Permanent Crashed E2

[Lowe2guy]

Hey all just wondering if anyone else has any experience with this. I crashed my e2 almost 3 years ago and I still have yet to recover. My e2 levels are completely normal but yet it feels as though my E2 is crashed. All blood markers are 100% normal and in range. I'm hoping someone has some insight into this as the symptoms i've been dealing with are pretty nasty.

Current protocol is 30mg test cyp EOD, I've blasted test doses and I have virtually no response what so ever aside from typical androgenic sides. Doesn't sound real I know but trust me it is, the arimidex I took that crashed my e2 fucked me right up. Any insight and suggestions is appreciated

 

[Smont]

Ive never heard of this, normally the answer is simple, more test. But it sounds like something actually happened to your estrogen recptors. Im guessing here.

What does your dr. Say, having crashed estrogen is terrible. And it will eventually lead to a boatload of health problems. I wouldnt be surprised if after 3 years if its already had negetive effects on your bone and brain health.

Have you tried using hcg

 

[sns8778]

Hey all just wondering if anyone else has any experience with this. I crashed my e2 almost 3 years ago and I still have yet to recover. My e2 levels are completely normal but yet it feels as though my E2 is crashed. All blood markers are 100% normal and in range. I'm hoping someone has some insight into this as the symptoms i've been dealing with are pretty nasty.

Current protocol is 30mg test cyp EOD, I've blasted test doses and I have virtually no response what so ever aside from typical androgenic sides. Doesn't sound real I know but trust me it is, the arimidex I took that crashed my e2 fucked me right up. Any insight and suggestions is appreciated

I want to clarify and make sure I understand correctly - the thread title says that you permanently crashed your e2 levels, but what you really mean is that you crashed them 3 years ago and although they now are normal on your bloodwork, you still have symptoms that you feel are consistent with low estrogen levels?

 

[sns8778]

Ive never heard of this, normally the answer is simple, more test. But it sounds like something actually happened to your estrogen recptors. Im guessing here.

What does your dr. Say, having crashed estrogen is terrible. And it will eventually lead to a boatload of health problems. I wouldnt be surprised if after 3 years if its already had negetive effects on your bone and brain health.

Have you tried using hcg

The way I'm reading the post, and that's the reason I asked for clarification in my post, is that it seems like he was saying that his estrogen levels are back to normal based on his bloodwork, but that he still feels like the way he feels is the same as when he was suffering from low estrogen levels.

If that's the case, I doubt he has caused any actual negative health issues. But that depends on if I'm interpreting the way he wrote it correctly.

 

[Lowe2guy]

Ive never heard of this, normally the answer is simple, more test. But it sounds like something actually happened to your estrogen recptors. Im guessing here.

What does your dr. Say, having crashed estrogen is terrible. And it will eventually lead to a boatload of health problems. I wouldnt be surprised if after 3 years if its already had negetive effects on your bone and brain health.

Have you tried using hcg

My Dr is completely clueless, he keeps telling me it's impossible that my receptors aren't functioning. I am indeed suffering from a boatload of health problems as a result of this and it's quite scary as i'm out of options.

I've tried HCG and it's the only thing that has given me a window of improvement but the longer I stay on it the worse I start to feel. I'm assuming that's DHT getting upregulated which is further antagonizing my E2 receptors

 

[Lowe2guy]

The way I'm reading the post, and that's the reason I asked for clarification in my post, is that it seems like he was saying that his estrogen levels are back to normal based on his bloodwork, but that he still feels like the way he feels is the same as when he was suffering from low estrogen levels.

If that's the case, I doubt he has caused any actual negative health issues. But that depends on if I'm interpreting the way he wrote it correctly.

yeah you're interpreting it correctly. My E2 is completely normal on bloodwork but I have all the symptoms assosciated with low E2 ever since I crashed it.

 

[sns8778]

yeah you're interpreting it correctly. My E2 is completely normal on bloodwork but I have all the symptoms assosciated with low E2 ever since I crashed it.

Thank you. I want to help, I just wanted to make sure that I was interpreting what you were saying correctly.

A little background on me - I own multiple supplement companies so I have a lot of knowledge on the supplement side of things, but I also have a very rare endocrinology condition that has unfortunately led me to having to see multiple specialists and having tons of tests done, all the way up through pituitary MRI's and things like that. I always try to take things I've learned through my own unfortunate experiences and help anyone else that I can that may be dealing with out of the norm issues.

Do you happen to know what your normal estrogen level was before you crashed it years ago?

Do you happen to know what your estrogen level is now?

The reason I ask is that's one place to start because a person can be within the normal range, but where they are in that range may not be where they are used to being throughout their life for themselves. Similar to how a person can have a testosterone level of 450 and its in the normal range, but if they lived most of their live with their normal being 650, then 450 would be low for them even though not technically low. I hope that makes sense.

Also, do you happen to know your prolactin and cortisol levels? The reason I'm asking is that sometimes people mistake the symptoms of high or low estrogen with how high cortisol or high prolactin may make them feel.

Your experience with HCG helping at first but then starting to help less and less and you feeling worse is something I've heard from a lot of people that have prolactin issues. I'm very familiar with that from both unfortunate personal experience and also because we get a lot of endocrinologist and HRT clinic referrals for our Inhibit-P product, which is for prolactin control, so I have a lot of conversations with doctors and people suffering from prolactin issues.

 

[Smont]

The way I'm reading the post, and that's the reason I asked for clarification in my post, is that it seems like he was saying that his estrogen levels are back to normal based on his bloodwork, but that he still feels like the way he feels is the same as when he was suffering from low estrogen levels.

If that's the case, I doubt he has caused any actual negative health issues. But that depends on if I'm interpreting the way he wrote it correctly.

Yep, i overlooked that completely.

Im even more stumped now

 

[Hyde]

Do you suffer hot flashes? I crashed mine years ago with a letro “gyno reversal” protocol, that was useless of course, and had severe hot flashes in addition to other normal menopause-like symptoms & erectile dysfunction.

Sorry to hear things have been so rough for so long for you. That was a very unpleasant couple months for me.

 

[Leary942]

Hey all just wondering if anyone else has any experience with this. I crashed my e2 almost 3 years ago and I still have yet to recover. My e2 levels are completely normal but yet it feels as though my E2 is crashed. All blood markers are 100% normal and in range. I'm hoping someone has some insight into this as the symptoms i've been dealing with are pretty nasty.

Current protocol is 30mg test cyp EOD, I've blasted test doses and I have virtually no response what so ever aside from typical androgenic sides. Doesn't sound real I know but trust me it is, the arimidex I took that crashed my e2 fucked me right up. Any insight and suggestions is appreciated

What are your symptoms? I'm hesitant to believe E2 is the issue if the bloods say it's normal. That doesn't mean low estrogen didn't cause some other problem though, like a dysfunction in your NMDA-glutamate receptor. The excitatory actions of glutamate are triggered through estrogen. When someone crashes their E2 they will typically produce unfavorable ratios of GABA in relation to glutamate. I would assume in most people this bounces back when their E2 is corrected. But that may not be so for everyone. Too much glutamate is neurotoxic, but a deficiency will cause depression, lethargic behavior, erectile dysfunction, learning difficultues, etc.

 

[Lowe2guy]

Do you suffer hot flashes? I crashed mine years ago with a letro “gyno reversal” protocol, that was useless of course, and had severe hot flashes in addition to other normal menopause-like symptoms & erectile dysfunction.

Sorry to hear things have been so rough for so long for you. That was a very unpleasant couple months for me.

Yah man suffer from bad hot flashes accompanied by facial flushing.
Appreciate the words man

 

[Lowe2guy]

What are your symptoms? I'm hesitant to believe E2 is the issue if the bloods say it's normal. That doesn't mean low estrogen didn't cause some other problem though, like a dysfunction in your NMDA-glutamate receptor. The excitatory actions of glutamate are triggered through estrogen. When someone crashes their E2 they will typically produce unfavorable ratios of GABA in relation to glutamate. I would assume in most people this bounces back when their E2 is corrected. But that may not be so for everyone. Too much glutamate is neurotoxic, but a deficiency will cause depression, lethargic behavior, erectile dysfunction, learning difficultues, etc.

Dry skin, dry brittle hair, diffuse hairloss, dry eyes, dry mouth, weight gain, facial flushing, hot flashes, joint pain, joints popping/clicking, frequent urination, flat muscles, 0 glycogen in my body I feel dehydrated when I'm clearly not, lethargy, depression, anhedonia, ocassional anxiety, mild ED, weak orgasm, crazy increased body hair, no response to TRT or a cycle

I know it doesn't seem real but everything I'm saying is pointing to low E2. I remember how when I would get high E2 I'd feel fantastic but have all the typical high e2 symptoms associated with it. Now I feel absolutely nothing no matter how high I let my E2 ride the only change is increased facial flushing most likely from androgens not the estrogen.

 

[Leary942]

Dry skin, dry brittle hair, diffuse hairloss, dry eyes, dry mouth, weight gain, facial flushing, hot flashes, joint pain, joints popping/clicking, frequent urination, flat muscles, 0 glycogen in my body I feel dehydrated when I'm clearly not, lethargy, depression, anhedonia, ocassional anxiety, mild ED, weak orgasm, crazy increased body hair, no response to TRT or a cycle

I know it doesn't seem real but everything I'm saying is pointing to low E2. I remember how when I would get high E2 I'd feel fantastic but have all the typical high e2 symptoms associated with it. Now I feel absolutely nothing no matter how high I let my E2 ride the only change is increased facial flushing most likely from androgens not the estrogen.

That is certainly strange. You said you used arimidex right? I did read some reports a while back that suggested some of arimidex's side effects (like joint pain) can be independent of it's estrogen lowering effects. That was because it was inducing a low-grade autoimmune response in certain individuals. Might would help to tell your doc the next time you see him to see what your antibodies, WBC, and CRP is. But other than that I'm stumped.

I noticed you mentioned in a previous comment you might think DHT is being upregulated and antagonizing E2 more. If you think this might be the case, you could always expirement with a mild DHT inhibitor like Saw Palmetto. Start with the lowest effective dose possible, usually like 500-1,000mgs. If that helps you'll know you're on the right track.

 

[BCseacow83]

IF your symptoms are from, what sounds like, a "reduced sensitivity" to normal estrogen levels then perhaps a trial of something along these lines may help:

INGREDIENTS: Water, Glycerin, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Caprylic/Cabric Triglyceride, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Stearic Acid, Glyceryl Stearate, Isopropyl Palmitate, Stearyl Alcohol, Phenoxyethanol, Carbomer, Caprylyl Glycol, Sodium Bicarbonate, Estriol USP, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Soy Lecithin, Citric Acid, Estradiol USP.

They used to state the amount per pump of the estriol and estradiol but I see that has changed. We have one at home for our female dog's spay incontinence and it works very well. I can get you the amounts per pump if interested.

TO BE CLEAR:
I would NEVER suggest this other than a last resort. Most guys, as SMONT, pointed out can simply use more test or even DHEA/Pregnenolone or HCG to achieve the increase in E needed but since all these can also increase androgens thus not necessarily improve the ratio of T/E this may be an option.

 

[sns8778]

I think an important point in this thread is that he is experiencing what he feels are symptoms of low estrogen, but his estrogen levels via his bloodwork are in the normal range, and based on numbers he sent me, I don't think estrogen is the issue.

I think that he has symptoms that may be similar to when he did crash his estrogen, but I don't think that's what's going on now.

I don't doubt that he has symptoms, I just mean that I think its due to something else.

 

[Hyde]

I think an important point in this thread is that he is experiencing what he feels are symptoms of low estrogen, but his estrogen levels via his bloodwork are in the normal range, and based on numbers he sent me, I don't think estrogen is the issue.

I think that he has symptoms that may be similar to when he did crash his estrogen, but I don't think that's what's going on now.

I don't doubt that he has symptoms, I just mean that I think its due to something else.

This is my thought. I mean, by definition his symptoms can’t be from crashed e2, because it’s not crashed. It certainly is believe that it could be from the instance his e2 WAS crashed, but now there is some residual dysfunction from something else.

I think that’s a really important distinction because it would imply adding more estradiol would no longer be of use.

If it were me, I’d certainly consider trying the estradiol cream since more test, DHEA, & HCG isn’t getting him feeling right, but I also wouldn’t hold my breath.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

I had similarly crashed E2 feeling that never seemed to go away. Pregnenolone helped me tons

 

[Lowe2guy]

This is my thought. I mean, by definition his symptoms can’t be from crashed e2, because it’s not crashed. It certainly is believe that it could be from the instance his e2 WAS crashed, but now there is some residual dysfunction from something else.

I think that’s a really important distinction because it would imply adding more estradiol would no longer be of use.

If it were me, I’d certainly consider trying the estradiol cream since more test, DHEA, & HCG isn’t getting him feeling right, but I also wouldn’t hold my breath.

I've taken injectable E2 didn't help at all, I legit don't feel E2 in anyway it's unbelievable I know. I don't believe my E2 is crashed at all anymore I just don't think any of it is getting to my receptors. I don't see any other explanation

 

[Lowe2guy]

I had similarly crashed E2 feeling that never seemed to go away. Pregnenolone helped me tons

I've tried preg but very low doses (5mg) maybe I need more? What was your dosage? What symptoms were you experiencing?

 

[Lowe2guy]

That is certainly strange. You said you used arimidex right? I did read some reports a while back that suggested some of arimidex's side effects (like joint pain) can be independent of it's estrogen lowering effects. That was because it was inducing a low-grade autoimmune response in certain individuals. Might would help to tell your doc the next time you see him to see what your antibodies, WBC, and CRP is. But other than that I'm stumped.

I noticed you mentioned in a previous comment you might think DHT is being upregulated and antagonizing E2 more. If you think this might be the case, you could always expirement with a mild DHT inhibitor like Saw Palmetto. Start with the lowest effective dose possible, usually like 500-1,000mgs. If that helps you'll know you're on the right track.

CRP is normal, WBC normal, tested for autoimmune and that turned out normal. The only thing that has actually helped is Finasteride but it is nowhere near a cure. It does get rid of the itchyskin when sweating feeling and my itchy scalp also vanishes but that's about it. Only negative effect I seem to have from it is I gain more bodyfat which always makes me quit it.

 

[Hyde]

I've tried preg but very low doses (5mg) maybe I need more? What was your dosage? What symptoms were you experiencing?

5mg is a fairly low oral dose. I would experiment with more.

I respond strongly to oral Pregnenolone; I can feel a single 10mg dose and occasionally use some preWO for extra energy/focus. It often bugs my gyno from the single dose, but I am rather sensitive to PR activation (and Preg also converts to progesterone somewhat, unlike DHEA).

It’s very affordable, so definitely something worth a try, even to see if you acutely enjoy it. Some people have low preg and need doses as high as 50mg daily, and it’s a God-send. But if you take too much, it can make you feel a bit anxious or manic, so don’t rush to higher doses. Taken daily it kind of builds up in your system.

CRP is normal, WBC normal, tested for autoimmune and that turned out normal. The only thing that has actually helped is Finasteride but it is nowhere near a cure. It does get rid of the itchyskin when sweating feeling and my itchy scalp also vanishes but that's about it. Only negative effect I seem to have from it is I gain more bodyfat which always makes me quit it.

Do you have dandruff as well as itchy scalp, and if so is it more traditional or like plaque psoriasis? Because the latter can be a stress response.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

I've tried preg but very low doses (5mg) maybe I need more? What was your dosage? What symptoms were you experiencing?

I use alpha Gainz alpha p5 which is a transdermal at 25mg/ml. I use a ml a day

 

[Lowe2guy]

5mg is a fairly low oral dose. I would experiment with more.

I respond strongly to oral Pregnenolone; I can feel a single 10mg dose and occasionally use some preWO for extra energy/focus. It often bugs my gyno from the single dose, but I am rather sensitive to PR activation (and Preg also converts to progesterone somewhat, unlike DHEA).

It’s very affordable, so definitely something worth a try, even to see if you acutely enjoy it. Some people have low preg and need doses as high as 50mg daily, and it’s a God-send. But if you take too much, it can make you feel a bit anxious or manic, so don’t rush to higher doses. Taken daily it kind of builds up in your system.




Do you have dandruff as well as itchy scalp, and if so is it more traditional or like plaque psoriasis? Because the latter can be a stress response.

Will look into dosing more pregnenolone for sure.

I do have dandruff/itchy scalp, its strictly because my scalp is dry as hell so more like traditional.

 

[Hyde]

Will look into dosing more pregnenolone for sure.

I do have dandruff/itchy scalp, its strictly because my scalp is dry as hell so more like traditional.

Good deal, just checking. That’s better, trust me.

 

[Leary942]

CRP is normal, WBC normal, tested for autoimmune and that turned out normal. The only thing that has actually helped is Finasteride but it is nowhere near a cure. It does get rid of the itchyskin when sweating feeling and my itchy scalp also vanishes but that's about it. Only negative effect I seem to have from it is I gain more bodyfat which always makes me quit it.

That's good to hear. I mean, it sucks you're still dealing with the issue but knowing it's not autoimmune related is good. The pregnenolone may help some. I think anyone been on TRT long enough should backfill their P5/DHEA pathways anyways. It will help some with estrogen, but also pregnenolone is a modulator for the glutamate receptor I mentioned in my previous post (R). Only thing I dislike about P5 is it doesn't dissolve well in most solvents. Benzyl alcohol, isopropanol, ethanol, propylene glycol, oleic acid, tocopherol, etc. they all give me problems lol. I can barely get 20mg/ml. Most pre-made topicals from companies don't seem to be able to do much better either. At that rate you might as well just take the powder orally.

 

[lionking999]

have you checked prolactin levels ?

 

[Lowe2guy]

have you checked prolactin levels ?

Prolactin varies between 10-18 and it's always been that way even before crashing e2

 

[thescience]

im seeing information stating that chastberry/vitex lowers prolactin and also information that it increases it. is this one of those deals when a higher amount lowers it and a lower amount increases prolactin?

 

[GreenMachineX]

@Lowe2guy
I think I've mentioned this to you on the other forum, but I had success with beta-ecdysterone when I was going through something similar. It activates the ER-beta receptor. It's not too expensive for a trial run to see if it works. I've only ever used the Iron Forged Ultra Ecdy product FWIW...for like 2 years straight.

 

[diesel x]

take some test, ment and dbol i bet they wont be crashed anymore

 

[lanky]

I use alpha Gainz alpha p5 which is a transdermal at 25mg/ml. I use a ml a day

probably my favorite transdermal at around 75mg a day from alpha gainz..great mood and skin was 5 years younger on my face, and helped with tolerance to cold temperatures(unsure of the mechanism)

 

[lanky]

That's good to hear. I mean, it sucks you're still dealing with the issue but knowing it's not autoimmune related is good. The pregnenolone may help some. I think anyone been on TRT long enough should backfill their P5/DHEA pathways anyways. It will help some with estrogen, but also pregnenolone is a modulator for the glutamate receptor I mentioned in my previous post (R). Only thing I dislike about P5 is it doesn't dissolve well in most solvents. Benzyl alcohol, isopropanol, ethanol, propylene glycol, oleic acid, tocopherol, etc. they all give me problems lol. I can barely get 20mg/ml. Most pre-made topicals from companies don't seem to be able to do much better either. At that rate you might as well just take the powder orally.

i have noticed the same thing as well with the low concentration per ml of all the pregnenolone transdermal products, so far salvo seems to be the best bet because even though the concentration is low( just like the other carriers for pregnenolone) it seems to have superior penetration compared to the other carriers..salvo definitely shines with this substance

 

[Leary942]

i have noticed the same thing as well with the low concentration per ml of all the pregnenolone transdermal products, so far salvo seems to be the best bet because even though the concentration is low( just like the other carriers for pregnenolone) it seems to have superior penetration compared to the other carriers..salvo definitely shines with this substance

I haven't tried salvo yet, but I definitely agree it has great skin penetration. I think salvo's main carrier was isopropanol and benzyl alcohol, which are two of the best. I've gotten benzyl alcohol to mix things that would otherwise break in everclear, glycerin, PG, and MCT.

 

[Lowe2guy]

@Lowe2guy
I think I've mentioned this to you on the other forum, but I had success with beta-ecdysterone when I was going through something similar. It activates the ER-beta receptor. It's not too expensive for a trial run to see if it works. I've only ever used the Iron Forged Ultra Ecdy product FWIW...for like 2 years straight.

Yeah you have, i've tried weider's beta-ecdysterone and didn't have any benefits from it. Are you still getting benefits from it?

 

[lanky]

@Lowe2guy
I think I've mentioned this to you on the other forum, but I had success with beta-ecdysterone when I was going through something similar. It activates the ER-beta receptor. It's not too expensive for a trial run to see if it works. I've only ever used the Iron Forged Ultra Ecdy product FWIW...for like 2 years straight.

wow, that is probably the longest i have ever seen anyone run ecdy, kudo for being a guinea pig for the community..haha..i also ran high dose ecdy but did not notice much, maybe slightly more fullness. i ran ecdynize from Boldanic. tablets were very small 10mg tablets of white powder supposed to be almost pure ecdysterone and not whole plant extracts . i remember getting some itchy skin from the product, unsure if it was the ecdy or the filler causing it....i also did read the mechanism was ER beta regulated mechanism for muscle grown with ecdy..i may have to revisit this in the future

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yeah you have, i've tried weider's beta-ecdysterone and didn't have any benefits from it. Are you still getting benefits from it?

I haven't tried it in a long time. I had stopped because I got my e2 in a good place and stopped getting benefits from it which also leads me to believe it could help you. In other words, it was only helping when my e2 was low. Might be a good time for me to try again though.

 

[Raptor11]

@Lowe2guy How have you been bro? What is the update with you ?