psywzrd's m4ohn cycle

[psywzrd]

I don't want to harp on you here, but I'd really have to say that once you finish up this cycle, and complete your pct, that you really need to focus on proper nutrition and start learning what's right for your body. Embarking on this cycle was a pretty poor idea given your relative lack of knowledge of proper nutrition, and your lack of gains would seem to show that to be true. One of the truisms of gear usage is that you must apply a diet that will garner you gains naturally, live by that statement.

Good luck with the rest of your cycle, how long do you plan on extending things at this point?

No offense taken at all. I really thought my diet was in pretty good shape until I wrote everything down and realized how bad it was. It's amazing how much you can learn by reading and listening instead of just assuming that what you're doing is right.

I'm glad you guys were able to help me before I gave up on the cycle. Now that my nutrition is in check I'm probably going to push the cycle out to 8 weeks unless I don't see any gains at all by week 6. In that case, I'll stop after week 6 and start PCT. Otherwise I'll do the full 8 and follow up with my PCT. I'll continue to post progress (assuming there is some, of course ).

 

[CEDeoudes59]

there are good diets, and good bodybuilding diets. This should help you a lot!

 

[psywzrd]

On days I train, meal 4 will be my pre-workout meal so I am doing a whey protein shake with oats. For that same meal on days I don't train, I assume I'm better off doing a shake with protein and fat instead of protein and carbs. Is that accurate or should I just do straight protein?

 

[max silver]

I'd say you're first bet sounds good, just remember that at no point do you want to take in protein only while trying to gain mass.

Here's something else you can consider implementing, in-workout nutrition. One of the most crucial times to supply your body with nutrients is during intensive training. There are many options/routes that you can go about doing this. One such method is with bcaa's and/or essential amino acid mixtures during training. One really good bcaa product is Xtreme Formulations ICE. If these are too pricey for your budget, you can try sipping on a whey/dextrose mixture during your workout in between sets. For some people this can cause digestive issues, particularly during really tough sets, so if you try this go about it carefully to avoid tossing your protein shake during a squat set.

When bulking I like to take a bit of ICE before my workout, and combine ICE/dextrose during the workout, more or less finishing up the shake at the end of the workout. Once the workout is over I consume a whey/ground up oats shake afterwards. You get all the nutrients you could possibly need this way, with the dextrose/ice combo keeping you well fuelled, and the whey/oats fuelling you nicely after the workout is completed.

 

[psywzrd]

I'd say you're first bet sounds good, just remember that at no point do you want to take in protein only while trying to gain mass.

Here's something else you can consider implementing, in-workout nutrition. One of the most crucial times to supply your body with nutrients is during intensive training. There are many options/routes that you can go about doing this. One such method is with bcaa's and/or essential amino acid mixtures during training. One really good bcaa product is Xtreme Formulations ICE. If these are too pricey for your budget, you can try sipping on a whey/dextrose mixture during your workout in between sets. For some people this can cause digestive issues, particularly during really tough sets, so if you try this go about it carefully to avoid tossing your protein shake during a squat set.

When bulking I like to take a bit of ICE before my workout, and combine ICE/dextrose during the workout, more or less finishing up the shake at the end of the workout. Once the workout is over I consume a whey/ground up oats shake afterwards. You get all the nutrients you could possibly need this way, with the dextrose/ice combo keeping you well fuelled, and the whey/oats fuelling you nicely after the workout is completed.

max: You've been unbelievably helpful and patient throughout this and I really appreciate it. I'm slowly but surely implementing your recommendations and I already feel a difference (muscles just feel fuller although it's obviously way too soon to actually see any changes). You mentioned not to take protein only when trying to bulk. Does that also apply to a clean bulk? I'm just looking to put on 2-3 lbs of lean mass on this cycle with no increase in BF.

One other question I have is about the post-workout shake. I'm doing a whey/dextrose/maltodextrin combination and some people recommend sipping it after my workout instead of just chugging it down. I tried that after my leg workout yesterday and I had a hard time not chugging the damn thing because my body just felt like it needed it all at once. Do I need to sip it slowly over the course of an hour or so or can I just drink it at a normal pace? It's about 36 of protein, 40-50g carbs, 2.5g of Glutamine, 2.7g BCAA and 470mg Vitamin C among other things.

 

[LCSULLA]

How soon after working out are you taking your shake? I think the window is 45min or something along those lines. I used to take my PWO shake real fast, and I paid for it with horrible gas. If you can stand it then go ahead.

I also remeber DC mentioning that when a guy had trouble gaining weight he would do two things. First he would make sure the guy is taking in a ton of protein, and I mean a ton, something like 500grams. Second was the olive oil. He said you should be taking in a good amount, I can't recall how much though. Oh and the 500grams is something you should build up to.

 

[psywzrd]

I'm taking my PWO shake right after I workout - I bring it to the gym with me and start drinking it as soon as I'm done lifting.

Also, I'm not really looking bulk up at all. I've been bulky (at least for me ) in the past and I don't like the way I look bulked up. I really want to get shredded and I figured adding a couple pounds of lean muscle would help me burn off that last bit of fat. That's the reason why I decided to try m4ohn. I read a lot of good things about dry gains and muscle hardening and that's exactly what I want. If I can manage to lose some bodyfat in the process, that's even better.

 

[max silver]

What you could try doing is dividing your post workout shake into two portions, start sipping one partway through your workout, and drink the other portion once you finish your workout. This will help to fuel your workout, and help to avoid the huge dextrose sugar high and resulting crash that can result afterwards if you chug it all at once.

And yeah, I'd still say that even when lean bulking, avoid ingesting protein only meals. You want your protein intake to go towards muscle repair/rebuilding, rather than being a rather expensive glucose source, which is what will happpen if you take whey by itself.

 

[psywzrd]

Thanks again max.

I was doing some thinking and I might decide to cut my cycle down a bit (maybe to 6 weeks followed by PCT). After PCT I want to go on a cutting diet. How should I go about altering the diet you laid out for me so it's geared more towards cutting? I'll probably run some clen or ECA with it (unless I decide to get real adventurous and give Tri-Max a whirl but I doubt that will happen).

 

[max silver]

Don't be in too big a hurry after pct to cut, I've made that mistake myself even though I knew better each time doing so, and as a result have lost alot of the gains I've made on cycle. I've never had any problems with good diet, nice on cycle gains, and proper pct, but have hurried things too much into cutting phases, only to lose alot of what I've gained during the cycles. I find I like to keep calories above maintenance until I start to see the scale or strength values creeping up again, to be certain that I'm fully recovered from my cycle.

As far as the diet goes, I gave you a very easy, basic diet to follow for your cycle to hopefully make some nice gains. I personally like to implement a carb cycling diet as laid out by Twin Peaks from Avant Labs. It involves cycling your carbohydrates on a 3 day cycle, of high, low and no carbohydrate days. You can read up on the online magazine at Avant Labs for this diet, and read the articles as laid out. I find it very easy to follow, due to it's cyclic nature.

 

[psywzrd]

Just a few observations since I upped my calories according to the advice in this thread. One thing I noticed is that I'm having a really hard time getting all this food down. I guess that's to be expected since it's a pretty drastic change from what I had been eating, but it hasn't been easy for me to take in all these extra calories. I don't appear to be adding any bodyfat though so that's a good thing (I haven't actually weighed myself yet but I'll probably do that sometime this week).

The other thing I'm noticing is that I'm shitting like a bear several times a day. I'm thinking all the oats are responsible but I'm sure just the extra calories in general are a factor as well. I'm hoping that my body will adjust soon because it's a pain in the ass (no pun intended ) having to go to the bathroom so much.

I'm still undecided as to how long I'm going to run this cycle. I'm going to switch from HM Gear's Oxanavar over to Sledge's m4ohn as soon as my tabs come, so I'd like to give it at least a couple weeks from that point. At this point it's been 4 weeks so assuming my tabs come this week, I'm going to have to push my cycle out to at least 7 weeks. Do you guys see any problem with me running 8 weeks total followed by 4 weeks PCT (Nolva at 40/30/20/20 for the 4 weeks)?

 

[good_guye28]

psywzrd.......

what is your dosage at right now with the m4ohn? i just got mine in today and want to start i was thinking of starting off with 8mg 2times per day....

 

[psywzrd]

psywzrd.......

what is your dosage at right now with the m4ohn? i just got mine in today and want to start i was thinking of starting off with 8mg 2times per day....

That sounds about right. I've been taking 10mg of HMGear's Oxanavar twice a day but since I just got my tabs from Sledge, I'm going to do 12mg in the morning and 8mg at night since Sledge's tabs are 4mg/tab vs. 5mg for the Oxanavar. I'm taking about double the recommended dosage for my weight (~160) but I started taking it when there was still some question about the proper dosage (I'm still not sure that the proper dose has been determined) and I don't want to decrease the dosage since I'm not noticing any sides yet.

What's interesting to me is that when I started my cycle about 4 weeks ago, I was taking Sledge's liquid and I gained 2-4 pounds in about 9 days. Once I got my HMGear capsules I started taking them instead and my gains stopped or even disappeared altogether (if you read this entire thread you'll see that my diet was crap but it's still curious). Now that my diet is in order and I'm taking Sledge's product, I'm really expecting some noticeable gains.

 

[-2z-]

Keep us updated man. I have several bottles of this stuff on the way.

 

[lancelot]

Now that my diet is in order and I'm taking Sledge's product, I'm really expecting some noticeable gains.

don't expect M4OHN as a standalone to be a good bulker. most only gain about 2-4 pounds when trying to bulk with it alone. it's mainly for cutting, hardening and strength increases.

 

[good_guye28]

well i started my m4ohn im taking 8mg 2times per day, i am also starting the m5aa at 30mg before workout at noon.

i started a beverly international diet this week so im pretty excited to see how everything is going to pan out. im eating about 2200 cal. per day. i go back to see them july 31st to have bf checked again.... im 15.5% right now.. that is the most i have ever been what a bummer..

they told me initialy i would drop some weight pretty fast and let me tell ya its happening i lost almost 5 lbs in a week... i think it will probably slow down now..

 

[psywzrd]

Sorry I haven't been udpating much lately but there's really not much new to report. I haven't gained an ounce so far but I would say my vascularity has definitely increased. I'm coming up on 6 weeks now so I think I'm going to run it for 8 and follow up with some PCT. I'll post any changes as they happen but so far it's status quo.

 

[psywzrd]

Update:

Weighed in around 158-159 this morning so I'm up something like 2-4 lbs since I started. I know not to expect much weight gain with this stuff so I'm pleasantly surprised with a modest increase in weight. The last week or so I've definitely noticed that my muscles appear to be fuller and I'm just as cut (if not more cut) as I was when I started. I'm still at the point where I can just barely see my abs and I really want to get them to come out but I'm not sure that's going to happen on this cycle.

I may run some clen again after my PCT to see if I can lose that last bit of fat without sacrificing muscle. I know I'm going to have to tweak my diet when I decide to cut so I'll definitely be looking to you guys to help me out when the time comes.

 

[lancelot]

Update:

I'm up something like 2-4 lbs since I started. I know not to expect much weight gain with this stuff so I'm pleasantly surprised with a modest increase in weight. The last week or so I've definitely noticed that my muscles appear to be fuller and I'm just as cut (if not more cut) as I was when I started. .

exactly my results on M4OHN.

 

[psywzrd]

Well I decided to end my cycle yesterday at 7 weeks (I may be going away in about a month and I wanted to make sure I was done with my 4-week PCT before I leave). Overall, I would say the m4ohn experience was positive - little to no weight gain, slight increase in strength, noticeable increase in vascularity and some noticeable (though not drastic) hardening of the muscles. In my opinion, this is not a compound that will produce dramatic gains by itself. I would imagine it would work well in a stack but I've always been a firm believer in trying stuff on its own so you know exactly what the compound does for you.

I'm a little disappointed because I've been pretty sick for the last 2 or 3 weeks and I really think that may have reduced my gains quite a bit. My appetite just wasn't there and my workouts suffered as a result, so I think I probably could have gained a couple pounds if I was able to eat enough food. Depending on how my PCT goes I'll probably give this stuff another whirl since I have a few bottles left with more on the way.