Well, to be fair, supplementing with colostrum does seem to show an increase in IGF-1 levels in training humans so if PF3 is very close to what colostrum is doing, it's not a large leap of the imagination that PF3 can have at least some recovery benefits. Actual notable anabolic effects though, just like with Bio-Gro, I don't believe that PF3 could really provide any notable anabolic effects.
. i can see why you would want to shift the discussion now that your claims about igg/colostrum are crumbling. i put the links up to illustrate that igg ect has effect beyond the mere effect of gut inflammation that you have limited it to until this post.
ok, so now youve gone from saying that the contents in colostrum and pf3 merely have an anti inflammatory effect on the gut to finally admitting to the existance of its benefits on endurance; once again you have shifted your argument. also, dont you remember saying this about colostrum?:
looks like youve changed your stance, again. glad to see my posts , which you're deriding, are having such an effect on where you stand.
Can I please have these answered without having to read through 46 references on my own? And maybe with a touch of civility? Y'know actual discussion rather than just having a rep belittle my questions for pages on end? Especially when so far, the references I've gone through from the write-up were so lackluster...
I have seen no study thus far that supports this notion. What I have found is the study I referred to previously where they have seen increases in IGf-1 but this was due to the body being signaled to produce more rather than the actual IGf-1 from colostrum having been able to get into plasma circulation intact.
This is bananas if you have not the answers you seeking through all this I think you will not get it but that just humble opinion I have.
I totally agree Touey. If they had the answers to those two specific questions, they would have given them by now.
yeah, they chinese i think wanted america disqualified because of the bovine igf-1 in the bloodstream. the video you referenced me from isatori also mentions how this happens at the end of it
So, the IGf-1 actually made it into circulation in plasma? I was thinking about the Mero study from 2002(?) where they found the IGf-1 level increase of 17%(?) and IgA increase of 30% in saliva but in that study they noted that they didn't believe the IGf-1 increase was due to actual bovine IGf-1 making it into circulation in plasma but rather the colostrum may have signalling abilities to get the body to increase IGf-1 production when under a training regimen.
i wasnt referring to the merc study; havent read it yet. im referring to the colostrum dispute in the 94 olympics and the video i mentioned was the promo video you told me about in the other thread
Gotcha. Yeah, I think the best study I've read has got to be the Mero study from 2002. iSatori also uses that as one of their reference studies. You should definitely check it out as I don't think it's a study that gets enough attention even though it pretty much validates colostrum as having a positive impact on strength and endurance athletes. I think there was an earlier study as well from the 90s tackling the same subject (colostrum's effects on IGf-1, IgG, and IgA in trained individuals), so the Mero study was essentially done to validate the study from the 90s as well as trying to gain new insight into the effects of colostrum on trained individuals.
if you have no agenda, then you should ONLY ask questions instead of making unfounded statements against pf3 and colostrum. instead youve done everything from try to say it has no shown medical benefits, to saying it has effect on IBS-d, to saying the fda approved drug for ibs-d is possibly "faked,"(instead of realizing its status as a drug warrants its efficacy) to saying it ONLY has effects on bowel inflammation, to saying colostrum had 20 years where it failed to demonstrate any athletic enhancement, to saying that it has endurance benefits though only on marathon runners. THOSE ARE CONCLUSIONS, NOT QUESTIONS andwhen i hear all that slander, i have to respond. if you just had questions, maybe youde get an answer to your satisfaction and maybe you wouldnt, but your are asserting many false things (that youve abandoned) that you never should have asserted being a board sponsor for another company.i know that you wish that you were just a curious consumer, in an last ditch effort to attack me that way, but THATS NOT WHATS GOING ON HERE. youve been nothing but rude, and youve been absurdly skeptical on several matters.
it does matter; if you are a board sponsor for another company and you make a series of false statements about a product (independantly of any questions youve asked) that have no backing whatsoever against a competitors product (sentiments which youve abandoned), you leave me to do the clean up work of correcting you instead of answering questions you plopped in later on. if you want to have wrong conclusions, thats fine, but if you dont want me to think youre just a desperate rep, then you should provide whatever knowledge youve come across to lead you to believe those false conclusions, instead of just stating them. if you had done that, we would both be discussing things weve come across that seem to contradict; instead, you have incessantly put forth unfounded criticisms about something you admit you havent researched. as you dont have contradictory data, you have PURELY asserted the very bias you claim not to have. im not your doormat, and i wont run myself ragged trying to please someone as disrespectful as you have been when you cant even bother to posit ANY DATA behind all of the false statements youve made, wheresoever you may have obtained them. when you say studies for the ibs-d drug may be fake, thats false. when you shift to say the only benefit of these substances is on gut inflammation, thats false. when you go on to say colostrum had 20 years and in that time it did not show any athletic benefit, thats false. when you shift to admit there is a benefit of colostrum to endurance, but its invalid when comparing olympians to bodybuilders, thats false (as the elevated igf-1 levels demonstrate). when you act that shady, i have to announce what has transpired in the debate. your unfounded statements have been contradicted, my statements based on studies, olympic use and testing ect have not been contradicted with any information. you see the difference? balenced discussions need to have information on BOTH sides if youre going to be making statements, not this one-sided, endless demand you have of me. that dance is an ongoing problem in these forums, and its a problem that wouldnt exist if people making false detractions such as yourself would be open about why you have come to those conclusions.
your questions arent being belittled. only your false and unbased judgements that youve spewed everywhere. the civility is lacking on your end with your repeated, off-topic remarks. i have seen fit to highlight the enormity of your erroneous conclusions because you have been so shifty, slippery, and in such denial that i had to highlight that in the absense of you giving any reckoning. i apologize if it sounds abrasive; it is meant only as a landmark where you have continued to criticise me instead of acknowledging that your incorrect stances have been corrected by what ive posted
you cant make it through reading a few studies (which youve criticized before reading) and yet you claim to be a curious consumer. please.
you mean to say your false statements against the product have dissolved.
you repost this question again, even though ive already answered it. to correct you twice, the ad compares the bioactive content of pf3 to the 97% NUTRITIONAL CONTENT of whey (not the "97% ineffective content" that you have misquoted the ad in order just to suit your argument.) it does not say whey is useless, it says it has nutritional value instead of bioactive value. nutrition doesnt act on the body, the body acts on it; bioactives act on the body, hence they DO SOMETHING.
1) No poop issues for me either.
pete8407 has replaced his 40-60 gram daily intake of whey for pf3. i am paying attention to what hes doing, as its been over a week and he says he is less sore, no longer has any bloating, and he has not reported any kind of a loss. i will be checking in on him a few weeks to see how its going
haha, you know some women just produce more test than others.
Are you saying I should be taking whey protein with pf3 for better results?
Yes, I believe that is what he is getting at, in that PF3 will aid your current intake of whey.
thats a good question. i tend to want to supply my body with all the nutrition i can get out of the humility thats come from facing those heavy sets year after year. ive had people tell me taking aminos is useless unless youve been chronically starved, but i dont believe that; i went 10 years lifting without taking protein powder; while i made great gains, the benefits of protein powder were undeniable when i added it. so undeniable that i would be way too paranoid to just give it up instead of adding pf3 to it. bear in mind im taking about 60g of powder in on top of the 80-90 i get from food. if i check in with pete8407 in a few weeks and his strength is still up where it was on all the whey he was taking, i might be persuaded to change my ways.the idea of ditching the protein powder has appeal, since i blame it for some stomach bloating i get, which never happened in all the years i trained without it. my approach is always to bulk, because what i gain tends to be muscle, so i'm always very inclusive about adding more and more and not about restricting. pete8407 is thrilled at leaning out within days of getting off protein powder that was bloating him; i just want to see if his strength holds up over the next few weeks
Yes. PF3/Bio-Gro is not like Humapro at all. Humapro's concept was actually to replace protein regardless of protein source. Their theory was that if they provide you with the aminos of typical protein in the typical ratios, then you cut out all the binders, fat, carbs, etc. of protein and theoretically end up with just the aminos going straight into circulation. However, the problem with this is that typical protein does go through a process of digestion in the body and not only do you end up with the aminos but you also have the micro fractions (bio-actives) which in theory also have effects in the body. Peptide bonded aminos are far superior to free form amino acids when it comes to providing the body with the substrates of protein.
I wonder why alri doesn't fix their awful nomenclature and blatant spelling issues.
If I'm so wrong, answering my questions should be easy. Please have any MAN rep answer them.
Last time I checked, asking questions didn't require data or proof, just curiosity.
again, the ad says "nutritional value" when compared to "biological value," hence the nutritional value is acknowledged.again, youre making judgements, wrong ones and lots of them, in combatting attempts to answer your question instead of being just curiousIf I'm so wrong, answering my questions should be easy. Please have any MAN rep answer them.These questions, lest there be any confusion:Last time I checked, asking questions didn't require data or proof, just curiosity.
Still too soon for me to judge one way or the other. Before running PF3, I had not been using whey protein as often as I used to since I switched up my eating pattern and try to get as much protein as I can from whole food sources. This might aid in determining PF3's effectiveness.
That's why people ask questions - to correct their incorrect judgment. If I am incorrect, I don't want to be, so please correct me by answering my questions. That's the whole point of asking questions.
yes, there are some logs reporting great results right now:
you are a board sponsor for a competing company; unlike a naturally curious person, you created a bunch of false statements intentionally with no basis behind any of it. this thing happens to people alot online to every company except for those who only create conformist, bland product lines. you been seriously inconsistant throughout all of this. im not your doormat, so im not answering any of your questions
Wow.
How many scoops a day? I had to use 3 scoops a day for there to be notable recovery effects.
I doubt you'll see comp changes but the recovery should be very notable @ 3 scoops in my humble opinion.
That's very childish, and ridiculously unprofessional.
i didnt say his questions were bad. theres a history on this thread, and ive seen his dance before. his character in here speaks for itself. nobody is expected to assist anyone who acts the way he has. fyi, am is the only site like this i know of where what hes doing isnt banned
Wow.
AH, that should have read, "...try using 3 to see if that aids in leaning."
We appreciate you asking questions. We're doing our best to try answering them. Every answer is met with another question or doubt, which is then answered, and the tone seems to be increasingly confrontational to some degree on both sides.
as if you dont know. im referring to whats happened over the last seven pages or so. look, this guy turned is nose down at a 6 week, placebo controlled double-blind study, stating he doubted any significant benefit where the fda, hospitals, and practicing physicians did; thats not curiousity. from there he continued to post, not questions, but unfounded judgements agains pf3 and colostrum without providing any referance of any kind to suggest he was led to believe that instead of making it up as a competitor. despite having many of his questions addressed, he has consistantly made personal remarks against me., which i could list. now hes trying to play the victem. hes just making trouble
Hi Piston. Glad to see you.
I honestly don't - please be clear. Are you accusing me of something? If so what?
thats his game; deny deny deny
Wow. Ok. What am I denying, exactly?
Are you kidding?
I understand. So you (Piston Honda, not MAN) are saying that "gram for gram" PF3 is superior. That's definitely not made clear anywhere in the writeup or graphics. Well, yeah, I can give you that if the other protein in extruded soy beans. Other than that, I've seen no indication that's true for anabolism.
I'm pretty sure that Piston Honda was implying that gram for gram in bio-active peptides content, PF3 is superior. Protein macros on the other hand is a completely other kettle of fish
Ultimately, that's the issue I think most of the more keen observers have with the advert. The "superior in bio-active peptide content gram for gram" point is essentially hidden "small print" style within the gobbley-gook of the advert. They did not really lie about anything, they just didn't make things crystal clear in order to give the advert that whiz bang factor.
Pretty much this.I'm pretty sure that Piston Honda was implying that gram for gram in bio-active peptides content, PF3 is superior. Protein macros on the other hand is a completely other kettle of fish
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