Save your money use ECA Stack

[KgTomCat]

bump...SX-Slim Xteme?

 

[T-AD]

QUESTION? if EPHEDRA was unbanned tommorrow... how fast would AX have a ECA based Fatburner on the marker?

No idea. AX isn't about using the latest fad regardless of safety. Our products, goal, and current arsenal are geared toward innovative and new ideas that show real results within very acceptable safety parameters. For example, 3-AD came out as a non-methyl with very low sides and a high safety factor. Could we have put out a methyl with harsh sides, need for a SERM for PCT and other toxicity issues? Sure! But why??? I've used ephedra products back in the day, specifically the original Ultimate Orange, and it was incredible. But I didn't know the risks nor understand why my heart was racing so much to the point where I became really concerned. Even if it was approved for wide-spread use again, I'm sure that it'd take a LOT of thought, research, and even legal investigation/consultation before AX even had something using it on the backburner.

Agreed, SX wipes the floor with ECA/Clen.

Especially in terms of risk Vs reward.

Exactly, and IMHO, there's not a single person here that should ever disregard risk vs reward. Take the risks, but don't cry when you can't take 'em.

bump...SX-Slim Xteme?

Yes - SX = Slim Xtreme Some of us type so many words that abbreviations are a necessity! :lick:

 

[IRONPOPE]

bump...SX-Slim Xteme?

bump .... is it SLIM EXTREME?

 

[KgTomCat]

lol...gotta love those good ole' abbreviations

 

[KgTomCat]

I have a dumb question. Ive been trying to figure out my dosage for Y. I weigh 220-225lbs and one cap is 2.5mg of Y....so what should my daily total be to take?

 

[faaipdeoiad]

I have a dumb question. Ive been trying to figure out my dosage for Y. I weigh 220-225lbs and one cap is 2.5mg of Y....so what should my daily total be to take?

i read somewhere that it should be like 1 mg per 10 lbs. so 22/23 mg for u daily?start off with 2 or 3 caps and work ur way up id say. im up to 3-4 4x a day at 2.5 mg each but i think im kind of desensitized to it.

ive also read that u should start with just ec for a week or so and then add in the y after to get better results. i started off with ec and y and the effects diminished a bit.

 

[KgTomCat]

i read somewhere that it should be like 1 mg per 10 lbs. so 22/23 mg for u daily?start off with 2 or 3 caps and work ur way up id say. im up to 3-4 4x a day at 2.5 mg each but i think im kind of desensitized to it.

ive also read that u should start with just ec for a week or so and then add in the y after to get better results. i started off with ec and y and the effects diminished a bit.

I read that also, I did start out with just E&C and just started adding in Y...I can tell somewhat of a difference

 

[thesinner]

QUESTION? if EPHEDRA was unbanned tommorrow... how fast would AX have a ECA based Fatburner on the marker?

Honestly, I don't think AX would go that route.

Think about it.

(1) By this point, everyone and their brother has "heard" something about ephedra. It's somewhat of a taboo, associated with nasty cardiovascular effects.
(2) 1 capsule of SX works (for most) 12+ hours strong. Ephedrine gives you a nice, debilatating crash after about 6-8 hours. Furthermore, users get heavy withdrawal periods when discontinuing, during which, they usually gain the weight back; whereas, (from my experimentations) you can skip a day of SX, and never miss a beat.
(3) As Tim alluded to, our design team tries to take the users health into consideration. From a business model perspective, it is hard to sell supplements to dead people, so we try not to deliver results so good that they're to die for, but good enough to keep on living. The profiles in SX and LeanFX are designed not only to help you down the pounds, but also provide some nice general health benefits as well.

 

[thesinner]

i read somewhere that it should be like 1 mg per 10 lbs. so 22/23 mg for u daily?start off with 2 or 3 caps and work ur way up id say. im up to 3-4 4x a day at 2.5 mg each but i think im kind of desensitized to it.

ive also read that u should start with just ec for a week or so and then add in the y after to get better results. i started off with ec and y and the effects diminished a bit.

It's really tough to dose a stimulant because we have to incorporate available adrenergic receptors as well as body size. There's a wide range of body sizes, literally ranging from midgets (or little people, to be more PC) to giants, and everyone in between. Unfortunately, receptor availability/density has a similarly wide range.

One guy can take 200mcg of clen and be fine, another guy will take it and wind up in the hospital.

 

[LAGear]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but where the heck do you get E from?

I did ECA ages ago when Ripped Fuel had ephedrine in it but haven't used ephedrine since it was banned.

Also, haven't we learned that any kind of anti-inflammatory like aspirin impairs muscle growth? Or do people doing ECA not care about that so long as they are cutting?

 

[KgTomCat]

It's really tough to dose a stimulant because we have to incorporate available adrenergic receptors as well as body size. There's a wide range of body sizes, literally ranging from midgets (or little people, to be more PC) to giants, and everyone in between. Unfortunately, receptor availability/density has a similarly wide range.

One guy can take 200mcg of clen and be fine, another guy will take it and wind up in the hospital.

I need your advice on a thought I have...can I send you a PM?

 

[KgTomCat]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but where the heck do you get E from?

Also, haven't we learned that any kind of anti-inflammatory like aspirin impairs muscle growth? Or do people doing ECA not care about that so long as they are cutting?

I got mine at a pharmacy, Bronkaid....but it also has 400mg of Guaifenesin
thats why Im not using Aspirin in mine, instead doing Yohimbine

 

[LAGear]

I got mine at a pharmacy, Bronkaid....but it also has 400mg of Guaifenesin
thats why Im not using Aspirin in mine, instead doing Yohimbine

So the only way to get ephedrine is in cold medicine?

Is there a safety issue or possible side effects from regularly taking cold medicine? If cold medicine is the only option it's unappealing to me.

 

[xjmacx]

I got a question regarding the EC stack. Do you necessarily need the caffeine or is it just to help aid in fatloss? Also, has anyone ran EC at half doses instead of the full doses.

 

[KgTomCat]

I got a question regarding the EC stack. Do you necessarily need the caffeine or is it just to help aid in fatloss? Also, has anyone ran EC at half doses instead of the full doses.

research it man, every component has a purpose...as stated above, you figure out your own doses

 

[KgTomCat]

So the only way to get ephedrine is in cold medicine?

Is there a safety issue or possible side effects from regularly taking cold medicine? If cold medicine is the only option it's unappealing to me.

I guess so, the G helps with respiratory issues, lately when I get short of breath, I can tell its from the G, but it feels really good, its scary but in a good way

 

[B5150]

No fat burner is more effective than the ECA stack...or if u can stand it the ECY stack...so why waste money on fat burners that dont stack up...

i dont get it? none of them can touch the ECA..
if they could...they would be banned for fat loss just like Ephedra is

Very broad and sweeping statement.

When you consider VAT and SAT, Alpha and Beta receptors as well as cortisol.

ECA will fail you eventually.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/74689-advanced-fat-loss.html

 

[stfdkd37]

anyone have a link to get ec i'll get the a myself

 

[skratch]

guys add aspirin every other day,it was used in the original eca for a reason and is has a patent on it.

There is scientific testing done on it,It keeps the body from stopping the norephrine down regulation.

add yohimbe to block the bad receptors if you can handle the stim.Here is a paste of an old write up.

Ephedrine enhances the release of the hormone norepinephrine in the body, and also binds to the same receptors as that hormone, causing excess calories to be converted to heat instead of being stored as fat. It also raises blood pressure. Epinephrine and norepinephrine are also known as adrenaline and noradrenaline. Ephedrine thus acts to stimulate an "adrenaline rush".

Interactions with caffeine and aspirin can increase the effects of ephedrine. Norepinephrine works in part by increasing the levels of cyclic AMP in cells. Caffeine inhibits the enzyme that breaks down cyclic AMP. Together, ephedrine makes more cyclic AMP, and caffeine prevents it from breaking down. Aspirin inhibits the receptors that turn off release of norepinephrine. So ephedrine releases norepinephrine, and aspirin prevents the release from being turned off.

Ephedrine by itself has been shown to be ineffective as a weight loss treatment. Ephedrine combined with either caffeine or aspirin was effective. The effect appears to be caused by a reduction in appetite, and preventing the metabolic rate decrease usually associated with a reduced calorie diet.

 

[B5150]

Green Tea Extract (ECGC) will provide similar benefits as it is a COMT inhibitor with the added benefit of being a potent anti-oxidant.

Take Green Tea Extract (ECGC) and you don't need the caffeine or the aspirin.

TEA-GCG™ (Green Tea Caps) (100 caps)

 

[John Smeton]

Green Tea Extract (ECGC) will provide similar benefits as it is a COMT inhibitor with the added benefit of being a potent anti-oxidant.

Take Green Tea Extract (ECGC) and you don't need the caffeine or the aspirin.

TEA-GCG™ (Green Tea Caps) (100 caps)

very nice information!

 

[LAGear]

Even better (or at least cheaper):
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/green-tea-powder-50-egcg-100-gm.html
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/green-tea-powder-50-egcg-500-gm.html

 

[0-hero]

Good shout above!

Ive always taken green tea with the EC(Y) stack.

Being honest i only knew the surface of the science behind it but that nice little study has made me feel smug lol.

 

[KgTomCat]

guys add aspirin every other day,it was used in the original eca for a reason and is has a patent on it.

There is scientific testing done on it,It keeps the body from stopping the norephrine down regulation.

add yohimbe to block the bad receptors if you can handle the stim.Here is a paste of an old write up.

Ephedrine enhances the release of the hormone norepinephrine in the body, and also binds to the same receptors as that hormone, causing excess calories to be converted to heat instead of being stored as fat. It also raises blood pressure. Epinephrine and norepinephrine are also known as adrenaline and noradrenaline. Ephedrine thus acts to stimulate an "adrenaline rush".

Interactions with caffeine and aspirin can increase the effects of ephedrine. Norepinephrine works in part by increasing the levels of cyclic AMP in cells. Caffeine inhibits the enzyme that breaks down cyclic AMP. Together, ephedrine makes more cyclic AMP, and caffeine prevents it from breaking down. Aspirin inhibits the receptors that turn off release of norepinephrine. So ephedrine releases norepinephrine, and aspirin prevents the release from being turned off.

Ephedrine by itself has been shown to be ineffective as a weight loss treatment. Ephedrine combined with either caffeine or aspirin was effective. The effect appears to be caused by a reduction in appetite, and preventing the metabolic rate decrease usually associated with a reduced calorie diet.

Green Tea Extract (ECGC) will provide similar benefits as it is a COMT inhibitor with the added benefit of being a potent anti-oxidant.

Take Green Tea Extract (ECGC) and you don't need the caffeine or the aspirin.

TEA-GCG™ (Green Tea Caps) (100 caps)

so your saying Aspirin enhances the effects? therefore it is required? what if you did E/C/A/Y

same thing as above but what if you did E/C/A/Y/G
G-green tea extract

 

[B5150]

"I" am saying don't waste your time with aspirin.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

"I" am saying don't waste your time with aspirin.

So you would recommend E/C/G or E/C/Y?

 

[B5150]

If you must use E and Y together I would use E/Y/G. You don't need C as Green Tea Extract has C.

GTE is a COMT inhibitor. This means it inhibits the downregulation of the stimulants. So it inversely increases the duration of their effects.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

If you must use E and Y together I would use E/Y/G. You don't need C as Green Tea Extract has C.

GTE is a COMT inhibitor. This means it inhibits the downregulation of the stimulants. So it inversely increases the duration of their effects.

Interesting. So one could actually goes as far as just an E/G and throw out the Y and still be effective?

 

[KgTomCat]

"I" am saying don't waste your time with aspirin.

damn, I just got some Bayor baby Aspirin guess Ill get more GTE

If you must use E and Y together I would use E/Y/G. You don't need C as Green Tea Extract has C.

GTE is a COMT inhibitor. This means it inhibits the downregulation of the stimulants. So it inversely increases the duration of their effects.

Ill start using my GTE today, how should it be dosed?

Interesting. So one could actually goes as far as just an E/G and throw out the Y and still be effective?

this what I hope on doing

 

[B5150]

I'm not saying throw out the Y. E targets beta receptors and Y targets alpha receptors. If you have adipose that is either, or, then use either, or, accordingly.

 

[KgTomCat]

I'm not saying throw out the Y. E targets beta receptors and Y targets alpha receptors. If you have adipose that is either, or, then use either, or, accordingly.

ok, Ive been dosing everything accordingly...Im not dumb lol. Im going to do one week of C, then do the GTE on my taper down 3/2/1...I think that'll be a good combination. So then it will be E/Y/A/GTE
I started Aspirin today (81mg) tomorrow I will increase the dose to 2x a day for a week or two, then 3x a day for a week, being that its baby Aspirin, and Im a big guy, how do you think I should dose it?

 

[KgTomCat]

just got from my WO...felt so drained it was hard to do cardio, inclined walking, I dont know why :think:

 

[LAGear]

Ill start using my GTE today, how should it be dosed?

I use one gram in the morning and one gram post workout.

 

[DAdams91982]

I wish NP would carry 12.5mg ephedrine caps.

Adams

 

[LAGear]

I wish NP would carry 12.5mg ephedrine caps.

Adams

Is that legal?

Is there anywhere you can buy that now? I thought the only way to legally get ephedrine is in cold medicine?

 

[DAdams91982]

Is that legal?

Is there anywhere you can buy that now? I thought the only way to legally get ephedrine is in cold medicine?

There are i believe 5 states that you cannot purchase in. Some states allow only 12.5mgs to be purchased, and the rest have no restrictions. So selling 12.5mg would keep everyone happy (Though that is as high as you really need IMO). Then just do not sell to those few states that you cannot.

Adams

 

[KgTomCat]

I wish NP would carry 12.5mg ephedrine caps.

Adams

post WO...never thought of that, why post?

 

[DAdams91982]

post WO...never thought of that, why post?

??? Did I say Post WO somewhere?

Adams

 

[Tomahawk88]

Adams he was talking about the green tea post WO not the E lol

 

[KgTomCat]

??? Did I say Post WO somewhere?

Adams

no, lol, this is weird...i meant to reply to LAGears post...

Originally Posted by KgTomCat
Ill start using my GTE today, how should it be dosed?
Originally Posted by LAGear
I use one gram in the morning and one gram post workout.

 

[LAGear]

post WO...never thought of that, why post?

Honestly, I don't remember why I made the decision to take half my dose PWO when I started using GTE :dunno:

It may have been because of something I read, it could be because it was a convenient time to add into my shakes (not a good idea to use it too late because of the caffeine), it may be because I take it with dext/malto at that time so it might be absorbed faster.

 

[skratch]

"I" am saying don't waste your time with aspirin.

Why would you sugest this,I have tried eca many times and with aspirin it worked better every time.

There are many studies done at countless universities that used aspirin in there testing.

it blocks Prostaglandin in the cycle for thermogenesis.

here is a picture from 1993 that was used in a study.ECA has been tested for up to 24 weeks and it showed that it kept on increasing ne while increasing the camp cycle.Where not taking about receptor downregulation,with eca you can get used to the stim affect after a week but there thermogenisis lasts for over 6 months.The aspirin plays a huge role in that.

An additional claim made by proponents of ECA-induced weight loss is that the thermogenic effects are
limited to fat catabolism, and that there is no protein catabolism, increased heart rate, or tremors which are
associated with other sympathetic stimulation. One hypothesis is that the main stimulation by ephedrine is
through beta2- and beta3-adrenergic receptor subtypes (2, 7), both of which are predominantly responsible
for lipolysis and protein synthesis, but are not associated with cardiovascular and central nervous system
effects mediated by beta1-receptor (2). Tolerance rapidly develops to the effects of ephedrine on heart rate,
but does not develop to the thermogenic effects (2, 8-12), suggesting that different mechanisms are
responsible for these different effects, and that ephedrine has longer-acting effects on thermogenesis.
The third component of the ECA combination, aspirin, enhances the peripheral actions of ephedrine and
caffeine by inhibiting prostaglandin (PG) synthesis. PGs, like adenosine, have been implicated in inhibiting
NE release from the post-synaptic nerve terminal, and in inhibiting the lipolytic actions of sympathetic
stimulants (2). However, these effects have been limited to only one study, and more experiments must be
performed before this effect can be conclusively linked to aspirin.
In summary, the effects of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin in rat brown adipose tissue involve a significant
central component of increased NE release, and a contributing peripheral part that has direct action on the
target tissue. These peripheral actions act to directly increase stimulation of beta-adrenergic receptors
(especially the beta2- and beta3-subtypes), to inhibit the regulatory mechanisms of negative feedback by
adenosine and PGs extracellularly, and to inhibit the destruction of cAMP by PDE intracellularly. This
overall scheme is depicted in Figure 1.
Efficacy

 

[strategicmove]

I use one gram in the morning and one gram post workout.

The more important thing is how much EGCG you are getting per dose of GTE. Aim for about 400mg EGCG per dose. Take twice daily.

 

[LAGear]

The more important thing is how much EGCG you are getting per dose of GTE. Aim for about 400mg EGCG per dose. Take twice daily.

NP GTE powder is 50% ECGC so I'm getting 500mg twice a day.

 

[strategicmove]

NP GTE powder is 50% ECGC so I'm getting 500mg twice a day.

Awesome.

 

[KgTomCat]

The more important thing is how much EGCG you are getting per dose of GTE. Aim for about 400mg EGCG per dose. Take twice daily.

I just have the Vitmain Shoppe brand of GTE, never really considered GTE an important supp, until now

 

[KgTomCat]

Why would you sugest this,I have tried eca many times and with aspirin it worked better every time.

There are many studies done at countless universities that used aspirin in there testing.

it blocks Prostaglandin in the cycle for thermogenesis.

here is a picture from 1993 that was used in a study.ECA has been tested for up to 24 weeks and it showed that it kept on increasing ne while increasing the camp cycle.Where not taking about receptor downregulation,with eca you can get used to the stim affect after a week but there thermogenisis lasts for over 6 months.The aspirin plays a huge role in that.

An additional claim made by proponents of ECA-induced weight loss is that the thermogenic effects are
limited to fat catabolism, and that there is no protein catabolism, increased heart rate, or tremors which are
associated with other sympathetic stimulation. One hypothesis is that the main stimulation by ephedrine is
through beta2- and beta3-adrenergic receptor subtypes (2, 7), both of which are predominantly responsible
for lipolysis and protein synthesis, but are not associated with cardiovascular and central nervous system
effects mediated by beta1-receptor (2). Tolerance rapidly develops to the effects of ephedrine on heart rate,
but does not develop to the thermogenic effects (2, 8-12), suggesting that different mechanisms are
responsible for these different effects, and that ephedrine has longer-acting effects on thermogenesis.
The third component of the ECA combination, aspirin, enhances the peripheral actions of ephedrine and
caffeine by inhibiting prostaglandin (PG) synthesis. PGs, like adenosine, have been implicated in inhibiting
NE release from the post-synaptic nerve terminal, and in inhibiting the lipolytic actions of sympathetic
stimulants (2). However, these effects have been limited to only one study, and more experiments must be
performed before this effect can be conclusively linked to aspirin.
In summary, the effects of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin in rat brown adipose tissue involve a significant
central component of increased NE release, and a contributing peripheral part that has direct action on the
target tissue. These peripheral actions act to directly increase stimulation of beta-adrenergic receptors
(especially the beta2- and beta3-subtypes), to inhibit the regulatory mechanisms of negative feedback by
adenosine and PGs extracellularly, and to inhibit the destruction of cAMP by PDE intracellularly. This
overall scheme is depicted in Figure 1.
Efficacy

so ECA is better than ECY....
what about GTE????????

 

[B5150]

You keep mising the point...E stimulates beta receptors, Y stimulates alpha receptors. Different receptors different adipose.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/74689-advanced-fat-loss.html

 

[KgTomCat]

You keep mising the point...E stimulates beta receptors, Y stimulates alpha receptors. Different receptors different adipose.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/74689-advanced-fat-loss.html

I understand, I want to know if E/C/A/Y is safe? if it is, I will dose all, or EOD..
how do I dose the A? Im taking baby Aspirin (81mg)

 

[B5150]

uuhhggg. forget about the aspirin already