Old man needs advice on cutting in regards to anabolics

[JoePaul39]

I am 43 years old on trt and have run anabolics the past 4 years. My question is due to my older age would it generally be recommended I only cut while on cycle since the older you are the more likely you are too lose muscle when in a calorie deficit? I would imagine this would especially be true if you have more muscle than an average 43 year old made due to running anabolics and training for years. Obviously I would prefer to maximize my cycles and reserve them only for building muscle and cut only when off cycle, but given that I am 43 and a half and like to run real low calorie deficits when cutting don’t know if this is an advisable strategy as I’m afraid I would risk losing all my gains. Also, for the younger guys that run anabolics, do you usually do your cuts when just natty or only when on cycle?

 

[Whisky]

I am 43 years old on trt and have run anabolics the past 4 years. My question is due to my older age would it generally be recommended I only cut while on cycle since the older you are the more likely you are too lose muscle when in a calorie deficit? I would imagine this would especially be true if you have more muscle than an average 43 year old made due to running anabolics and training for years. Obviously I would prefer to maximize my cycles and reserve them only for building muscle and cut only when off cycle, but given that I am 43 and a half and like to run real low calorie deficits when cutting don’t know if this is an advisable strategy as I’m afraid I would risk losing all my gains. Also, for the younger guys that run anabolics, do you usually do your cuts when just natty or only when on cycle?

I’m 39 bro, I used to cut natty (same logic as you) but lost everything. For the last 3 years I’ve only cut on cycle and it’s massive difference. If I had to pick one or the other id save anabolics for cutting over bulking tbh

 

[johnny412]

I am 43 years old on trt and have run anabolics the past 4 years. My question is due to my older age would it generally be recommended I only cut while on cycle since the older you are the more likely you are too lose muscle when in a calorie deficit? I would imagine this would especially be true if you have more muscle than an average 43 year old made due to running anabolics and training for years. Obviously I would prefer to maximize my cycles and reserve them only for building muscle and cut only when off cycle, but given that I am 43 and a half and like to run real low calorie deficits when cutting don’t know if this is an advisable strategy as I’m afraid I would risk losing all my gains. Also, for the younger guys that run anabolics, do you usually do your cuts when just natty or only when on cycle?

43...and a half...boy you are ancient! you young people crack me up

 

[JoePaul39]

I’m 39 bro, I used to cut natty (same logic as you) but lost everything. For the last 3 years I’ve only cut on cycle and it’s massive difference. If I had to pick one or the other id save anabolics for cutting over bulking tbh

When you cut natty and lost everything we’re you on trt? I am, but really don’t think that is significant enough to make a difference when you get older especially the more muscle you have added while enhanced.

 

[JoePaul39]

I’m 39 bro, I used to cut natty (same logic as you) but lost everything. For the last 3 years I’ve only cut on cycle and it’s massive difference. If I had to pick one or the other id save anabolics for cutting over bulking tbh

Ya my last cycle I gained 20 pounds and it was the first time I lost it all. I thought since I was on trt and thus no need to pct I could get away cutting only 2 weeks out after the cycle had ended. Losing it all in that case may have more to do with having cut so closely after the end of the cycle, rather than age though to be honest.

 

[BBiceps]

Yeah you’re on TRT so you’re not natty and you can cut without losing muscle even without TRT with the right diet and training. Get a coach if you’re serious and want real results. Pls understand also that those 20lb you gained on cycle was lost the day you’re stopped the cycle, even without cutting, if you want to add pounds that stick you have to do longer cycles with injections.

 

[JoePaul39]

Yeah you’re on TRT so you’re not natty and you can cut without losing muscle even without TRT with the right diet and training. Get a coach if you’re serious and want real results. Pls understand also that those 20lb you gained on cycle was lost the day you’re stopped the cycle, even without cutting, if you want to add pounds that stick you have to do longer cycles with injections.

I have gained before on multiple cycles that were 8 weeks and not lost everything probably due to the trt. That was the only one i lost everything on. I started using the transdermal Trest because it enables me to do longer cycles and can be used for 16 week cycles if desired and is pretty potent at 90 mg. This cycle I’m shooting for 11 weeks. Guess we will see if I will lose everything this time too since I have a log now and am up 20 pounds, but this time unlike last time I wont be cutting with Ephedrine 2 weeks afterward in an extreme 1000 calorie deficit, but rather eat at maintenance for 2 months afterwards. I’m going to keep the log updated after the cycle is over till I stop losing weight so stay tuned… I predict I will keep about half of it.

And yes I know your right about pinning and longer cycle duration leads to keeping more gains.

 

[BBiceps]

I have gained before on multiple cycles that were 8 weeks and not lost everything probably due to the trt. That was the only one i lost everything on. I started using the transdermal Trest because it enables me to do longer cycles and can be used for 16 week cycles if desired and is pretty potent at 90 mg. This cycle I’m shooting for 11 weeks. Guess we will see if I will lose everything this time too since I have a log now and am up 20 pounds, but this time unlike last time I wont be cutting with Ephedrine 2 weeks afterward in an extreme 1000 calorie deficit, but rather eat at maintenance for 2 months afterwards. I’m going to keep the log updated after the cycle is over till I stop losing weight so stay tuned… I predict I will keep about half of it.

And yes I know your right about pinning and longer cycle duration leads to keeping more gains.

Remember that your “maintenance” has to be a lot higher now when you’re heavier, if you want to keep that new weight.

I still would recommend to get a coach to help you get to where you want to be.

 

[Nac]

If you're prepared to do a longer, slower cut then you can almost certainly do so with just your TRT dose. Remember, when you cut as a true natty your hormones will tend to drop on average...on TRT you won't face this problem.

Depending on genetics, you might not get below say 10% bodyfat without starting to lose muscle as well but I think most guys will be happy as fuk with how they look at 12-15% (and that's a genuine 12-15%, not an internet-bro "estimate"), plus even if you did lose a bit of muscle you'll gain it right back as soon as you up the kcals/dose again.

 

[Whisky]

I think the point being missed here is how far past your genetic limit you are, so with respect to the two guys above I would say at a certain point it becomes very very hard to maintain muscle that was obtained with high levels of androgens. For many many people they simply won’t retain mass in a cut when they are past that genetic limit regardless of how good the diet and programme is. The body simply doesn’t have the capability to hold it (this is exactly why the proper big boys often cruise on doses we would consider a cycle).
If he’s on true trt dosing then he has a normal amount of androgens……just the way it is.

this is probably why at first he could hold the mass but now he’s past his genetic limit he can’t.

 

[Whisky]

When you cut natty and lost everything we’re you on trt? I am, but really don’t think that is significant enough to make a difference when you get older especially the more muscle you have added while enhanced.

yeah I cruise on a trt dose, it isn’t enough for me to maintain on a cut. I can maintain but only by eating enough.

 

[Nac]

I think the point being missed here is how far past your genetic limit you are, so with respect to the two guys above I would say at a certain point it becomes very very hard to maintain muscle that was obtained with high levels of androgens. For many many people they simply won’t retain mass in a cut when they are past that genetic limit regardless of how good the diet and programme is. The body simply doesn’t have the capability to hold it (this is exactly why the proper big boys often cruise on doses we would consider a cycle).
If he’s on true trt dosing then he has a normal amount of androgens……just the way it is.

this is probably why at first he could hold the mass but now he’s past his genetic limit he can’t.

That could well be true but the high level of androgens you spoke of might apply to yourself, but does it also apply to the OP? You've said yourself you tend to dose reasonably high when blasting, but from what I've seen of OPs blasts he doesn't dose anywhere near as high, for as long, nor even utilize the same oils.

 

[Nac]

If it were me, I'd simply try a conservative (not too large a kcal deficit) cut whilst running TRT just to see how far I could push it and tolerate it. You'd want to start it after eating at maintanence for a bit though.

If it works OK, great. If it doesn't, if you find you prefer more shorter aggressive cuts using more than TRT then that's great too. Any experience where you learn your own responses is only a good thing.

I just think it could be a bit premature to conclude it cant be done without even trying.

 

[Whisky]

That could well be true but the high level of androgens you spoke of might apply to yourself, but does it also apply to the OP? You've said yourself you tend to dose reasonably high when blasting, but from what I've seen of OPs blasts he doesn't dose anywhere near as high, for as long, nor even utilize the same oils.

I agree but at the same time just because he doesn’t need as high an androgen load he is still obtaining the muscle with a load far in excess of his trt dose. Obviously I don’t know if he is well past his genetic limit, might not be and thus my suggestion would be wrong, but it makes sense in my head based on the info at hand

 

[BBiceps]

I think it’s possible to keep weight above your genetic limit, it’s not easy but with the right diet and training it’s possible, but now we talking extremely hard work.

I can say one thing though, if you want to keep 20lb that you gained on a short oral cycle you have to eat&train even more than you did on cycle because if you lucky that’s only 1-3lb of lean tissue.

 

[CroLifter]

I’m 39 bro, I used to cut natty (same logic as you) but lost everything. For the last 3 years I’ve only cut on cycle and it’s massive difference. If I had to pick one or the other id save anabolics for cutting over bulking tbh

My cuts at 19 and 20 went horribly wrong hahah age got nothing to do with it.

Never gonna cut off cycle anymore or at least without anabolic help of some kind.

If you dont wanna use aas perhaps peptides and cortisol blockers like invictus plus clen could be used instead.

 

[Whisky]

I think it’s possible to keep weight above your genetic limit, it’s not easy but with the right diet and training it’s possible, but now we talking extremely hard work.

I can say one thing though, if you want to keep 20lb that you gained on a short oral cycle you have to eat&train even more than you did on cycle because if you lucky that’s only 1-3lb of lean tissue.

but he’s talking about doing it while cutting (I agree if it wasn’t for the cut)……

 

[BBiceps]

but he’s talking about doing it while cutting (I agree if it wasn’t for the cut)……

Yeah, It’s impossible to keep 20 just gained bulking lb on a cut. It’s no surprise at all so OP should of not have expected it.

 

[JoePaul39]

Remember that your “maintenance” has to be a lot higher now when you’re heavier, if you want to keep that new weight.

I still would recommend to get a coach to help you get to where you want to be.

Ya man I would really like a coach, but can’t afford one. My wife already complains about my anabolic budget lol. You have a coach huh? About how long is your typical cycle? Thanks.

 

[BBiceps]

Ya man I would really like a coach, but can’t afford one. My wife already complains about my anabolic budget lol. You have a coach huh? About how long is your typical cycle? Thanks.

My cycles are shorter but I have different goals from you and I used to have coaches for everything (different sports) but I’m not using one now, I’m debating to get one for powerlifting, I’m stuck and not as strong as I think I should be and it annoys me so fvcking much!

 

[JoePaul39]

If you're prepared to do a longer, slower cut then you can almost certainly do so with just your TRT dose. Remember, when you cut as a true natty your hormones will tend to drop on average...on TRT you won't face this problem.

Depending on genetics, you might not get below say 10% bodyfat without starting to lose muscle as well but I think most guys will be happy as fuk with how they look at 12-15% (and that's a genuine 12-15%, not an internet-bro "estimate"), plus even if you did lose a bit of muscle you'll gain it right back as soon as you up the kcals/dose again.

Ya I think a 1000 calorie deficit a day on just trt is too much at 43 especially with the Ephedrine. Certainly eating at maintenance for only two weeks after gaining on the cycle wasn’t advisable. I’m gonna try cutting one last time on just trt, but eat at maintenance for two months after my cycle ends this time and also only do like a 500 calorie deficit instead of a 1000. Will have to keep a close watch on the scale too to make sure I’m not losing weight rapidly like last tkme and if I am I will just stop and only cut on anabolics plus trt. Hopefully the fact that this cycle is 11 weeks instead of 8 will also play to my advantage.

 

[JoePaul39]

If it were me, I'd simply try a conservative (not too large a kcal deficit) cut whilst running TRT just to see how far I could push it and tolerate it. You'd want to start it after eating at maintanence for a bit though.

If it works OK, great. If it doesn't, if you find you prefer more shorter aggressive cuts using more than TRT then that's great too. Any experience where you learn your own responses is only a good thing.

I just think it could be a bit premature to conclude it cant be done without even trying.

i agree. Good advice.

 

[JoePaul39]

Yeah, It’s impossible to keep 20 just gained bulking lb on a cut. It’s no surprise at all so OP should of not have expected it.

LOL I never expected to keep all 20 pounds nor did I ever say that! A lot of it is just glycogen anyway and I’m sure a portion is also fat. I would be content at keeping 6 or 7 pounds of it. This cycle is not all orals as the Trest is transdermal at 90 mg,plus there is the trt. First cycle I ever ran in a bulk was 8 weeks oral plus trt and I gained links 17 or 18 pounds and kept about 12 of it after the weight loss. Of course I was a “virgin” at it back then so can never replicate that again.

 

[JoePaul39]

If I end up losing all my gains this time despite eating at maintenance I am going to add 30 mg transdermal Trest Ace daily to my trt to cruise on in the future to maintain gains if I am at my genetic limit.

 

[Nac]

If I end up losing all my gains this time despite eating at maintenance I am going to add 30 mg transdermal Trest Ace daily to my trt to cruise on in the future to maintain gains if I am at my genetic limit.

There's no way I could do this. Trest fuks my lipids over big time. Just keep this possibility in mind.

 

[JoePaul39]

There's no way I could do this. Trest #### my lipids over big time. Just keep this possibility in mind.

Ya I would get full panel bloodwork for sure if I ever do it. If that is the case I definitely would stop as that is a death sentence. I read one bro on another forum who claims he had tests on his liver and lipids and it was fine. Maybe it wouldn’t have too much of an effect at just 30 mg a day transdermal or 15 mg a day. You recall what your dosage was?

 

[BBiceps]

If I end up losing all my gains this time despite eating at maintenance I am going to add 30 mg transdermal Trest Ace daily to my trt to cruise on in the future to maintain gains if I am at my genetic limit.

If you eat at maintenance you will lose your weight 100%, even with Trest. If you want to to keep your weight you’ll have to eat like you do now. If you want to keep your “gains” (which realistically is 1-3lb) you’ll have to still eat a little more than your maintenance.

 

[JoePaul39]

If you eat at maintenance you will lose your weight 100%, even with Trest. If you want to to keep your weight you’ll have to eat like you do now. If you want to keep your “gains” (which realistically is 1-3lb) you’ll have to still eat a little more than your maintenance.

Im going to eat at maintenance recognizing it will be higher than what it was precycle
due to the extra weight. I don’t want to eat like I am eating now on cycle because that is like 1000 calories a day over maintenance and without being on cycle that would be way too much and just lead to excess fat gains and additional weight since I would be eating more calories than I’m burning each day.

If I ever do decide to add Trest to my trt to cruise on I don’t believe I would lose as much as if I just cruise on my trt as Trest is quite powerful as it is 10 times more anabolic per mg than test.

 

[BBiceps]

Im going to eat at maintenance recognizing it will be higher than what it was precycle
due to the extra weight. I don’t want to eat like I am eating now on cycle because that is like 1000 calories a day over maintenance and without being on cycle that would be way too much and just lead to excess fat gains and additional weight since I would be eating more calories than I’m burning each day.

If I ever do decide to add Trest to my trt to cruise on I don’t believe I would lose as much as if I just cruise on my trt as Trest is quite powerful as it is 10 times more anabolic per mg than test.

I know it can be costly but I really think you would benefit a lot from seeing a trainer, maybe just 1-2x a month. I actually going to hit 1 up in the next few days, just to get myself over this bump I’m at.