new formestane product

[neoborn]

Sooner is good, one might say the sooner the better.:rant:

Sooner?

 

[warnerve]

Great meetings this weekend. Looks like we might have material sooner than we thought, and with a nice structural surprise that MIGHT just make this even more effective than we first designed.

:dance::head::djparty:

 

[thebigt]

Great meetings this weekend. Looks like we might have material sooner than we thought, and with a nice structural surprise that MIGHT just make this even more effective than we first designed.

i know that for a oral dose dinoii recommends a gram ed, how much are you going to be able to cut from that? maybe 4 average sized caps...the buzz has started, people are starting to get antsy-well i am anyways.

 

[EasyEJL]

well, and thats a gram of "not ether" so its taking into account liver degradation.

how much longer matt?

 

[dsade]

Hypothetical absorption from a NONether oral is purported to be in single digits (amount ingested - amount degraded by the liver = amount actually making it intact into the bloodstream.)

Right now we are waiting on a few reagents to finalize the synthesis.

 

[dsade]

i know that for a oral dose dinoii recommends a gram ed, how much are you going to be able to cut from that? maybe 4 average sized caps...the buzz has started, people are starting to get antsy-well i am anyways.

I am thinking that we should be able to get away nicely with 25-50mg caps, one per day.

Remember also, the unknown here is how quickly can he body REsynthesize aromatase (this will be one of the first studies RPN is going to fund with profits from this product) - given that both Form and 6-OXO are suicide (irreversible) inhibitors.

We might find out that a dosage of 25mg (effective dose) 3 times a week is sufficient to lower estrogen to optimal levels. You do not want to completely eliminate it.

 

[thebigt]

I am thinking that we should be able to get away nicely with 25-50mg caps, one per day.

Remember also, the unknown here is how quickly can he body REsynthesize aromatase (this will be one of the first studies RPN is going to fund with profits from this product) - given that both Form and 6-OXO are suicide (irreversible) inhibitors.

We might find out that a dosage of 25mg (effective dose) 3 times a week is sufficient to lower estrogen to optimal levels. You do not want to completely eliminate it.

that sounds optimal for long term use at that dosage, like the old saying-might not add years to your life, but add life to your years. L:rofl:L

 

[pistonpump]

25-50mg orally a day? compared to 100mg+ transdermally? I thought transdermal was more effective at delivery....are you saying this method your are using for the oral formestane has better bioavailabilty than transdermal?

If so then im skeptical.

 

[thebigt]

25-50mg orally a day? compared to 100mg+ transdermally? I thought transdermal was more effective at delivery....are you saying this method your are using for the oral formestane has better bioavailabilty than transdermal?

If so then im skeptical.

its good to be skeptical, but if dsade pulls this off it's supplement of the decade. skeptical yes, but i am excited as hell to give it a go.

 

[dsade]

25-50mg orally a day? compared to 100mg+ transdermally? I thought transdermal was more effective at delivery....are you saying this method your are using for the oral formestane has better bioavailabilty than transdermal?

If so then im skeptical.

There is no data to compare the two. Transdermal yields average around 20-25% availability (best case 30)...so running 100mg a day would give you around 25-30mg active. If this is even 40-50% bioavailable (and if it is being picked up lymphatically, completely bypassing first pass through the liver, then it should be higher) then it would be equal without the hassle of transdermal.

Until I get material here to try out this is all hypothetical.

 

[PumpDogg]

Sub'd

I am very interested in this as well.. Looking forward to it Dsade

 

[dsade]

I can assure you this...I will NOT put out an overpriced/underdosed product just to make money.

All of the products we have put out have been well-designed/reasonably priced (which translates to low margin).

 

[3clipseGT]

I can assure you this...I will NOT put out an overpriced/underdosed product just to make money.

All of the products we have put out have been well-designed/reasonably priced (which translates to low margin).

I agree, never had a problem, great products, great prices!

 

[dsade]

I agree, never had a problem, great products, great prices!

Oops....never finished my sentence.

Low margin, but we would rely on reputation and product satisfaction to eventually bring success.

 

[3clipseGT]

Oops....never finished my sentence.

Low margin, but we would rely on reputation and product satisfaction to eventually bring success.

Which i definately beleive is on its way for you and crader. :head:

 

[Trauma1]

Which i definately beleive is on its way for you and crader. :head:

Agreed!

 

[thebigt]

Oops....never finished my sentence.

Low margin, but we would rely on reputation and product satisfaction to eventually bring success.

2010: rpn super-supplement megaform voted supplement of the decade. we are told the owners of rpn were too busy filling orders to comment.:thumbsup:

 

[poopypants]

I am thinking that we should be able to get away nicely with 25-50mg caps, one per day.

Remember also, the unknown here is how quickly can he body REsynthesize aromatase (this will be one of the first studies RPN is going to fund with profits from this product) - given that both Form and 6-OXO are suicide (irreversible) inhibitors.

We might find out that a dosage of 25mg (effective dose) 3 times a week is sufficient to lower estrogen to optimal levels. You do not want to completely eliminate it.

This follows the same conversation we were having with ATD as well eh?

Really let me thank you ahead of time if you guys pull offf this study for the measuring of aromatase re-synthisis.... this would be so benificial for using AI's in general, you are the man Dsade.

I was not a fan of E-form from dermabolics the first time i tried it mainly cause it was when SD was giving me Itchy nips and two bottles of it taken on and through pct didnt stop the gyno from forming.... made me a lil upset but I think it was unstopable with how I react to SD... so maybe once this is out Ill give form another try... maybe this will be out within a month or two so I can take it throughout my 4-AD and phera cycle instead of Adex???

 

[poopypants]

25-50mg orally a day? compared to 100mg+ transdermally? I thought transdermal was more effective at delivery....are you saying this method your are using for the oral formestane has better bioavailabilty than transdermal?

If so then im skeptical.

you need to read up on ether gels then and see what its done for similar products in the past like 4-AD and many others, his claims are completely in line....

It really is MUCH better then transderm but not quite as good as methylating... the great thing is unlike methylating something it wont change the end effects, you methylate something and you can totally change the compounds effects and nature. (ie bold and Dbol)

 

[poopypants]

I can assure you this...I will NOT put out an overpriced/underdosed product just to make money.

All of the products we have put out have been well-designed/reasonably priced (which translates to low margin).

this is a good policy to have though.. although you may make a quick buck off hype you can actually destroy an entire labels line up if you put out a bomb, its better to hold off and make sure its great then to tarnish the great name youve built up for RPN :thumbsup:

Im sure though you wont let us down, you do great work Dsade.

 

[thebigt]

This follows the same conversation we were having with ATD as well eh?

Really let me thank you ahead of time if you guys pull offf this study for the measuring of aromatase re-synthisis.... this would be so benificial for using AI's in general, you are the man Dsade.

I was not a fan of E-form from dermabolics the first time i tried it mainly cause it was when SD was giving me Itchy nips and two bottles of it taken on and through pct didnt stop the gyno from forming.... made me a lil upset but I think it was unstopable with how I react to SD... so maybe once this is out Ill give form another try... maybe this will be out within a month or two so I can take it throughout my 4-AD and phera cycle instead of Adex???

i am glad to see you are keeping an open mind about formestane, i know you were pretty down on it. :thumbsup:

 

[celc5]

you need to read up on ether gels then and see what its done for similar products in the past like 4-AD and many others, his claims are completely in line....

It really is MUCH better then transderm but not quite as good as methylating... the great thing is unlike methylating something it wont change the end effects, you methylate something and you can totally change the compounds effects and nature. (ie bold and Dbol)

Did 4-OH-test ever have an ether attached? If so, how did that effect dosing? I'm pretty sure the 4-oh dosing was really close to typical formestane dosing both oral and transdermal.

Dsade, why has no one done this before? A while back there were a handful of oral formestane products that were quite popular, even though they were underdosed IMO.

 

[skull]

while Im waiting for NP to come out with their product,Im gonna try an experiment of my own suppose you were able to put formestane in an "enteric coated cap" what would an effective dosage be?200mg? And how would such rate against an acetate or ether

 

[BodyWizard]

Ohhhh shiit. :lol:

Touche, my friend.

Say, what's the story w/ Rebirth?
I bought a bunch at the moving sale, but it hasn't been around since - Par hiding from a crazy ex-girlfriend?

 

[dsade]

Did 4-OH-test ever have an ether attached? If so, how did that effect dosing? I'm pretty sure the 4-oh dosing was really close to typical formestane dosing both oral and transdermal.

Dsade, why has no one done this before? A while back there were a handful of oral formestane products that were quite popular, even though they were underdosed IMO.

Not sure about the 4-OH, but as to why nobody has done this before I have no idea.

Orals will always be more popular than other delivery systems, due to convenience, but I think the popularity of the other products was due to power of suggestion. A straight oral (non-ether) would simply have too low of an absorption rate to be economical.

 

[skull]

Not sure about the 4-OH, but as to why nobody has done this before I have no idea.

Orals will always be more popular than other delivery systems, due to convenience, but I think the popularity of the other products was due to power of suggestion. A straight oral (non-ether) would simply have too low of an absorption rate to be economical.

So your saying even if you get the compound past the stomach,past the liver ,[enteric coating] to the small intestine.It will not increase absorption?[because the compound inside the cap does not have an -ether]?

 

[dsade]

So your saying even if you get the compound past the stomach,past the liver ,[enteric coating] to the small intestine.It will not increase absorption?[because the compound inside the cap does not have an -ether]?

Correct. Lymphatic absorption is meant for super lipophyllic compounds and fatty acids. The ether allows the compound to be taken up by the lymphs, which then dump the intact compound straight into the bloodstream, avoiding first pass metabolism by the liver.

 

[skull]

Correct. Lymphatic absorption is meant for super lipophyllic compounds and fatty acids. The ether allows the compound to be taken up by the lymphs, which then dump the intact compound straight into the bloodstream, avoiding first pass metabolism by the liver.

Ok , say someone was to add a suitable [oil-ether] to the compound then put it in a [entric coated cap] then we have something worth using? [be back later]

 

[dsade]

Ok , say someone was to add a suitable [oil-ether] to the compound then put it in a [entric coated cap] then we have something worth using? [be back later]

The ether has to be bonded to the formestane, then the whole thing dissolved in oil.

 

[thebigt]

when do you expect to have a first run out?

 

[dsade]

when do you expect to have a first run out?

Production will only take about a week, so it all depends on how soon the material is ready.

 

[rpen22]

Say, what's the story w/ Rebirth?
I bought a bunch at the moving sale, but it hasn't been around since - Par hiding from a crazy ex-girlfriend?

As far as I know, there are no plans to bring the LeptiGens back unfortunately. The closest thing right now is SyntheSIZE+Glucosamine for a homemade LeptiGen Mass.

And yeah, whatever Par's been up to lately, it's been keeping him quite busy.

 

[skull]

The ether has to be bonded to the formestane, then the whole thing dissolved in oil.

sorry to be so lagging in my chemistry[ I find this very interesting] but isnt the reason your putting "form"in a cap because its so hard to disolve in oil?--I tried but it kept crashing.

 

[dsade]

sorry to be so lagging in my chemistry[ I find this very interesting] but isnt the reason your putting "form"in a cap because its so hard to disolve in oil?--I tried but it kept crashing.

Adding an ether group changes the solubilty in oil. Ethers make the parent compound super lipophilic, and the whole solution is taken up lymphatically.

What you did kept crashing because it is not lipophyllic enough as-is.

 

[celc5]

Another question for Dsade... you're saying the ether will increase 1/2 life to the point you'll only need to take it 3x/week? Am I misunderstanding something? That's a pretty big difference to the typical 4 hour 1/2 life with oral form.

 

[dsade]

Another question for Dsade... you're saying the ether will increase 1/2 life to the point you'll only need to take it 3x/week? Am I misunderstanding something? That's a pretty big difference to the typical 4 hour 1/2 life with oral form.

Not the half-life....but this is where we run into hypothesis.

Formestane is a suicide aromatase inhibitor. Say by taking a large effective dose, you are able to knock out 75% of circulating aromatase in the body. Now, this is irreversible and the only way the aromatase can raise back up is that the body has to synthesize NEW enzyme.

How long does it take to get levels back up? Nobody knows (and this is going to be one of the first studies we are going to fund) how long it takes.

Now, you don't want to wipe it out 100%...only significantly reduce it. Given an effective product at high enough dosage, we are thinking that you should be able to dose every other day.

Again, forgive the lack of knowledge...nobody knows.

 

[celc5]

Yup, I'm in agreement with all of those statements and your theory does make sense. Good call on the 1/2 life, I guess we'd be more concerned with active life. Seems to be the consensus that formestane usually stays active for around 20 weeks. Will the ether change that?

Also, no reason to apologize. I bang my head against a wall every time I'm searching for research on AI's. Population and dosages make most of the studies I find practically useless.

Do you believe it will require a front load? I bet this is something that you'll have to decide after running your study, correct?

 

[dsade]

Yup, I'm in agreement with all of those statements and your theory does make sense. Good call on the 1/2 life, I guess we'd be more concerned with active life. Seems to be the consensus that formestane usually stays active for around 20 weeks. Will the ether change that?

Also, no reason to apologize. I bang my head against a wall every time I'm searching for research on AI's. Population and dosages make most of the studies I find practically useless.

Do you believe it will require a front load? I bet this is something that you'll have to decide after running your study, correct?

I think a front load might be a good idea.

The study will ultimately give us some very valuable info to work with, especially since this is a pretty unaddressed aspect of HRT and life enhancement.

 

[Mr.50]

DSADE,

How do you think this product will compare to other AIs in terms of boosting test production rather then just the ability to lower estrogen (of course they are directly related but.....)? Will it likely have a better effect then say 6-Oxo, etc.?

Thanks.

Mr.50

 

[dsade]

tough call. Formestane is supposed to have intrinsic activity of its own, and imparts a VERY potent sense of well-being that I believe transcends simple estrogen inhibition.

 

[3clipseGT]

tough call. Formestane is supposed to have intrinsic activity of its own, and imparts a VERY potent sense of well-being that I believe transcends simple estrogen inhibition.

This is the part im also really looking forward to. The sense of well-being everyone talks about!

 

[dsade]

This is the part im also really looking forward to. The sense of well-being everyone talks about!

It really needs to be experienced to be believed. No rush of aggression, no stress, no BP issues...just a good clean "healthy" feeling complete with a boosted libido.

 

[Mr.50]

This is the part im also really looking forward to. The sense of well-being everyone talks about!

My sentiments exactly! DSADE you gave me the exact information I was looking for. The "well being", alpha male, high on life feeling is exactly what I am looking for.

Mr.50

 

[poopypants]

Im really hoping this makes formastane orally economical... Ill already be pushin it enough when I start a 4-ad trans cycle this spring havin a baby n all and Id really like to give form another chance with all the hubbub goin on bout it.

Should be a good choice anyhow for an experiement like this considering the other AI's are widely used in other products and form has such a big following right now with very few comps supplying it.

 

[dsade]

Im really hoping this makes formastane orally economical... Ill already be pushin it enough when I start a 4-ad trans cycle this spring havin a baby n all and Id really like to give form another chance with all the hubbub goin on bout it.

Should be a good choice anyhow for an experiement like this considering the other AI's are widely used in other products and form has such a big following right now with very few comps supplying it.

Ahh...last thing you want is another trans to run with a new baby around.

Timing is really harsh on this, as a lot of the intermediates are being STRONGLY controlled due to the upcoming olympics.

 

[poopypants]

Ahh...last thing you want is another trans to run with a new baby around.

Timing is really harsh on this, as a lot of the intermediates are being STRONGLY controlled due to the upcoming olympics.

So getting the raws is difficult is what your saying?

N ya for the 4-AD Im going to have to use only my legs to dose since I wear pants for work anyways and will have to sleep in pajamas even though it will be hot by then in socal so my wife doesnt get any contact in bed.... not like theres much cantact anywho :ntome:

 

[dsade]

N ya for the 4-AD Im going to have to use only my legs to dose since I wear pants for work anyways and will have to sleep in pajamas even though it will be hot by then in socal so my wife doesnt get any contact in bed.... not like theres much cantact anywho :ntome:

there must have been SOME contact if there is a new baby.

 

[3clipseGT]

It really needs to be experienced to be believed. No rush of aggression, no stress, no BP issues...just a good clean "healthy" feeling complete with a boosted libido.

Definately what im looking for!

 

[poopypants]

there must have been SOME contact if there is a new baby.

LOL believe me there was plenty.... fact is shes not as up with her physique still not back to prebaby stats, but were workin on it.

 

[neoborn]

Please accept my official request to be a tester for this product