Im gonna have to say Darden is a retard...it seems as if he likes to go against traditional views to much...i mean he doesnt believe in high protein diets...come everyone know protein is the only macronutrient that can build muscle without u wont build a thing. Another example of his madness is his creatine loading idea. He believes u should mix 25g of creatine monohydrate into a gallon of ice cold water and sip on it throughout the day...everyone knows creatine monohydrate loses stability and becomes useless after ten minutes in water.

 

[pudzian2]

Im gonna have to say Darden is a retard...it seems as if he likes to go against traditional views to much...i mean he doesnt believe in high protein diets...come everyone know protein is the only macronutrient that can build muscle without u wont build a thing. Another example of his madness is his creatine loading idea. He believes u should mix 25g of creatine monohydrate into a gallon of ice cold water and sip on it throughout the day...everyone knows creatine monohydrate loses stability and becomes useless after ten minutes in water.

=creatine bloat-a-hydrate+kidney bomb

 

[nycste]

bulking does this to me. me and my girl.



FIXED

 

[pudzian2]

<<<<blank white picture>>>

 

[nycste]

<<<<blank white picture>>>

FIXED

 

[pudzian2]

bulking does this to me. me and my girl.



FIXED

HAHAHAHAHHA

 

[Moyer]

I have been to a doctor and have been diagnosed with mild-to-moderate adrenal fatigue. I have had fairly extensive bloodwork done to qualify this condition. The scans are sitting on my harddrive, I could throw them up here but I've already told you what the results were in previous posts, so I don't really see the point. I'll put them up if anybody is curious.

Yes I would like to see them. Your details were vague at best and your big cure is Reset AD right?


Since you weren't diagnosed with thyroid disease, I can almost guarantee that a regular multi, plenty of rest, a non-retarded training program, and a good bulking diet (including plenty of carbs) will put muscle on you.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Im gonna have to say Darden is a retard...it seems as if he likes to go against traditional views to much...i mean he doesnt believe in high protein diets...come everyone know protein is the only macronutrient that can build muscle without u wont build a thing. Another example of his madness is his creatine loading idea. He believes u should mix 25g of creatine monohydrate into a gallon of ice cold water and sip on it throughout the day...everyone knows creatine monohydrate loses stability and becomes useless after ten minutes in water.

Good post and agreed

 

[RenegadeRows]

Yes I would like to see them. Your details were vague at best and your big cure is Reset AD right?


Since you weren't diagnosed with thyroid disease, I can almost guarantee that a regular multi, plenty of rest, a non-retarded training program, and a good bulking diet (including plenty of carbs) will put muscle on you.

Well put