Non-Normonal Stack: Phytotestosterone + ...

[anaboliko]

I got Primordial Performance's Phytotestosterone (which is not a t-booster) which has Testofen and 5-methyl-7methoxy isoflavone. I want to put together a non-hormonal stack for my next bulk. I was thinking about either X-factor advanced or E-bol with Phytotestosterone. I have used E-bol and I had very good results so I would be happy to use it again. But I wanted to know what you guys think, and if you have any other options that I'm not aware of please let me know! I'm looking for size mainly.

 

[Rosie Chee]

I got Primordial Performance's Phytotestosterone (which is not a t-booster) which has Testofen and 5-methyl-7methoxy isoflavone. I want to put together a non-hormonal stack for my next bulk. I was thinking about either X-factor advanced or E-bol with Phytotestosterone. I have used E-bol and I had very good results so I would be happy to use it again. But I wanted to know what you guys think, and if you have any other options that I'm not aware of please let me know! I'm looking for size mainly.

Why not stack it with a Growth Hormone and/or Testosterone booster? If you want muscle mass gains, then either FREE TEST or Activate Xtreme would be excellent additions to a stack, since they will both increase your FREE Testosterone (which is what you need for gains).

~Team APPNUT

 

[Killerkanadia]

Mass FX claims to be non-hormonal, but im not sure if that's really the case.

I was looking at Mass FX and E-bol for a non hormonal stack for myself.

 

[anaboliko]

Why not stack it with a Growth Hormone and/or Testosterone booster? If you want muscle mass gains, then either FREE TEST or Activate Xtreme would be excellent additions to a stack, since they will both increase your FREE Testosterone (which is what you need for gains).

~Team APPNUT

Hey Rosie, thanks for the answer. I'm actually taking those two now! We talked on bb.com about my response to HGHup (that it made me very drowsy) but I quit Keto and started using Hghup this week and now I'm good. I'm on my second bottle of Free Test, excellent product, I'm having an awesome cut. Fuller muscles, strength, libido through the roof and looking buff while eating 1800 calories! So that's why I was thinking of doing Phytotest, which mimicks test but it's not an actual test booster so I can cycle off Free Test at least for four weeks.

 

[Smitty77]

I got Primordial Performance's Phytotestosterone (which is not a t-booster) which has Testofen and 5-methyl-7methoxy isoflavone. I want to put together a non-hormonal stack for my next bulk. I was thinking about either X-factor advanced or E-bol with Phytotestosterone. I have used E-bol and I had very good results so I would be happy to use it again. But I wanted to know what you guys think, and if you have any other options that I'm not aware of please let me know! I'm looking for size mainly.

what did you mean by the bolded?

for other possible stacking options, you could employ an AI such as novedex or triazole.

 

[Killerkanadia]

He's in the same boat as me i am assuming. Just wants something to run durring the 4 weeks you're supposed to cycle off test boosters etc.

 

[anaboliko]

Mass FX claims to be non-hormonal, but im not sure if that's really the case.

I was looking at Mass FX and E-bol for a non hormonal stack for myself.

I'll look into it, why do you think it may not be non-hormonal?

 

[anaboliko]

what did you mean by the bolded?

for other possible stacking options, you could employ an AI such as novedex or triazole.

Well from what I have read, Testofen in Phytotestosterone increases bound testosterone but not free test and it mainly mimics testosterone. I emailed Primordial Performance to confirm this and this is exactly what they told me. Is this wrong?

 

[Rosie Chee]

Hey Rosie, thanks for the answer. I'm actually taking those two now! We talked on bb.com about my response to HGHup (that it made me very drowsy) but I quit Keto and started using Hghup this week and now I'm good. I'm on my second bottle of Free Test, excellent product, I'm having an awesome cut. Fuller muscles, strength, libido through the roof and looking buff while eating 1800 calories! So that's why I was thinking of doing Phytotest, which mimicks test but it's not an actual test booster so I can cycle off Free Test at least for four weeks.

No worries, bud Glad that you're seeing awesome results with FREE TEST - it really does deliver results. Not sure about the 1800 calories though - that's awfully low, and if you're quite active, TOO low (I would never even cut on something that low, and I am a lot smaller/lighter than you).

Technically, Phytotestosterone IS a Testosterone booster, but yes, it can be used when you cycle off FREE TEST. I do recommend after ~12 weeks of using Testosterone boosting products, to take a 4-week break, though.


~Team APPNUT

 

[Killerkanadia]

I'll look into it, why do you think it may not be non-hormonal?

Well for starters i can't really place most of the new ingredients and what they exactly do. Also, most websites don't discuss what the mechinism(s) of action are. All Nutraplanet says is this, but on another site i've read it mention testosterone and such.

Mass FX the Destroyer: Destroy All Your Barriers
In a recent clinical study conducted at Wright State University in OH, Mass FX users annihilated the placebo group after 6 weeks of training. When compared to the placebo group, Mass FX users averaged 134% more muscle growth, 800% greater strength on the bench press, 254% superior leg pressing power, and a raw 100% average increase over the placebo group in the king of all mass building exercises - the dead lift. And this clinical beast just got BIGGER!

NEW Mass FX continues to lead the industry by unleashing that “take charge, do anything, aggressive, strong, confident, dominant male leader of the pack” Alpha Male mentality, allowing users to DESTROY all of their personal records during EVERY workout. And for the first time users will experience a powerful synergistic clash between two pro-anabolic titans - clinically proven 25R-Diol and NEW 25R-X. So which World will you choose to reside within?

 

[anaboliko]

No worries, bud Glad that you're seeing awesome results with FREE TEST - it really does deliver results. Not sure about the 1800 calories though - that's awfully low, and if you're quite active, TOO low (I would never even cut on something that low, and I am a lot smaller/lighter than you).

Technically, Phytotestosterone IS a Testosterone booster, but yes, it can be used when you cycle off FREE TEST. I do recommend after ~12 weeks of using Testosterone boosting products, to take a 4-week break, though.


~Team APPNUT

I know 1800 is really low, but I feel great! I'm doing a bit of carb cycling. I put together this stack: EC stack+ green tea, Anabolic Pump and Free Test and HghUp. I limit my carbs to breakfast, pre and post workout and it's working great! On my higher carb days I eat 2000 calories.

 

[anaboliko]

Well for starters i can't really place most of the new ingredients and what they exactly do. Also, most websites don't discuss what the mechinism(s) of action are. All Nutraplanet says is this, but on another site i've read it mention testosterone and such.

Yeah, I just found the same when I googled it! Maybe someone can comment on this product?

 

[Rosie Chee]

I know 1800 is really low, but I feel great! I'm doing a bit of carb cycling. I put together this stack: EC stack+ green tea, Anabolic Pump and Free Test and HghUp. I limit my carbs to breakfast, pre and post workout and it's working great! On my higher carb days I eat 2000 calories.

If it works, fine, but I DO recommend going a lot highER on your higher calorie days, to at least Maintenance or bulking calories - the point of calorie/carbohydrate cycling is to have some days below and some days ABOVE Maintenance; if you're consistently BELOW Maintenance, then you need to be careful you're not TOO low or doing it for very long.

Yeah, I just found the same when I googled it! Maybe someone can comment on this product?

Why don't you just ask an AX rep? They should be the best qualified individuals to give you an answer on their products. Any time you want to know about a product, the fastest way to get an answer is to go TO the company that makes the product (and if you want feedback, look around at logs and reviews).

~Team APPNUT

 

[anaboliko]

If it works, fine, but I DO recommend going a lot highER on your higher calorie days, to at least Maintenance or bulking calories - the point of calorie/carbohydrate cycling is to have some days below and some days ABOVE Maintenance; if you're consistently BELOW Maintenance, then you need to be careful you're not TOO low or doing it for very long.

~Team APPNUT

Ok, thank you. I appreciate the advice. I'm on the last phase of the cut so I'm being ultra careful, my abs are starting to be visible and I don't want to screw up! I had a higher carb day yesterday and didn't put on any weight so next time I'll be more relaxed :veryhappy:

 

[Rosie Chee]

Ok, thank you. I appreciate the advice. I'm on the last phase of the cut so I'm being ultra careful, my abs are starting to be visible and I don't want to screw up! I had a higher carb day yesterday and didn't put on any weight so next time I'll be more relaxed :veryhappy:

Remember that WEIGHT is IRRELEVANT, and even if you gain a few pounds after a higher calorie/carbohydrate day, it's only from food and mostly water anyways, and will be gone in a few days.

~Team APPNUT

 

[anaboliko]

Remember that WEIGHT is IRRELEVANT, and even if you gain a few pounds after a higher calorie/carbohydrate day, it's only from food and mostly water anyways, and will be gone in a few days.

~Team APPNUT

Yeah I know that (but it's still scary). I actually 'only' lost 10 pounds but it certainly looks like I lost more, I attribute that to Free Test because I kept all my (if not put on) muscle.

 

[Killerkanadia]

Paging: T-AD

 

[T-AD]

Mass FX claims to be non-hormonal, but im not sure if that's really the case.

I was looking at Mass FX and E-bol for a non hormonal stack for myself.

Let me try to clarify something here, and jump in if you disagree...

"Non-hormonal" - does not affect hormone levels. Examples may include creatine, beta alanine, whey protein, etc.

"Hormonal" - affects hormone levels. Examples include test boosters, test modifiers (free test, etc.), AIs, PHs, DSs, AASs, etc.


When I see a thread asking for a non-hormonal, and the first sentence includes a product with the word "testosterone" in it, I want to smack myself in the face...only because I can't reach through the computer and smack someone else!! If it modifies hormone levels, in any way, then how can it be considered "non-hormonal"? To put it into the parlance of the common: FAIL

What you may be asking for here, OP, is a "natty" product. No, not "Natty Ice" (which sucks), but a hormonal product containing natural ingredients...as opposed to synthetic ones. (let the debate rage on elsewhere folks...)

IF that is the case, and you have low T, then a 'booster' might help, but only if you know what a test booster really is and which products out there are "boosters". MassFX was mentioned. It's not a "booster". It primarily modifies existing test to create free test. It unbinds the stuff you're making, forming a more useful version of test (there are more than one) that can be used for building muscle in your body. Similar products would be beneficial because it literally makes the best of a bad situation.

Another example would be an AI of some sort. All of the heavy AI hitters are pretty much gone nowadays, but take your pick of the litter and try one out sometime. They'll work to regulate estrogen levels in your body, lessening them and enabling what was to be estrogen to remain testosterone. No aromatization. (sp? never get that right...)

This concept, this stacking concept, is a 1-2 punch of "natty" products. I think this may be what you're after. If not, well it darn well should be!!!

Paging: T-AD

You rang?

 

[T-AD]

Yeah, I just found the same when I googled it! Maybe someone can comment on this product?

I can haz comments galore!!

Why don't you just ask an AX rep? They should be the best qualified individuals to give you an answer on their products. Any time you want to know about a product, the fastest way to get an answer is to go TO the company that makes the product (and if you want feedback, look around at logs and reviews).

~Team APPNUT

Thanks for the plug, Rosie! We're here if you need us. Ask anything you like, or hit the AX subforum to grab our attention faster. Or PM, or email, or AX home forum... any way, we'll help! Fire away.

Remember that WEIGHT is IRRELEVANT, ...

It's COMPOSITION that counts!!! Weight fluctuates daily, if not hourly. You weigh more one day than another, and one week than another. For a 200lb guy, losing 10lbs is great. For a 300lb guy, it's proportionally less! Take from a big dude...when it comes to weight loss, see it as "fat loss" instead. Work at it through diet and training, and let the mirror and the tape measure be your guide, not the scale. I'm currently sitting at around 310. I've been here many times before. I've been much higher, and I've been lower. But from a COMPOSITION standpoint, I'm at the 2nd best 310lb composition that I've ever been in. How do I know? I see it, I feel it, I measure it.

 

[adawg4929]

Generally when your talking about Homronals your talking about if the product contains a hormone or a pro-hormone. Generally testosterone boosters are considered NHA or Non-Hormonal Anabolics, basically you can intepert it however you want, however 90% of poeple talking about non-hormonal products are talking about products that do not contain active hormones or pro-hormones.

Both Mass FX and Hard-FX are non-hormonal anabolics, fall under the NHA, they will boost your testosterone, they will control estrogen, however they themselves contain no active or pro-hormones, so there non hormonal.

I guess it depends how you view it, but generally MassFX and all the like would be considered non hormonal.

 

[anaboliko]

Let me try to clarify something here, and jump in if you disagree...

"Non-hormonal" - does not affect hormone levels. Examples may include creatine, beta alanine, whey protein, etc.

"Hormonal" - affects hormone levels. Examples include test boosters, test modifiers (free test, etc.), AIs, PHs, DSs, AASs, etc.


When I see a thread asking for a non-hormonal, and the first sentence includes a product with the word "testosterone" in it, I want to smack myself in the face...only because I can't reach through the computer and smack someone else!! If it modifies hormone levels, in any way, then how can it be considered "non-hormonal"? To put it into the parlance of the common: FAIL

What you may be asking for here, OP, is a "natty" product. No, not "Natty Ice" (which sucks), but a hormonal product containing natural ingredients...as opposed to synthetic ones. (let the debate rage on elsewhere folks...)

IF that is the case, and you have low T, then a 'booster' might help, but only if you know what a test booster really is and which products out there are "boosters". MassFX was mentioned. It's not a "booster". It primarily modifies existing test to create free test. It unbinds the stuff you're making, forming a more useful version of test (there are more than one) that can be used for building muscle in your body. Similar products would be beneficial because it literally makes the best of a bad situation.

Another example would be an AI of some sort. All of the heavy AI hitters are pretty much gone nowadays, but take your pick of the litter and try one out sometime. They'll work to regulate estrogen levels in your body, lessening them and enabling what was to be estrogen to remain testosterone. No aromatization. (sp? never get that right...)

This concept, this stacking concept, is a 1-2 punch of "natty" products. I think this may be what you're after. If not, well it darn well should be!!!


You rang?

Well, thanks for the info. When I said non-hormonal I don't think it was a FAIL. Someone else already explained this below, I was referring to products that are not PHs or roids. And you knew what I meant!
Do you recommend any particular AI? Any you have tried?

 

[Killerkanadia]

You rang?

You pretty much covered it boss. But i will throw out a situation.

Say i've (or the OP) been on a natural test boosting product for 8 weeks, and now it's time for my 4 week period for my body to normalize. Naturally, i'm looking for a supplement that will allow me to get back to ground zero.

Would MassFX be something that fits that? As stated on the directions, MassFx has to be cycled off every 8 weeks anyways, but i don't know if that means i could jump right back on another product. IE Pink magic.

Could i run say Trifecta with PCT--->MassFX---->Pink Magic

Or would i still need a break in there?

 

[adawg4929]

You pretty much covered it boss. But i will throw out a situation.

Say i've (or the OP) been on a natural test boosting product for 8 weeks, and now it's time for my 4 week period for my body to normalize. Naturally, i'm looking for a supplement that will allow me to get back to ground zero.

Would MassFX be something that fits that? As stated on the directions, MassFx has to be cycled off every 8 weeks anyways, but i don't know if that means i could jump right back on another product. IE Pink magic.

Could i run say Trifecta with PCT--->MassFX---->Pink Magic

Or would i still need a break in there?

No Mass FX would not fit in there, because Mass FX is a natural test booster aswell.

So going from 1 natural test booster for 8 weeks to mass fx(another test booster) doesnt really make any sense. Just with any other testosterone booster, after 8 weeks on Mass FX you must take atleast a 4 week break from all Test boosting/estrogen manipulating supplements..

You would definitly need a break in there.

 

[T-AD]

Well, thanks for the info. When I said non-hormonal I don't think it was a FAIL. Someone else already explained this below, I was referring to products that are not PHs or roids. And you knew what I meant!
Do you recommend any particular AI? Any you have tried?

I always have a recommendation! Unfortunately, in the past few months, I've only tried a few products. (Personal issues, fine-tuning, new product testing and whatnot has limited me this year.) I'll throw the name "HardFX" out there as a very very very viable option for you. And with that, I won't pimp. But you could look into it, if you wish.

You pretty much covered it boss. But i will throw out a situation.

Say i've (or the OP) been on a natural test boosting product for 8 weeks, and now it's time for my 4 week period for my body to normalize. Naturally, i'm looking for a supplement that will allow me to get back to ground zero.

Would MassFX be something that fits that? As stated on the directions, MassFx has to be cycled off every 8 weeks anyways, but i don't know if that means i could jump right back on another product. IE Pink magic.

Could i run say Trifecta with PCT--->MassFX---->Pink Magic

Or would i still need a break in there?

And that's pretty much a great example of what I was talking about - misinformation. MassFX would NOT be something to throw into your "off season" between cycles. It does involve hormones, and it does modify them, which is why I personally consider it to be a 'hormonal product'.

When you are on something that requires cycling off, the general rule of thumb is time on = time off. Some things you may get away with the 8 on, 4 off deal, but I believe it's best to be patient and let the body return to baseline by itself. Do your cycle, do your PCT, then save money and buy better food. During that "off" time, which isn't an option by the way, don't even look at anything that you think I might consider to be "hormonal". Forget it! Instead, go back to absolute basics - creatine and the like.

The "off" part of the cycle can't be skipped, else you risk running into serious damage to yourself. Trust me, you've got time to experiment. Just don't plan on running 10 cycles every year and think you'll be just fine! You won't.

If anything, go with your Trifecta ---PCT w/ MassFX ----equal period off ---do something else. Timeframe-wise, if you are on Trifecta + PCT for 8 weeks, then the time off is 8 weeks.

Make sense?

Edit: Yeah, what Aaron said right above this post. Nice job, A-man.

Peace! I'm out. :head:

 

[Killerkanadia]

Duely noted, thanks fellas.

 

[anaboliko]

no one said anything about X-factor Advanced or E-bol. You don't think they would be a good idea?

 

[adawg4929]

no one said anything about X-factor Advanced or E-bol. You don't think they would be a good idea?

those are both great options that dont effect either testosterone or estrogen, you can run these inbetween testosterone boosters however i would still think about taking a comletle break off all supplements like that to give your body a chance to make gains naturally with no help.

 

[T-AD]

This whole "I NEED TO TAKE SOMETHING" mentality is really a lack of discipline, and I don't like it. Going supplement free for a while really enables your body to right itself, and enables you to see what you're actually capable of unassisted. Think of it this way... If ALL supps were taken off the market and we were stuck with good ol' train/eat/sleep to rely on, how would you feel about yourself? Would you have the confidence to keep going to the gym and press on? Or would your confidence be so shot that you give it all up and become these guys:

 

[anaboliko]

This whole "I NEED TO TAKE SOMETHING" mentality is really a lack of discipline, and I don't like it. Going supplement free for a while really enables your body to right itself, and enables you to see what you're actually capable of unassisted. Think of it this way... If ALL supps were taken off the market and we were stuck with good ol' train/eat/sleep to rely on, how would you feel about yourself? Would you have the confidence to keep going to the gym and press on? Or would your confidence be so shot that you give it all up and become these guys:



Whose mentality are you talking about here? This is a supplement forum, if you disagree with taking supplements skip my post. I NEVER said anything about 'I need to take something or I won't progress', that's your own interpretation.

 

[HATEFULone]

I've used phytotest with tcf 1 and liked the cycle, others guys have stacked testofen products with glycobol and had great results lean bulking.

 

[Robboe]

Phytotest would stack well with Activate Xtreme.

 

[T-AD]

Whose mentality are you talking about here? This is a supplement forum, if you disagree with taking supplements skip my post. I NEVER said anything about 'I need to take something or I won't progress', that's your own interpretation.

Woah! Simmer down, fella! This is a supplement forum, with an associated supplement store, and I work for a supplement company!! My post was a generalization, put out there because I see this mentality happen ALL THE TIME, particularly with folks new to supplementation.

I never meant offense with the post, but I did mean the strong words as advice to all those who fall into that category. Yes, I am a supplement "rep" who is advising you NOT to use supplements all the time. Counterintuitive to business, but who cares? Well, I do, and that's why I said it!!

 

[adawg4929]

T-AD was jsut mentioning you dont want to become dependent on supplements. The only reason he said that was because someone else was talking about trying to add supplements in during a break from testosterone boosters, its a very viable option but at the same time allowing your body to come off everything and make gains naturally without any assitance would likley benifit the user in the long run.

Anyway everything named ehre is a good chocie, Mass FX, X-Factor, E-bol, Primordials products, there all great choices, jsut need to narrow it down to which your most interested in. Let us know if you have any more questions, doesnt have to be AX related for us to help ya!

 

[HATEFULone]

I'll attest to that, the first time I did test right after the cycle really f'd my mind set up, felt like I couldn't train while not on anything.

 

[anaboliko]

Woah! Simmer down, fella! This is a supplement forum, with an associated supplement store, and I work for a supplement company!! My post was a generalization, put out there because I see this mentality happen ALL THE TIME, particularly with folks new to supplementation.

I never meant offense with the post, but I did mean the strong words as advice to all those who fall into that category. Yes, I am a supplement "rep" who is advising you NOT to use supplements all the time. Counterintuitive to business, but who cares? Well, I do, and that's why I said it!!

Ok, no problem! I understand what you say, it's just not my case. I did the BET stack and I took two months off where I didn't take anything other than creatine. And I am going to cycle off supps after my cut is finished for a month to let everything go back to normal, I'm looking for info because I'm new to the supps world and I'm pretty serious about it so I'm always looking to learn.

 

[anaboliko]

T-AD was jsut mentioning you dont want to become dependent on supplements. The only reason he said that was because someone else was talking about trying to add supplements in during a break from testosterone boosters, its a very viable option but at the same time allowing your body to come off everything and make gains naturally without any assitance would likley benifit the user in the long run.

Anyway everything named ehre is a good chocie, Mass FX, X-Factor, E-bol, Primordials products, there all great choices, jsut need to narrow it down to which your most interested in. Let us know if you have any more questions, doesnt have to be AX related for us to help ya!

Thanks man, as I said this is not for right now since I still have 4/3 weeks on my cut and then I will take some time off supps to let my body adapt and stay lean. I think I will try Erase, the estrogen blocker that is about to come out. I've never taken one and some people suggested a product like that would be beneficial.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Phytotest, Mass Addiction, and TCF-1

 

[anaboliko]

Phytotest, Mass Addiction, and TCF-1

This sounds like a killer stack! Def worth considering, thank you! How does Mass Addiction compare to E-bol? I see it also has Ecdysterone

 

[Killerkanadia]

This sounds like a killer stack! Def worth considering, thank you! How does Mass Addiction compare to E-bol? I see it also has Ecdysterone

Mass addiction is good, i've used it in the past. I haven't used Ebol but i am going to use it in the future. Mass addiction is nice addiction to a test stack because it has Trans-Resveratrol, Tribulus, 3,4-Divanillytetrahhydrofuan.

Honestly though, if you were already going to have phytotest and tcf-1, i would probably go with ebol.

 

[anaboliko]

Mass addiction is good, i've used it in the past. I haven't used Ebol but i am going to use it in the future. Mass addiction is nice addiction to a test stack because it has Trans-Resveratrol, Tribulus, 3,4-Divanillytetrahhydrofuan.

Honestly though, if you were already going to have phytotest and tcf-1, i would probably go with ebol.

Yeah I think it would be too many products of the same kind, since Mass Addiction also boosts testosterone. I have used E-bol and I loved it.

 

[JN230]

Phytotest, Mass Addiction, and TCF-1

wow great stack man
increased testosterone from the tetsofen, more nitrogen retention from the methoxyisolflavone, and the ecdysterone in mass addiction, sex-hormone binding globulin management from the divanil in mass addiction, increased test levels form the d-aspartic acid, and insulin management from the banaba in the mass addicition <

good idea bro!!!:deal:

 

[anaboliko]

wow great stack man
increased testosterone from the tetsofen, more nitrogen retention from the methoxyisolflavone, and the ecdysterone in mass addiction, sex-hormone binding globulin management from the divanil in mass addiction, increased test levels form the d-aspartic acid, and insulin management from the banaba in the mass addicition <

good idea bro!!!:deal:

If I decide to run TCF1, how many bottles should I run? one or two?

 

[HATEFULone]

If I decide to run TCF1, how many bottles should I run? one or two?

Initially pp said only do 12 on 12 off, but I ran a full 36 days straight and loved it, no shutdown, no side effects, and my ast, alt, alk phos, creatinine, and bun were all within normal after so no major effects of liver or kidneys. I'd say run atleast 24 days but if its on sale get 2 bottles of tcf 1 and run it either 24 days each time with something to bridge or just straight through for 48, I wouldn't run it for longer than 2 bottles though without a break.