POLL -- CARDIO ON EMPTY STOMACH IN MORNING

[400runner]

theres ups and downs to it. you can go without getting uncomfortable, but you can "bonk" and run out of all energy too that way. its all about what kind of cardio your doing. hard runs i personally would go empty stomach. (becuase your not going as far) long runs, more then 7-8 miles, i'd eat a Small energy bar. either way running is catabolic.

 

[Giantz11]

Hard runs on an empty stomach.....Hope you don't like your muscle, cause you can waive it goodbye. And you can avoid catabolism by doing Low-Intensity cardio.

 

[adzy]

i think it depends on how long you train, i read somewhere that if you eat your breakfast 3 hours after getting up it can affect the bodys abilty to burn fat efficiently

 

[eliteballa3]

From my expericne i noticed aerobics first thing in the mroning for fat loss not real hard on the body but ur burning fat and calories and not to much muscle pop in billy blanks in the morning and then go about your day with what you normaly eat for pre/post workout or whatever thats what ive found works best for me.

 

[QUICKRYDE]

Well, this is what works for me>>>

I take 10 BCAA, 4 HMB pills and 64 ounce of water about 20mins before I do cardio. I wait this long to make sure the supplements hit my system and to release my urine before I do my crunches, sit-ups, leg raises and side bends and than I hit the treadmill.

I do 30mins of up hill running {speed walking} on a moderate level and I hit the cross trainer for 10mins.

When I completed my routine...I take 10 BCAA, 4 HMB pills and a high protein and low carb meal replacement shake. My next meal is two hours from the last meal and I will consume a turkey sandwich, fruit and a whey protein shake.

I do this routine 3 times a week.

 

[gwilym]

i always have 40g of whey 30mins beforehand to prevent muscle loss. It worked a treat for me.

 

[davisville64]

now heres a question....

I am currently bulking. However, I am a "fat ass by nature" you might say. I was thinking of doing 2 AM cardio sessions per week on an empty stomach, with an MRP right after. What do you think?

 

[poopypants]

man i want to know how many of the guys who chose the first one are still over weight or really think that wieght they are losing is fat???? your body needs fuel regardless. maybe only a little food and something good to release the fat stores to use for the rest of energy but most everyone else is just gonna burn all the glycogen out their muscles and start to eat themselves away.

 

[QUICKRYDE]

Well, I do cardio on an empty stomach and I run 3 times a week/ 4 to 5 miles. I also jump rope for 15 to 20 mins after every run. I started this routine on 9/1/05 and this routine helps bring out more muscle definition in my body. I even can see the eight row of abs coming through and I weigh 229 pounds.

I find taking these supplements to be very helpful, before I do cardio>>>>I take 10 BCAA, 5 HMB pills and 64 ounce of water about 20mins before I do cardio. I wait this long to make sure the supplements hit my system and to release my urine before I do my crunches, sit-ups, leg raises and side bends and than I go running. When I completed my routine...I take 10 BCAA, 5 HMB pills, Pure Virtigo, and whey protein. My next meal is two hours from the last meal and I will consume a turkey sandwich, fruit and a whey protein shake.

This process might not work for everyone but it works for me.

man i want to know how many of the guys who chose the first one are still over weight or really think that wieght they are losing is fat???? your body needs fuel regardless. maybe only a little food and something good to release the fat stores to use for the rest of energy but most everyone else is just gonna burn all the glycogen out their muscles and start to eat themselves away.

 

[oldskoolbb]

Cardio bike or walk medium intensity 20 minutes max. on empty stomach. works great..If you reach a point where it is not working anymore try a teaspoon or 2 of peanut butter first 30 min. before cardio. Rich Gaspari use to train one of my friends. And thats what he had him do to lose that last little bit of fat before a contest. taking in a little fat tells the body it is ok to burn fat as energy rather than muscle. It works... but empty stomach is fine until you get down to the last stubborn fat.

 

[MrSkullCrusher]

Cardio on empty stomach works for me!
ECA stack on empty stomach then 30-40 min of cardio.
I like stepper or treadmill.Lately i have been doing treadmill
with the incline all the way up for almost the entire duration.
I won a contest at our local gym by doing cardio on empty
stomach then eating clean for the rest of the day with lower carbs
later in the afternoon.Eating 6 small meals through out the day.
Lifting for 1-1/2hrs then doing another 20 min of cardio later in the afternoon.
Worked great for me and i didnt lose much strength.Kept 35lbs off and
i am now even stronger than before.

 

[Jeff]

Cardio bike or walk medium intensity 20 minutes max. on empty stomach. works great..If you reach a point where it is not working anymore try a teaspoon or 2 of peanut butter first 30 min. before cardio. Rich Gaspari use to train one of my friends. And thats what he had him do to lose that last little bit of fat before a contest. taking in a little fat tells the body it is ok to burn fat as energy rather than muscle. It works... but empty stomach is fine until you get down to the last stubborn fat.

bump that, a tablespoon of flax is pretty good too (not for the taste).

 

[asap nutrition]

Absolutely the best way to lose weight.

 

[Grunt76]

When I had a rowing machine at home I used it first thing in the morning for 30-40 minutes 4-5 times a week. That got me ripped quick and didn't seem to hinder gains at all.

 

[-2z-]

Man a good rowing machine would be cool to have. FULL body cardio that is. Anyone seen a good one of these for sale anywhere ?

Oh...and low intensity cardio AM works great for me. I don't seem to lose any measurable lbm from it even at 45min.

 

[Lean One]

Oh...and low intensity cardio AM works great for me. I don't seem to lose any measurable lbm from it even at 45min.

Me either. Actually, when cutting, I do 55min.

 

[B5150]

Most pro's do not use 2-a-day workouts, they use 2-a-day cardio sessions in the form of low intensity. I see them everyday. Most do a walking session first thing in the morning (usually 45-60 minutes) then take a nap, then they do another 30 minute session after weight traning. Now ALL pro's don't do it this way but the majority follow a schedule similar to that incorpating very low intensity multiple times per week.

Not a pro myself but an inquiry on the concept and it's relation to nutrient timing; empty stomach (upon rising) walking cardio is followed by what sort of nutrient macro when dieting? If I have not depleted glycogen I assume then that I have no need to restore it.

Pre and post nutrition for second session of cardio after resistance training; I assume I take in my usual pre workout nutrition. Then assuming I have depleted glycogen I get into the cardio with FFA as a primary fuel. I am assuming I should then replete my glycogen as I normally would from the previous resistance training.

I am asking because I have a whole new diet/routine schedule that I am trying to transition to and may incorporate this concept when I diet. I'm stepping out of my comfort zone to move to afternoon training and am becoming anxious about keeping my diet in order.

 

[B5150]

Hey, I know I quoted Bobo, but I am open to discussion. I am probably very capable, and likely already have a solid idea and knowledge of how to work this for myself. I just wanted to discuss.

Talk amongst yourselves :study:

 

[jonny21]

I would not think that you would have depleted glycogen stores from your resistance training. I also believe the the ratio of FFA:CHO used for energy depends on the intensity. From what I remember, High intensity exercise produces more lactic acid which then hinders the ability of the body to use fatty acids as an energy source. So you are better off with low/moderate intensity <60% of aerobic capacity if you are looking to burn more FFA for energy.

You have plenty of time to replenish glycogen stores. As Bobo has pointed out on numerous occasions, muscle tissue synthesis is the primary concern for those looking to get hyoooge, so availabilty of amino acids is paramount.

 

[B5150]

I would not think that you would have depleted glycogen stores from your resistance training.

i guess depleted was an extreme word to use in this case. I mean that I need to feed my muscle glycogen and aminos after the resistance training

I also believe the the ratio of FFA:CHO used for energy depends on the intensity. From what I remember, High intensity exercise produces more lactic acid which then hinders the ability of the body to use fatty acids as an energy source. So you are better off with low/moderate intensity <60% of aerobic capacity if you are looking to burn more FFA for energy.

my cardio would be just that; low intensity at the most and likely on a treadmill or stationary bike.

You have plenty of time to replenish glycogen stores. As Bobo has pointed out on numerous occasions, muscle tissue synthesis is the primary concern for those looking to get hyoooge, so availabilty of amino acids is paramount.

so my more than adequate protein consumption in my diet should suffice. I would then likely follow my resistance and cardio with my normal post workout shake.

What are your thoughts on post empty stomach AM cardio. I am thinking that I would consume a high protein low/mod carb/fat solid food breakfast meal (egg whites/FiberOne/skim).

I am so used to going liquid at 3:30am pre/post and not having a solid meal until I am at work. Starting the day with solid food....:food:

 

[jonny21]

What are your thoughts on post empty stomach AM cardio. I am thinking that I would consume a high protein low/mod carb/fat solid food breakfast meal (egg whites/FiberOne/skim).

I am so used to going liquid at 3:30am pre/post and not having a solid meal until I am at work. Starting the day with solid food....:food:

I like what you are planning.

Something that has been working well for me lately has been the addition of BCAA's (XTEND) to my pre-, during, post-workout nutrition. I am a total cynic so the whole placebo thing is usually lost on me because I assume things won't work, but I have noticed a difference in recovery time when I include them.

 

[MadMas]

I think its not a good idea!....

I always use a protein shake 20-30 min before I do morningcardio that to prevent muscle catabolism..

That is dead on. No carbs tho. Buuuuurn fat burn!

 

[Fastflight]

Why not spare blood aminos acid-pool and burn even more fat, by adding some carbs, by generating more energy at the sama pulse?

 

[jmh80]

Mas - those aminos will be converted to glucose if taking for pre-breakfast cardio.

Better to just eat carbs if you want to eat anything.

Read Bobo's posts on pages 1 through 3.

 

[1ad man]

best way to burn calories in the morning your low in carbs and high in energy burn the fat easily . i have a friend that get up at 6am and puts a garbage bag on his body and runs tell he sweats and he has lost 15pds than again he is fitness freak.

 

[delta314]

I drink a glass of NO Explode at 4:30am and do my cardio at 5:00. I usually do an hour on the eliptical, and can lose 2-4 lbs a week if I do cardio Mon - Fri.

 

[ssor1005]

I've only been working out and eating clean the past 4 months, and my results have been pretty good...

I'm 17 and 6'4 172 lbs with >9% body fat. I've gained over 12lbs of muscle and lost a few fat lbs not sure the net in the past 4 months. Recently I have started doing 45 minutes of high inclined walking where I burn 500+cals before training sessions. If i do that 5-6 times a week is that too much?...and what are the ideal types of carbs I should eat in the afternoon before cardio say around 5-6pm to prevent a catabolic effect? Thanks in advance

 

[Socrates44]

Doing cardio in the morning is an excellent idea, only if you are cutting. If you take a protein shake before you run, two things might happen.
1. you might not feel like running, because you have 60 grams of protein in your pouch.
2. The next is the worst thing that any body builder wants, and that is the conversion of protein to sugar.

The reason your body will do that is because the peptidases in your stomach will recognize the protein in your stomach as a possible sources for energy. We all know the body needs energy so if you didnt have that "possible" meal in your stomach, your body will more than likely pull from another source-fat. Fat gives off around 9 calories per gram. So by forcing your body to use its stored energy you will shred body fat.

After your cardio dont eat right away, because although you are done doing your cardio, your body is still in lipolysis (the breakdown of fats and fatty acids). Wait for 30 minutes, then slam your protein shake.

 

[Elizzard]

Doing cardio in the morning is an excellent idea, only if you are cutting. If you take a protein shake before you run, two things might happen.
1. you might not feel like running, because you have 60 grams of protein in your pouch.
2. The next is the worst thing that any body builder wants, and that is the conversion of protein to sugar.

The reason your body will do that is because the peptidases in your stomach will recognize the protein in your stomach as a possible sources for energy. We all know the body needs energy so if you didnt have that "possible" meal in your stomach, your body will more than likely pull from another source-fat. Fat gives off around 9 calories per gram. So by forcing your body to use its stored energy you will shred body fat.

After your cardio dont eat right away, because although you are done doing your cardio, your body is still in lipolysis (the breakdown of fats and fatty acids). Wait for 30 minutes, then slam your protein shake.

Excellent explanation!

 

[Makodhardie]

I've just started playing around with this. I've always felt completely miserable trying to do worthwhile amounts of morning cardio on an empty stomach. Until recently, I had been taking a regular size protein shake- 24grams/8oz and doing around a half hour of high intensity, followed by a another shake and a real meal to start the day off. I've stepped it up a lot recently to see some real results, so I'm ECA'ing my cardio workouts and that brings in another problem- can't have strong stimulants on an empty stomach. I tried a mix this morning that really worked for me:

-8oz protein shake
-handful of low fat saltines
-ECA stack
-about 15-20 oz of water preworkout

Workout:
-30 min bike, high intensity (423 cal)
-30 min elliptical, high intensity (535 cal)
*about 35-40oz water during workout

I was worried that the protein shake alone wouldn't be thick enough to keep the stimulants from making me naucious so I decided to try the crackers to get some solid in there. Worked great. On another note, I had an evening cardio session same as this one but different preworkout meal and I was looking at girls on machines next to me as food instead of eye candy and intensity motivation. I came home and tried to eat as slow as I could so I'd fill up at a reasonable rate and not destroy all the work I'd just done in the gym. The sustinence in the preworkout meal did enough to keep me from draining out real fast before I was close to being done. I felt like I could have gone another 30 minute interval if I wanted but I'm afraid that my overall appetite will start to ramp up and be hard to control if I do too much on a daily basis. Diet and exercise are what makes the results so I don't want to destroy one trying to conquer the other with too much glory.

 

[canadian champ]

I felt like I could have gone another 30 minute interval if I wanted but I'm afraid that my overall appetite will start to ramp up and be hard to control if I do too much on a daily basis..

This is a myth. your appetite may increase slightly but nowhere near enough to counteract the calorie loss providing by exercising.
cc

 

[Makodhardie]

Yes, you're probably right on that... I'm going off my experiences from college swimming. I was never able to lose much weight last year during the season even after going to doubles and meet season that had us in the water for intensive exercise 6 days a week. I didn't think my diet was that outrageous, but then again, I have a heat maintenance problem and my VO2 max is a lot higher than any other males on the team. At 2 hours a piece, I'm sure we burned plenty of calories per workout, however with the shitty standards of the indoor pool (low oxygen availability and high heat- 91 degrees F air temp and around 80 some water temp), I may very well have been suffocating during sets rather than maintaining a healthy aerobic respiratory condition which would deffinitely have affects on fat loss efficiency. Since I've retired, I never get in the pool anymore and all my cardio is done on machines where I can monitor my heart rate to keep my exercise from crossing the anaerobic threshold.

As far as the empty stomach experimentation, I've been able to get it down to no food in the morning on ECA. I've been keeping a water bottle in bed with me that I try take drinks from during the night when I wake up to roll over or get up early in the morning to piss. Once I'm up for the day/workout, I'll drink as much as I comfortably can and then brew a cup of green tea that I've started relying on for my caffeine doseage (much less than most ECA stacks- about 30/200mgs). If I'm really dead before a workout, I take a Sobe Adrenaline... I love the things and I know they have enough stimulant in them between the caffeine and guarana. They have a few calories but they also make a sugar free version that's not bad... I think all the energy drink companies are doing this. Red Bull has one for sure. In addition to the ECA and plenty of water, I take a dose of B vitamins- B6 and 12. On days when I don't have time to get up early and split cardio and lifting to do doubles, I take my fish oils with my preworkout meal.

On increasing daily cardio above 1 full hour, I haven't tried it yet, but perhaps when I get to an off day for lifting this weekend I'll run it out if I'm feeling good... Just as long as I don't have any extra school work to do- I'll fall asleep doing it otherwise.

 

[Brent]

May I suggest taking Scivation's Neurostim +C 30min before your morning cardio?

Would the ALCAR and Choline help the body use fat for energy?

 

[Makodhardie]

I was looking into other supplements since companies have started putting new products out with ephedra in them. I'll probably try something that has the correct EC dosages in it plus all the extra bells and whistles for fat burning- chocamine, yohimbe, sour orange, elf juice, etc. My previous fat burning supplement stack was:

-SAN Tight- stimulant based
-SAN Blaze- non-stimulant
-SesaMax- Sesamin and Flax see oils

I'm out of everything now but a few pills of Tight and I had only planned to cut for another week before I start bulking again. I'll have to shop around for some of these new things that are out but for right now, I'm waiting for my bulking stuff to come in.

I tried something different again yesterday since Sundays are playdays with cardio only for me. I got up and had a decent breakfast- protein shake, cup of yogurt, and a couple other things with moderate carbs but I couldn't remember what. Then I took my usual dosage for preworkout that I do on morning cardio only splits. My heart rate has come down considerably in the last week while working the same intensities on various machines- about 10-20 bpm average depending on the machines. I did vertical bike for 30 minutes, elliptical for 15 and stair stepper for 15 with very high intensity. I had trouble drinking as much as I sweat and with the last two, I ramped intensity and rpm much higher than normal.... which is why I did the 15 minute intervals. After all that, I did 20 minutes moderate intensity cool down on the horizontal bike. I felt like I was getting out of a dryland session at swim camp all over again and I kept my appetite under control until around 9-10pm.... then I was in trouble with the kitchen. I'm sure that the overall intake for the day wasn't 1000 calories in surplus so I should have been fine, but it wasn't what I was shooting for. I might try doing the same high volume session tomorrow with more moderate intensity instead of high and see what that does for my appetite.

Brent, I'll look into the Scivation Neurostim. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[pecs=sexs]

i agree, low intensity in the AM is good, i did a highly intense cardio session in the morning a few times, and i get the feel like i'm taking a double-dose of ephedra. personally, i'm not a huge fan of the jitters and feeling your heart pump through your back.

i agree 100%. i hate that feeling so no matter what i get some food in me before i work out. mostly protein. but personally i hate anything in the AM. I normally dont wake up until 10 or 11 am. but im still in collage so its easy to do that.:rofl:

 

[personalbest]

I do not think it is good at all. Since you have not eaten at all, you are using energy from your muscles rather than fat...

 

[MasterMind]

:head:

 

[bbgunz]

Cardio in the AM on an empty stomach has always worked for me during my cut phase. Of course, everybody is different. I always make sure I take a hefty dose of BCAA's (xtend) beforehand.

 

[raudyboy3]

:jaw: soo....it just depends i guess on what you feel like doing mostly. some say yes and some say no. hmmm??

 

[scott72]

:jaw: soo....it just depends i guess on what you feel like doing mostly. some say yes and some say no. hmmm??

You just have to try and see what works for you. For me, it works at a high body fat %, but I've been around 12% for months now and it doesnt help at all. I need the high intensity cardio to go sub 12% whereas a very high bf % would be very beneficial with low intensity morning cardio.

 

[Operator]

When I was powerlifting, I had to maintain a low body weight with very low BF%, around 5%. This was so I could compete in the 181 class, the only one I could win at (I'm 5'8"). Did low intensity cardio every morning, mostly walking, after drinking a cup of black coffee. You could use some other stim. Avoided high intensity cardio for the most part, usually just once a week to maintain fitness, after eating some carbs. This went on for years with no problems. I wasn't big though, training weight was around 185 - 190, just strong for my weight.

 

[scott72]

When I was powerlifting, I had to maintain a low body weight with very low BF%, around 5%. This was so I could compete in the 181 class, the only one I could win at (I'm 5'8"). Did low intensity cardio every morning, mostly walking, after drinking a cup of black coffee. You could use some other stim. Avoided high intensity cardio for the most part, usually just once a week to maintain fitness, after eating some carbs. This went on for years with no problems. I wasn't big though, training weight was around 185 - 190, just strong for my weight.

I'm assuming your diet was absolutely perfect which reduced the need for high intensity.

 

[Kaliman91]

You just have to try and see what works for you. For me, it works at a high body fat %, but I've been around 12% for months now and it doesnt help at all. I need the high intensity cardio to go sub 12% whereas a very high bf % would be very beneficial with low intensity morning cardio.

You still cutting Scotty?
I am really sick and tired of cutting.I have been at it since Mid Oct and still working at it now. Sitting on 214-215 right now.And about 17.5-17.6 bf.Guess that serves me right. I shouldnt have ever let myself get into the 280's.:jaw:

 

[Operator]

I'm assuming your diet was absolutely perfect which reduced the need for high intensity.

Yes, very strict on my diet with protein/fruit shakes, chicken breasts and vegetables, and so on. Always made sure I had plenty of good fats in my diet though, just no junk foods. That did get old after awhile, which is probably why I'm no longer doing it.

 

[Hbs6]

No its not. Low cardio shows a preference for using FFA's for fuel rather than glucose. High intensity exercise OTOH is heavily dependent on glucose.

There are NEVER times you want to use dietary aminos. That means your body has shifted to a point where gluconeogenesis is increased and you do NOT want that.

BOBO- are you saying that things like glutamine and amino acid supplements are pretty much useless and not worth the money, or are there times where you find them beneficial? I have read a lot and I have read several times that the "best time" to use aminos is right before cardio and obviously it is useless to take them at this time. Is there any time they are worth it? Thx.

 

[scott72]

You still cutting Scotty?
I am really sick and tired of cutting.I have been at it since Mid Oct and still working at it now. Sitting on 214-215 right now.And about 17.5-17.6 bf.Guess that serves me right. I shouldnt have ever let myself get into the 280's.:jaw:

Hey Kali, whats up bro. I took an 8 week break from cutting and hung around maintenance. I got tired of it too and wasn't getting anywhere anyway. I just kicked it back into gear today for my push to 9-10% for this summer. Right now I'm around 12.2%.

Thats great to hear your that low. I hear ya, it seems like a prison sentence after awhile when your cutting for months and months. I guess it motivates ya to not let yourself get that big again.

You ready for baseball? I think my Brewers are really gonna push your cards this year for the division. ESPN has them as the sleeper team of the year. Pitching is deep as hell as long as Sheetsie stays healthy. I miss talking baseball with you guys at the "other" site.

 

[scott72]

Yes, very strict on my diet with protein/fruit shakes, chicken breasts and vegetables, and so on. Always made sure I had plenty of good fats in my diet though, just no junk foods. That did get old after awhile, which is probably why I'm no longer doing it.

I hear ya. Gotta take a break from it everynow and then. I did that, now I'm ready to charge back into it. Beach weather is fast approaching!

 

[Socrates44]

It takes the stomach around 2-4 hours to breakdown solid food into something called chyme. The stomach does little to no absorption of your nutrients. Its job is to hold the fuel and break it down into a usable source. Chyme is the mixture that goes into the duodenum (1st part of the small intestine), this is where the magic begins. However, if you drink a shake or a liquid MRP before morning cardio this might slow down your bodies ability to use its stored adipose tissue for its main fuel source.

Verdict- If you wanna eat before cardio make it a good one. Some eggs, oats and a lean breakfast meat. If you wanna wait, that is good too, but if you wait your meal should be a mixture of solid and liquid macros. I would reccomend a 50 gram protein shake with Flax and a cup of oats. This gives you the satiety from the solid food and the resorption of protein and good carbs your body craves after a workout.

 

[Hbs6]

A lot of this stuff has already been adressed by BOBO starting on like page 2 of this thread, and it seems to make a lot of sense with regards what to eat before cardio and what to eat depending on the type of cardio done whether its carbs or nothing at all.

 

[The Godfather]

A nice research backed article I thought I would throw in here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=747976