Mowglisml Testing: Massacr3 + Assass1nate

[VO2Maxima]

a MAJOR tip would be to control your wrists and make sure that they are in one line with the arm instead of folding them over - most people dont control that, you can handle a serious amount of more weight if you check your wrists.

This is true. A lot of people put their wrist wraps on wrong too, which doesn't help. They should slightly overlap the wrist joint itself so they keep your wrists straight.


The #1 biggest bench mistake that I see is people not keeping their upper back/shoulders tight. People lie down on the bench like they're going to take a nap, and then try to bench that way. On the other hand, retracting and depressing your shoulder blades will give you a more stable platform to press from, keep your shoulders healthier (which is HUGE, shoulder problems are the most common injury I see on bench), and let you press more weight. That scapular motion is also the same motion that arches your back...if anyone says not to arch the bench, they don't know what they're talking about, as even a bodybuilding-style bench should have a small arch, as not only is it safer for the shoulders, but making it into a slight decline increases lower pec activation while keeping upper pec activation the same (Mike Israetel explains it by saying it exposes more of the chest to stress while simultaneously preventing your shoulders from taking over the movement and also keeping them safer). Obviously with a powerlifting-style bench, an even bigger arch is preferable, since it has the same shoulder-health benefits, while also further increasing how much weight you can lift (by bringing the lats into the motion as movers) and decreasing ROM, all while not actually risking back injury (weight is loaded in a way that won't expose the spine to very much shear force, and also discs don't herniate in that direction very often at all).

 

[iamyourfather]

This is true. A lot of people put their wrist wraps on wrong too, which doesn't help. They should slightly overlap the wrist joint itself so they keep your wrists straight.


The #1 biggest bench mistake that I see is people not keeping their upper back/shoulders tight. People lie down on the bench like they're going to take a nap, and then try to bench that way. On the other hand, retracting and depressing your shoulder blades will give you a more stable platform to press from, keep your shoulders healthier (which is HUGE, shoulder problems are the most common injury I see on bench), and let you press more weight. That scapular motion is also the same motion that arches your back...if anyone says not to arch the bench, they don't know what they're talking about, as even a bodybuilding-style bench should have a small arch, as not only is it safer for the shoulders, but making it into a slight decline increases lower pec activation while keeping upper pec activation the same (Mike Israetel explains it by saying it exposes more of the chest to stress while simultaneously preventing your shoulders from taking over the movement and also keeping them safer). Obviously with a powerlifting-style bench, an even bigger arch is preferable, since it has the same shoulder-health benefits, while also further increasing how much weight you can lift (by bringing the lats into the motion as movers) and decreasing ROM, all while not actually risking back injury (weight is loaded in a way that won't expose the spine to very much shear force, and also discs don't herniate in that direction very often at all).

absolutely! many people think that an arch would hurt but even the opposite is the case...i personally lift bodybuilding style, with a quite big arch, it feels much more comfortable and i can get a stronger body pressure, if you know what i mean.

@OP

imho its also important to let the bar down slowly (till you touch your body, not some **** with 5cm above the body...) - YOU control the weight and not reversed! - and push it up very explosive and WITHOUT bouncing on your chest or leg drive.

and like V02Maxima already stated - the most important part is to keep your back/shoulders tight during the WHOLE movement, otherwise you literally f*ck your shoulders

oooh and another VERY important point - we DONT want a t-bar bench press! you should t put your arms in a 90 degree angle to your body, this is a heavy shoulder destroyer; yes, you can train your chest more isolated this way and also many pro‘s are doing that but that means nothing. just dont do it if you want to keep your shoulders healthy. (generally i would see most of the tips from pros with a grain of salt; dont just copy the training style of any iffb pro just because hes a ifbb pro as long as you dont have his genetics and also his roids)

 

[Mowglisml]

Thanks guys and gal .
You all pretty much re-enforced what I was studying. Appreciate it

 

[VO2Maxima]

oooh and another VERY important point - we DONT want a t-bar bench press! you should t put your arms in a 90 degree angle to your body, this is a heavy shoulder destroyer; yes, you can train your chest more isolated this way and also many pro‘s are doing that but that means nothing. just dont do it if you want to keep your shoulders healthy. (generally i would see most of the tips from pros with a grain of salt; dont just copy the training style of any iffb pro just because hes a ifbb pro as long as you dont have his genetics and also his roids)

This is another excellent point. I wonder if maybe that style of bench came from equipped powerlifters using bench shirts, where they're flaring their elbows to try to spread the chestplate. Honestly equipped benching feels like a completely different lift than raw bench (equipped deadlift feels almost exactly the same as raw deadlift, and equipped squat is a little different but still feels similar to raw squat, but equipped bench is its own animal, and hard as f*** to boot lol). Anyway, not only does flaring elbows spread the chestplate, but the shirt also protects your shoulders...supposedly anyway, as it feels hard on my shoulders but then again idk how to equipped bench properly. However, with raw bench, keeping elbows tucked will keep the glenohumeral joint in a safer position! They don't need to be super tucked all the way in like a close grip bench, but don't flare them!

 

[Mowglisml]

 

[Mowglisml]

Day 6
PWO Stack
-coffee + MAN coffee bcaa
-massacr3 - 2 pills

Intra
-HydraCharge

Upper
Note: All weight is in pounds (lbs). Forward slash represents super-set. "*" is a drop set

Warmup:
-Few reps and stretches

Working Lifts:
-BB Bench: 185x6, 6, 6, 6
-Machine Fly: 100x12, 105x12, 110x12*80x10
-Rope Pullover: 30x20, 20
-Bent over BB Row: 145x7, 7, 7 (all sets had additional 7 lower 1/2 ROM)
-CG cable row: 140x13, 12, 12
-Lat Pulldown: 120x15, 15, 15
-cable upright row/ rope facepull external rotation: 42.5x15, 15, 15/ 20x20, 20, 20
-DB curl: 20 (each hand) x12, 12, 12
-DB hammer curl: 20 (each hand) x12, 12, 12

Post
-PES Select - 1 scoop
+2 hrs post workout 2 pills Assass1nate with dinner

Through the Day
-ON creatine
-Finaflex - Active Multi

Comments
Wow the pumps are legit with just massacr3! So for those of you that want to save money and not buy a pre to go along. Endurance, pump, and focus all there with just coffee and massacr3.
Really worked on my form today and got it down. Feels weird so i need to get accustomed to it. 185x6 but i felt my chest get activated wayyyyy more, and no weird shoulder or elbow kinks.
I’ll comment tomorrow what I ate for dinner but i am planning on taking 2 pills with a carb dinner.
I also did too much volume today and i will dial it down next week.

 

[xtyler]

Things are already getting spicy here :banana:
Remember to take Assass1nate -before- meals, with a glass of water.

 

[Mowglisml]

Last nights assass1nate was doses ~25 minutes before my dinner.
Dinner: big ahi tuna salad and a dry baked potato. Glass of seasonal beer.

 

[Ricky10]

Last nights assass1nate was doses ~25 minutes before my dinner.
Dinner: big ahi tuna salad and a dry baked potato. Glass of seasonal beer.

Nice! People report that Assass1nate helps with hangovers as well....you killed two birds with one stone!

I of course would have no clue if this is true...

 

[Mowglisml]

Nice! People report that Assass1nate helps with hangovers as well....you killed two birds with one stone!

I of course would have no clue if this is true...

Interesting. It was only 1 beer.... maybe i have to put it to the test in the future lol

 

[Ricky10]

Interesting. It was only 1 beer.... maybe i have to put it to the test in the future lol

Oh definitely!

 

[xtyler]

Nice! People report that Assass1nate helps with hangovers as well....you killed two birds with one stone!

I of course would have no clue if this is true...

Yeah, makes drinking a more expensive habit ahah

 

[Mowglisml]

Day 7
PWO Stack
-Dymatize pre
-massacr3 - 2 pills

Intra
-none

Lower
Note: All weight is in pounds (lbs). Forward slash represents super-set. "*" is a drop set

Warmup:
-Few reps and stretches

Working Lifts:
-BB Deadlift: 275x6, 6, 6, 315x3*275x1*225x4
-BB sumo squat: 195x10, 185x10, 10
-Walking DB Lunges: 15(each hand) x12, 12, 12
-seated leg curls: 95x12, 105x12, 110x12
-seated calf / donkey: 100x12, 12, 12/ 20,20,20
-crunch machine: 40x12, 50x12, 12

Post
-PES Select - 1 scoop + banana

Through the Day
-ON creatine with Ghost bcaa
-Finaflex - Active Multi
-Assass1nate: 2 pills 20min before brunch. Veggie omelet, country potatoes, and 2 dry rye toasts. Planning 2 pills for dinner tonight.

Comments

Dentist appointment in the morning woke up like 30 minutes before, so skipped breakfast. Had a late breakfast with Assass1nate. Todays workout felt brutal, but pushed through. Maybe placebo, but I’m feeling thick and i actually lost 1-2 lbs.
Disneyland tonight to take my wife on a dinner date and walk around. Planning 2 pills of assass1nate.

 

[Mowglisml]

I need to add something else that I forgot to mention. Pre-workout I snuck in a little action in the bedroom lol... but what i noticed , please note I felt the same way when taking ep1logue, un-satiated finishing. It’s weird. I feel like I didn’t finish at all or I blew empty, and I can keep going haha

 

[xtyler]

I can keep going haha

Errr...so not getting soft once all is done?:lmao:

 

[jameschoi]

Can you take massacr3 and letrone at the same time.

 

[Mowglisml]

Errr...so not getting soft once all is done?:lmao:

Yes, but also feeling like i came empty.. even though i didn’t haha

 

[Mowglisml]

Progress pic. Can’t really tell much difference in a week. Left is today.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Progress pic. Can’t really tell much difference in a week. Left is today.

I can see the difference. Looking leaner

 

[xtyler]

Why your back looks twice as wide today? :cool2:

 

[Mowglisml]

Day 8
PWO Stack
-Re1gn - Krushers sample packet
-massacr3 - 2 pills

Intra
-Ghost

Chest & Back
Note: All weight is in pounds (lbs). Forward slash represents super-set. "*" is a drop set

Working Lifts:
-BB Bench: practice practice practice form
-wide grip pullups: 4x3
-wide grip ng cable row: 8x3
-incline db bench: 50x12, 55x12, 70x12 (each hand)
-db hammer press: 50x14, 50x12 (each hand)
-cable fly: 12.5x20, 14x20 (each hand)
-Smith shrugs: 45 each side x 14, 70 each sidex14, 14, 14
-machine press: 3 sets to failure

Post
-PES Select - 1 scoop + 1/2 banana, blueberries + creatine

Through the Day
-Finaflex - Active Multi
-Assass1nate: 1 pill before breakfast sandwhich, 1 pill before mid afternoon snack, 2 pills before late night pizza.

Comments
Practice my bench form again today. The heaviest i did was 1 set of 185 for 3 to practice engaging my whole body. Enjoyed todays session. I was working up a sweat just practicing form at 115 lbs. felt great. The 2 back exercises were “cluster” sets threw them in there from searching some jeff nippard stuff.

 

[Mowglisml]

Why your back looks twice as wide today? :cool2:

****.. you are right i can see it lol. Hmm

 

[paul56778]

****.. you are right i can see it lol. Hmm

I can see changes which are good for one week, look slightly leaner.

 

[VO2Maxima]

That's a week?? Definitely leaner, although with it being such a short period of time I can't discount that there's a possibility of immediate diet/water retention having some effect. Keep up with progress pictures, that way you can monitor if you continue to lean out, you'll know it's not just a transient thing.

 

[iamyourfather]

wow, thats really VERY good for just a week. have you changed your diet/water or salt intake since starting?

 

[Mowglisml]

Haven’t changed anything. I’ve continued to eat at around the same time and eat for the most part the same. No changes besides taking creatine in the am.

 

[iamyourfather]

Haven’t changed anything. I’ve continued to eat at around the same time and eat for the most part the same. No changes besides taking creatine in the am.

yeah, creatine wont be the causer of this really noticeable change. i think you are a little closer to the camera/little different light on today‘s pictures but you can still see a change in body composition! curious about the next weeks and also about my upcoming massacr3 cycle.

nice log, keep going!

 

[big_jewels]

Late to the game but sub'd now =) Happy Late New Years Everyone !

 

[Mowglisml]

Day 9

Rest

Through the Day
-Finaflex - Active Multi
-ON creatine
-ghost bcaa
-Assass1nate: 2 pills before breakfast: 1 cup oats, pb, and Pes select and a couple of mimosas to watch the jags vs bills game. 2 pills before dinner


Comments
Rest day. Enjoy some morning football and do some chores.. Nothing else to report.
Edit: plan was to go hiking, but chores and the saints vs panthers took up the day haha. Took the pup for a jog and binged some Dexter.

 

[elo76]

Im late, but in. Starting Massacr3 tomorrow with my PCT.

 

[Mowglisml]

Day 10
PWO Stack
-Bloodshot
-massacr3 - 2 pills

Intra
-Ghost - BCAAs

Upper
Note: All weight is in pounds (lbs). Forward slash represents super-set. "*" is a drop set

Working Lifts:
-Lat Pulldown: 140x10, 160x10, 10
-Cable Pullover: 35x12, 42.5x13, 50x12
-BB Military Press: 95x6, 6, 100x6, 105x6
-Arnold Presses: 35x12, 12, 40x10
-Rope Facepull (Scapular Retraction)/ machine tricep pressdown: 37.5x20, 42.5x17, 17/ 130x12, 12, 150x12
-Cable tricep pressdown ez bar: 57.5x12, 62.5x12, 12

Post
-PES Select - 1 scoop + 1/2 banana

Through the Day
-Finaflex - Active Multi
-Assass1nate: 1 pill before breakfast proats, 2 pills before lunch, 1 pill before mid afternoon oats

Comments
Damn the pumps were so insane today! I forgot how legit bloodshot is! still have a few scoops that I have saved to enjoy on occasion. Military press is weak but I had strict form and this helped with mind muscle connection. Kept eyeing myself in the mirror cuz of the pumps haha.

Dinner:

 

[Mowglisml]

Day 11
PWO Stack
-Outlift
-massacr3 - 2 pills

Intra
-Ghost - BCAAs

Lower
Note: All weight is in pounds (lbs). Forward slash represents super-set. "*" is a drop set

Working Lifts:
-BB Romanian deads: 235x6, 245x6, 6, 6
-BB squat: 205x 10, 10, 225x10
-Leg Extension: 170x12, 12, 12
-Sitting Calf: 230x12, 10, 10
-Cable crunch: 57.5x12, 12, 12
-Jackknives: 12, 10, 6

Post
-PES Select - 1 scoop + breakfast burrito

Through the Day
-Finaflex - Active Multi
-Assass1nate: 1 pill before breakfast proats, 2 pills before lunch, 1 pill before mid afternoon oats

Comments
Last set of squats i failed at 6 reps, but i pushed out the last 4 rest pausing in doubles. Took me almost a minute to finish them. Had a great workout and felt solid in the gym.

 

[Mowglisml]

Day 12

Rest

Through the Day
-On creatine + bcaas
-Massacre 5 am and 5 pm
-Finaflex - Active Multi
-Assass1nate: 1 pill before breakfast proats, 2 pills before lunch, 1 pill before mid afternoon oats
-PES Select - 1 scoop

Comments
Rest day. Was feeling good all day until my commute home started getting really tired and now my head hurts. I feel like I may be getting sick. A bunch of *******s at work coughing up a storm. Hopefully i get better
Few other notes:
I finished my finaflex MV and creatine. tomorrow start with PEs multi and Ergonine. Last time I was taking E9 i experienced some faster recovery so I will keep and eye out for that and not confuse it with massacr3.

 

[VO2Maxima]

I feel like everyone is getting sick. That time of year, I guess. Feel better!

 

[Mowglisml]

I feel like everyone is getting sick. That time of year, I guess. Feel better!

Yup it is. Thanks. I’ll fight it and try dodging the coughing zombies

 

[Mowglisml]

Day 13
PWO Stack
-quake
-massacr3 - 2 pills

Intra
-Ghost BCAAs

Upper
Note: All weight is in pounds (lbs). Forward slash represents super-set. "*" is a drop set

Warmup:
-Few reps and stretches

Working Lifts:
-BB Bench: 185x6, 6, 6, 6
-Dips: 190.8x12, 12, 11
-Bent over BB Row: 145x7, 7, 7 (all sets had additional 7 lower 1/2 ROM)
-CG cable row: 140x13, 140+rubber weightx12, 140+2rubber weightsx12
-cable upright row/ rope facepull external rotation: 42.5x15, 15, 50x15/ 25x15, 15, 15
-BB curl: x12, 12, 8
-DB hammer curl: 20 (each hand) x12, 25x12, 25x12
-CG reverse grip curls: burn out

Post
-PES Select - 1 scoop+ 1/2 banana

Through the Day
-PES E9
-PES Multi
-Assass1nate: 1 pill before proats, 2 pills before lunch, 1 pill before afternoon oats

Comments
I was feeling a little weak today from sick symptoms, but I managed to move same bench weight as last week. The pumps today were outrageous. My forearms were getting real tight. Had a great session

 

[jtmass]

So, its been 2 weeks and I only see mention of pumps being great.. Nothing else? How long is it supposed to take to see some changes or benefits apart from pump.

 

[Mowglisml]

So, its been 2 weeks and I only see mention of pumps being great.. Nothing else? How long is it supposed to take to see some changes or benefits apart from pump.

I would have reported additional items if I noticed but I have not noticed anything apart from good pumps. Aside from this, i seem to have leaned very little in 1 week without changing diet or training. Let’s see what progress, visually, i make this saturday.

 

[jtmass]

I would have reported additional items if I noticed but I have not noticed anything apart from good pumps. Aside from this, i seem to have leaned very little in 1 week without changing diet or training. Let’s see what progress, visually, i make this saturday.

Are you on a surplus diet now? B/c, this is supposed to put make you big (as per the name). If it’s just pumps, it’s time OL just bring out Vaso6 as supplement.

 

[xtyler]

Are you on a surplus diet now? B/c, this is supposed to put make you big (as per the name). If it’s just pumps, it’s time OL just bring out Vaso6 as supplement.

Far from mere pump. We already have PLENTY of users reporting much faster strength progression and impressive size gains when paired with a proper surplus, without the usual fat gain they experienced in the past without the supplement.

 

[jtmass]

Far from mere pump. We already have PLENTY of users reporting much faster strength progression and impressive size gains when paired with a proper surplus, without the usual fat gain they experienced in the past without the supplement.

I don’t think anyone except Mowglislm is doing a log here. And I am definitely not convinced when it comes to Laxo. When does this kick in. 2weeks, 4weeks?

 

[Mowglisml]

Are you on a surplus diet now? B/c, this is supposed to put make you big (as per the name). If it’s just pumps, it’s time OL just bring out Vaso6 as supplement.

I am idling around maintenance and only over consume if my body is asking for it. I will continue doing this just to see how much of an effect is the supplement

 

[jtmass]

I am idling around maintenance and only over consume if my body is asking for it. I will continue doing this just to see how much of an effect is the supplement

I like your strategy.. this definitely will tell us.

 

[xtyler]

I don’t think anyone except Mowglislm is doing a log here. And I am definitely not convinced when it comes to Laxo. When does this kick in. 2weeks, 4weeks?

Keep in mind that the core of both Massacr3 and Ep1logue is Uro-B, the driving force.
You can find many posts in the Ep1logue thread, here are a few just from the last page (coming from an user fairly well experienced with AAS/PH's):

I'm up 13 Lbs. as I come to the end of 12 weeks. I do not plan a break from Epilogue/massacre, they will be foundational supplements.

Crowbar

My wife can't tell any real increase in body fat. I can see a slight increase however, just because I more closely watch my body for shifts in composition. I have to say, any small increase in body fat has been far less than what I'd typically expect for such a gain in so short a period of time. Muscle size as well as thickness/density/fullness has definitely increased!

Crowbar

Yeah, me and another person who reported 14 Lbs. in 12 weeks. It is pretty amazing and makes me wonder what we have going on here: how much is actual increases in muscle fiber diameter, and how much is increased sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (I.e., glycogen, water, etc.). Of course, much of it is going to be sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (as is often the case with AAS).

I do feel as if I have increased glucose uptake and glycogen deposition, leading to the pumped, hard, dense muscular effect.

Crowbar

 

[jtmass]

Keep in mind that the core of both Massacr3 and Ep1logue is Uro-B, the driving force.
You can find many posts in the Ep1logue thread, here are a few just from the last page (coming from an user fairly well experienced with AAS/PH's):

So, he was on a surplus diet I guess. He would have gained that weight easily by just diet. But, what I understand from his experience is, the supplement had a leaning out effect. Keeping his body fat low with weight gain.

 

[Mowglisml]

I agree with xtyler that the uro-b is the key here. I can only compare my 8 week ep1logue run to chaos and pains Legendary which has both epicatechin and laxo. Week 3 on ep1logue my strength shot up like crazy. Legendary and laxo was just a great sex endurance stack haha and some endurance increase

 

[xtyler]

So, he was on a surplus diet I guess. He would have gained that weight easily by just diet.

Not sure you actually read the post. "any small increase in body fat has been far less than what I'd typically expect for such a gain in so short a period of time."

So yes, he may have gained the same amount of weight by just diet, but the fat/muscle gain ratio would have been totally different.

 

[iamyourfather]

I don’t think anyone except Mowglislm is doing a log here. And I am definitely not convinced when it comes to Laxo. When does this kick in. 2weeks, 4weeks?

my 12 week ep1logue run is nearly finished (i think less than 2 weeks left). im definitely stronger, of course still insane pumps and a outstanding muscle-mind connection in the gym.

as far as body changes go i can say that i gained muscle, probably more than i would have without ep1logue. vascularity is better, i gained a little bit belly fat over the holidays but my vascularity is still there (mainly on the arms, weirdly it still gets better).

my gym buddy said two weeks ago something like „you gained remarkably on your back“ (he doesnt know about ep1logue, so i can keep him unbiased) and he is right, my shoulders, back, chest and also my neck are noticeably bigger, also the arms are bigger but there is primarily the increased vascularity noticeable. sadly only my legs didnt grow as nicely as the other bodyparts.

i have to mention that i was in caloric surplus during the whole cycle (not sure how high because lack of tracking but its easy discernible on the overall higher bodyfatpercentage) but i have a better vascularity than before, which is quite amazing.

overall im very satisfied with the results, even though i cant say for sure which effects are 100% related to the ep1logue - but when can we say that ever for sure about any supplement?

i already have 3 bottles of massacr3 here. after ep1logue i will take a 3 week break at least before i start the new cycle. maybe i will throw a lgd-4033 cycle in between (not sure yet, still researching the compound and thinking about the the pros and cons. maybe you, xtyler have a few impressions and can tell me your opinion) and use the massacr3 during pct.

 

[jtmass]

Not sure you actually read the post. "any small increase in body fat has been far less than what I'd typically expect for such a gain in so short a period of time."

So yes, he may have gained the same amount of weight by just diet, but the fat/muscle gain ratio would have been totally different.

That’s exactly my point.. it may have given him some leaning out effect. I am sure even he doesn’t know don’t know how much muscle gain he had because he didn’t check BF%, Free Fat Mass etc..

 

[xtyler]

my 12 week ep1logue run is nearly finished (i think less than 2 weeks left). im definitely stronger, of course still insane pumps and a outstanding muscle-mind connection in the gym.

as far as body changes go i can say that i gained muscle, probably more than i would have without ep1logue. vascularity is better, i gained a little bit belly fat over the holidays but my vascularity is still there (mainly on the arms, weirdly it still gets better).

my gym buddy said two weeks ago something like „you gained remarkably on your back“ (he doesnt know about ep1logue, so i can keep him unbiased) and he is right, my shoulders, back, chest and also my neck are noticeably bigger, also the arms are bigger but there is primarily the increased vascularity noticeable.

i have to mention that i was in caloric surplus during the whole cycle (not sure how high because lack of tracking but its easy discernible on the overall higher bodyfatpercentage) but i have a better vascularity than before, which is quite amazing.

overall im very satisfied with the results, even though i cant say for sure which effects are 100% related to the ep1logue - but when can we say that ever for sure about any supplement?

i already have 3 bottles of massacr3 here. after ep1logue i will take a 3 week break at least before i start the new cycle. maybe i will throw a lgd-4033 cycle in between (not sure yet, still researching the compound and thinking about the the pros and cons. maybe you, xtyler have a few impressions and can tell me your opinion) and use the massacr3 during pct.

Thanks for you feedback.
One can definitely use Massacr3/Ep1logue in PCT, quite a smart idea actually. I'll gladly help you via PM, don't want to hijack Mowglisml's log any further