Test / Deca / Primo stack

[BobDigital]

What's the right ratio for these compounds? I've always kept my deca half or less than my test dose and I've never had any impotency issues (and don't want any). I've never used primo, though; what should the dosing be compared to test and deca?

As a note, my current plan for my next cycle is 600 test / 200 deca. My only previous cycle, I tolerated 400 test / 125 deca / 50 anavar with no undesirable side effects outside of crashed lipids and elevated liver markers (which I think is unavoidable with orals).

 

[gphagan1]

I would start your Test at 400 again, 200 Deca is fine, and start Primo at 400. Give it about
4 weeks and if you feel you need more, increase Primo to 600. Primo is clean and no side effects to me, and doses of 400 to 800 yield nice lean gains and can be ran 12 to 16 weeks comfortably.

 

[Rocket3015]

I would start your Test at 400 again, 200 Deca is fine, and start Primo at 400. Give it about
4 weeks and if you feel you need more, increase Primo to 600. Primo is clean and no side effects to me, and doses of 400 to 800 yield nice lean gains and can be ran 12 to 16 weeks comfortably.

This is good information ! @BobDigital how about some Before and After Pics ??

 

[BobDigital]

This is good information ! @BobDigital how about some Before and After Pics ??

Definitely! I will post up after I finish; I'm going to start 1/1, so it'll be a few months.

 

[Rocket3015]

I have never used Primo, so I have no idea about what to expect.

 

[BBiceps]

If you use a DHT a double dose of Test is not needed. I even heard about Deca and Primo without Test being a good combo, maybe nothing I would recommend though.

I would use lowest effective dose of Test you can get away with and use a double dose of Primo (DHT) instead. That’s what I will do for my next Deca cycle.

 

[BobDigital]

If you use a DHT a double dose of Test is not needed. I even heard about Deca and Primo without Test being a good combo, maybe nothing I would recommend though.

I would use lowest effective dose of Test you can get away with and use a double dose of Primo (DHT) instead. That’s what I will do for my next Deca cycle.

Can you elaborate a little? What is it about primo that de-prioritizes additional testosterone?

A little background: Until recently, I've only ever done TRT. My only "blast" was at 400mg test (+deca and anavar, as I mentioned). When I started reading more and talking to more people, it seemed like the consistent theme was that everybody was running 600-1000mg of test on blast.

With primo being a DHT-derivative (like anavar), I'm just confused about why it would influence the test dosage of a cycle.

Thanks in advance for the education - I'm trying to become an expert, or at least more knowledgeable, about this stuff so I can make responsible decisions.

 

[BBiceps]

Can you elaborate a little? What is it about primo that de-prioritizes additional testosterone?

A little background: Until recently, I've only ever done TRT. My only "blast" was at 400mg test (+deca and anavar, as I mentioned). When I started reading more and talking to more people, it seemed like the consistent theme was that everybody was running 600-1000mg of test on blast.

With primo being a DHT-derivative (like anavar), I'm just confused about why it would influence the test dosage of a cycle.

Thanks in advance for the education - I'm trying to become an expert, or at least more knowledgeable, about this stuff so I can make responsible decisions.

The “high dose Test blast” is bs, especially for the regular guy, if you need that much Test to make gains I would question your training and diet. I’m 6’1 235 12ish bf and I rarely go over 400mg of Test in my blasts for an example.

I’ve done double dose Test to Deca, 400/200, (with 400mg Primo) and noticed that sides was greater than when I do 250/250 of Test/Deca (with 400mg Primo). Libido even might been better with lower Test.

I’m on another forum where a member do Deca/Primo cycles and he says that he barely get any side, especially compared to when he run Deca/Primo with Test.

Take it for what you want, one think is 100% true though, always use the smallest dose possible to make gains, especially if you planning to do this long term.

 

[BobDigital]

The “high dose Test blast” is bs, especially for the regular guy, if you need that much Test to make gains I would question your training and diet. I’m 6’1 235 12ish bf and I rarely go over 400mg of Test in my blasts for an example.

I’ve done double dose Test to Deca, 400/200, (with 400mg Primo) and noticed that sides was greater than when I do 250/250 of Test/Deca (with 400mg Primo). Libido even might been better with lower Test.

I’m on another forum where a member do Deca/Primo cycles and he says that he barely get any side, especially compared to when he run Deca/Primo with Test.

Take it for what you want, one think is 100% true though, always use the smallest dose possible to make gains, especially if you planning to do this long term.

Thanks - I agree that the most responsible way to use anabolics is to use the minimum effective dosage. I tolerated 400mg test quite well and made some really great gains, but I don't know whether to attribute that to the test or the anavar or both. I don't think the deca was a big factor at only 125mg, but it certainly helped my joints feel better.

My favorite part about the cycle I ran is that I didn't lose a single thing when I went back to cruising - I actually got stronger and leaner, because I sustained my training intensity and continued eating properly. I was going to run anavar again, but I've been on this forum a lot more lately versus another I peruse and I like the mantra that most cycles should be strictly injectables with orals only being used for time-critical events. Anavar crushed my lipids pretty bad and, while they have since recovered, I don't fully understand how bad it is for lipids to be bad for an 8 week period (versus chronically bad). Consequently, I want to make orals more of an exception than a rule.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Thanks - I agree that the most responsible way to use anabolics is to use the minimum effective dosage. I tolerated 400mg test quite well and made some really great gains, but I don't know whether to attribute that to the test or the anavar or both. I don't think the deca was a big factor at only 125mg, but it certainly helped my joints feel better.

My favorite part about the cycle I ran is that I didn't lose a single thing when I went back to cruising - I actually got stronger and leaner, because I sustained my training intensity and continued eating properly. I was going to run anavar again, but I've been on this forum a lot more lately versus another I peruse and I like the mantra that most cycles should be strictly injectables with orals only being used for time-critical events. Anavar crushed my lipids pretty bad and, while they have since recovered, I don't fully understand how bad it is for lipids to be bad for an 8 week period (versus chronically bad). Consequently, I want to make orals more of an exception than a rule.

You're learning young jedi..lol..fir real tho I like how you're open to new suggestions and learning yiu will only get stronger because of that. I'm sure you know by now most guys come on here just looking for the bros to cosign their b.s. cycle and when they don't they freak the f out and say we don't know wtf we're talking about SMH

 

[BobDigital]

You're learning young jedi..lol..fir real tho I like how you're open to new suggestions and learning yiu will only get stronger because of that. I'm sure you know by now most guys come on here just looking for the bros to cosign their b.s. cycle and when they don't they freak the f out and say we don't know wtf we're talking about SMH

Thanks! I actually have another question:

Do I need to pre-emptively reduce my A.I. dosage if using primo or just take a wait-and-see approach? My understanding is that primo may reduce the perception of estrogenic symptoms but doesn't actually reduce the estrogen level in the body...? So, I assume A.I. should remain unchanged.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Thanks! I actually have another question:

Do I need to pre-emptively reduce my A.I. dosage if using primo or just take a wait-and-see approach? My understanding is that primo may reduce the perception of estrogenic symptoms but doesn't actually reduce the estrogen level in the body...? So, I assume A.I. should remain unchanged.

That I'm not the best at because I try my best not not use an a.i. I would drop it to the lowest amount before you get symptoms and adjust as needed

 

[Hyde]

Thanks! I actually have another question:

Do I need to pre-emptively reduce my A.I. dosage if using primo or just take a wait-and-see approach? My understanding is that primo may reduce the perception of estrogenic symptoms but doesn't actually reduce the estrogen level in the body...? So, I assume A.I. should remain unchanged.

Primo, and mast, and DHB, and EQ, absolutely lowered my estrogen - both in feel, and seen in my bloodwork.

So I would say preemptively lower it some for sure. I mean ideally, you wouldn’t raise it at all over whatever you have to use on cruise (if you are using any), and would only add the AI as you felt you needed it.

Regarding low HDL, we now know that if your triglycerides are more than double your HDL, this is prime indicator you are cruising towards cardiovascular disease. So if you can maintain an HDL of 40, you want your trigs no more than 80. But someone with HDL down at 25 is not going to be able to keep trigs under 50, so you can see how spending significant time with low HDL would be problematic. It’s indicative of a negatively skewed environment primed for plaque deposition & hardening of arteries.

 

[BobDigital]

Primo, and mast, and DHB, and EQ, absolutely lowered my estrogen - both in feel, and seen in my bloodwork.

So I would say preemptively lower it some for sure. I mean ideally, you wouldn’t raise it at all over whatever you have to use on cruise (if you are using any), and would only add the AI as you felt you needed it.

Regarding low HDL, we now know that if your triglycerides are more than double your HDL, this is prime indicator you are cruising towards cardiovascular disease. So if you can maintain an HDL of 40, you want your trigs no more than 80. But someone with HDL down at 25 is not going to be able to keep trigs under 50, so you can see how spending significant time with low HDL would be problematic. It’s indicative of a negatively skewed environment primed for plaque deposition & hardening of arteries.

Hey, this is great info and it looks like my lipids are ok by this metric (HDL 52, triglycerides 91). How does LDL factor into the heart health equation? Is it as much of a factor as the HDL/trig ratio? Is just being in range adequate?

Haha, sorry, I realize my thread is deviating all over the place.

 

[BBiceps]

Thanks! I actually have another question:

Do I need to pre-emptively reduce my A.I. dosage if using primo or just take a wait-and-see approach? My understanding is that primo may reduce the perception of estrogenic symptoms but doesn't actually reduce the estrogen level in the body...? So, I assume A.I. should remain unchanged.

I don’t need an AI on Test and Primo by themselves but with Deca added I need one, even 200mg Deca gives my right nipple (only the right for some reason) issues.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Primo, and mast, and DHB, and EQ, absolutely lowered my estrogen - both in feel, and seen in my bloodwork.

So I would say preemptively lower it some for sure. I mean ideally, you wouldn’t raise it at all over whatever you have to use on cruise (if you are using any), and would only add the AI as you felt you needed it.

Regarding low HDL, we now know that if your triglycerides are more than double your HDL, this is prime indicator you are cruising towards cardiovascular disease. So if you can maintain an HDL of 40, you want your trigs no more than 80. But someone with HDL down at 25 is not going to be able to keep trigs under 50, so you can see how spending significant time with low HDL would be problematic. It’s indicative of a negatively skewed environment primed for plaque deposition & hardening of arteries.

I swear I learn something new from @Hyde Everyday

 

[Rocket3015]

I swear I learn something new from @Hyde Everyday

I believe a lot of us do. Thank you Hyde for sharing your wealth of information with us !

 

[Hyde]

Hey, this is great info and it looks like my lipids are ok by this metric (HDL 52, triglycerides 91). How does LDL factor into the heart health equation? Is it as much of a factor as the HDL/trig ratio? Is just being in range adequate?

Haha, sorry, I realize my thread is deviating all over the place.

Unfortunately, despite what we’ve been lead to believe, it’s sounding more and more like it doesn’t matter.

The difference in absolute risk between coronary events in patients with moderately elevated LDL to those with very high LDL isn’t nearly as big as they tried to paint it using concocted BS “relative risk” values painted by big pharma. There was 98.3% survivability in the statin group, and 97% in the high LDL group.

I’m not saying it’s not better to have a lower LDL, but it’s just not the culprit or predictor for heart disease that was sold to us. People who followed lower fat diets consuming vegetable oils had lower LDL but died much sooner.

I believe a lot of us do. Thank you Hyde for sharing your wealth of information with us !

You want a rabbit hole that will blow your mind, take the time to listen to this cardiologist’s lecture:

 

[BobDigital]

General question: What is the maximum volume that should be injected intramuscularly? When I start doing the math on putting test/primo/deca in a single barrel at 400 (bi-weekly) / 400 (bi-weekly) / 200 (weekly), the volume is already up to 3mL... which leaves little margin in a 3mL syringe. Perhaps I should look at getting some bigger barrels.

 

[Mikereyn513]

General question: What is the maximum volume that should be injected intramuscularly? When I start doing the math on putting test/primo/deca in a single barrel at 400 (bi-weekly) / 400 (bi-weekly) / 200 (weekly), the volume is already up to 3mL... which leaves little margin in a 3mL syringe. Perhaps I should look at getting some bigger barrels.

No you just need to do more frequent shots. I'm on 750mg test e 450mg deca week that's split into 3 1.5cc shots M/W/F btw the test e is 250/cc deca is 300/cc

 

[Burnfire]

General question: What is the maximum volume that should be injected intramuscularly? When I start doing the math on putting test/primo/deca in a single barrel at 400 (bi-weekly) / 400 (bi-weekly) / 200 (weekly), the volume is already up to 3mL... which leaves little margin in a 3mL syringe. Perhaps I should look at getting some bigger barrels.

Found these

 

[Burnfire]

Part 2

 

[Mikereyn513]

Part 2

Interesting I'm a ventro glute guy especially scince I'm lean enough to see it pop out now. I figured I could put a whole 3cc in there because 1.5 goes on like butter and Im planing a pretty hefty spring cycle and I figured I might have to start pinning a whole 3

 

[Burnfire]

Interesting I'm a ventro glute guy especially scince I'm lean enough to see it pop out now. I figured I could put a whole 3cc in there because 1.5 goes on like butter and Im planing a pretty hefty spring cycle and I figured I might have to start pinning a whole 3

I also hit the lats love the lats.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I also hit the lats love the lats.

Yea I saw that I know it's popular. I remember the first time I heard/saw that was with Bostin Lloyd. It still makes me squirmy thinking how that would feel. The only thing crazier was thus trainer I worked with at 24 hour fitness back in 2001 use to hit his biceps with organon sust250 preloads!! Couldn't imagine the pip with those. When I hit my glute with 1 I couldn't sleep in that side for 3 days

 

[Rocket3015]

Found these

Great Info @Burnfire

 

[Rocket3015]

Yea I saw that I know it's popular. I remember the first time I heard/saw that was with Bostin Lloyd. It still makes me squirmy thinking how that would feel. The only thing crazier was thus trainer I worked with at 24 hour fitness back in 2001 use to hit his biceps with organon sust250 preloads!! Couldn't imagine the pip with those. When I hit my glute with 1 I couldn't sleep in that side for 3 days

I tried a bicep shot one time, never again !!

 

[Burnfire]

Great Info @Burnfire

Thanks big bro. Trying to get back to my former glory on here.

 

[Hyde]

I’d agree with all of the measurements Burnfire posted. I have done 1.5cc in medial delts but it seems a bit much, much prefer under 1cc. I also don’t really do the quads besides some baby slinpin shots of 0.5ml or less, but they’re good for it by all accounts.

I don’t think I’ve done over 2.4cc in a lat; I don’t like going over 2cc in them because you start to lose optimal leverage on a 3cc barrel and it gets tricky for me mobility-wise if it’s not flowing that well. But they take a lot of oil pretty well.

Honestly, I hate going over 2.5ml anyway anywhere.

 

[BobDigital]

Found these

Wow, this is really great. Up to 5 mL in the quad is good to know; it seems like I may not need to further split up my shots in that case.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Wow, this is really great. Up to 5 mL in the quad is good to know; it seems like I may not need to further split up my shots in that case.

Be careful with the quads a lot of veins in there..you gotta make sure and pull that plunger back i remember years ago I stuck my quad pulled the plunger back and blood came swooshing into the barrel.. Great for heroin not so great for gear

 

[BobDigital]

Be careful with the quads a lot of veins in there..you gotta make sure and pull that plunger back i remember years ago I stuck my quad pulled the plunger back and blood came swooshing into the barrel.. Great for heroin not so great for gear

Yeah, I've been doing quads for ~3 years and they told me it was like a one-in-a-million chance to hit a vein. Like you, I aspirate every time and once (only once so far) blood shot back into the syringe. You can definitely see your blood pressure at work when that happens; it was pretty remarkable how quickly it shot in there.

 

[Rocket3015]

It scares you the first time !!

 

[BBiceps]

I do 3cc in my delts without any issues, I’m doing 2cc at the moment and rotate delt/delt/glute/glute but I might add another cc soon, we’ll see. To me it’s very annoying to do injections so I always trying to get away with as few as possible.

 

[Hyde]

I do 3cc in my delts without any issues, I’m doing 2cc at the moment and rotate delt/delt/glute/glute but I might add another cc soon, we’ll see. To me it’s very annoying to do injections so I always trying to get away with as few as possible.

Anything over 2x a week gets tedious for sure.

You gotta get some more sites in rotation, especially if you are pushing that much in the delts. They aren’t going to want to take that forever.

Just adding VGs and lats or quads will halve your frequency (more time to heal, less scar tissue mileage).

Pecs are also great for little baby shots up to 1ml. Front delts, I feel like I hit nerves a ton of the time so I avoid. But they will take a cc fine.

Apparently a lot of guys do well with side triceps too, but I’ve only accidentally done a couple there.

 

[Uncle_E]

Thanks! I actually have another question:

Do I need to pre-emptively reduce my A.I. dosage if using primo or just take a wait-and-see approach? My understanding is that primo may reduce the perception of estrogenic symptoms but doesn't actually reduce the estrogen level in the body...? So, I assume A.I. should remain unchanged.

I am 6 weeks in on a test/primo cycle and I have not needed to take the AI.

 

[gphagan1]

I never really need an A.I. with Test/Primo or Test/Mast ….love both those stacks in a cycle.

 

[BobDigital]

@Uncle_E @gphagan1 were you guys taking AIs before adding primo or mast? I definitely need one even on just cruise doses of TRT.

 

[gphagan1]

@Uncle_E @gphagan1 were you guys taking AIs before adding primo or mast? I definitely need one even on just cruise doses of TRT.

No, I don’t need one on TRT either.

 

[Uncle_E]

I was taking one with my regular TRT 200mg/ week. I dropped down to 100mg/week for a month or so before my last blood draw, but didn’t drop AI and I crashed my estrogen. The symptoms of high/low really threw me off. I over reacted to nipple sensitivity and took it when I didn’t need it.

I started at 400T/200P and now at week 6 I’m taking 400T/300P per week split into two injections. I don’t think that I’m going to need to take an AI on this cycle. Im going to wait and see if I end up crying to a lame Christmas movie or consistently get soft boners before I think about taking one ever again, lol.

 

[gphagan1]

I was taking one with my regular TRT 200mg/ week. I dropped down to 100mg/week for a month or so before my last blood draw, but didn’t drop AI and I crashed my estrogen. The symptoms of high/low really threw me off. I over reacted to nipple sensitivity and took it when I didn’t need it.

I started at 400T/200P and now at week 6 I’m taking 400T/300P per week split into two injections. I don’t think that I’m going to need to take an AI on this cycle. Im going to wait and see if I end up crying to a lame Christmas movie or consistently get soft boners before I think about taking one ever again, lol.

I really don’t think you will need it with Test/Primo, unless you ran your Test dose up high, but Test at 400 with Primo you should be good….enjoy.

 

[BobDigital]

I was taking one with my regular TRT 200mg/ week. I dropped down to 100mg/week for a month or so before my last blood draw, but didn’t drop AI and I crashed my estrogen. The symptoms of high/low really threw me off. I over reacted to nipple sensitivity and took it when I didn’t need it.

I started at 400T/200P and now at week 6 I’m taking 400T/300P per week split into two injections. I don’t think that I’m going to need to take an AI on this cycle. Im going to wait and see if I end up crying to a lame Christmas movie or consistently get soft boners before I think about taking one ever again, lol.

That was my problem. I was standing there making a pizza and I felt like I wanted to cry. That was early in my TRT days when I was just on like 140mg test... so I think I'm a big aromatizer.

 

[moslifter]

You think 250 Test 250 Deca 500 Primo is a good choice for bulking?

Anyone also crusing on Test Deca Primo? How would your crusing dosage look like?

 

[Smont]

You think 250 Test 250 Deca 500 Primo is a good choice for bulking?

Anyone also crusing on Test Deca Primo? How would your crusing dosage look like?

Bulking is diet determined, the drug selection dosent really matter.

I would have my test higher then deca and I definitely would not run my primo higher then test or it would crush my estrogen.

How many cycles have you ran and what doses have you used test, deca or Primo in past cycles?

 

[Mikereyn513]

Test/ deca/ primo us not a cruise its a cycle no mater how low the dosages

 

[BBiceps]

Bulking is diet determined, the drug selection dosent really matter.

I would have my test higher then deca and I definitely would not run my primo higher then test or it would crush my estrogen.

How many cycles have you ran and what doses have you used test, deca or Primo in past cycles?

I disagree, it think 250/250/500 Test/Deca/Primo is a perfect ratio. Without the Deca I agree.

 

[BBiceps]

You think 250 Test 250 Deca 500 Primo is a good choice for bulking?

Anyone also crusing on Test Deca Primo? How would your crusing dosage look like?

Ratio is good, sure you can.

I wouldn’t “cruise” on that many drugs.

 

[Smont]

I disagree, it think 250/250/500 Test/Deca/Primo is a perfect ratio. Without the Deca I agree.

Who are you disagreeing with though? All I did was give a personal opinion of what I would do. You're not disagreeing with me at all.

 

[Hyde]

You think 250 Test 250 Deca 500 Primo is a good choice for bulking?

Anyone also crusing on Test Deca Primo? How would your crusing dosage look like?

Seems like a good stack to me. The amounts just come down to how you respond to different compounds and how much you aromatize. For myself I would probably do 300/200/500. Total mg needs is more individual though.

For cruising, I subscribe to the idea that 1-3mg/kg is where it should probably be. 1mg is true TRT (100mg test/wk for a 220lb guy), while 3mg is on the overdriven end where you can run it forever but also expect some health consequences longterm. Ie, 300mg test is usually going to require an AI, or you are using test & mast/primo, and both of those will impact lipids over time. And 200/100 test/deca could have more longterm neurological impact.

2mg/kg (180mg for a 198lb man, 220mg for a 242lb man, etc) is generally excellent to maintain quite a bit of muscle and performance.

There are people that cruise on 4-500mg (or more), but they either need to take a ton on blasts or aren’t trying to get a lot out of blasts (1g won’t do much when you never come off 500).

 

[Stopstalking2]

You think 250 Test 250 Deca 500 Primo is a good choice for bulking?

Anyone also crusing on Test Deca Primo? How would your crusing dosage look like?

that’s not a cruise at any dose. I’m on a similar cycle now part of a blast. Test/Deca/mast

600 test
600 Deca
400 mast

yes high doses, but the regular for me I cruise higher then most. No sides for me been taking SNS inhibit-p since day one and take daily cialis anyway. I do have caber but haven’t needed it.