questions after 3 cycles of M1T

[former_SlimJim]

I’ve decided it is time to post and get some feedback on my cycles that I’ve taken. I have never used ph’s before but I decided I better give them a try before they are banned. I did my homework on this site and decided to use m1t and 4ad. Yes I know m1t is not recommended for a first cycle but with the ban coming up I wanted to try it before it was illegal so I could stock up on it as long as it worked for me with relatively few sides.



1st cycle

10 days - ph

5mg m1t & 600mg 4ad (oral)

178 to 185lbs – 13% body fat

gained 7lbs muscle



14 days – pct

nolva - 40mg 1st wk & 20 mg 2nd

tribulus, milk thistle, & ala

185 to 187 – 14% body fat

gained 2lbs fat



I was really happy with my first cycle. I gained a total of 7lbs of muscle with only 2lbs gain in body fat during pct. I had slight lethargy the first day of m1t and the first day of pct, which amounted to a couple yawns during the day. No big deal on the sides and ready for more mass so I decided to bump up the m1t during the next cycle for greater gains (bad move).



2nd cycle

14 days - ph

10mg m1t & 600mg 4ad (oral)

187 to 187lbs – 14% bf at begin - 11% body fat at end

lost 6lbs fat and gained 6lbs muscle



14 days – pct

same as before

187 to 189 – 12% body fat at end

gained 2lbs fat



I was not nearly as happy with this cycle. By day three, I had lower back cramps, high BP, insomnia at night, lethargy during the day, and no appetite. I almost went off cycle because of them. The high BP, insomnia, and lethargy went away within a couple more days so I kept on the program. The back cramps and the appetite both got worse though. I considered increasing the 4ad to help with the sides but from what I understand, 4ad doesn’t help for appetite and back pains. The loss of appetite caused me the most problems because I wasn’t eating as much as I should. I would eat until I was gagging, which was usually about half of what I should eat. A couple of times I got nauseated just thinking about food and would dread having to eat. In the end, it probably wasn’t a bad cycle because I gained 6lbs of muscle and lost 4lbs of fat. It’s just that in comparison to the first cycle this was sub-par performance. After this experience, I decided to try a 5mg m1t only cycle.



3rd cycle

14 days - ph

5mg m1t only

189 to 191lbs – 12% bf

gained 2lbs muscle



14 days – pct

same as before

This is only day 4 so no stats



No sides at all this time around but the gains are much less than they were on the first cycle. Only 2lbs of muscle on a 14 day cycle of 5mg m1t as compared to 7lbs on a 10 day cycle of 5mg m1t / 600mg 4ad oral. I don’t think the low dose of oral 4ad the first cycle would of made that big of difference in the gains so there has to be a substantial diminishing return on using subsequent m1t cycles.



This leads me to many questions for my next cycle. The biggest problem is the next cycle will be after the ban goes into effect assuming they pass it in October as everyone thinks. I have no time to try other ph’s before I make a substantial purchase before the ban and I definitely want to buy enough to last a couple years.



The many questions:

What kind of diminishing returns do others get on subsequent cycles of m1t?

Do the sides lessen on subsequent cycles to where the dosage can be increased?

Does increasing the dose really help the gains? (From what I understand, it doesn’t.)

Is there something that will increase appetite? I know of one ph that does, but is there something else?

Should I move on to 1 test / 4ad cycles for awhile?

After switching things up a little will a cycle of m1t be affective again?

 

[tattoopierced1]

for the back pain I believe you are supposed to increase your potassium intake...I think that will help out with the cramping.

 

[ryansm]

How much time did you take off in between these cycles? You really need to take a lot more time off. I will only run m1t, if I do at all, once maybe twice a year. Take some time off, and then go with a 1-test/4-ad transdermal.

 

[former_SlimJim]

How much time did you take off in between these cycles? You really need to take a lot more time off. I will only run m1t, if I do at all, once maybe twice a year. Take some time off, and then go with a 1-test/4-ad transdermal.

I have done the 3 cycles 2 weeks on (except the first). 2 weeks pct, and 2 weeks off everything. This is all I intended to do before some time off. I decided to try 3 short cycles instead of one longer one to avoid the hard shutdown and to spread out the gains somewhat. I am considering 1test ethergels / 4ad oral for another 3 short cycles in a couple months. I decided to keep everything oral because this is a top secret endeavor and the transdermal would be too obvious that I am using something.

All things considered, I've gained 13lbs with a lower body fat using m1t. Can I expect the same kind of gains using 1test ethergels in 3 short cycles? Can I expect the m1t to work again maybe 6 months down the road?

 

[former_SlimJim]

for the back pain I believe you are supposed to increase your potassium intake...I think that will help out with the cramping.

Yes potassium helps for cramping, but I thought it didn't work for m1t back cramps. I will give it a try the next time around to see.

 

[ryansm]

M1t is one of the only steroids that can be run for shorter cycles. 1-test needs more time to kick in, I say run the ethergels for 6 weeks. As far as taking m1t again, 6 months would be sufficient some people may disagree with me but it is your health. There are other things out there to use, be patient.

 

[former_SlimJim]

M1t is one of the only steroids that can be run for shorter cycles. 1-test needs more time to kick in, I say run the ethergels for 6 weeks. As far as taking m1t again, 6 months would be sufficient some people may disagree with me but it is your health. There are other things out there to use, be patient.

Yes patients is the key. I've been at 193 before and would of never even tried ph's before reaching 200 if they weren't being banned shortly. Now that I see how quick it puts on mass, I am hooked. I am really concerned about longer cycles because of the shutdown. My girlfriend is very anti-drug so the shrinking package along with the mass increase may tip her off. She's been with roid users before so she knows all the signs and it definitely would be a deal-breaker for her.

 

[uridium245]

Taurine

Potassium works good, but from my own experience I would add 1000 mg of Taurine a day. I started taking it during my second M1T+4AD Trans cycle and never had to deal with cramps again. Plus it's cheap, I think I paid like $5.00 for a bottle of 500 mg pills.

 

[Jayhawkk]

I've ran 4 Cycles of M1T and actually ended up lowering my dosage to 15mg a day. part because the lower back pains would not subside at higher dosages no matter what potassium or taurine I took and partly because my best gains at 20mg with sides I felt I could lower a bit. I've been as high as 30mg ED and as low as 10mg ED.

15mg I still get somewhat lower back pain but it's bearable. Any changes in gains i can blame on my diet or lack thereof. That and lack of rest.


So in short I didn't have any diminishing returns on subsequent cycles.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Q: What kind of diminishing returns do others get on subsequent cycles of m1t?
My A: From what I've seen the first cycle is the best, and the second cycle is decent but less weight gain (same strength gain).

Do the sides lessen on subsequent cycles to where the dosage can be increased?
My A: Unique per person.

Does increasing the dose really help the gains? (From what I understand, it doesn’t.)
My A: It's overkill over 20mg. You'd have to be 300lbs to require anything over 20mg. Do I have the lab study? no. Feedback suggests this however.

Is there something that will increase appetite? I know of one ph that does, but is there something else?
My A: 4-ad does, and im surprised you didnt think so. 1,4andro like your thinking... but that would require a 4 week front load.


Should I move on to 1 test / 4ad cycles for awhile?
My A: Yes.

After switching things up a little will a cycle of m1t be affective again?
My A: Yes I believe so, in fact I'll tell you for sure in a couple weeks. Let the androgen clear your system and give the receptors a break. Detox in the meantime.

 

[former_SlimJim]

Potassium works good, but from my own experience I would add 1000 mg of Taurine a day. I started taking it during my second M1T+4AD Trans cycle and never had to deal with cramps again. Plus it's cheap, I think I paid like $5.00 for a bottle of 500 mg pills.

I was already taking 675mg of taurine per day as part of my creatine cocktail. I will bump that up alittle the next time around and see if it along with the potassium will help.

 

[former_SlimJim]

I've ran 4 Cycles of M1T and actually ended up lowering my dosage to 15mg a day. part because the lower back pains would not subside at higher dosages no matter what potassium or taurine I took and partly because my best gains at 20mg with sides I felt I could lower a bit. I've been as high as 30mg ED and as low as 10mg ED.

15mg I still get somewhat lower back pain but it's bearable. Any changes in gains i can blame on my diet or lack thereof. That and lack of rest.


So in short I didn't have any diminishing returns on subsequent cycles.

My strength gains were about the same all 3 cycles, but my weight gains did lessen with each one. I understand why I leaned out the 2nd cycle because of the loss of appetite - my muscle mass did increase inspite of that - almost as much as the 1st cycle. Where I'm confused is on the 3rd cycle when I went back down in dosage I only put on 2lbs in two weeks instead of 5 or 6 like I was expecting.

So how long did you run your cycles? How long between them?

 

[former_SlimJim]

Is there something that will increase appetite? I know of one ph that does, but is there something else?
My A: 4-ad does, and im surprised you didnt think so. 1,4andro like your thinking... but that would require a 4 week front load.

After reading alot about 4ad, I didn't notice too much said about it increasing appetite so that's why I didn't think it would help much for that. I only included a low dose of it to offset the sides I was expecting - mainly the loss of libido, which never seemed to be a problem until the last couple days of the 3rd cycle, which was the m1t only cycle. I was only taking 600 mg orally so I'm sure I was only getting a small dose of it. Possibly if I doubled it or used it transdermally or pinned it, I would of noticed an increase in appetite. 1,4andro is what I was thinking of, but a 4 week preload is unrealistic since I am trying to do short cycles.

 

[CDB]

After reading alot about 4ad, I didn't notice too much said about it increasing appetite so that's why I didn't think it would help much for that. I only included a low dose of it to offset the sides I was expecting - mainly the loss of libido, which never seemed to be a problem until the last couple days of the 3rd cycle, which was the m1t only cycle. I was only taking 600 mg orally so I'm sure I was only getting a small dose of it. Possibly if I doubled it or used it transdermally or pinned it, I would of noticed an increase in appetite. 1,4andro is what I was thinking of, but a 4 week preload is unrealistic since I am trying to do short cycles.

Go with a transdermal I'd say. An injectable is likely to be tied to an ester which makes the timing of PCT harder to come up with. Not too hard, but why complicate matters, you know? If you were taking that much 4-AD orally you were getting a low dose, because it has poor oral bioavailability. The transdermal on the other hand is good.

Like others have said, take a break for a while. Then just go with a 1-Test/4-AD transdermal. You could even buy the powders and make your own to save some money.

 

[former_SlimJim]

Go with a transdermal I'd say. An injectable is likely to be tied to an ester which makes the timing of PCT harder to come up with. Not too hard, but why complicate matters, you know? If you were taking that much 4-AD orally you were getting a low dose, because it has poor oral bioavailability. The transdermal on the other hand is good.

Like others have said, take a break for a while. Then just go with a 1-Test/4-AD transdermal. You could even buy the powders and make your own to save some money.

I am considering the transdermal route although I've been reading on here about pinning 1test / 4ad with no ester. The main drawback is twice a day injections since there is no ester to lengthen out the half-life. In some ways I think it may be better just because I believe I could hide the injections easier than I can hide smearing a tablespoon of transdermal on twice daily. On the other hand, if I get caught pinning, I might as well throw all of my stuff out in the front lawn to save my girlfiend all of the work.

 

[CDB]

I am considering the transdermal route although I've been reading on here about pinning 1test / 4ad with no ester. The main drawback is twice a day injections since there is no ester to lengthen out the half-life. In some ways I think it may be better just because I believe I could hide the injections easier than I can hide smearing a tablespoon of transdermal on twice daily. On the other hand, if I get caught pinning, I might as well throw all of my stuff out in the front lawn to save my girlfiend all of the work.

Honestly if you want to keep the relationship I'd say ditch the hormones and go with a natural size targeted system, like HST. However if you do still want to go with the hormones and don't mind the risk of losing the woman, go with the trans route 'cause there's only twice a day you need to be alone to do it, or inject but use a substance with an ester so the injections aren't too frequent. I've even seen 4-AD in decanoate ester injectable, which apparently would require a hell of a front load but would require less frequent injections.

 

[former_SlimJim]

Honestly if you want to keep the relationship I'd say ditch the hormones and go with a natural size targeted system, like HST. However if you do still want to go with the hormones and don't mind the risk of losing the woman, go with the trans route 'cause there's only twice a day you need to be alone to do it, or inject but use a substance with an ester so the injections aren't too frequent. I've even seen 4-AD in decanoate ester injectable, which apparently would require a hell of a front load but would require less frequent injections.

Every time I get into the 190's like I am now, my weight gain stagnates so I've tried many different routes to break into the 200's. I have tried many different training styles and have found that HIT seems to work the best for me. I seem to be very suseptable to overtraining caused by too much volume or too much frequency. Rest and eating seems to put on more muscle than anything else that I do. I'm not sure if I'm at my natural limit, but to put things in perspective I am 6 foot tall and weighed 128lbs six years ago. Now I am at 193 as of this morning (up 2lbs during pct). Ph's seem to be more necessary at this point if I want to keep gaining.

The trans sounds like the way to go. Don't I have to worry about my girlfriend or kids coming into contact with the transdermal on my body? Is there a residue or odor? As far as the girlfriend goes, she doesn't really care that I take supplements and I think she could handle the transdermal if I handled it right. Pinning I'm sure wouldn't fly - I just like to consider all of my options no matter how far out they are.