The best natty test booster hands down?

[muscleupcrohn]

boron citrate. 10mg per day for 5 weeks. 60% increase in Total T albeit from near bottom of the scale, took me to mid-range. in combination with vitamin D 5000 UI. The vitamin D by itself did nothing but with the Boron, boom! My GP nodded his head approvingly at that latest reading noting the marked change

Also, AlphaMax XT contains 10mg/day boron citrate and 4000iu/day Vitamin D3, plus the ashwagandha and tongkat ali I referenced above, as well as other ingredients. So all test-boosters are useless, right?

 

[ucheoma]

The degree to which ANY NATURAL PRODUCTS contribute to improvements in body composition and performance relative to a solid diet, exercise, and rest (which are obviously the three main factors in any fitness/body goal) is negligible... they're called supplements because they are intended to "supplement," or be added onto a solid diet, training program, and rest. No one is even trying to say that you can out-supplement bad diet or training.

As for what some of these supplements/ingredients can provide when added to a solid diet, training program, and rest, they can certainly provide some nice and useful benefits (even beyond improved libido and mood, which are nice):

Here's some research on ashwagandha (which is found in AlphaMax XT and Testify):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658772/

and forskolin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16129715

Again, there isn't a natural supplement out there that will replace training, diet, and rest; you can't out-supplement any of those three variables and expect success, but some supplements can certainly provide benefits when ADDED TO a solid training program, diet, and rest.

I ask you one question. Have you come across any bloodwork on this board based directly on a member taking Alphamax or Alphamax XT? Given that Alphamax combines several testboosting ingredients would it be unreasonable to expect levels of test increases from Alphamax at least as significant as in the ashwahandha research? In fact I would be expecting a bit more given it's a cocktail of various supplements with purported test boosting properties. Why therefore is there such a lack of real-life bloodwork on this site for Alphamax given its been around for quite some time now? I'd really love to see at least one set of bloods for this 'test booster'. BTW I have run 2 bottles of the OG Alphamax and 2 of the new formulation and felt and noticed nothing significant. which isn't to say it didn't boost my test of course. But I doubt it

 

[ucheoma]

Also, AlphaMax XT contains 10mg/day boron citrate and 4000iu/day Vitamin D3, plus the ashwagandha and tongkat ali I referenced above, as well as other ingredients. So all test-boosters are useless, right?

No. I'm saying in my experience Boron 'worked' for me. Do you have any data showing Alphamax resulting in this level (60-70%) of test increase? You would assume so wouldn't you given it' contains boron + vitamin d3 and more? So why isn't there any data out there. Go on. Show me!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I ask you one question. Have you come across any bloodwork on this board based directly on a member taking Alphamax or Alphamax XT? Given that Alphamax combines several testboosting ingredients would it be unreasonable to expect levels of test increases from Alphamax at least as significant as in the ashwahandha research? In fact I would be expecting a bit more given it's a cocktail of various supplements with purported test boosting properties. Why therefore is there such a lack of real-life bloodwork on this site for Alphamax given its been around for quite some time now? I'd really love to see at least one set of bloods for this 'test booster'. BTW I have run 2 bottles of the OG Alphamax and 2 of the new formulation and felt and noticed nothing significant. which isn't to say it didn't boost my test of course. But I doubt it

Was I reading your previous post incorrectly, or did you say that 10mg/day boron citrate and 5000iu Vitamin D3 for 5 weeks increased your testosterone? You're getting pretty much exactly those doses (10mg and 4000iu) with AlphaMax XT, plus full doses of ashwagandha and forskolin, among other ingredients; why would you doubt that it increased your testosterone? The feedback on the forums for AlphaMax XT is very good. I personally (as a user) am actually not all that concerned with how much it increases my testosterone, as none of these natural supplements are going to increase testosterone to supraphysiological levels, and therefore aren't going to provide the benefits associated with testosterone use and supraphysiological levels of testosterone, obviously. For someone who already has testosterone levels in the normal range (probably the majority of supplement users, at least as a whole if not on this board), I'd be more concerned with the benefits these products can provide besides simply increasing the testosterone # in bloodwork. Many people, and studies, have noted improvements in mood/libido with some of these supplements/ingredients, as well as reductions in cortisol, and improvements in performance/strength/endurance/body composition, which aren't coming simply from increasing testosterone levels within the normal range. For products like AlphaMax XT and Testify, there are many benefits besides simply increasing testosterone #s on bloodwork.

Also, I'm curious, when did you use AlphaMax XT (under what circumstances), and when did you run the boron and vitamin D3?

 

[R1balla]

I ask you one question. Have you come across any bloodwork on this board based directly on a member taking Alphamax or Alphamax XT? Given that Alphamax combines several testboosting ingredients would it be unreasonable to expect levels of test increases from Alphamax at least as significant as in the ashwahandha research? In fact I would be expecting a bit more given it's a cocktail of various supplements with purported test boosting properties. Why therefore is there such a lack of real-life bloodwork on this site for Alphamax given its been around for quite some time now? I'd really love to see at least one set of bloods for this 'test booster'. BTW I have run 2 bottles of the OG Alphamax and 2 of the new formulation and felt and noticed nothing significant. which isn't to say it didn't boost my test of course. But I doubt it

It's very rare for companies to fund blood work and studies on a specific product. Even if they chose some people to use it, that would be such a small sample size. 10 - 20 people? That's not real study. Plus there are so many other factors that lead to gains or no noticeable gains that the companies can not control.

I'm sorry that you did not enjoy alphamax. All supplements don't work the same for everybody. For example: OG Prime by usp labs was a hit or miss product. My bench went up 40 pounds in 8 weeks from use of prime. Then I started to stack it with anabeta and saw some great results. Very unheard of but prime clicked with me.

In my opinion, test boosters shouldn't be ran for only 4 weeks. Most people who log virtually any supplement start seeing something around week 3-4. Not sure how long you ran yours for. But just because you did not like a product doesn't mean it does not work for other people. Alphamax XT is one of the most popular test boosters on the market right now.

 

[ucheoma]

Was I reading your previous post incorrectly, or did you say that 10mg/day boron citrate and 5000iu Vitamin D3 for 5 weeks increased your testosterone? You're getting pretty much exactly those doses (10mg and 4000iu) with AlphaMax XT, plus full doses of ashwagandha and forskolin, among other ingredients; why would you doubt that it increased your testosterone? The feedback on the forums for AlphaMax XT is very good. I personally (as a user) am actually not all that concerned with how much it increases my testosterone, as none of these natural supplements are going to increase testosterone to supraphysiological levels, and therefore aren't going to provide the benefits associated with testosterone use and supraphysiological levels of testosterone, obviously. For someone who already has testosterone levels in the normal range (probably the majority of supplement users, at least as a whole if not on this board), I'd be more concerned with the benefits these products can provide besides simply increasing the testosterone # in bloodwork. Many people, and studies, have noted improvements in mood/libido with some of these supplements/ingredients, as well as reductions in cortisol, and improvements in performance/strength/endurance/body composition, which aren't coming simply from increasing testosterone levels within the normal range. For products like AlphaMax XT and Testify, there are many benefits besides simply increasing testosterone #s on bloodwork.

Also, I'm curious, when did you use AlphaMax XT (under what circumstances), and when did you run the boron and vitamin D3?

Ran Alphamax XT 3 months ago. Not sure what you mean by 'under what circumstances'? Ran and tested on Boron 3 years ago. I still take boron regularly but stopped testing for T when testosterone testing stopped being freely available on th NHS in the UK. Leaving aside test-boosting in individuals with normal T range. Do you have any data for test boosts in men with Low T levels from taking Alphamax? Im not arguing that there aren't potentially any (minuscule in my view) health benefits I'm saying marketing a product as a 'test booster' when there is no direct evidence of this in men with low or normal T levels is a bit misleading. And I'm trying to be polite

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Ran Alphamax XT 3 months ago. Not sure what you mean by 'under what circumstances'? Ran and tested on Boron 3 years ago. I still take boron regularly but stopped testing for T when testosterone testing stopped being freely available on th NHS in the UK. Leaving aside test-boosting in individuals with normal T range. Do you have any data for test boosts in men with Low T levels from taking Alphamax? Im not arguing that there aren't potentially any (minuscule in my view) health benefits I'm saying marketing a product as a 'test booster' when there is no direct evidence of this in men with low or normal T levels is a bit misleading. And I'm trying to be polite

By "under what circumstances," I mean did you use it while bulking, cutting, recomping, etc? Was it part of PCT (if you have used anything that requires PCT), etc; and the same thing for the boron + vit-D.

I just showed you studies where ingredients contained in test boosters like AlphaMax XT and Testify (again, I'm not saying that AlphaMax XT is the only solid product in this category) produced increases in testosterone levels in men with normal testosterone levels, as well as some for men with low testosterone. By your logic, that bloodwork with the finished product is needed to determine if the product is effective, then we can't know if any of these "daily staple" products with creatine and betaine work either, because we haven't ran studies with the finished product, only the individual ingredients. There are many people on this forum who have had positive experiences with test boosters like AlphaMax XT and Testify. Also, as I have said many times before, I find that the benefits extend beyond simply increasing the # on bloodwork (reduced cortisol, which there are many studies on multiple ingredients, improved mood and decreased stress/anxiety, increased libido, improved body composition, endurance, strength, muscle size, etc). I find that many people actually use supplements like AlphaMax XT and Testify for these benefits more than simply increasing testosterone by a few points, as increasing testosterone slightly within the normal range isn't going to provide any of the benefits associated with supraphysiological levels of testosterone. There are multiple studies showing multiple benefits for multiple ingredients in these products. That, combined with the majority of feedback being positive for these supplements, seems to indicate that they are indeed useful and effective. Of course, if you're going in with the expectation that these supplements are magic, comparable to "gear," or can replace training/diet/rest, then you will be very disappointed. Also, as it's been mentioned, not every supplement works for everyone, so I'm sorry to hear that you didn't have a positive experience with AlphaMax XT, which is why I would like to know more about your experience with it, and how those variables compare to your experience with boron + Vitamin D3 (which you seemed to like), as AlphaMax XT contains both those ingredients, along with many others that have been shown to be effective in studies and for users on these forums.

 

[ucheoma]

It's very rare for companies to fund blood work and studies on a specific product. Even if they chose some people to use it, that would be such a small sample size. 10 - 20 people? That's not real study. Plus there are so many other factors that lead to gains or no noticeable gains that the companies can not control.

I'm sorry that you did not enjoy alphamax. All supplements don't work the same for everybody. For example: OG Prime by usp labs was a hit or miss product. My bench went up 40 pounds in 8 weeks from use of prime. Then I started to stack it with anabeta and saw some great results. Very unheard of but prime clicked with me.

In my opinion, test boosters shouldn't be ran for only 4 weeks. Most people who log virtually any supplement start seeing something around week 3-4. Not sure how long you ran yours for. But just because you did not like a product doesn't mean it does not work for other people. Alphamax XT is one of the most popular test boosters on the market right now.

Ran it for 8 weeks. Not sure why you assume i ran for 4. Anyway we're all different. i like to assess evaluate things objectively and for me before and after bloods is a very important metric. For others it seems not so much. Despite my scepticism I'm still open minded and experiment with new 't boosters' now and then whilst keeping faith with the few things IVE found work for me. Plan to run Virtus + OL Super PCT next 2-3 months and saving up for pre and after bloodwork as Ive heard good things about both, moreso Virtus. That's me for now.

 

[R1balla]

Ran it for 8 weeks. Not sure why you assume i ran for 4. Anyway we're all different. i like to assess evaluate things objectively and for me before and after bloods is a very important metric. For others it seems not so much. Despite my scepticism I'm still open minded and experiment with new 't boosters' now and then whilst keeping faith with the few things IVE found work for me. Plan to run Virtus + OL Super PCT next 2-3 months and saving up for pre and after bloodwork as Ive heard good things about both, moreso Virtus. That's me for now.

I didn't assume anything. I was just stating that, in my opinion, they need to be ran for 8 weeks instead of 4 to see the best results and that I wasn't sure how long you ran it for.

 

[luelinks]

AlphaMax XT is really good and back I don't know about other but DAA did very well for me. I was doing 3g/day for and during that time I got blood works done and it made my coach ask me "WTF are you using?" lol but everyone's different

 

[Chefdeez]

There's no real "natural test booster" that will significantly raise T. I got blood work done 2 weeks prior to starting Alphamax XT and then during my 5th week of taking it and my T was actually a few points lower but basically the same (normal range - blood test was for something unrelated). Products may make you feel better and boost libido but very few actually raise T.

 

[Volvo140G]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/285589-nutriverse-2016-olympia.html

Lots of options here, 20% off

 

[ucheoma]

There's no real "natural test booster" that will significantly raise T. I got blood work done 2 weeks prior to starting Alphamax XT and then during my 5th week of taking it and my T was actually a few points lower but basically the same (normal range - blood test was for something unrelated). Products may make you feel better and boost libido but very few actually raise T.

My experience as well. This is the reality of 'test boosters'. A marketing triumph!

 

[Chefdeez]

My experience as well. This is the reality of 'test boosters'. A marketing triumph!

All the reps will tell you how they have blood work showing a huge increase. It's just not possible.

 

[R1balla]

All the reps will tell you how they have blood work showing a huge increase. It's just not possible.

I don't recall any reps saying "x" test booster showing a huge increase in testosterone.

Are there products that you are looking at that you want more information about?

 

[ELROCK]

I don't recall any reps saying "x" test booster showing a huge increase in testosterone.

Are there products that you are looking at that you want more information about?

It's usually in their product write-ups and even right there on the labels.

 

[Chefdeez]

It's usually in their product write-ups and even right there on the labels.

Yes, I've seen it a bunch of times. Wasn't directing that at performax reps it was a general statement.

 

[ELROCK]

Yes, I've seen it a bunch of times. Wasn't directing that at performax reps it was a general statement.

I wasn't directing my statement at any specific company it's just the majority do it.

 

[Chefdeez]

Agreed. Supplement industry is 95% marketing.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Agreed. Supplement industry is 95% marketing/made up claims.

Fixed it

 

[Lynks8]

Interesting discussion. It kind of surprises me that one would label a test-booster utterly worthless unless it can literally boost one's test to supra-physiological levels. On the one hand, I totally get it. I've always been a skeptic and a proponent of science over marketing. The supplement industry is rife with outrageous claims and pixie-dusted b.s. products. We all need to keep our guard up.

Now, having said that, I loves me a good test booster and I absolutely believe they can help certain individuals. Allow me to explain why...(note, these are just my personal thoughts. We all react to various supplements differently.)

1. What drives results? In descending order of importance, I'd say diet, training, and optimized recovery. While this may be slightly over-simplified, I think most would agree.

2. An effectively formulated test booster can definitely have an impact on training, and even, perhaps, recovery.
Training:
The quality of a gym session can be dramatically affected by how one feels going in to it. A little under the weather? Sad/depressed/anxious about something in your life? You're probably not going to have a great workout. Your weights and volume may suffer. On the flip side, if you're feeling awesome, energized, alpha, and frankly, horny, you're probably going to have a better gym sesh. You may find the mental fortitude to go for a couple more pounds on your bench, or an extra couple reps on your squats. This will inevitably translate into better gains, no? For me it's undeniable. When I took Test1fy, I felt great. I was happier, more energetic and more aggressive. Also, let's not beat around the bush, my libido was off-the-charts. When I feel that way, I always have a great workout, and great workouts lead to great gains.
Recovery
There is data linking sub-optimal testosterone levels to various sleep disturbances. When I took Test1fy, I slept like a baby. This will invariably lead to better recovery and furthermore, better testosterone levels. More sleep and deeper sleep = better test. This is, of course, subjective, and I would never claim that a test booster will enhance your sleep, but it did, and does, for me.

3. Those with low test will benefit more than those already at optimal levels. If you're a healthy 22 year-old, you probably won't see much, if any benefit from a good test booster compared to 30+year olds. At 33, I absolutely notice a fairly dramatic difference in the aforementioned areas on LJ100, let alone a more robust product like Test1fy. Additionally, I would hazard a guess to say that there are plenty of guys in their 20's with sub-optimal levels. For them, a test booster with researched ingredients at effective doses may have positive effects.

Ultimately, there is no question that even top-notch test boosters may have little impact on certain individuals. If you're young, healthy, and know you already have optimal t-levels, I absolutely would not recommend a test booster. However, to ascribe this sentiment to anyone and everyone is somewhat short-sighted, imho. If you're like me, you'll feel the effects of a good test-booster, and if you use those effects to positively impact your training, I don't see how that can't help.

These are just my personal thoughts. To each their own. :bigok:

 

[ucheoma]

Quite a lot of inferencing going on here. Lets assume all the assumptions above are correct do you have any bloodwork to corroborate this? Reads like narrative fallacy to me eg it makes me sleep more so test must have gone up. Fine, but where is the data to evidence this was the actual outcome? More aggression in the gym. I'm assuming youre saying this comes from mechanism of test increase? If so once again where is the data, btw there are in my personal experience more effective sleep aids than testboosters. Perhaps we should label these as test boosters as well on the assumption more sleep = more test?

I keep on coming back to the same point. Lots of assumptions based on 3rd party research and lots of inferences but no solid direct tangible data for the products being repped. Not one rep has posted a single number in this thread. I'm not expecting supra-physiological levels of increase. No one expects that. of a natural test booster.

And at 33 believe me you're a spring chicken! I'm 52 so Id definitely know if there were the potentiating benefits of test boosters you allude to.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Quite a lot of inferencing going on here. Lets assume all the assumptions above are correct do you have any bloodwork to corroborate this? Reads like narrative fallacy to me eg it makes me sleep more so test must have gone up. Fine, but where is the data to evidence this was the actual outcome? More aggression in the gym. I'm assuming youre saying this comes from mechanism of test increase? If so once again where is the data, btw there are in my personal experience more effective sleep aids than testboosters. Perhaps we should label these as test boosters as well on the assumption more sleep = more test?

I keep on coming back to the same point. Lots of assumptions based on 3rd party research and lots of inferences but no solid direct tangible data for the products being repped. Not one rep has posted a single number in this thread. I'm not expecting supra-physiological levels of increase. No one expects that. of a natural test booster.

And at 33 believe me you're a spring chicken! I'm 52 so Id definitely know if there were the potentiating benefits of test boosters you allude to.

What I've been saying is that, at least for me personally, knowing that changes in testosterone within the normal range aren't going to yield any of the benefits associated with testosterone use and/or supraphysiological testosterone levels, my question is why someone who already has normal testosterone levels would be that concerned with increasing their numbers while keeping them firmly within the normal range they are already in. Now, that doesn't mean that some of these well-formulated "test-boosters" are useless for people with testosterone levels in the normal range, as ingredients like ashwagandha, forskolin, and tongkat ali have research showing they have multiple benefits for people who already have normal testosterone levels. Since slight increases within normal ranges aren't going to provide much benefits anyway, I'd be (and I am) more concerned with ingredients providing more tangible and/or noticeable benefits, such as improved body composition, strength/endurance, and mood/libido (which many ingredients in some of these products can help with). So, basically, if you already have testosterone levels within the normal range, and you are aware that a natural testosterone booster isn't going to increase your testosterone to supraphysiological levels, then what do you expect to gain from slight increases in testosterone within the normal range anyway? Now, that's not saying that a properly formulated test-booster like AlphaMax XT or Testify is useless for people with normal testosterone levels, as that is not the case, as they can still provide benefits including improved body composition, strength, endurance, libido, and mood; if you notice these effects from using a test booster, and already have testosterone levels within the normal range, how is the product/supplement useless? You're getting benefits that are varied and useful, and they are benefits commonly associated with increased testosterone levels, which I feel can be more important than a small boost in the # on bloodwork that's already within the normal range, no? There is a good amount of positive feedback for some of these test boosters in regards to the benefits I mentioned, so I do not think it is fair to say that they are useless at all.

SUMMARY: Knowing that slight increases in testosterone within the normal range isn't going to do much, and certainly isn't going to provide the benefits associated with supraphysiological testosterone levels, why is there such an emphasis on simply increasing this number a bit within the normal range, where the only way you'd even be able to tell anything is going on is with bloodwork? Instead, why not focus on providing some of the benefits commonly associated with increased testosterone levels; things that can actually be felt and noticed, an things that will have favorable and positive effects on your training, goals, and overall quality of life and wellbeing, such as improved body composition, strength, endurance, libido, and mood? How can products that improve these things be considered useless? With that said, some test boosters do include ingredients that have been shown to increase testosterone levels (ashwagandha, boron, etc).

 

[Lynks8]

Quite a lot of inferencing going on here. Lets assume all the assumptions above are correct do you have any bloodwork to corroborate this? Reads like narrative fallacy to me eg it makes me sleep more so test must have gone up. Fine, but where is the data to evidence this was the actual outcome? More aggression in the gym. I'm assuming youre saying this comes from mechanism of test increase? If so once again where is the data, btw there are in my personal experience more effective sleep aids than test. Perhaps we should label these as test boosters as well on the assumption more sleep = more test?

I keep on coming back to the same point. Lots of assumptions based on 3rd party research and lots of inferences but no solid direct tangible data for the products being repped. Not one rep has posted a single number in this thread. I'm not expecting supra-physiological levels of increase. No one expects that. of a natural test booster.

lol wow. You on a test booster right now bra? You're awfully aggressive. :silly:

I understand where you're coming from. I really do. However, I think your crusade may be slightly misguided. The bloodwork litmus test you keep proposing is based on a reductive premise. It suggests that one must empirically observe significant increases in t-levels to experience the benefits I alleged.

Due to the fact that all I'm looking for from a test booster is increased energy/well-being/libido/aggressiveness, I don't need bloodwork to corroborate that which I can unequivocally determine through subjective analysis. I know what I felt.

Some of the effects I noticed may not even have come about via increased T, but perhaps through boosts in dopamine, adaptogenic stress relief and cortisol reduction (Mucuna Pruriens/Ashwagandha/LJ100). Had I claimed that test-boosters directly impact muscle protein synthesis, I'd agree with you, but that's not what I said.

I gave you my subjective assessment of what Test1fy did for me. The inferences I made are largely inarguable if one experiences the same effects I did. There are plenty of other anecdotal accounts that mirror my experience.

So what you're essentially saying is that you need empirical evidence for these anecdotes, or else we're all liars, and that hurts man.

Furthermore, I added enhanced sleep as one benefit that I noticed. You've honed in on it as if it were the majority of my post. Perhaps I didn't communicate my point very well, so I'll try to be more concise. The primary benefits I observed were "feeling awesome, energized, alpha, and frankly, horny". These are sensations and feelings. My overarching point was that if one feels this way, one is more likely to have better workouts, as I did. That's it.

My claim is very simple: Unless you're young and certain your t-levels are in great shape, you may notice improved energy, well-being, confidence/aggressiveness, and libido. If you experience these sensations, you will likely have better workouts. If you have better workouts, you will experience better muscle growth. Additionally, you may sleep better, which should further assist your recovery and test production. I say these things because a) I experienced them first hand, and b) there is research behind each and every ingredient in Test1fy. If you'd like me to post the studies, done by, you know, doctors and experts, I'd be happy to...but it sounds like that wouldn't be good enough for you.

Lastly, I find it quite interesting that you believe boron directly boosted your testosterone, but Alphamax, which contains boron, did "nothing". The cognitive dissonance here is somewhat perplexing and kinda lifts the curtain on your agenda.

 

[ucheoma]

[Lastly, I find it quite interesting that you believe boron directly boosted your testosterone, but Alphamax, which contains boron, did "nothing". The cognitive dissonance here is somewhat perplexing and kinda lifts the curtain on your agenda.[/QUOTE]

Aggressive? Definitely not from a natty test booster lol:Eyecrazy: Just sharing my experience of 14 years using of 't boosters' . As for lifting the 'curtain on my agenda' we're getting conspiratorial aren't we?:02:, I'm not a rep, in the sup industry or ever been sponsored by one. I have no agenda against any particular product or company. I've used t boosters from numerous companies. Also used non t booster products by Performax and Olympus Labs some of which I liked very much, others not so much. if I had an agenda I wouldn't be spending 5% of my wages on supps each month lol!.If anyone has an agenda it's more likely to be you as a rep with a vested interest in promoting t boosters for the company you represent.

In the last 12 years my T levels have been in the low range . I'm not interested in TRT or using SERMS due to the sides and commitment involved. I have diligently over the years investigated and pursued natural and lifestyle means of optimising my test levels My objective is getting my test into average/mid T range for a person of my age. I'm not looking for supraphysiological anabolic increases . In that process I have used more t boosters than you can imagine to see what might help in this quest. the difference between most users and myself is for a long time I had regular bloodwork to test if my objectives were being met or influenced by these 't boosters'. This is how I know the power of the placebo effect . Id take a t booster imagine heightened libido, aggression, energy, mood etc but then Id take a blood test and go WTF!! Boron has been the one confounding experience and yes, I was as surprised as most would be that this singular substance would have such a significant influence on my t-levels.

I have no agenda to pursue. These are my personal experiences and opinions and why I don't subscribe much to subjective and anecdotal judgements on 'What is the best natty test booster hands down'. T-levels are a for me the primary metric on a t-booster. Others can care to disagree and stick with their subjective judgements and assumptions but I have wasted so much money on t boosters that now I like to see some bloodwork before I buy. This is why I'm going to run Virtus next as there was an excellent log of this with bloodwork.

One of the great strengths of this great board I'm sure you can agree is the plethora of views and opinions you can find on any topic including independent experiences and reps recommendations

 

[horizons]

Alphamax 6 weeks in and had to stop because it absolutely destroyed my libido (can't blame it completely) and actually couldn't get it up with my girl!

Didn't really do much. Felt a bit lethargic on it and libido was placebo for the first few weeks.

Came off it for 3-4 days and bang feel much better. Erections are back and libido is good

I am 33 years old too. Pretty disappointed really, I suppose some products aren't right for some

 

[Lynks8]

Thanks for sharing your background with me. That helps me understand where you're coming from. I'm sorry to hear you've been dealing with Low-T for so long. That sucks, and it makes sense that you would judge a test booster's efficacy strictly by how much it can raise your levels. If I were in your shoes, I'd mostly be thinking the same way.

Now, try to put yourself in my shoes: You've been reading various forums for ~8 years. You've seen a lot of awful companies, and awful reps pushing pixie-dusted products hard. You think to yourself, "Man, I wonder how these guys sleep at night" and you never think you'd want to be a rep. Then, one day, an opportunity arises to join what is in your (my) view, arguably one of, if not the best supp companies around that formulates products based on science and doses them effectively. You're excited to be part of your favorite supp company, but you're terrified of coming off as just another shill. So you do your best to maintain your integrity while repping for this company. Instead of blindly pushing their products based on marketing claims alone, you promote based on your personal experiences and try to help others in general with viewpoints based on science and research. In short, you try to be one of the "good" reps.

Now, imagine you see someone posting that test boosters are worthless. This person fervently and repeatedly maintains that these products don't work. You know you had a truly great experience on Test1fy (before you were even a rep), and so you decide to share that experience and why you think the product may actually be useful for some people. Despite making sure to agree with this poster that it's unlikely these products raise test hugely, and despite sharing what you believe is a VERY carefully and thoughtfully worded post about how improved well-being may translate into better workouts for some people, this user antagonistically calls you out, implicitly labeling you a liar/shill and saying your thoughts are "narrative fallacy".

You also note a pretty substantial hypocrisy. This person claims they had a big test increase on boron, but got nothing out of a product with the same dose of boron, plus a host of other useful ingredients. You think to yourself, this person must have some sort of agenda (not against a certain company, but against these products). Why else would they be making such an illogical claim that's completely incongruent with their own experience? Why else would they crap all over your post that simply shared your subjective experience and thoughts?

To each their own, but I stand by what I said. I, and hundreds of others, have noted improved libido, happiness, confidence, energy, etc while on Test1fy and other well-formulated boosters. I have not, nor would I ever, claim that Test1fy will significantly raise every user's test...I will, however, continue to share my experiences, the science that shows the myriad benefits of the ingredients, and thus, why I think the product may be useful for certain people.

One of the great strengths of this great board I'm sure you can agree is the plethora of views and opinions you can find on any topic including independent experiences and reps recommendations

Wholeheartedly agreed. I would simply add that it would be nice if these views and opinions could be discussed without implicitly or explicitly disparaging the integrity of those who share them.

 

[Lynks8]

On a related note: I know you said you don't want to mess with SERMS due to the sides, but given how long you've been dealing with sub-optimal test...I think you may want to seriously consider a clomid restart. Just a thought.

 

[Chefdeez]

Wait, so are you saying it's perfectly normal for a "test booster" to not actually boost test? What kind of world are we living in? If it doesn't do what it's supposed to; the product doesn't work simple as that.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Wait, so are you saying it's perfectly normal for a "test booster" to not actually boost test? What kind of world are we living in? If it doesn't do what it's supposed to; the product doesn't work simple as that.

Who is this directed at? I'm not saying that a test booster shouldn't boost testosterone, but I am saying that small increases in testosterone while still in the normal range aren't going to do much of anything, and therefore I personally place a higher priority on getting the effects that are commonly associated with increased testosterone (even things that may not be noticed simply by slightly increasing testosterone within the normal range already), such as improved body composition, strength, endurance, mood, and libido. Again, I'm not saying that a test booster doesn't/shouldn't increase testosterone (ingredients like Ashwagandha, Forskolin, and boron have been shown to increase testosterone), I'm saying that I feel there are more important goals and effects from a "test booster" than simply raising a # a few % within the normal range that you couldn't even perceive or notice except for with bloodwork. If you're dealing with low testosterone, it's slightly different, but many of these ingredients are actually more effective at increasing testosterone in people with low-T than in people with normal-T, and still have other benefits besides increasing testosterone.

To word it in another way, if a "test booster" improves mood and libido, as well as body composition, strength, and endurance, does it "not work" if there isn't a significant increase in testosterone? Is it not useful? Are you not getting the effects you want? Conversely, if a test booster slightly increases testosterone within the normal range, but doesn't actually produce any perceivable or noticeable effects, is it effective? Is it useful? Are effective and useful one and the same here?

 

[Lynks8]

Wait, so are you saying it's perfectly normal for a "test booster" to not actually boost test? What kind of world are we living in? If it doesn't do what it's supposed to; the product doesn't work simple as that.

lol, c'mon man...

Read my post. I said: "I have not, nor would I ever, claim that Test1fy will significantly raise every user's test."

Test1fy will absolutely raise most users' test. To what extent depends entirely on the individual and a) where their levels are currently, and b) how their body reacts to the ingredients. I'm just trying to be fair. No natural test-booster is going to give every single user a massive bump in test, but if any can help, Test1fy is one of them. We have hundreds of reports from happy users and a wealth of scientific data on the ingredients. If these aren't enough for you or anyone, then I understand if you don't want to try the product. I completely support the skepticism, but to say these products "don't work" is wrong.

(note, the following are the alleged claims of the ingredient and some relevant studies. These do not constitute irrefutable proof in every case but even in such cases they are still highly-compelling)
Ashwandha:
-increases in testosterone, muscle strength and muscle size, reduction of exercise-induced muscle damage, decreased body fat percentage
-Increased sperm count and motility, increased semen volume, improvements in serum hormone levels
-reduced serum cortisol levels
-reduced stress and anxiety, increased happiness
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24371462
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658772/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27055824
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3573577/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23439798

Anacyclus Pyrethrum
-Increased serum testosterone, LH, and FSH
-increased libido, erection quality, ejaculation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22473789
http://www.scipharm.at/download.asp?id=346

Vitamin D3
-increased free, bioactive, and total testosterone levels
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21154195
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857

LJ100
-increased free testosterone
-estrogen control
-decreased cortisol
-increased feelings of well-being
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669033/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3914427/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21671978
http://www.hpingredients.com/index.php?page=LJ100
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-10-28

Dehydroabietic Acid
-significant aromatase inhibiting activity
-reduced blood glucose, reduced triglycerides, reduced inflammatory markers, increased adiponectin, increased PPAR activity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19101885
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19753653
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21915937
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18267111

FruiteX-B
-increased free test, DHEA, vitamin D,
-increased joint health/flexibility
http://www.bioimmersion.com/media/docs/fructoborate_monograph.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21607703
https://dx.doi.org/10.2147/CIA.S64590

Mucuna Pruriens
-increased dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline
-increased serum testosterone, LH,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4350777
http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(08)03935-6/fulltext

 

[Chefdeez]

Ha ok. I'm done here. People can continue to waste their money on products with minimal return as long as it's not my money. "Test1fy will absolutely raise most users' test" is such a reach.

 

[Lynks8]

Ha ok. I'm done here. People can continue to waste their money on products with minimal return as long as it's not my money. "Test1fy will absolutely raise most users' test" is such a reach and one that I would expect from an Olympus Labs employee.

Yikes. Not sure where your hate is coming from. I think most reasonable people can read my posts and understand what I'm trying to say.

Also not sure how what I said was "such a reach". I didn't say it would skyrocket test. I'll try one last time to clarify my position in the hopes that this was just a miscommunication and not something...worse.

1. You mistakenly said I/we were saying "test boosters don't actually boost test".

2. I clarified by quoting what I actually said, which was that, of course, Test1fy won't boost every user's test significantly, and since my claims were being (purposely?) misinterpreted, I added that it will indeed "raise most users' test", but by how much "depends on the individual".

3. You got mad and insulted me and my company.

Did I say it will raise most users' test by a certain amount? Did I say it will raise most users' test to supra-physiological levels? No. Based on the ingredients, the science, and the overwhelmingly positive reports, I am confident it will increase most users' test, even if it's by a small amount. I have not, and do not claim that this will do anything other than potentially promote libido, energy, confidence, well-being, etc.

What is your objection to that? I thought I was being very reasonable.

 

[Woody]

Ha ok. I'm done here. People can continue to waste their money on products with minimal return as long as it's not my money. "Test1fy will absolutely raise most users' test" is such a reach.

Maybe you should the studies and understand the science and MOA behind Test1fy before you try to be confrontational. Given your attitude It's clear from your posts ITT you have zero idea about how Testify actually works and why we are confident about the product. Lynks posted the studies a few posts above yours. You should read them on your way out.

 

[Chefdeez]

How's this, I'll buy a bottle, use it as recommended, and get blood work done. And yes, I have personal issues with Olympus Labs, I admit to that.

 

[Lynks8]

How's this, I'll buy a bottle, use it as recommended, and get blood work done. And yes, I have personal issues with Olympus Labs, I admit to that.

That would be cool. I'd love to see the results. If there's anything I can do to remedy whatever caused your past problems, please let me know. (seriously) :grouphug:

 

[Woody]

How's this, I'll buy a bottle, use it as recommended, and get blood work done. And yes, I have personal issues with Olympus Labs, I admit to that.

Personal issues with OL doesn't justify a personal attack on an OL rep who has zero to do with your issues.

 

[Chefdeez]

Personal issues with OL doesn't justify a personal attack on an OL rep who has zero to do with your issues.

I apologize, I edited my post right after realizing it was douchy and outta line.

 

[7eman7]

 

[SFreed]

This has been an interesting thread, too bad it turned into a pissing match. I have taken a few "Test Boosters" with mixed results (maybe I should say anecdotal results). USPLabs Ultimate T didn't do much for me. Just finished an 8 week run of Performax AlphaMax XT and liked it. I didn't realize how well it made me feel until I stopped taking it. One of the things that Lynks8 said really rang true for me. I felt better, so my workouts were better. I was sleeping better, so my recovery was better. My stress levels at work seemed much lower than usual, too. Again, all of this is purely anecdotal. The real question (for me, anyway) is was this product worth the price I paid? For me, in my opinion, AlphaMax was definitely worth the price. I would have bought it again, but all of the vendors who had it on sale during Labor Day were out of stock. Instead, I purchased OL Test1fy, so we'll see how it does.
I will be going in for my yearly physical and blood tests (I'm 53, so yearly bloods and physicals are kind of a fact of life) at the end of this week. I will be starting Test1fy in approximately three weeks. If anyone is interested, I'd be more than happy to have another blood test done at the end of that 8 weeks.

I don't have an axe to grind, nor am I locked into any one company. I use what I like, and I buy my own stuff. If something doesn't work, I don't buy it again. But I also don't argue with someone who does enjoy a product. YMMV

 

[7eman7]

Pure DAA powder works best for me personally. Cheap and effective. Hell it works so well it flares up my mild gyno everytime I use it lol. Id like to get bloodwork done next time i run it because my theory is that It must increase test levels pretty significantly to be experiencing estrogen related sides everytime I use it.

 

[Chefdeez]

Pure DAA powder works best for me personally. Cheap and effective. Hell it works so well it flares up my mild gyno everytime I use it lol. Id like to get bloodwork done next time i run it because my theory is that It must increase test levels pretty significantly to be experiencing estrogen related sides everytime I use it.

That's because it raises estrogen better than it raises test. That's been proven.

 

[7eman7]

That's because it raises estrogen better than it raises test. That's been proven.

That's a pretty bold claim. I'd like to see said proof...

 

[Chefdeez]

That's a pretty bold claim. I'd like to see said proof...

Of course, let me find the studies.

 

[7eman7]

All i see is that it has no effect on serum estrogen levels...

https://examine.com/supplements/d-aspartic-acid/

 

[Chefdeez]

http://www.nutridesk.com.au/d_aspartic_acid_daa_testosterone-2.phtml

 

[7eman7]

There's always gotta be contradicting studies man why can't these damn scientists just agree for once! Take a look at the link I posted.

"Despite a possible induction of aromatase seen in some species, D-aspartic acid supplementation does not appear to increase serum estrogen."

 

[Chefdeez]

There's always gotta be contradicting studies man why can't these damn scientists just agree for once! Take a look at the link I posted.

"Despite a possible induction of aromatase seen in some species, D-aspartic acid supplementation does not appear to increase serum estrogen."

You're right. I've seen research going both ways. Sometimes you need to look at who is funding the research. It hadn't been out long enough for there to be concrete evidence either way but I can tell you based on experience, it raises estrogen for me personally.

 

[7eman7]

You're right. I've seen research going both ways. Sometimes you need to look at who is funding the research. It hadn't been out long enough for there to be concrete evidence either way but I can tell you based on experience, it raises estrogen for me personally.

Definitely raises estrogen for me as well... aside from that I feel great on it in terms of energy and libido. But might have to find another test booster since it seems to flare up my nipple every damn time lol.

 

[7eman7]

This study shows it actually decreased total testosterone at 6g a day and no effect at 3g... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4384294/