Re-release of USP Prime?

[The_Old_Guy]

When its present, you can certianly do it. Until then, you can not buy it.

But if you want to criticize everyone else for trying it, then you probably should find someplace else to post because I don't think you will ever be happy here.

What are you talking about? "I can not buy it" Buy what? This is ridiculous - All I'm asking for is one shred of proof that a Water Chestnut extract has ever been shown to do anything anabolic... in anything. You, on the other hand, are Obi-Wan Kenobi-ing back with "These are not the droids you're looking for". I also don't think I criticized anyone for taking it - I just said there is ZERO data on it for sports performance. We *can* call BS on compounds around here, right? Do you mind if I tear apart Sheep Placenta? I'll stick around unless you ban me - I derive benefit from being here, buy products that have good data on them that I learn of on here, and like giving my data/research (or lack there of in this case) based opinion on stuff people might spend their hard earned money on. "Grow the Mind", right?

 

[Danes]

Admin , thank you for the discussion. You are pushing my english pretty well.

 

[Admin]

What are you talking about? "I can not buy it" Buy what? This is ridiculous - All I'm asking for is one shred of proof that a Water Chestnut extract has ever been shown to do anything anabolic... in anything. You, on the other hand, are Obi-Wan Kenobi-ing back with "These are not the droids you're looking for". I also don't think I criticized anyone for taking it - I just said there is ZERO data on it for sports performance. We *can* call BS on compounds around here, right? Do you mind if I tear apart Sheep Placenta? I'll stick around unless you ban me - I derive benefit from being here, buy products that have good data on them that I learn of on here, and like giving my data/research (or lack there of in this case) based opinion on stuff people might spend their hard earned money on. "Grow the Mind", right?

I have never addressed the ingredients in Prime. In fact, as I said, its irrelevant to me. I never even argued its effectiveness.

My point is that you are constantly criticizing and taking your pot shots at anyone who wants to try it (and other supps), states they had some results, or done'st have the exact data to make a case for you.

You do this with test boosters, epi, prime, and a host of other supps in which people beleive they are seeing results. You don't like supplement companies nor the industry as your edited post shows so what is the point of you being here? To save us all form the evil supp companies?

I won't ban you unless you break the rules but many people have already commented to me and can see that not only are you the old guy, but you fit right into the the old grumpy guy framework just perfectly.

I have no problem questioning ingredients. I have a problem with you being an ******* about it while constantly being negative to anyone that has either interest, tried it, or doens't need a double blind placebo study to spend $30 on a supplement.

 

[Admin]

Sir , like I said, you cant compare drugs with supplements.

Data? Ok, i need to make more examples to you so maybe you will understand you cant compare medicines and supps (regarding placebo).

You wrote:
"If you take all the drug and supplement studies, you will find those that get benefits from a placebo is extremely small."

You are 110% correct ! (But in drug studies).
-give a placebo medicine to a group who have hypertension. How many % will have reduced hypertension ? I guess NONE!
-give a placebo medicine to a group having high cholesterol. how many % will have reduced cholesterol ? I guess NONE!
--give a placebo medicine to a group having Increased liver enzymes. how many % will have reduced levels? I guess NONE!

And this list can go on and on! Thats why % of plscebo in drug studies are not high! Are you in pain, sometimes even Morphine will not help you (in some cases).

When it comes to supplements, it cant be conpared to drugs!
If I give you a sugarpill and tell you this will increase your strength, actually it IS possible you get stronger. Maybe you was giving just 50% of you in the gym (due to lack of motivation +++). So knowing you are taking something which will increase your strength is motivating you to push harder +++.and you WILL be stronger. Not because the pill is working but because you have increased from 50% to maybe 80% of your capacity..
I am not sure what studies you have seen but many studies I have seen on herbs, plants, many times placwbo group had same increase of size/strength as the group using the herb/plant.

Saying I have black and white view is not truth. Not i this case. This is logic, fact and being realistic.

I didn't compare it to drugs. In fact, I said remove all the driug studies and focus on supplement studies and you find the same thing. Placebo exists..in a very small percentage.

 

[clint3612]

I started a war......

 

[The_Old_Guy]

My point is that you are constantly criticizing and taking your pot shots at anyone who wants to try it (and other supps), states they had some results, or done'st have the exact data to make a case for you.

You do this with test boosters, epi, prime, and a host of other supps in which people beleive they are seeing results. You don't like supplement companies nor the industry as your edited post shows so what is the point of you being here? To save us all form the evil supp companies?

I won't ban you unless you break the rules but many people have already commented to me and can see that not only are you the old guy, but you fit right into the the old grumpy guy framework just perfectly.

I have no problem questioning ingredients. I have a problem with you being an ******* about it while constantly being negative to anyone that has either interest, tried it, or doens't need a double blind placebo study to spend $30 on a supplement.

Quote me anywhere I've berated an individual for taking/believing in a supplement. I try not to get personal, but if I have, I will apologize to them. All I ever remember doing is asking for scientific data, or point out that there is none.

As for the part about "exact" data - well, yeah, although your use of "exact" tends to tilt the favor of your argument. I usually ask for *any* data in resistance trained people...cuz that's who we are. And I'm not the only guy calling BS on things like -(-)Epi... but the other ones are old too, so maybe it's an age thing, LOL.

I'd complain about me too if I sold certain supplements. There *is* an ignore feature though.

 

[Admin]

Quote me anywhere I've berated an individual for taking/believing in a supplement. I try not to get personal, but if I have, I will apologize to them. All I ever remember doing is asking for scientific data, or point out that there is none.

Of course you try not to get personal, you are a bit smarter than that. You, much like Danes, revert to the "its placebo"...which you and I both know is the passive agreesive version of "you're too stupid to know its placebo". Or the old "show me the double blind placebo study or its BS" argument as if you actually thought it existed. You do like to ask questions in which you know there is no answer to try and bolster your arguement. Its not like people haven't seen this act before...

As for the part about "exact" data - well, yeah, although your use of "exact" tends to tilt the favor of your argument. I usually ask for *any* data in resistance trained people...cuz that's who we are. And I'm not the only guy calling BS on things like -(-)Epi... but the other ones are old too, so maybe it's an age thing, LOL.

I also remeber when ARA was bull**** as well by the expert "bro's" because the "data" didn't exist. In your world, any leap of faith leads to "BS".

Of course all those thousands of people using epi are lying or too stupid to know its placebo. That HAS to be it. And I also remember the test booster discussion where thebigt was definitely made to feel his results were "BS". No way anything could have worked. He was just fooled by the marketing. In other words, you're an idiot....without ever saying it.

I'd complain about me too if I sold certain supplements. There *is* an ignore feature though.

I could care less about what you say about any company. Quite honestly, that shows where the motivation is in your arguement. What I do care about is you making members feel as if they are stupid because they don't buy into your over-reaching sense of placebo in anything that works in this industry.

 

[Admin]

I started a war......

Nah...just hope to have an environement in which you aren't made to feel like an idiot if you actually liked Prime, or anything else the so called experts feel is BS.

 

[Kickstart7]

Nah...just hope to have an environement in which you aren't made to feel like an idiot if you actually liked Prime, or anything else the so called experts feel is BS.

I'm not defending either side, but I will say I payed a high price for it at a local supp store, ran two bottles and didn't see any results. I have however seen results from natty products such as X-gels, Ep1c and also cutler's king which is just PA basically. Other than that I am not a fan of a lot of natty anabolics.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Of course you try not to get personal, you are a bit smarter than that. You, much like Danes, revert to the "its placebo"...which you and I both know is the passive agreesive version of "you're too stupid to know its placebo". Or the old "show me the double blind placebo study or its BS" argument as if you actually thought it existed. You do like to ask questions in which you know there is no answer to try and bolster your arguement. Its not like people haven't seen this act before...

I also remeber when ARA was bull**** as well by the expert "bro's" because the "data" didn't exist. In your world, any leap of faith leads to "BS".

Of course all those thousands of people using epi are lying or too stupid to know its placebo. That HAS to be it. And I also remember the test booster discussion where thebigt was definitely made to feel his results were "BS". No way anything could have worked. He was just fooled by the marketing. In other words, you're an idiot....without ever saying it.

I could care less about what you say about any company. Quite honestly, that shows where the motivation is in your arguement. What I do care about is you making members feel as if they are stupid because they don't buy into your over-reaching sense of placebo in anything that works in this industry.

I believe the discussion that bigt was in, was me saying that test boosters make you horny, burn some fat, may make you feel better, and may raise your T by a couple hundred points - but 300 points is not going to add muscle/strength - and then we had that wonderful merry-go'round experience with the Test Enanthate study. I also recall (maybe incorrectly) that bigt said he specifically *didn't* take it for mass/strength, but for all of the above - to which I agree with. But hey, even though bigt and I are good I think - BigT, sorry buddy!

And I *don't* know about your 'passive/agressive' insinuation, but thanks for giving it.

And are you really arguing against asking for data? How horrible, asking for a smidgen of proof on a compound. Your track is "Just believe"... also an act people have seen before.

On -(-)Epi, I again just said - is there anything besides the old man hand strength study, and the blood plasma level study? If you equate that with me calling people stupid, well, I don't know what to tell you. I gotta say, you are coming across as implying that the questioning of any compound or supplement is defacto calling people stupid - which, could be convenient.

How would you like to see one call BS on a compound? If you give me an example, I'll try to follow it for the next dust up.

 

[Admin]

I believe the discussion that bigt was in, was me saying that test boosters make you horny, burn some fat, may make you feel better, and may raise your T by a couple hundred points - but 300 points is not going to add muscle/strength - and then we had that wonderful merry-go'round experience with the Test Enanthate study. I also recall (maybe incorrectly) that bigt said he specifically *didn't* take it for mass/strength, but for all of the above - to which I agree with. But hey, even though bigt and I are good I think - BigT, sorry buddy!

I think your presmise was, they don't work...at all. Its all BS. If you believe it, you're and idiot too...in a very passive aggressive manner.

And I *don't* know about your 'passive/agressive' insinuation, but thanks for giving it.

Of course you don't know.

And are you really arguing against asking for data? How horrible, asking for a smidgen of proof on a compound. Your track is "Just believe"... also an act people have seen before.

Where did I state that?

I like the sarcasm as well as if I implied anything of the sort. Passive aggressive, sarcastic....yeah, thats not on purpose. :lol:

On -(-)Epi, I again just said - is there anything besides the old man hand strength study, and the blood plasma level study? If you equate that with me calling people stupid, well, I don't know what to tell you. I gotta say, you are coming across as implying that the questioning of any compound or supplement is defacto calling people stupid - which, could be convenient.

No, I'm not implying anything. I simply made a statement that you go out of your way to try and made people feel stupid. I think I made that quite clear. There is no implying anything.

How would you like to see one call BS on a compound? If you give me an example, I'll try to follow it for the next dust up.

I didn't know compounds made statements.

As for telling you how to act...I think I already made that pretty clear, but thats really your choice. If you want to play the robin hood of the supplement industry saving all the bro's from the evil supplement companies brainwahsing people into sending them money, then you probably will want to go somewhere else because eventually you'll just get so frustrated, you'll just start lashing out. That act usually follows a predictable pattern.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Actually my premise was as stated, would you like me to go find that thread and quote myself? May take a while though, things to do.

You constantly come to the defense of "data-less" supplements. You make statements about how asking for double blind tests is somehow too much to ask. As for the sarcasm, just following your lead:

You do like to ask questions in which you know there is no answer to try and bolster your argument. Its not like people haven't seen this act before...

And we're hear again, woot! Everything I wrote about how you come across as the champion defender of (certain) companies/compounds is how I see it, which you deny. And how you see me as coming across, I too say is incorrect - and never the two shall meet.

I'll bet you a case of Water Chestnuts that an internet forum will never get me to "Lash Out" LOL.

 

[Admin]

Actually my premise was as stated, would you like me to go find that thread and quote myself? May take a while though, things to do.

I've already read it and thats what *I* believe your premise was.

You constantly come to the defense of "data-less" supplements. You make statements about how asking for double blind tests is somehow too much to ask. As for the sarcasm, just following your lead:

Actually, where am I defending any supplement in here? Please show me where I actually defended Prime or epi or any specific test booster? (other than LJ100)

"Data-less" ingredients peak my interest simply because they are "data-less"...in a very vague way.

Where did I state asking for studies is too much to ask?

I think I made my point very clear. The same as when I told reps to please stop pimping links and promo's in every thread because its really annoying members.....I"m telling you that you come off as ******* trying to make people feel stupid because they actually enjoyed Prime..or epi, or anything else YOU tihnk is BS...because its annoying members. Its that simple.

And we're hear again, woot! Everything I wrote about how you come across as the champion defender of (certain) companies/compounds is how I see it, which you deny.

What ingredients am I champion defender and what companies? Are we finally at the "that company pays me to defend them argument"? :lol:

I always like when that one finally makes an appearance. It means you have ran out of material. :lol:

And how you see me as coming across, I too say is incorrect - and never the two shall meet.

How you come across to me is MY opinion so....how can that be incorrect?

I'll bet you a case of Water Chestnuts that an internet forum will never get me to "Lash Out" LOL.

Oh, its not the usual Facebook type lashing out...its the questioning my morals and ethics by bringing up the money aspect...as if I'm being bought and sold to type this and defend them... Don't worry, I'm pretty numb to that now being accused of it for over a decade. I mean there is big correlation between USP, BLR, epi and LJ100. :lol: Oh yeah, money. I forgot, I'm bought and sold.

 

[thescience]

I found prime Added 90lbs to my squats. Less for my bench but still good. Didnt feel anything until the third week. If thats aceebo, im good with that, but ive been more stoked about products that ended up not working for me so i dont have alot of faith in my placebo abilities. This all said, prime definately has nonresponders, who express their bad experiences very loudly, most likely due to the heavy purchase price that yielded them nothing. Still, i have a problem with the water chestnut argument that keeps getting touted around here. We're talking about an extract, not a water chestnut. I find the people who get aggro about water chestnuts here DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT PRIME IS EXTRACTED FOR. Im sorry but if you want to say a compound only produces placebo effects, you should know what the compound is first

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Your post

Cool, so we know where we see each other.

 

[thescience]

So if it doesn't work for you, and someone else, its always seem to be placebo with you guys. Its amazing with the complexity of the human body, you seem to think that you guys are the template for results in everyone.

Ahahahha you guys have to admit that was funny a hell

 

[Admin]

Cool, so we know where we see each other.

So you're saying my opinion is based on money?

 

[thescience]

I happen to be on the side of the fence that doesnt think placebo runs the world. That said, i do know people who have a strong and genuine belief in placebo being everything and they dont believe humans have the capacity to determine if what they consume helps them. I feel i could rule out placebo from the following observations with prime:
1) no effects until week three. Why didnt my placebo help me out for over 21 days? Was it hiding? I was more excited the first ten days i felt nothing than by day 24 or so when the weights started piling on
2) the results have been consistant. For anyone who wants to rave about sugar pills or vitamin c, the fact is placebo is as whimsical as a mind, and it wont deliver rave results for exercise every day.
3) the results were just too extreme. My diet is very consistent and ive been lifting for 17 years. Changes in my strength are hard to come by. Its not like i felt the arbitrary "more energy" or "more pumped." The weights went up alot

 

[The_Old_Guy]

No, as I have no idea in the slightest about anything financial. That was my way of saying that there is no way I'm going to read any encyclopedia post from you, no matter if we each sit in this thread for the next week, and say "Holy cripes! Admin is right", and there is no way you will do the same with any encyclopedias I come back with. That was my way of ending participation in the never-ending 'reply-itus' - basically "Good talk, I'm done". But I'm sure we'll be here again, LOL.

 

[Admin]

No, as I have no idea in the slightest about anything financial. That was my way of saying that there is no way I'm going to read any encyclopedia post from you, no matter if we each sit in this thread for the next week, and say "Holy cripes! Admin is right", and there is no way you will do the same with any encyclopedias I come back with. That was my way of ending participation in the never-ending 'reply-itus' - basically "Good talk, I'm done". But I'm sure we'll be here again, LOL.

But thats the thing, my position was never a right or wrong and I never you said YOU were wrong in any thread. In fact, you very well could be right about it all, but thats not my point. I simply stated your mind doen'st seem open and you seem very condescending to those who choose to look at other possibilities. I am not here to protect companies, I'm here to try and provide a positive experience for members and if they constantly feel that they are deemed an idiot, indirectly or not, for simply saying they had positive results, then thats when I generally jump in.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

But thats the thing, my position was never a right or wrong and I never you said YOU were wrong in any thread. In fact, you very well could be right about it all, but thats not my point. I simply stated your mind doen'st seem open and you seem very condescending to those who choose to look at other possibilities. I am not here to protect companies, I'm here to try and provide a positive experience for members and if they constantly feel that they are deemed an idiot, indirectly or not, for simply saying they had positive results, then thats when I generally jump in.

I am absolutely not trying to make anyone feel stupid, so mea culpa if I have. The only thing I can say is that I'll be extra vigilant. How about instead of this:

Somebody show me any data that Water Chestnuts are anabolic. Hell, even in Ayurveda, they only specify general health, ulcers, pain relief and blood sugar regulation. Alatus has more data, even if just rats.

I do this:

Is there any data that Water Chestnuts are anabolic? In Ayurveda, they only specify general health, ulcers, pain relief and blood sugar regulation. Alatus has more data, even if just rats.

Because for the life of me, that's the best I can come up with

 

[Admin]

I am absolutely not trying to make anyone feel stupid, so mea culpa if I have. The only thing I can say is that I'll be extra vigilant. How about instead of this:



I do this:



Because for the life of me, that's the best I can come up with

No, I have zero data. But my stance is not one of protection, rather than looking at possibilites. Ten years ago I would have told you to throw any and all glutamine away and would have given you a mountain of studies that show it not doing anything at all in trained individuals except for an IV drip or muscle wasting diseases. But at 42, I have actaully tried it, compared it to when I was 32 and there is actually a reduction in DOMS and reduced amount of time between training muscle groups (sometihng that did not happen at 32). That is a benefit I would have told you would never happen...when I was 32. Things change and their are possibilities within the human body which sometimes does not show on paper.

This is also the basis for me looking at test boosters as well. I examine the possibloities and simply don't discount everyone's reaction as placebo.

 

[Danes]

No, I have zero data. But my stance is not one of protection, rather than looking at possibilites. Ten years ago I would have told you to throw any and all glutamine away and would have given you a mountain of studies that show it not doing anything at all in trained individuals except for an IV drip or muscle wasting diseases. But at 42, I have actaully tried it, compared it to when I was 32 and there is actually a reduction in DOMS and reduced amount of time between training muscle groups (sometihng that did not happen at 32). That is a benefit I would have told you would never happen...when I was 32. Things change and their are possibilities within the human body which sometimes does not show on paper.

This is also the basis for me looking at test boosters as well. I examine the possibloities and simply don't discount everyone's reaction as placebo.

Some adaptogens will work wonders for "older" guys compared to younger. So yes, there are some compounds which are working best when you are "older" .

 

[The_Old_Guy]

No, I have zero data. But my stance is not one of protection, rather than looking at possibilites. Ten years ago I would have told you to throw any and all glutamine away and would have given you a mountain of studies that show it not doing anything at all in trained individuals except for an IV drip or muscle wasting diseases. But at 42, I have actaully tried it, compared it to when I was 32 and there is actually a reduction in DOMS and reduced amount of time between training muscle groups (sometihng that did not happen at 32). That is a benefit I would have told you would never happen...when I was 32. Things change and their are possibilities within the human body which sometimes does not show on paper.

This is also the basis for me looking at test boosters as well. I examine the possibloities and simply don't discount everyone's reaction as placebo.

I'm a huge skeptic of the medical community as well, so 'data, data, data' isn't the be-all and end-all for me either. Believe me, my cabinets are stocked with supplements. AAMF, right now I'm taking Tonvara Tongkat Ali to see what it does. I'm doing a proper 8 week test - other than general health stuff, it is the only thing. I too, at 48, would rather use something natural, than chemical - if it actually works. My beef is with exaggerated claims without something generally accepted as valid, to back it up. I think that is reasonable to ask for. I also keep what I like to think are meticulous training notes - so I can see reps and weights. I don't automatically default to placebo, but I differ from you in what I think the magnitude of it's effect is in regards to supplementation and certain aspects of training.

Anyway, back to the tone of posts, like I said, I'll do my best to not come across as an a$$. But I'm still going to question certain claims in the most polite manner as I can

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I found prime Added 90lbs to my squats. Still, i have a problem with the water chestnut argument that keeps getting touted around here. We're talking about an extract, not a water chestnut. I find the people who get aggro about water chestnuts here DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT PRIME IS EXTRACTED FOR. Im sorry but if you want to say a compound only produces placebo effects, you should know what the compound is first

Unfortunately, in the area of resistance training, there is scant data available on the Glycoside extract for Tribulus Aquaticus. So we only have the Ad Copy to go by:

How does USPLabs Prime work? This is an interesting question. Because we found no evidence for androgenic activity, we believe it to have anti-glucocorticoid effects, providing a possible mechanism for the increase muscle mass seen with USPLabs Prime. It may also be something related to improved nutrient absorption or utilization.

What can I expect to experience when taking USPLabs Prime?

Muscle Gains
Does not cause shut-down or suppression!
Promotes Muscle Gain of Thick, Dense Variety!
Supports Re-composition Effects
Promotes Strength Gains
Increased Recovery Speed

Train harder and longer than you ever have

What you need is something that is highly anabolic, yet doesn't suppress testosterone production. Sounds easy; yet such compounds are rarer than a 1903 T3 Honus Wagner (for all you baseball card collectors out there). By now, you expect USPlabs to deliver unique products and formulations others simply cannot.

We have, in fact, found a formula which promotes anabolic activity in humans without hormonal suppression!

In our own pilot study, a group of 12 exercising men were found to experience the following, on average, over a 30-day period while using USPLabs Prime:

Increase in body weight

Increase in lean body mass

Decrease in fat mass

Increase in bench press strength (3 RM)

Increase in squat strength (3 RM)

How long until USPLabs Prime starts to work?

Most have noticed increased workout production and overall body hardening within a few days.* However, everyone agrees by the end of week 3 USPLabs Prime is in full force - running through your veins and demonstrating the unique anabolic effects!

Here's a timeline based upon user feedback:

Week 1
You will begin to experience the power of USPLabs Prime during your workouts. Weight may begin to feel lighter than normal and you'll begin to have great workout after great workout - even on days you don't necessarily enter the gym with the highest amount of intensity or energy. You may find the ability to summons strength almost at will. You also may begin to notice the anabolic effects kicking in where you're whole body will begin to harden.

Week 2
You'll continue to have awesome workouts. During these workouts you'll begin to feel an intense full-body muscle fullness and hardness. While it's a pump per se, it's very unique and unlike that from creatine, NO or other products. In addition, the recovery abilities will begin to kick in. USPLabs Prime speeds the muscle recovery process, leading to increased training intensity, volume & frequency.

Week 3
This is the week our subjects cannot stop talking about. For most, by the end of Week 3 is when USPLabs Prime REALLY begins to impart its force upon your body. You'll fly through your workouts, your body will be hard as a freakin rock - all day long.

Week 4
The great thing about USPLabs Prime is it just continues to get better and better the longer you use it. During week 4 is where you'll begin to set personal records frequently. Weights that were heavy in the past are going up like butter - and you feel like THE MAN. By this point you should be getting plenty of compliments from those around you noticing you're bigger and stronger. And don't be surprised that your body is in such an anabolic state that you get a chest pump when you're squatting!

Week 6 and Beyond
At this point you should have put on some serious, REAL muscle mass. It will be thick and dense, not simply water weight. Some subjects have even noted their asthetics have changed and they now have a V-taper that they've never had before. They have more muscle (thick and dense) with a more athletic build.

Do I need to Cycle USPLabs Prime?

Well, you won't want to come off! And since it does not statistically affect hormonal levels one way or another, you can stay on for long periods. But, just to be safe, we suggest 12 weeks on, 4 weeks off. Or at least two, 3 week breaks per year.

Does it have any side effects?

People are training so intense and heavy and gaining muscle & strength at such a rapid pace, that the Central Nervous system cannot keep up. So that is why we recommend using USPLabs Prime on a 5 days on, 2 days off schedule. Certainly, it can be used every day, just take this as fair warning if you end up crushing your CNS because you're training balls-to-the-wall everyday! You will be training as such a heightening level, both mentally and physically, you just have to monitor yourself.

Can I stack USPLabs Prime with any other supplements?

The ultimate stack is ALWAYS going to include Anabolic-Pump due to it's ability to increase the effectiveness of every supplement you take & properly utilize your food intake - which is critical to any plan. In addition, adding PowerFULL to the mix forms what we believe to be the greatest stack ever assembled.

USPLabs Prime contains two extremely potent, novel ingredients.

SuperAnabolic

SuperAnabolic is a rare species of herb in the same family as Tribulus Terrestris. However, once you try USPLabs Prime you'll soon realize the comparisons stop there. The glycosides contained in USPLabs Prime make the saponins of tribulous terrestris look like the placebo! Tribulus Aquaticus contains active components called glycosides. However, the components in USPLabs Prime are unique to our specific extract of Tribulus Aquaticus and have not been found in any other compound in the world. These glycosides are believed to exert their anabolic effects through non androgen receptor-mediated mechanisms, perhaps by possessing anti-glucocorticoid activity. In any case, it's obvious that these glycosides allow for a retention of nitrogen and either a decline in the catabolic processes related to skeletal muscle or an improvement in protein synthesis; the end result of which is increased muscle mass.

CellMend

The Ayurvedic system points to a wonder-fruit called terminalia chebula. Its viewed as one of the most potent CNS and body adaptagenic compounds the world has ever seen. It's proposed that terminalla chebula balances the entire body mentally and physically - placing your body in a perfect state of balance during times of intense stress.

Additional Terminalia Chebula benefits:

It's thought to stimulate & support the liver.

When taken with meals, it's believed to sharpen the intellect, increases strength, stimulates the senses, expel urine, stool and other waste materials from the body.

Based on its comprehensive properties, it promotes appetite and helps in digestion.

A 90lb increase is amazing. I believe 1-Andro only gave ~35-40lb increase in 1RM on Squats, but I'd have to go back and look at that study. If you could direct me to more information on the Glycoside extract, it would be much appreciated.

 

[Admin]

I'm a huge skeptic of the medical community as well, so 'data, data, data' isn't the be-all and end-all for me either. Believe me, my cabinets are stocked with supplements. AAMF, right now I'm taking Tonvara Tongkat Ali to see what it does. I'm doing a proper 8 week test - other than general health stuff, it is the only thing. I too, at 48, would rather use something natural, than chemical - if it actually works. My beef is with exaggerated claims without something generally accepted as valid, to back it up. I think that is reasonable to ask for. I also keep what I like to think are meticulous training notes - so I can see reps and weights. I don't automatically default to placebo, but I differ from you in what I think the magnitude of it's effect is in regards to supplementation and certain aspects of training.

Anyway, back to the tone of posts, like I said, I'll do my best to not come across as an a$$. But I'm still going to question certain claims in the most polite manner as I can

As I told Danes in a PM, the problem with test boosters and many natural anablics is that muscle grwoth by definition is slow and long term...so anything that really helps that process will also by definition be slow and long term and tough to gauge results IMO. I think a low percentage of "help" often gets thrown to the side as non-existant in the post PH world.

 

[Danes]

As I told Danes in a PM, the problem with test boosters and many natural anablics is that muscle grwoth by definition is slow and long term...so anything that really helps that process will also by definition be slow and long term and tough to gauge results IMO. I think a low percentage of "help" often gets thrown to the side as non-existant in the post PH world.

You are correct! And thats why my eyes roll in my head when I read some of the posts where people are gaining 10lbs less than 2 weeks and crushing their PRs even the first week While on natural anabolic or a testbooster.(and claiming the product is working like mad) It is just not realistic at all.

I remember when I gave a huge dose Ecdysteroids to my friend. He stopped after 2 weeks. I asked him why he stopped taking it? He said "baah this is crap. I dont feel anything from it".
Feel what?? Its not a stim! And natural anabolic is nothing you directly feel in most cases (you feel it if it increase Glycogen retention, N.O boost etc). But mTOR signaling activation/MPS is not you directly feel. You will see changes after months and not just after 4 weeks!

 

[Danes]

Unfortunately, in the area of resistance training, there is scant data available on the Glycoside extract for Tribulus Aquaticus. So we only have the Ad Copy to go by:



A 90lb increase is amazing. I believe 1-Andro only gave ~35-40lb increase in 1RM on Squats, but I'd have to go back and look at that study. If you could direct me to more information on the Glycoside extract, it would be much appreciated.

Reading the week4 and 6. Thats insane statements, like week 6:

"At this point you should have put on some serious, REAL muscle mass. It will be thick and dense, not simply water weight. Some subjects have even noted their asthetics have changed and they now have a V-taper that they've never had before. They have more muscle (thick and dense) with a more athletic build.".

I mean , Admin made a valid point about natural anabolics and testboosters. The insane effect will not come within couple of weeks. If it boost MPS/nitrogen retention, since its natural , it will give a slow and long term effect.

 

[Jiigzz]

The way I see it is that a supplement may or may not do as claimed, but for a lot of people it can be the difference between going to the gym and not going to the gym or between having a good workout or a bad one. For some people, the products don't actually need to do anything BUT create a mind set and that could well be a cost worth "sinking".

If it keeps the workouts exciting, if it keeps them in the gym and if it helps them push through mental barriers then sometimes it doesn't really matter what they use. I know a good pre workout can really put me in the mind-set when a workout is the last thing on my mind. Simply taking it leaves me no option but to gym, so I get on with it and go.

In much the same way I use nootropics to put me into "study and focus" mode.

 

[Admin]

You are correct! And thats why my eyes roll in my head when I read some of the posts where people are gaining 10lbs less than 2 weeks and crushing their PRs even the first week While on natural anabolic or a testbooster.(and claiming the product is working like mad) It is just not realistic at all.

You can gain strength and lbs simply by creatine and increase in water retention and glycogen within a week....so in terms of gains and strenght, its working..but its not muscle mass. So I still don't discount people who can claim weight increase that coincides with strength. A simple increase in glycogen can do that.

 

[Danes]

You can gain strength and lbs simply by creatine and increase in water retention and glycogen within a week....so in terms of gains and strenght, its working..but its not muscle mass. So I still don't discount people who can claim weight increase that coincides with strength. A simple increase in glycogen can do that.

Yes, like I said before, its pretty normal to gain weight even without changing diet with PA (just after couple of weeks)but its not due to mTOR signaling activation. Itis due to glycogen retention. But like you said, that has NOTHING to do with the muscle mass.

But still, its huge difference between a compound which does not have any glycogen, water retention effect, and one which have.(the second one has more "acute" effect). So taking a plant/herb or any compound which does not increase water/glycogen retention , and claiming they added weight after just 1-2 weeks. Its more due to calorie surplus

 

[Admin]

Yes, like I said before, its pretty normal to gain weight even without changing diet with PA (just after couple of weeks)but its not due to mTOR signaling activation. Itis due to glycogen retention. But like you said, that has NOTHING to do with the muscle mass

Yes, but that effect can increase muscle mass over time...so in a sense, it IS working as intended.

 

[Danes]

Yes, but that effect can increase muscle mass over time...so in a sense, it IS working as intended.

Sure. But I believe you know what I mean
You and me do agree.. no sick gains on natty anabolics after couple of weeks or one month

 

[JRob23]

did people actually get gains from Prime? I remember the vast majority of reviews I saw being far from positive ones

I had some great runs with Prime. Almost all positive experiences, including mine, didn't result in a noticeable difference until tapping into 9+ pills a day.

 

[Toren]

If people get what they deem to be positive results fom taking certain supplements, regardless of why they get those results, the taking of said supplement (in combination with training) has in essence worked. There will be no bubble-boy-like experiments that will ever be performed on dietary supplements. I feel confident in saying that.

Having said that, I too am skeptical of many natural (and chemical) supplements on the market. Some I believe are no more than over-hyped nonsense with 'scientific studies' done by some third-party with an agenda. While others have some solid clinical backing that's shows promise in various studies. Not to mention the companies that put out products that come nowhere even close to meeting label claims if even at all. It's always going to be hard to say what will work for whom and under what circumstances it will work. Imagine a world though where every natural supplement is slagged and slandered and every user is made to feel less-than for having used it, all before it ever gets off the ground. Think about a situation where big corporations (pharmaceutiical companies) are allowed to come in and slander a company because they want to explore natural alternatives to accelerating human 'growth'. Then imagine how small the supplement industry would be and consider how expensive all of the supplements within that world would be.

As a society we rail against the government and their over-bearing nature in which they try to control what we put into our bodies and when we are allowed to do so. We want the freedom to take what we want and to use supplements as we see fit, without interference from others. Now, apply this to the supplement industry. If you think my point is way off topic now, consider that what I am saying relates to the size and scope and freedom of the industry. It IS the SIZE and SCOPE and FREEDOM of the industry that allows us to have so many products brought to market. So many products for us to choose from and judge on our own terms. Some will be winners and plenty will be losers but at the end of the day, if supplement A works for just a few people and it transfrorms their way of thinking, way of training, or even their way of life, I think that's a good thing. If a bottle of Tribulus Alatus helps some overweight couch potato to start training for the first time in his life and he inturn sees some amazing results, I say that bottle of 'nonsense' worked just perfectly. Be it placebo, muscle memory, increased training, extra motivation, whatever works for any of us, this can't be a negative thing. As consumers we just need to learn to pick our spots a little better and spend our money more wisely, not to mention having our priorities in a place where no 'bottle' will allow us to dictate how we live, eat and train. Maybe then we wouldn't feel so slighted when a particular bottle of pills didn't do anything for us.

l've seen studies on compounds that I myself might be interested in taking. No matter what the studies say though, I will always be skeptical until I myself have tried the compound. We definitely all respond differently to many different compounds and for too many reasons to possiby account for. If it works for you, it works, simply put, end of story. The human body is far too complex for anybody here (or anybody that will appear here in the near future) to discount that something may very well work for person A while not working for person B. There are just too many variables.

Now don't get me wrong, logs and reviews certainly help to paint a picture that shows a specific trend for a given supplement. We see trends for products that either point up or down after they have been on the market for a while and more users have used them. This type of feedback is great and is one of the major factors in why we love bodybuilding forums. In the end, the masses will decide what lives and what dies, for the most part. I just hope the supplement industry continues to be vibrant for many years to come and that companies continue to try and bring things to market that may finally be that 'pill' we've all been wating for (tongue-in-cheek). Until then, I say bring on the chemicals, the extracts, the seeds and the grass. It's in our nature to explore, to reep, and to sow. If we stop doing that, the industry will cease to exist and then we will truly have something to debate......who's fault was it anyway? :]

And in closing, if you want steroid-like results, take steroids! Seriously though, don't take steroids! Drugs are bad.


- Toren

 

[thescience]

Unfortunately, in the area of resistance training, there is scant data available on the Glycoside extract for Tribulus Aquaticus. So we only have the Ad Copy to go by:



A 90lb increase is amazing. I believe 1-Andro only gave ~35-40lb increase in 1RM on Squats, but I'd have to go back and look at that study. If you could direct me to more information on the Glycoside extract, it would be much appreciated.

It is amazing, thats why i have like 30 bottles stashed until the second coming.

 

[clint3612]

It is amazing, thats why i have like 30 bottles stashed until the second coming.

Please sale some!!!!

 

[thescience]

Please sale some!!!!

i know. i cant. honestly, i would buy more if people had it

 

[ma70]

Why was prime discontinued in the first place?

 

[GQNemesis]

It is amazing, thats why i have like 30 bottles stashed until the second coming.

Thats like 2,700 increase in squats

wow so jelly

 

[The_Old_Guy]

It is amazing, thats why i have like 30 bottles stashed until the second coming.

Awesome! Any luck finding that Glycoside info?

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I tried prime in the last year using the 6:9 protocol. I didnt get anything from it. , lol not even placebo...i was expecting some good results wit all the urban legends i hear about this stuff!

 

[Danes]

Why was prime discontinued in the first place?

I bet they are changing the formula

 

[Danes]

i know. i cant. honestly, i would buy more if people had it

PM if you want more

 

[Captn_the]

I think Prime is all about the dosing. I ran it-no crazy gains. But I only did one bottle and probably spread it out too thin.

It's a herbal tribulus supplement you'd need to stack it with dbol for gainz

 

[3pic_B3ast]

It's a herbal tribulus supplement you'd need to stack it with dbol for gainz

Yeah wasn't sure if it was the prime or dbol, good to know thanks!

 

[thescience]

Awesome! Any luck finding that Glycoside info?

What glycoside info? My direct empiricsl experience was enough for me. Usplans did a pretty good job keeping the info under wraps

 

[thescience]

Why was prime discontinued in the first place?

A usplabs rep claimed demand was there but the raws went up in price. I did notice, though, that i was able to score bottles of shelves like 6 months after it was discontinued; not sure if that indicates whether people wanted it or not, but i mean i sort of feel like if there was a will to get affordable actives there would be a way. It diesnt really look like usplabs is going in that sort if direction though; nowadays i just see them redistributing amino acids

 

[Woody]

There are still places that sell it

 

[clint3612]

There are still places that sell it

I think those days are over.