Please help me clarify guys...

[TheBreeze]

So I havent been on here in a while but I finally have web access again so Im asking more ?s.

My main questions are
1. What exactly do I need a SERM for and what are some good ones out there.

2. Is pure Nolva (not Nolvadex XT) a SERM?

3. Finally for now, what kind of price range should I be expecting for good PCT. I am hoping to run a solo cycle of CEL H-Drol for 5-6 wks once I get this whole PCT stuff understood. Not to mention this will be my first PH cycle.

All Ive used b4 is 17-HD(2x) and the AX tripple stack. Both had good results. And yes i know neither of these are PHs.


(oh yeah, if anyone has ever ran a cycle like this please let me know what your PCT was and how you felt during and after you were on and amount of gains retained.)

Thanks for any and all input and suggestions.

 

[partyman43]

So I havent been on here in a while but I finally have web access again so Im asking more ?s.

My main questions are
1. What exactly do I need a SERM for and what are some good ones out there.

2. Is pure Nolva (not Nolvadex XT) a SERM?

3. Finally for now, what kind of price range should I be expecting for good PCT. I am hoping to run a solo cycle of CEL H-Drol for 5-6 wks once I get this whole PCT stuff understood. Not to mention this will be my first PH cycle.

All Ive used b4 is 17-HD(2x) and the AX tripple stack. Both had good results. And yes i know neither of these are PHs.


(oh yeah, if anyone has ever ran a cycle like this please let me know what your PCT was and how you felt during and after you were on and amount of gains retained.)

Thanks for any and all input and suggestions.

Hey Bro....you got an awful lot of questions here...I would start by doing some basic searching...There are numerous threads on H-drol as well as good PCTs info for it. Hdrol is a good low side/descent gains compound.

Check out the thread "OTC PCT GUIDE" if you are going that route.

Do a little research...answer some of your own basic questions...and then hit us up for some answers. Trust me...the more time and effort you put into research...the better your cycle will go.
And remember that everyone reacts differently to supps/compounds


Good Luck:clap2:

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

2 bottles of h-drol for a 5 to 6 week cycle approx $50

2 tubs Cycle Support(2 week preload and 6 weeks on cycle) approx$80

Nolva research chem for you lab rat approx $50

1 Bottle of Post Cycle Support approx $40

Total cycle approx $220

 

[crazyfool405]

thats reall expensive, lol i get everything i need seperatly lol and it last me like 3 cycles

 

[TheBreeze]

Thanks guys. I will check out the OTC thread now.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Thanks guys. I will check out the OTC thread now.

It is a great read bro.

 

[ndnguy85]

2 bottles of h-drol for a 5 to 6 week cycle approx $50

2 tubs Cycle Support(2 week preload and 6 weeks on cycle) approx$80

Nolva research chem for you lab rat approx $50

1 Bottle of Post Cycle Support approx $40

Total cycle approx $220

so assuming your pct will include pcs weeks 1-4 in combination with that other prodcut..do you need 6-oxo? what about a test booster like activate?

i have an otc pct down...but i just need some clarification on route 2.

 

[crazyfool405]

so assuming your pct will include pcs weeks 1-4 in combination with that other prodcut..do you need 6-oxo? what about a test booster like activate?

i have an otc pct down...but i just need some clarification on route 2.

you probably dont NEED 6oxo, activate extreme can be used toward the end of the PCT when SHBG is higher, but no point in the beginning IMO. you can use a test booster like DTHC with PCS if youd like though.

 

[TonySmiles]

so assuming your pct will include pcs weeks 1-4 in combination with that other prodcut..do you need 6-oxo? what about a test booster like activate?

i have an otc pct down...but i just need some clarification on route 2.

www.otcpct.com this covers it all. A 4 week PCT or if you want to add more. The 4 week route is what I did for Hdrol and recovered just fine. But we are all different...

 

[lennoxchi]

2 bottles of h-drol for a 5 to 6 week cycle approx $50

2 tubs Cycle Support(2 week preload and 6 weeks on cycle) approx$80

Nolva research chem for you lab rat approx $50

1 Bottle of Post Cycle Support approx $40

Total cycle approx $220

having heightened test levels, resulting in lean gains, raging hard-ons, alpha male mentality and the sex drive of a 16 year old..........priceless. sorry could not resist

 

[dg806]

so assuming your pct will include pcs weeks 1-4 in combination with that other prodcut..do you need 6-oxo? what about a test booster like activate?

i have an otc pct down...but i just need some clarification on route 2.

IMO, you don't need 6-oxo or AE. Hdrol is mild and won't shut you down as bad as other steroids.

 

[ndnguy85]

this is what i have in mind for an OTC PCT..

i just wanted to see how it differs when you add that other stuff.

would 4 weeks be enough though? what about the scare about rebound gyno?

sorry for the questions..but i just seen conflicting stuff like people running 6-oxo along with the serm right in the beginning of pct.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

so assuming your pct will include pcs weeks 1-4 in combination with that other prodcut..do you need 6-oxo? what about a test booster like activate?

i have an otc pct down...but i just need some clarification on route 2.

If you are running a SERM and Post Cycle Support I do not see a need for the 6 oxo I may even start the Post Cycle Support in week 2 of pct through week 5 as it will help reduce estrogen. No need for another test booster as Post Cycle Support also boosts test but it would not hurt to also have AX in there with it. Good luck bro.

 

[ndnguy85]

ok cool.

well i have a bottle of activate sittin here and lean xtreme just came in today.

i should have just saved my stoked (got the stoked/activate stack) but i didnt think about what all products i would need for PCT if i ever did run a cycle until i was a week into using stoked..

can someone explain this part of neoborn's post for me. i dont know if its the wording..

2. Cycle Support
3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.
4. Anti-Cort
5. Test Booster

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT

what's he saying in #1 and 2?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

ok cool.

well i have a bottle of activate sittin here and lean xtreme just came in today.

i should have just saved my stoked (got the stoked/activate stack) but i didnt think about what all products i would need for PCT if i ever did run a cycle until i was a week into using stoked..

can someone explain this part of neoborn's post for me. i dont know if its the wording..



what's he saying in #1 and 2?

Post Cycle Support are the exact same so you can run the AX with it.

 

[ndnguy85]

Post Cycle Support are the exact same so you can run the AX with it.

you mean serm/pcs/activate together right?

i wonder if i can just do serm/activate. not that i have anything against stoked (PCS), just want to save some money where i can.

 

[crazyfool405]

you mean serm/pcs/activate together right?

i wonder if i can just do serm/activate. not that i have anything against stoked (PCS), just want to save some money where i can.

use the SERM and PCS, theres very little test to free up and theres very little SHBG that test is attached to , better to save it (aX) for a later date. or after the PCT or starting in week 3

 

[ndnguy85]

use the SERM and PCS, theres very little test to free up and theres very little SHBG that test is attached to, better to save it (aX) for a later date. or after the PCT or starting in week 3

ok makes sense.

do you follow bottle directions for PCS? or do you need to taper it down..i seen some logs do that..

 

[partyman43]

ok makes sense.

do you follow bottle directions for PCS? or do you need to taper it down..i seen some logs do that..

Follow bottle directions

 

[ndnguy85]

OTC PCT..

With SERM

is there any products thats not really needed in there? something i can cut and save some money on?

what about the dosing of Havoc. too much for a first time cycler?

 

[partyman43]

OTC PCT..

With SERM

is there any products thats not really needed in there? something i can cut and save some money on?

what about the dosing of Havoc. too much for a first time cycler?

If you are running a straight cycle then you should probably go with a serm PCT....I would honestly recommend running the Cycle support throughout PCT as well(at least 4 weeks).

I personally don't think you need to run the 6 -oxo for a serm PCT. Just CS,PCS and serm as well as Lean extreme(starting in week 3). Probably don't necessary need activate extreme either(because of money), but ulimately that and the 6-oxo can't hurt because they help with rebound avoiding rebound gyno and give an added test boost.

Thats a desicion you will have to make.

And no i don't think that your havoc dosages are too high(IMO)

 

[ndnguy85]

If you are running a straight cycle then you should probably go with a serm PCT....I would honestly recommend running the Cycle support throughout PCT as well(at least 4 weeks).

I personally don't think you need to run the 6 -oxo for a serm PCT. Just CS,PCS and serm as well as Lean extreme(starting in week 3). Probably don't necessary need activate extreme either(because of money), but ulimately that and the 6-oxo can't hurt because they help with rebound avoiding rebound gyno and give an added test boost.

Thats a desicion you will have to make.

And no i don't think that your havoc dosages are too high(IMO)

thanks a lot man. it's hard getting help when you are first learning things. everyone forgets they were once in this position also.

what happened to me was..i ordered activate to run solo for 4 weeks. then the stack went on sale with stoked/activate, so i bought that also. so i ran stoked along with my first activate, now i have the 2nd activate from the stack sitting here. what i should have done was saved the stoked also because that could have been used in pct instead of PCS (same thing as stoked).

one other question i have is how much calorie surplus over maintainence do most people do while on a cycle? i couldnt find any definite answers from searching. i just saw a bunch of "try to get 5K...eating as much as i can..etc" that doesnt quite fit with me because i gain wait insanely easy. in fact during bulking, i eat only 250 over (goal is to gain about 0.5lbs a week). i know thats too low for a cyle. so my guess is something like 1000 over? (2lbs a week)

 

[partyman43]

thanks a lot man. it's hard getting help when you are first learning things. everyone forgets they were once in this position also.

what happened to me was..i ordered activate to run solo for 4 weeks. then the stack went on sale with stoked/activate, so i bought that also. so i ran stoked along with my first activate, now i have the 2nd activate from the stack sitting here. what i should have done was saved the stoked also because that could have been used in pct instead of PCS (same thing as stoked).

one other question i have is how much calorie surplus over maintainence do most people do while on a cycle? i couldnt find any definite answers from searching. i just saw a bunch of "try to get 5K...eating as much as i can..etc" that doesnt quite fit with me because i gain wait insanely easy. in fact during bulking, i eat only 250 over (goal is to gain about 0.5lbs a week). i know thats too low for a cyle. so my guess is something like 1000 over? (2lbs a week)

No problem Bro...I think that 500 over maintanence is pretty good goal to shoot for:clap2:

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

you mean serm/pcs/activate together right?

i wonder if i can just do serm/activate. not that i have anything against stoked (PCS), just want to save some money where i can.

Are you running a SERM do not see it on your chart?

 

[ndnguy85]

Are you running a SERM do not see it on your chart?

i am.

Toremifene

 

[crazyfool405]

i am.

Toremifene

looks good man and a little overkill for havoc but still looks good., but honestly i wouldnt run it like that, thats a TON of money, if i had the money i would do it like you have it above. but because im poor i use the least amount of things at a cost effective price that will be stronge enough and last me.

also i dont do PCT for longer then 4 weeks, id rather cycle a little longer.

you can proably over lap the last week with everything. itll cut your pct a little shorter but will work just as well IMO

 

[ndnguy85]

looks good man and a little overkill for havoc but still looks good., but honestly i wouldnt run it like that, thats a TON of money, if i had the money i would do it like you have it above. but because im poor i use the least amount of things at a cost effective price that will be stronge enough and last me.

also i dont do PCT for longer then 4 weeks, id rather cycle a little longer.

you can proably over lap the last week with everything. itll cut your pct a little shorter but will work just as well IMO

ya it is a lot of money, but i just dont know what all to cut out.

partyman said i can cut out 6-oxo ($30 bucks).

what else in your opinion would you cut? what bout cissus and dhea? maintaining libido is not really my concern since my gf is 250 miles away. haha. as long as it's back by next year..i am ok.

1 Havoc
2 Cycle Support ($42 each)
1 DHEA ($8-10) - might cut this also
1 Taurine ($10)
1 Cissus Quadrangularis (100 caps/400mg) - $23 ------- will probably cut this, just going to up the dosage on the fish oil


1 SERM
1 Stoked (PCS) - $42
1 6-OXO - $30 ------ MIGHT CUT THIS
1 Lean Xtreme - bought this because of DS going out of business. may or may not use it.
1 Activate Xtreme - sitting here from the stoked stack i talked about earlier

all of the above is $300, way too much for me to afford right now and probably too much for the gains for a 4 week cycle.

 

[crazyfool405]

ya it is a lot of money, but i just dont know what all to cut out.

partyman said i can cut out 6-oxo ($30 bucks).

what else in your opinion would you cut? what bout cissus and dhea? maintaining libido is not really my concern since my gf is 250 miles away. haha. as long as it's back by next year..i am ok.

1 Havoc
2 Cycle Support ($42 each)
1 DHEA ($8-10) - might cut this also
1 Taurine ($10)
1 Cissus Quadrangularis (100 caps/400mg) - $23 ------- will probably cut this, just going to up the dosage on the fish oil


1 SERM
1 Stoked (PCS) - $42
1 6-OXO - $30 ------ MIGHT CUT THIS
1 Lean Xtreme - bought this because of DS going out of business. may or may not use it.
1 Activate Xtreme - sitting here from the stoked stack i talked about earlier

all of the above is $300, way too much for me to afford right now and probably too much for the gains for a 4 week cycle.

PCS and 6oxo, and cycle support should be all you need. and of course the epi.

you may not even need the 6oxo, thats a comfort thing for some people (like me)

also activate extreme you can save it and run it with something like max out or hyperdrol X2 or concurently with them.

but PCS CS and Epi ...... 99 bucks at nutra, your set bro. torem ON HAND IF NEED BE

 

[ndnguy85]

PCS and 6oxo, and cycle support should be all you need. and of course the epi.

you may not even need the 6oxo, thats a comfort thing for some people (like me)

also activate extreme you can save it and run it with something like max out or hyperdrol X2 or concurently with them.

but PCS CS and Epi ...... 99 bucks at nutra, your set bro. torem ON HAND IF NEED BE

wouldn't you need another jar of CS since 1 only lasts you 4 weeks, and they say you should preload for 2 weeks?

 

[partyman43]

wouldn't you need another jar of CS since 1 only lasts you 4 weeks, and they say you should preload for 2 weeks?

You can purchase Hawthorne berries and milkthistle seperately and run them for the 2 weeks(preload) if you want.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Wow time this 46 year old gets some glasses I am going blind

 

[crazyfool405]

Wow time this 46 year old gets some glasses I am going blind

nah man your still young,

46 years young my friend,

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

nah man your still young,

46 years young my friend,

Thank you but got to be blind to miss that LOL.