My First Post, First Log, First Cycle (Epi / Tren)

[ZoomZoom88]

I wanna give that new Liqui-drone stuff a try. But i also wanna get my feet wet with some AAS. I cant seem to find a good source tho.

 

[ZoomZoom88]

I am running 30 epi 90 tren... I am super tempted to bump the epi to 40 due to my lack of sides and the fact that many other members have run 40 successfully. I am resisting the urge since I only have one bottle of it and it will screw up the stack.

If i was you i would bump it up to 40mgs of epi, sides permitting.

 

[beejman]

Bodyweight 212 this AM...

Today was back day, and I had to get the workout in early this morning, which is not my typical schedule, because I had to get my ass to Staples Center to watch Laker domination!

Pullups - 4 sets 10, 10, 8, 6
DB Rows - 95 x 10, 100 x 10, 105 x 8, 110 x 8
close grip pulldowns - 3 sets of 8-10, then a burnout set of 15 with lighter weight
Deadlifts - warmup, 225 x 10, 275 x 8, 315 x 6, 365 x 4 (P.R.)

was planning on finishing up with some seated cable rows but back pumps were crushing me during and after deadlifts, to the point that I had to find a corner of the gym and lay down - I am at 4 caps of Taurine (1,000mg each) per day, and drinking a ton of water. Looking back over my log, this seems to only be hitting me on back days, so I will just have to live with it.

I have been feeling a little more "shut down" lately, the boys seem a bit less "energized". I am more than likely going to use my SERM (Toremifene citrate) just to be safe as PCT, probably at a low dose in tandem with AI's PCS and Formex and just dump the reversitol altogether - unless I start feeling differently between now and then.

 

[beejman]

today is day 20 of 30 by the way....

 

[beejman]

Bodyweight 213

Did shoulders and arms today...

highlights of workout were DB military presses worked up to 90 x 7

fairly standard arm workout - barbell curls, skullcrushers superset with dumbell curls, weighted dips superset with cable curls.

felt good in the gym. I have a bit of lower back tightness left over from yesterdays PR in deadlift, and am walking a little funny as a result.

 

[beejman]

As I mentioned before, I have decided to include the SERM (torem) in PCT after all... I am looking for feedback on PCT outlined below, looking to firm it up. PCT is 4 weeks, dosages are as follows preliminarily... really looking for some input, even if it is just " yeah, this looks good, stop worrying dumbass"

TOREMIFENE CITRATE - 120 / 90 / 60 / 30 (taper 30 every other day the last few days)
AI Post Cycle Support - 0 / 2 caps / 3 caps / 4 caps
IBE FORMEX - 0 / 1 cap / 2 caps / 2 caps /
Lean Xtreme (for cortisol control) 0 / manufacturer instructions rest of PCT


The basic idea is SERM by itself for the first week at a relatively high dose to get things moving, then slowly ramp UP the AIs while ramping down the SERM. The Lean Xtreme added in at week 2 since I have read many reports citing the peak of cortisol around this time.

In addition to this, I will keep calories and macros constant and add back in creatine mono and beta-alanine in PCT. NOTE - I also have reversitol on hand, and could use this in place of the formex / PCS combo, but I have been reading some really negative things lately about ATD in PCT, and even though reversitol is packing a reportedly low dose of ATD, I am thinking I should stick with the Post Cycle Support and the Formex as my AIs...

Thoughts?

 

[beejman]

Today is off day, bodyweight 213.

any feedback on the PCT protocol listed above?

 

[Harland]

Today is off day, bodyweight 213.

any feedback on the PCT protocol listed above?

the nolva looks good, wont protect against the prolactin type gyno tren could possibly induce, as far as I know. But you should be alright, you might have a little bit of overkill. dont expect to be ready for sex during pct.

 

[beejman]

thanks... I am continuing Vitex (3 caps per day) during cycle and PCT for prolactin control. I am actually not using nolva... decided on torem (see above) for a variety of reasons. thanks for the feedback...

 

[Harland]

thanks... I am continuing Vitex (3 caps per day) during cycle and PCT for prolactin control. I am actually not using nolva... decided on torem (see above) for a variety of reasons. thanks for the feedback...

i feel out of the loop... what is the difference between Tamoxifen citrate(nolvadex) and TOREMIFENE CITRATE?

 

[beejman]

just search "toremifene pct" here and on google... there are many other threads that do a MUCH better job of outlining the science than I could do here. Torem is a derivitive of tamox and reported less sides, easier on lipid profile, less liver toxicity, etc.

 

[Harland]

just search "toremifene pct" here and on google... there are many other threads that do a MUCH better job of outlining the science than I could do here. Torem is a derivitive of tamox and reported less sides, easier on lipid profile, less liver toxicity, etc.

**** you learn something new everyday. I already god a good amount of nolva, so i guess next time around ill check it out, thanks man.

 

[beejman]

Bodyweight 213 this morning...

Another day, Another P.R.

almost skipped my workout today, had a late night with my 4 month old, and was super tired today, took an afternoon nap and woke up groggy. Forced myself to get to the gym anyway...

won't bore you with the details of every set... but here are 2 new P.Rs from today:

285 x 4 in Flat Barbell Bench Press (fourth rep was a bit uneven, reached lockout on left arm first and felt a bit of an uneven shoulder stability, but no spotter needed)

105's x 6 in incline DB press (these were super clean and strict, felt awesome)

No sides whatsoever from the cycle other than the reduced libido. I am less than 10 days out from PCT and starting to dread being "off" because I am loving these strength gains so much. I will run a super careful PCT to keep as much as possible.

 

[Harland]

Bodyweight 213 this morning...

Another day, Another P.R.

almost skipped my workout today, had a late night with my 4 month old, and was super tired today, took an afternoon nap and woke up groggy. Forced myself to get to the gym anyway...

won't bore you with the details of every set... but here are 2 new P.Rs from today:

285 x 4 in Flat Barbell Bench Press (fourth rep was a bit uneven, reached lockout on left arm first and felt a bit of an uneven shoulder stability, but no spotter needed)

105's x 6 in incline DB press (these were super clean and strict, felt awesome)

No sides whatsoever from the cycle other than the reduced libido. I am less than 10 days out from PCT and starting to dread being "off" because I am loving these strength gains so much. I will run a super careful PCT to keep as much as possible.

you taking anything for the libido? or is it not really affecting you that much? because honestly that is the only worry i have about this type of cycle that is keeping me from running it instead of mdrol.

 

[beejman]

Im not taking anything for the libido... everything still works fine when it needs to, just not as "responsive". I am married and have a couple of kids so I can get by with low libido for a couple of months.

 

[beejman]

bodyweight 212 this morning... off day. I am taking tomorrow off as well, just a bit of shoulder tightness and I have learned over the years to listen to my body.

I have one more round through my workouts before PCT starts... I will do shoulders and arms on Sunday - Chest on Tuesday, Back on Wednesday, and Legs on Friday.

Will go for some more P.R.s this coming week.

Still looking for some more feedback on my PCT, posted a few posts back. any feedback at all would be appreciated.

 

[beejman]

coming to the finishing stretch....

bodyweight 214 this AM.

Shoulders and Arms today

Worked up to 95's for 8 clean reps on dumbell shoulder press, did a DC style rest-pause set on BB curls and got 23 reps with 100 (11, 7, 5). Tons of energy in the gym today, worked through my shoulder workout with very little rest, side laterals and upright rows felt great.

No new sides at all - except my shut down has gotten pretty extreme and libido is basically gone. For that reason I am excited to get PCT going and over with.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Im not taking anything for the libido... everything still works fine when it needs to, just not as "responsive". I am married and have a couple of kids so I can get by with low libido for a couple of months.

How true that is. I was able to get it up especially after convincing her to give it a little kiss. LMAO

 

[beejman]

Bodyweight 214 this AM

I bumped the dose to 40mg epi and kept the tren at 90 for today and tomorrow, just doing this to empty the bottle one day earlier so I can get going on PCT. the shutdown is really something... and since this is my first cycle I want to gauge my bodies ability to come back. The strength, feeling of power, and perma-pump continue.

Today was legs.

highlights were 365 x 5 super strict on squats (maybe an inch or so below parallel)

Tomorrow will be my official last day on cycle. It is typically my day off (shoulders and arms were Sunday and Legs today), but I am going to see how I feel in the morning and do my chest day 1 day early assuming my body feels up to it. I just want to have a workout on my last "on" day. Toremifene starts Wednesday, I stopped at CVS and got the ML measurement thingy today.

 

[beejman]

Here we go, last day of dosing....

Bodyweight 214.5 this AM

Did Chest today, a day early, but like I said, I didnt want to have my last day "on" as an off day.

My shoulders were a little tender, I typically have 2 or 3 days between shoulders and chest day, but this time I had one day between them (leg day)

Today was workout B (Incline Barbell Press and Flat Dumbell Press)

My last workset on Incline BB Press was 245 x 5 (new PR) and my last set of flat DB was 110's x 6 (one more rep than last week)

I can really feel todays workout in my shoulders... moving the off day back probably was not smart in the grand scheme of things.... I am sitting here with ice packs strapped to both front delts as I type this

Toremifene PCT starts tomorrow evening, not looking forward to that taste, but I am looking forward to getting my balls back. I am really anxious to see how I can retain strength during PCT.

I will do 2 final reviews. I will do one sometime over the next few days to cover the cycle itself, and another in this same thread 3 weeks after PCT ends to log lifts, weight, body composition, etc.

 

[beejman]

first dose of Torem this evening with dinner. 120 mg (2 ML) - tastes HORRIBLE!

 

[Harland]

good luck with pct hope all goes good

 

[wilsmash4food]

great job man..sounds like your life is busy enough without fitting in the gym, yet you managed to stay in there and do the damn thing. motivational. i feel the shoulder soreness on epi every time, and havent been able to find a way to counter it. megadosing fish oils and a couple of aleve every day help but towards the end it always gets pretty bad. has your lady mentioned any mood changes that you may not have noticed yourself?

 

[beejman]

Thanks wilsmash... she definitely has noticed mood changes, big time. I dont know if that is because she is looking for them...

I am on day 4 of PCT and hoping I can turn things "ON" as easily as I was able to turn them "OFF"

I am looking for some PCT feedback over on the PCT forum also, if anyone wants to check it out. I keep talking myself into changing things as I read countless articles and threads and logs.

here is my current plan (on day 4 right now) - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/124961-sanity-check-epi.html#post1948969

 

[beejman]

Ok - Here goes Cycle review...

Bodyweight and Body Comp -

ON Cycle I went from 202 to 214 - all weights taken same time of day and completely fasted in the AM. I did pick up probably 4 or 5 pounds of fat, so I would estimate 5 to 7 of additional good weight. Need to buy new dress shirts as the 16.5 inch neck simply CANNOT be buttoned any more. Arms and shoulders are also noticeably fuller.

Strength - (I have my training journal in front of me, so will pull some examples)

Flat BB Bench Press 235 x 6 to 285 x 5
Incline BB Bench Press 205 x 5 to 245 x 5
Incline DB press 80's x 8 to 100's x 8
Seated DB Military Shoulder Press - 70's x 6 to 90's x 6
Deadlifts (ankle injury on cycle slowed these down) 325 x 3 to 365 x 3
Squats - no change, worked higher rep ranges over the past month (ankle injury)
Bent over Barbell Row (strict) - 165 x 10 to 205 x 8

SIDES:

During my run, I ran into many of the sides reported by other loggers of this stack (lethargy, back pumps, libido and insomnia to name a few. All of these sides were manageable for me. When I was having an especially low motivation day, I would add some stims or some Dhea, when the back pumps creeped up I upped the water and taurine, to battle insomnia I moved my last does back until I found the best time for me personally (6 PM last dose).

OVERALL -

For me, this stack did exactly what I wanted it to do. I was able to break through some strength plateaus and bump up my bodyweight a significant amount in only 4 weeks. I planned this thing so detailed, and my diet and training was SPOT on during the run. Personally, I think the fact that many of us dial our diets in extra tight, quit drinking, really focus on the training, keep detailed logs, etc. while on cycle is responsible for much of the progress.

IF I HAD IT TO DO AGAIN....

If I were to do this over, I would probably bump the epi to 40 MG for the full last week. My sides were relatively low on cycle and I think I could have handled the extra 10 mg, other loggers have reported a bump at this dosage. Also I might have done this cycle as a bit more of a CLEAN BULK as opposed to a carb-heavy super bulk like I did. These compounds really do help pack on the pounds, and I might have overdone the kcal a bit.

I am starting into PCT right now and still super shut down - hoping the TOREM takes care of this soon!

 

[beejman]

Update -

about one week into PCT, libido still very low, but improving. nipples still sensitive but improving a little.

strength is steady, but endurance is starting to taper off. Today I worked up to 285 x 5 on flat bb bench press (tying a PR), but then had all kinds of trouble on incline DB press, trying to repeat last weeks weights and failing on sets 2 and 3.

Overall, still feeling good.. perma-pump has worn off, which is a bummer

bodyweight down a little , 212 this morning.