Prolactin Levels - Arginine?

[djblurr]

Hi,

I recently learnt that I have above range prolactin levels. I think the range is around 0-400~. A few months ago I had a reading of around 900 which raised alarms for my GP who sent me to have an MRI scan done. The MRI report suggested that it was possible I had a prolactinoma (benign tumor of the pituitary gland) but since seeing a specialist he does not think I have one. I have had two follow up blood tests which were much lower, but still around 500~. He does not think I need to worry any more about it even if it is a little over the typical range, but after doing some more research I've found plenty of studies that suggest Arginine raises prolactin.

I've regularly used pre-workout NO products over the last 4-5 years but more so, I take regular protein shakes which seem to also include arginine. Optimum Nutrition gold standard whey has 480mg arginine per serve.

I'm not experiencing any sides such as lactating or libido loss at all, however I'm wondering if higher levels of prolactin can make me feel fatigued, etc? Has anyone got any studies/blood test that have shown prolactin to raise as much as it has in my case from arginine?

I don't want to go taking anything crazy to drop it (I'm not sure if I will have any positive effects by dropping it?) but would something like mucuna or another natural herb drop this to a lower level? Is there anything I could hope to gain out of dropping it?

Thanks for any input you have.

 

[Aleksandar37]

If there is even the slightest possibility that you have prolactinoma, then you need to get a second or third professional opinion. They are benign, but that doesn't mean they don't cause problems.

 

[djblurr]

The doctor that I saw was a neurologist. He was almost laughing at me for worrying that I had a prolactinoma. He said generally the levels need to be in the several thousands for this to be something to be concerned about. 900 was a bit high but can be due to stress, etc. Given that I've had two follow up tests with a reading at around 500, I am reasonably confident that his diagnosis is correct.

I'm well aware of the issues that can lay from prolactinomas but given this Neurologist is very highly regarded over here and I trust he knows what he is talking about.

Back to my original post, I think my last testosterone blood reading was a bit low too, around 300. From what I've seen mucuna can boost test and reduce prolactin. Would there be any harm in my trying this product for a small period of time to see what effect it has on my body?

By the way, no i havent touched AS or PH before.

 

[mr.cooper69]

For non-clinical prolactin control, look into SNS Inhibit-P. If you do suffer from clinical hyperprolactinemia, I'd get on prescription medication.

 

[Sourdough]

No. Don't try inhibit p.

I like sns, a LOT. I've used their products since they first came out in about '05.

But any product with both an l-dopa extract AND p5p in it is just counter productive and will lead to side effects more so then positive effects.

I've been over all this in other boards with other products that just came out before this with an identical profile....

Bottom line is, choose one ingredient or the other... and maybe even both dosed at different times in the day(l-dopa at night p5p in the morning) not in the same supplement where peripheral conversion of l dopa to dopamine will occur in the gut and body before passing through the bbb(blood brain barrier) creating dopaminergic side effects.

Even taking p5p is really only necessary if there is a natural deficiency or when l-dopa is used a lot for a long time(which can deplete p5p levels which is needed for other important chemical conversions in the brain). Otherwise l dopa is all that's needed to boost dopamine levels substantially and reap the t boosting, p inhibiting effects as well as a healthy boost in gh if dosed on an empty stomach(no carbs for 2 hours prior) right before bed.

I wish these supp developers would think a lil more thoroughly then this sometimes, more isn't always better when creating a new product.

Btw, 1-carboxy is the best and most ideal dopamine product out there considering the included decarboxylase inhibitors and high concentrations of l-dopa. At nutraplanet.com it can be found in bulk powder form and capped for much cheaper then many other products, I'd look into that before any other labeled products.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Have you looked at the dose of l-dopa in the product? It is not the primary modality (Vitex is the major player here, which has clinical use in controlling prolactin at the suggested dose). L-dopa and p5p are in the product to ensure that the user is not deficient in major substrates for dopamine synthesis, as deficiency in dopamine can cause dysregulation of prolactin. Side effects from peripheral decarboxylation at the dose of l-dopa used should be non-existent, and no, you will not get full-on dopamine synthesis outside of the CNS with both substrates being totally consumed. There is a study on this dosing pattern, and it is merely a percentage that undergoes peripheral decarboxylation (again, a non-issue at this dose of l-dopa, especially with Vitex being present in the formula).

Also, the testboosting/GH boosting effects of mucuna are not isolated to l-dopa by any means. In fact, l-dopa vs mucuna studies show pretty different results in terms of hormones in subjects. Hence the 50% and not 99% extract, as other useful constituents are present.

 

[PrepNwa23]

Have you looked at the dose of l-dopa in the product? It is not the primary modality (Vitex is the major player here, which has clinical use in controlling prolactin at the suggested dose). L-dopa and p5p are in the product to ensure that the user is not deficient in major substrates for dopamine synthesis, as deficiency in dopamine can cause dysregulation of prolactin. Side effects from peripheral decarboxylation at the dose of l-dopa used should be non-existent, and no, you will not get full-on dopamine synthesis outside of the CNS with both substrates being totally consumed. There is a study on this dosing pattern, and it is merely a percentage that undergoes peripheral decarboxylation (again, a non-issue at this dose of l-dopa, especially with Vitex being present in the formula).

Also, the testboosting/GH boosting effects of mucuna are not isolated to l-dopa by any means. In fact, l-dopa vs mucuna studies show pretty different results in terms of hormones in subjects. Hence the 50% and not 99% extract, as other useful constituents are present.

The force is strong with this one.

 

[BPjohn123]

Subbed

 

[djblurr]

Hi...

back to my original post, can anyone add any input?

Thanks..

 

[p5sky]

BOOM!!









ROASTED!!!!

 

[Aleksandar37]

Hi...

back to my original post, can anyone add any input?

Thanks..

I'm still saying to get a second opinion from a physician. I would trust an MRI over a blood test any day of the week.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I'm still saying to get a second opinion from a physician. I would trust an MRI over a blood test any day of the week.

Great advice, I'd take it OP

 

[djblurr]

The mri didn't show anything mate..

 

[tallguy34]

Well, other than getting a 2nd and 3rd opinion there isnt much left to do.

On the other hand none of the research I have done on Arginine or L-arginine (I've done a lot of research on this supplement) has ever showed it to raise prolactin levels. Here is a review of a study done on it. Yes I know the date is old but oh well:

J Endocrinol Invest. 1993 Jul-Aug;16(7):521-5.
Low dose orally administered arginine is able to enhance both basal and growth hormone-releasing hormone-induced growth hormone secretion in normal short children.
Bellone J, Bartolotta E, Cardinale G, Arvat E, Cherubini V, Aimaretti G, Maccario M, Mucci M, Camanni F, Ghigo E.
Source

Dipartimento di Fisiopatologia Clinica, Università di Torino, Italy.
Abstract

Aim of this study was to verify whether arginine (ARG), which likely inhibits hypothalamic somatostatin release, has an enhancing effect on the GHRH-induced GH rise, even when administered orally at low dose. To this goal we studied the effects of 4 g orally administered ARG, either hydrochloride (ARG-H) or aspartate (ARG-A), on both basal and GHRH (1 microgram/Kg i.v.)-stimulated GH secretion in 31 children with familial short stature (11 males and 20 females, aged 5.5-13.8 yr, pubertal stage I-III, and compared the results with those of i.v. infusion of 0.5 g/kg ARG-H. Oral ARG-H (Group A, n = 11) induced a significant increase of basal GH levels (4.2 +/- 1.3 vs 1.0 +/- 0.4 micrograms/L, p < 0.02) and enhanced the GH response to GHRH (41.1 +/- 8.6 vs 25.3 +/- 6.7 micrograms/L, p < 0.02). Oral ARG-A (Group B, n = 10) induced a slight, but not statistically significant increase in serum GH levels (3.4 +/- 1.5 vs 1.0 +/- 0.3 micrograms/L) and enhanced the GHRH-induced GH rise (49.7 +/- 9.8 vs 26.1 +/- 8.4 micrograms/L, p < 0.05). Intravenous ARG-H (Group C, n = 10) stimulated basal GH levels (6.2 +/- 1.2 vs 1.2 +/- 0.3 micrograms/L, p < 0.005) and increased the GHRH-induced GH rise (46.7 +/- 5.0 vs 17.1 +/- 2.3 micrograms/L, p < 0.005). This response was similar to those after oral ARG-H or ARG-A plus GHRH. No variation was observed in PRL levels after oral ARG (either ARG-H or ARG-A) and/or GHRH.

However there is one thing about arginine, and its not L-arginine that does this which is the most common supplement form, but I have found some research that D-arginine and arginine aspartate could possibly increase prolactin levels in some people, everyone is different though.

I know the SNS rep suggested their Inhibit-P but I will give you another option as well. BPS EndoSurge does an awesome job helping with prolactin sides. I am on Tren right now and have had ZERO prolactin related issues.

 

[Aleksandar37]

The MRI report suggested that it was possible I had a prolactinoma (benign tumor of the pituitary gland) but since seeing a specialist he does not think I have one.

I was going off of what you said here. You don't necessarily need to get another MRI, but I would have them clarify what they saw that made them suspect anything. Something in the scan got them curious.

 

[djblurr]

something was slightly off-symmetrical. The MRI report wasn't written by a Neurologist. When the Neurologist read the report and looked at the scan, he said these things are rarely symmetrical. The person who wrote the MRI report mentioned the possibility of prolactinoma because the previous GP who referred me brought to them the attention of my high prolactin. They were just being thorough.

Either way, I'm really not on this board to discuss the possibilities of whether I have a prolactinoma or not.

My main questions were, could arginine be lifting my prolactin out of the normal bounds, should an average person expect mucuna to drop prolactin to a normal range and would a reduction in prolactin make me feel "better" in general?

 

[tallguy34]

Read my post above about arginine.

As for the l-dopa, yes, theoretically if your prolactin levels drop then you would feel better unless there is another underlying medical issue.

 

[Aleksandar37]

No. Don't try inhibit p.

I like sns, a LOT. I've used their products since they first came out in about '05.

But any product with both an l-dopa extract AND p5p in it is just counter productive and will lead to side effects more so then positive effects.

I understand that you have already spoken about this on other boards, but is this your personal opinion or do you have any journal articles to back up the concern? If you could please copy and paste the basics of your argument here it would be greatly appreciated.

I do not see how the two together is going to be too much and cause dopamine-related side effects. P5P is not exclusive to dopamine decarboxylation. Attacking a company's product without citing a single study to me seems a bit severe and although Cooper can handle himself, I am MORE than willing to debate this issue as well.

 

[jbryand101b]

Inhibit p makes me feel happy.

 

[Sourdough]

Mr Cooper, thanks for your input bro, it's appreciated, i know your posts n ur usually spot on.

I still think it's worthless to put l dopa into a prolactin inhibiting product also containing p5p or b6 in the form of macuna or otherwise in any amount. You may not be using enough to create side effects, but then again, if that's the case your not going to be using enough to get benefits either. Not to mention, while the full spectrum effects of macuna are great, they are not the point of this supplement in the first place and have no positive effect on prolactin. Only the l-dopa extract does.

I'm unsure of what benefit vitex plays here, especially in the manner your talking about it.... is it a decarboxylase inhibitor? A quick search pulled up nothing in regards to it negating the peripheral interactions of p5p and an l-dopa extract.

As for referencing what I've already said in the past (with citations) in regards to black lion research and their similar profiled product "prolactrone".... here's a link to my post (yes I use a different name over there )

http://www.prohormoneforum.com/supplements/55046-p5p-l-dopa-2.html#post933624

Might want to look through that whole thread and search some of my other posts i made going rounds with that guy on the subject, he was completely ignorant to the issue and then got belligerent when it was brought to his attention... at least sns is a stand up company with good reps that know something and when to take into higher up....

i still don't think taking these combo prolactin products are wise especially considering the insanely low cost for the individual ingredients and increased benefits that are attainable with properly spaced dosing...