OBAMACARE...JUST A SMOKESCREEN

[ax1]

lol....try signing up for obamacare, plus if i am remembering correctly it doesn't go into effect until 2014 if even then....my take is that obamacare is just a farce and will never happen, just to many variables and obstacles...like i said at the beginning of this thread, it is my opinion that obamacare was designed to fail. just a way out of healthcare benefits for business!!!

Im not going to sign up for BarrySoetorocare, lol...we are all a part of it by force, expect for those doctors who are turning away insurance customers back home and taking cash only...although those doctors will also be under Obamacare laws as customers.

I dont think its exactly designed to fail...but more so a ponzi scheme by the the fascist goverment currently in charge.

It's a tax on the poor. Its also a way to raise taxes on everyone without calling it a tax, although even the supreme court declared it a tax.

Its also an expansion of fascist power over the people, with new Obamacare 16,000 IRS agents (and will grow) its more authority, control over choices and tracking/data-basing over all of us. Id like to add more but wanna keep this post short.

So I agree with you that it will fail for us....but its a total success for them.

 

[Touey]

Its also an expansion of fascist power over the people, with new Obamacare 16,000 IRS agents (and will grow) its more authority, control over choices and tracking/data-basing over all of us.

The eventuality goal to have so many for government payroll through various ingenious snooks and crannies that the Obama party always have the shoo-in

 

[ax1]

Lol.....Obama now asking Americans to be a part of the club...."Team Obamacare" calling on all Americans to brainwash your family and neighbors to be on board with the agenda.



If you sign up for the "club" you get a free bumper sticker, lol what a freak
https://my.barackobama.com/page/s/join-team-obamacare-v1

 

[thebigt]

=Touey;4209849]The eventuality goal to have so many for government payroll through various ingenious snooks and crannies that the Obama party always have the shoo-in[/QUOTE]

then if that is the goal, why didn't they just expand medicare to include everyone and eliminate the middleman-the insurance carriers? this would have made much more sense, been more practical and much less expensive....everyone could be under the same umbrella.
after all everyone pays into medicare already!!!

 

[Beau]

They should name it "Team Kiss Your Financial Wellbeing Goodbye".

 

[Touey]

I am having trouble understanding what you say sorry, are you say then in your scenario this would make for many more people on the government payroll?

 

[Touey]

I think after going over I see what you say but I do not think Obama and that lot were thinking they could push that far though they I think will have very much liked

 

[thebigt]

I am having trouble understanding what you say sorry, are you say then in your scenario this would make for many more people on the government payroll?

the way obamacare is set up you get insurance thru a carrier like prudential....all of the carriers are not available in all states, and different rates are being charged from one state to another. this makes the potential for gouging/ corruption by the carriers alot more feasible.

if they were serious about socializing medicine they should have used the system already in place; medicare. expanding medicare to include everyone based on income makes much more sense to me, afterall we already pay into medicare based on income so all the information is already in place.

doing it the way they are doing it makes little sense to me...this is one of the reasons why i think obamacare was set up to fail.

 

[Touey]

I see, so it would also be much easier on American to not be bound to a state

 

[thebigt]

I see, so it would also be much easier on American to not be bound to a state

it would at least be fairer if everyone paid the same rate...the way it is now set up rates will vary from state to state. besides medicare is already deducted from paychecks by the irs at the federal level, so they already have that program in place....

 

[Touey]

You say they are set it up to fail maybe they are thinking that is way to going the way of Europe as noone would go for that right off.

They are easing America gently in the hot bath with small doses on novocain-promises for a more bright future for everyone to voiding the pain.

 

[thebigt]

You say they are set it up to fail maybe they are thinking that is way to going the way of Europe as noone would go for that right off.

They are easing America gently in the hot bath with small doses on novocain-promises for a more bright future for everyone to voiding the pain.

again...my theory is that the politicians on both sides are doing the bidding of big business who wants out of healthcare benefits in the worse way....there are billions of dollars involved in american business's involvement in employee healthcare, one hell of a motivation to find a way out....obamacare is structured to give business just that way out, while at the same time being able to justify it by pointing the finger at obamacare.....to me this seems more than a coincidence, i truly believe business is responsible for obamacare.

 

[Touey]

Where is the cut off to being a big business that have participated in this. So all the business the big ones in America are in the Obama pocket for this health plan.

 

[McCrew530]

Where is the cut off to being a big business that have participated in this. So all the business the big ones in America are in the Obama pocket for this health plan.

I believe that the cut off is 50 full time employees for forced participation. Which means many small business' who had close to that either fired or down graded some employees to part time. I have a couple of friends who had that happen. Also bigger business have till 2015 to be in full compliance vs your every day American who has until the start of next year. John Stewart did a great interview with a rep for Obama Care and grilled the sh!t out of her. I believe this is nothing more than another tax. Forced compliance seems a lot like socialism to me. If it was an optional government service to utilize like the US postal service that would be something completely different.

 

[thebigt]

Where is the cut off to being a big business that have participated in this. So all the business the big ones in America are in the Obama pocket for this health plan.

you have it backwards, lol.....according to my theory obama along with the republicans are in big business's pocket.

once obamacare fails, which i believe it will....then obama can blame the republicans for it's failure and republicans can declare a victory by defeating it....all the while business gets out of healthcare benefits blame free.

 

[Touey]

you have it backwards, lol.....according to my theory obama along with the republicans are in big business's pocket.

once obamacare fails, which i believe it will....then obama can blame the republicans for it's failure and republicans can declare a victory by defeating it....all the while business gets out of healthcare benefits blame free.

ok I understand what you say now, but the tea partying people they do not stand for much of this so they some of them are in big business it seeming they would get wind of all these and blow the whistle

 

[thebigt]

I believe that the cut off is 30 full time employees for forced participation. Which means many small business' who had close to that either fired or down graded some employees to part time. I have a couple of friends who had that happen. Also bigger business have till 2015 to be in full compliance vs your every day American who has until the start of next year. John Stewart did a great interview with a rep for Obama Care and grilled the sh!t out of her. I believe this is nothing more than another tax. Forced compliance seems a lot like socialism to me. If it was an optional government service to utilize like the US postal service that would be something completely different.

IT IS SOCIALISM


even the post office which has the best union is not immune, they are using temps instead of new hires so as not to pay benefits.

 

[thebigt]

ok I understand what you say now, but the tea partying people they do not stand for much of this so they some of them are in some big business it seeming they would get wind of all these and blow the whistle

lol...most of the tea party members are business owners who stand to benefit from obamcare's failure, even if they were aware of what is going on they would probably support it!!!

 

[Touey]

I see it seem though that someone would not leak this to the media it is such a grand scale operation

 

[Beau]

lol...most of the tea party members are business owners who stand to benefit from obamcare's failure, even if they were aware of what is going on they would probably support it!!!

EVERYONE (except those who will have their premiums subsidized/paid for by others) will benefit from the failure of Soetoro-care.

 

[Touey]

I see it seem though that someone would not leak this to the media it is such a grand scale operation

Maybe the America media is in the pocket here too?

 

[thebigt]

Maybe the America media is in the pocket here too?

media IS big business...need i say more........

 

[Touey]

media IS big business...need i say more........

Bill O'Reilly people like that maybe knowing all this going on but keeping their viewers in the dark it would seem unless maybe they have no privy to higher things going on but I think they must for they know mostly what is going on with the companies they working for

 

[thebigt]

Bill O'Reilly people like that maybe knowing all this going on but keeping their viewers in the dark it would seem unless maybe they have no privy to higher things going on but I think they must for they know mostly what is going on with the companies they working for

bill o'reilly is just freaking out with his mainstream success, he is too busy pushing his books and coffee mugs to really care about much besides how fat his bank account is getting.

 

[Touey]

I will keep a close eye on this thread this is all very intriguing

 

[Admin]

That is hardly a red herring. It directly relates to the topic at hand. If anything the point of this thread is a red herring against the affordable healthcare act

By the way, me and my wife are both keeping are employer provided healthcare. If what your saying is true shouldnt we be loosing our healthcare? I work for the largest company in the city which subsequently employs a vast majority of residents and my wife works for a fairly small company. Wouldnt at least one of us be loosing our healthcare?

What many small business's are doing is dropping their group coverage, doing a group census of employees, determining eligibilty within the marketplace in your state and if the numbers are right, the employer kicks in a little, uncle sam gives the person a subsidy and you pay what you paid with the group policy....and in some cases nothing. It takes the burden off the employer, puts it on the individual, gives them flexibility, and everyone is happy.

 

[Admin]

I believe that the cut off is 30 full time employees for forced participation. Which means many small business' who had close to that either fired or down graded some employees to part time. I have a couple of friends who had that happen. Also bigger business have till 2015 to be in full compliance vs your every day American who has until the start of next year. John Stewart did a great interview with a rep for Obama Care and grilled the sh!t out of her. I believe this is nothing more than another tax. Forced compliance seems a lot like socialism to me. If it was an optional government service to utilize like the US postal service that would be something completely different.

Its 50 employees.

 

[thebigt]

What many small business's are doing is dropping their group coverage, doing a group census of employees, determining eligibilty within the marketplace in your state and if the numbers are right, the employer kicks in a little, uncle sam gives the person a subsidy and you pay what you paid with the group policy....and in some cases nothing. It takes the burden off the employer, puts it on the individual, gives them flexibility, and everyone is happy.

many carriers are dropping out...plus from state to state coverage and prices vary from reasonable to outrageous.

what happens when the federal subsidy goes away....after all it is the taxpayer who is taking over the cost that was traditionaly borne by employers, show me the money!!!

 

[Admin]

many carriers are dropping out...plus from state to state coverage and prices vary from reasonable to outrageous.

what happens when the federal subsidy goes away....after all it is the taxpayer who is taking over the cost that was traditionaly borne by employers, show me the money!!!

No its not. They can't charge you more than 9.5% of your gross income anyway. By law. They can't gouge you, they can't raise rates more than 10% in one calendar year. By law. If people would actually read it, they would know.

 

[ax1]

i truly believe business is responsible for obamacare.

As far as I know...the insurance companies actually wrote out most of Obamacare.

 

[Admin]

As far as I know...the insurance companies actually wrote out most of Obamacare.

I would rather they do it, than Congress.

 

[ax1]

I would rather they do it, than Congress.

I agree on the congress part...but insurance companies have a big incentive to write the law as well. My opinion there should be no law.

 

[Admin]

I've seen it help people already so I'm biased.

 

[ax1]

I've seen it help people already so I'm biased.

I understand...its helping people and its also hurting people. I wish it helped everybody.

 

[McCrew530]

Its 50 employees.

I know it was some where around there thank you.

 

[thebigt]

No its not. They can't charge you more than 9.5% of your gross income anyway. By law. They can't gouge you, they can't raise rates more than 10% in one calendar year. By law. If people would actually read it, they would know.

but what happens when the government realizes it can't afford to pay subsidies to offset the cost that employers were paying...where is this money going to come from?

 

[Admin]

I've seen it help more than hurt. I'm neck deep in it. Actually got people through Healthcare.gov...but you won't read or hear about that on the news. Its a boring story.

 

[Admin]

but what happens when the government realizes it can't afford to pay subsidies to offset the cost that employers were paying...where is this money going to come from?

If you look at the average subsidy cost per individual to those who qualify, it actually costs less than what the Bush tax cuts cost the government. The long term costs drop in roughly 5-7 years. The increase in revenue from the new customers that are forced into the system offsets the increase in benefits paid by the insurance companies. As with ALL insurance, its math.

 

[McCrew530]

No its not. They can't charge you more than 9.5% of your gross income anyway. By law. They can't gouge you, they can't raise rates more than 10% in one calendar year. By law. If people would actually read it, they would know.

Question since you seem to be in the know... If someone works for a large company that pays for its employees insurance. Is that person going to be forced to enroll in the new health care plan?

 

[thebigt]

If you look at the average subsidy cost per individual to those who qualify, it actually costs less than what the Bush tax cuts cost the government. The long term costs drop in roughly 5-7 years. The increase in revenue from the new customers that are forced into the system offsets the increase in benefits paid by the insurance companies. As with ALL insurance, its math.

but it seems the majority of currently uninsured will be doing much more taking than giving. and i know many now who get free healthcare from the government and they are the worse abusers of the system. people who haven't had healthcare in many years are going to have lots of needs/costs.

the only possible way this has a chance to work is to regulate healthcare cost, imo.

 

[Beau]

Over the past two weeks I have read numerous published reports (from legitimate sources) showing that in 45 out of 50 states premiums are SKYROCKETING. Conservatively (depending on age and state) these increases range from 35% to 156%, and under certain conditions can be much, much higher, and can have annual deductibles of approx. $4,000 per family member, per year.

But wait, President Soetoro told us that we would ALL save $2500 a year. The current projections are that it will cost most people an additional approx $7500 per year. That is a swing of $10,000.

Oh, and President Soetoro promised we would ALL get to keep our existing doctors. Sorry; that is not the truth.

And President Soetoro promised we would have the option of keeping our existing health care plan. Once again -- sorry; that is not the truth.

There is conclusive EVIDENCE that President Soetoro knew the federal websites would not work prior to the date they were deployed. He went ahead anyway. Details, details.

Maybe its just me, but in a short amount of time the promises that were made to "sell this to us" have all changed.

Imagine that - promises unfulfilled. Does that sound anything like Benghazi, the IRS scandle, Fast and Furious, and on, and on , and on.

I'm sure they'll try to blame that on Bush, too.

So much for transparency or personal responsibility.

 

[ax1]

but it seems the majority of currently uninsured will be doing much more taking than giving. and i know many now who get free healthcare from the government and they are the worse abusers of the system. people who haven't had healthcare in many years are going to have lots of needs/costs.

the only possible way this has a chance to work is to regulate healthcare cost, imo.

When someone forces you to pay for something, you wanna get something back. Also as taxes raise and regulations go up, there tends to be less giving. Think of how it was before goverment got their hands on the health care system, you can go to many clinics and if you had no money they would still love to help you.

Problem with regulating healthcare costs is there will be less incentives for people to work in the medical field.

 

[Touey]

Beau you also belief the big business, republicans, media all conspiring here?

 

[Admin]

Question since you seem to be in the know... If someone works for a large company that pays for its employees insurance. Is that person going to be forced to enroll in the new health care plan?

Only if the plan is not QHF...in other words, the plan sucks. If not and the employee contributes, no. But you are always forced into to what the employer wants to do....so in this sense, with the ACA you have a choice now. Stick with what your employere wants, or if he is forcing you into a ****yy plan and/or paying more than 9.5% of your gross income, you can leave and find other insurance AND qualify for a subsidy. As of now, a family of 4 earning 94k MAGI and under will get something.

 

[Admin]

When someone forces you to pay for something, you wanna get something back. Also as taxes raise and regulations go up, there tends to be less giving. Think of how it was before goverment got their hands on the health care system, you can go to many clinics and if you had no money they would still love to help you.

Problem with regulating healthcare costs is there will be less incentives for people to work in the medical field.

Actually more...you have more paying customers that are backed by the government. Its why most insurance companies are expanding in their local strongholds.

 

[Admin]

Over the past two weeks I have read numerous published reports (from legitimate sources) showing that in 45 out of 50 states premiums are SKYROCKETING. Conservatively (depending on age and state) these increases range from 35% to 156%, and under certain conditions can be much, much higher, and can have annual deductibles of approx. $4,000 per family member, per year.

But wait, President Soetoro told us that we would ALL save $2500 a year. The current projections are that it will cost most people an additional approx $7500 per year. That is a swing of $10,000.

Oh, and President Soetoro promised we would ALL get to keep our existing doctors. Sorry; that is not the truth.

And President Soetoro promised we would have the option of keeping our existing health care plan. Once again -- sorry; that is not the truth.

There is conclusive EVIDENCE that President Soetoro knew the federal websites would not work prior to the date they were deployed. He went ahead anyway. Details, details.

Maybe its just me, but in a short amount of time the promises that were made to "sell this to us" have all changed.

Imagine that - promises unfulfilled. Does that sound anything like Benghazi, the IRS scandle, Fast and Furious, and on, and on , and on.

I'm sure they'll try to blame that on Bush, too.

So much for transparency or personal responsibility.

There is so much wrong in this, I can't even comment. Its why normal people won't get the plain, boring truth about this.

 

[ax1]

Actually more...you have more paying customers that are backed by the government. Its why most insurance companies are expanding in their local strongholds.

How is the goverment backing anyone? They are forcing people to buy insurance, and they steal your hard earned income to back you with your own money they already took from you.

 

[Beau]

Beau you also belief the big business, republicans, media all conspiring here?

I believe big business is and should be in the job of maximizing profits/returns to shareholders; within moral and legal boundaries.

I believe the American media has a very heavy socially progressive spin. I do not believe there is a lot of objectivity in the media. Candidly, I believe the media has given the President a hall pass on many difficult issues. Regardless of which adminsitration is in place, the media should have an objective and even somewhat adversarial role, and drive difficult issues to closesure. Right now, with our instant, ADD-like communication, I believe the current adminsitration just delays the issues, and eventually most people just lose interest.

I believe the Republcans are pursuing the undefined objective and lack a cohesive position.

In short, I do not believe they are all conspiring together, but they don't seem to need to - because acting independently they are able to cause enough havic as it is.

 

[McCrew530]

There is so much wrong in this, I can't even comment. Its why normal people won't get the plain, boring truth about this.

Im almost positive I heard that exact rant on Rush Limbah like a week ago, or it may have been a Clip played on the Daily Show.

 

[Admin]

How is the goverment backing anyone? They are forcing people to buy insurance, and they steal your hard earned income to back you with your own money they already took from you.

The government is backing the subsidies being paid, which forces insurance companies to pay claims/benefits, as these people are now able to go to doctors SINCE they have insurance. When you force people to buy private insurance, backed by subsidies by the government, you have an increase in demand in the medical community....