Most effective non-methyl..

[xtraflossy]

I'm wondering, what is the most proven/effective non methyl for fat loss?

I'm looking to run a methyl (halo or SD or something) for mass, but would really like to stack a non methyl that will help me loos the fat.
Between a Finaplex, andro hard,Prostanz and 11oxo , which one is the most effective?

If there have been others that have come out I'm open to suggestions

 

[jonesBones40]

Those methyls you named, halo and super, will keep you pretty lean. maybe if you were running a wet cycle like p plex or m14add then you would need to worry about getting bulky, but halo will keep you lean and super if ran right will to. I've never done a cycle just goin off what I see and hear

 

[jonesBones40]

What are your goals in weight gain from the cycle?

 

[jbryand101b]

trenavar, or trenazone

 

[Nate007]

trenavar, or trenazone

+1 on this from what I've read. Haven't used it yet but starting an epi/trenazone cycle Sunday. Can't wait!

 

[xtraflossy]

What are your goals in weight gain from the cycle?

Basically weight loss. But I'm sure I'll gain a little from the cycle anyways.
Also, I havent had great luck with phera, oddly. I know many have. I had more luch with ergomax (from the 3-ene).

 

[xtraflossy]

Those methyls you named, halo and super, will keep you pretty lean. maybe if you were running a wet cycle like p plex or m14add then you would need to worry about getting bulky, but halo will keep you lean and super if ran right will to. I've never done a cycle just goin off what I see and hear

lol, I'm already "bulky".. I don't want to run a straight bulker, or a straight cutter. I have a nice base, I'm trying to cut weight, but possibly gain some also.

I', really interested in what works the best for melting the fat.


I know I sound like a noob for stating I want both, I know. But I'm going to take a milder compound (probably halo) but I really want to emphasize on the leaning effect.

I've taken prostanz and "tren", both very mild. I was wondering about the others

 

[xtraflossy]

trenavar, or trenazone

Just some quick reading., trenazone seems to be better for cutting. But what about the other compounds?

 

[jonesBones40]

trenavar, or trenazone

Agreed, if you didn't want these and wanted similar results halodrol would work. I know what your saying when you dot want to bulk or cut just get lean. Its hard to accomplish

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

I 2nd trenavar or trenazone.

 

[howwedo107]

What about 11oxo?

 

[xtraflossy]

it must be highly androgenic. the only thing that ever made me shed some hair was the original ergomax lmg. it bothered my prostate too. phera didn't do that to me. so it must be that 3-ene.

Yes, nothing else made me feel and respond like 3-ene. Had hpes pf a pure product but it never came.

What about 11-oxo? What is the most androgenic non methyl out there?

I see trenavar, or trenazone , I'm leaning twards one, but what about all the others? This is what I'd like to know about

 

[Broly]

The most androgenic non-mehty prohomones considering their target hormone are 1-androsternone (converts into 1-testosterone wich A:A is 200:100), epiandrosterone and androsterone (wich taget hormone is DHT - the alpha isomer, androsterone, is the stronger of the two) and 4-DHEA wich converts into testosterone with the golden standard A:A of 100:100. As far as 11-oxo (adrenosterone) goes isn't no where near as androgenic as the ones I stated above with an anabolic:androgenic ratio of 70:48 (not his target hormone 11-keto-testosterone but adrenosterone itself, and in comparison to testosterone) but still a great cutter due to other effects as cortisol moduling properties.

 

[jbryand101b]

unfortunately, you are incorrect, as trenavar, which converts into trenbolone, has a much, much more higher androgenic/anabolic ratio, as it is 500:500, much more higher than 1-testosterone.

since you were wrong right off the bat, i'll just stop here.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

unfortunately, you are incorrect, as trenavar, which converts into trenbolone, has a much, much more higher androgenic/anabolic ratio, as it is 500:500, much more higher than 1-testosterone.

since you were wrong right off the bat, i'll just stop here.

Lol Jbry maybe he's just been away from the game for awhile.

 

[Evil]

Methoxygonadiene is another non methyl used for bulk cycle

 

[Pharaoh]

good old testosterone propionate

 

[Broly]

unfortunately, you are incorrect, as trenavar, which converts into trenbolone, has a much, much more higher androgenic/anabolic ratio, as it is 500:500, much more higher than 1-testosterone.

since you were wrong right off the bat, i'll just stop here.

Hum, yeah you're partially right because if you look closer to the data in Julius Vida's work trenbolone has a 500:500 ratio in comparison to 19-nor-testosterone (nandrolone) and not to testosterone. That's a great difference considering that nandrolone has an a:a of 125:37 in comparison to testosterone. Now consider that trenbolone has a ratio of 500:500 in comparison to nandrolone and you'll understand how androgenic it really is in comparison to testosterone.
Just doing rough math if 125:37 (nandrolone's a:a ratio in comparison to testosternone) is considered to be 100:100 in the study in wich trenbolone is compared, then:

-to know the anabolic value of trenbolone in comparison to testosterone the math count is like: 125(anabolic value of nandrolone comparing to testosterone) X 500 (the trenbolone anabolic value in comparison to nandrolone) : 100 (the base number to wich the anabolic value of nandrolone was given in the study to wich it was compared to trenbolone) = 625 -> wich would be the anabolic value of trenbolone to testosterone

-to know the androgenic value of trenbolone in comparison to testosterone the math count is like: 37(androgenic value of nandrolone comparing to testosterone) X 500 (the trenbolone androgenic value in comparison to nandrolone) : 100 (the base number to wich the androgenic value of nandrolone was given in the study to wich it was compared to trenbolone) = 185 -> wich would be the androgenic value of trenbolone to testosterone

So... if I'm thinking right, by numbers (not by really comparing it in a real study to testosterone) we can assume that trenbolone's anabolic:androgenic ratio to testosterone it of 625:185, wich makes what you said right: trenbolone has an higher androgenic value than testosterone/1-testosterone (wich is the same), but not as high as it seems in those numbers
Plus, we must consider that these are only numbers and that in real world even though trenbolone is that androgenic it doesn't make up for the side effects typical of the 19nor compounds, but still makes it a pretty damn good non-methyl, oraly bioactive compound for cutting

 

[Broly]

Lol Jbry maybe he's just been away from the game for awhile.

Actually I haven't but I was thinking more in DSHEA compounds rather then in other substances This one haven't really crossed my mind while I was listing some compounds

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Actually I haven't but I was thinking more in DSHEA compounds rather then in other substances This one haven't really crossed my mind while I was listing some compounds

I understand bro, its pretty new anyway. Plus users of real trenbolone r reporting that they're not getting the same effects, implying that trenavar is making some other conversions besides just trenbolone. Personally I'm skeptical too that trenavar isn't just converting only to trenbolone.

 

[808shredded]

I'am on trenavar right now. Loving it

 

[Broly]

I understand bro, its pretty new anyway. Plus users of real trenbolone r reporting that they're not getting the same effects, implying that trenavar is making some other conversions besides just trenbolone. Personally I'm skeptical too that trenavar isn't just converting only to trenbolone.

Make a quick search online with "henryv designer steroids trenavar" and you'll find a page talking about the chemestry behind trendione. Besides, conversion is never a one-way route so your skepticism is more a well known and accepted truth

 

[Broly]

I'am on trenavar right now. Loving it

Standalone or stack?

 

[808shredded]

Stacking with 4ad. Using it for a lean bulk. Working really well. Will post progress when done with cycle.

 

[jbryand101b]

Hum, yeah you're partially right because if you look closer to the data in Julius Vida's work trenbolone has a 500:500 ratio in comparison to 19-nor-testosterone (nandrolone) and not to testosterone. That's a great difference considering that nandrolone has an a:a of 125:37 in comparison to testosterone. Now consider that trenbolone has a ratio of 500:500 in comparison to nandrolone and you'll understand how androgenic it really is in comparison to testosterone.
Just doing rough math if 125:37 (nandrolone's a:a ratio in comparison to testosternone) is considered to be 100:100 in the study in wich trenbolone is compared, then:

-to know the anabolic value of trenbolone in comparison to testosterone the math count is like: 125(anabolic value of nandrolone comparing to testosterone) X 500 (the trenbolone anabolic value in comparison to nandrolone) : 100 (the base number to wich the anabolic value of nandrolone was given in the study to wich it was compared to trenbolone) = 625 -> wich would be the anabolic value of trenbolone to testosterone

-to know the androgenic value of trenbolone in comparison to testosterone the math count is like: 37(androgenic value of nandrolone comparing to testosterone) X 500 (the trenbolone androgenic value in comparison to nandrolone) : 100 (the base number to wich the androgenic value of nandrolone was given in the study to wich it was compared to trenbolone) = 185 -> wich would be the androgenic value of trenbolone to testosterone

So... if I'm thinking right, by numbers (not by really comparing it in a real study to testosterone) we can assume that trenbolone's anabolic:androgenic ratio to testosterone it of 625:185, wich makes what you said right: trenbolone has an higher androgenic value than testosterone/1-testosterone (wich is the same), but not as high as it seems in those numbers
Plus, we must consider that these are only numbers and that in real world even though trenbolone is that androgenic it doesn't make up for the side effects typical of the 19nor compounds, but still makes it a pretty damn good non-methyl, oraly bioactive compound for cutting

not sure if that math is accurate, i'll get back to you on that, but I dont have a copy of vida any longer, so im unable to look at the type of administration used, or the standard of reference.

 

[jbryand101b]

Actually I haven't but I was thinking more in DSHEA compounds rather then in other substances This one haven't really crossed my mind while I was listing some compounds

well yea, dshea compounds make you pretty limited to your options.

 

[jbryand101b]

I understand bro, its pretty new anyway. Plus users of real trenbolone r reporting that they're not getting the same effects, implying that trenavar is making some other conversions besides just trenbolone. Personally I'm skeptical too that trenavar isn't just converting only to trenbolone.

it will convert into either epi-trenbolone, or trenbolone i believe.

conversions can be one way sometimes, it just depends on the conversion takes place.

for example, there is no conversion of estrogen into testosterone via some enzyme (that i know of).

 

[oufinny]

Trenazone is my choice, it is active dienelone. What more do you want? Trenavar does not impress me.

 

[Broly]

not sure if that math is accurate, i'll get back to you on that, but I dont have a copy of vida any longer, so im unable to look at the type of administration used, or the standard of reference.

I made quite simple cross-multiplication rule, but as I stated it "rough math" as I am assuming that nandrolone's anabolic:androgenic ratio were considered as a 100:100 base in trenbolone's study and therefore extrapolating the A:A ratio with nadrolone as standard hormone to testosterone as standard. Plus I'd like to say that this could be different than an actual comparison between trenbolone and testosterone as effects on the body may lead to different numbers.
Here's a link with a photo of Vida's study numbers on many other steroids among them trenbolone acetate
http://www.prohormoneforum.com/research-articles-user-guides/34892-study-dump.html#post620755
Hope this helps to our "brainstorm" here

 

[Broly]

well yea, dshea compounds make you pretty limited to your options.

Yeah, that's why I posted only them. But if we go through the Q ratio result is something a bit different

 

[Broly]

Stacking with 4ad. Using it for a lean bulk. Working really well. Will post progress when done with cycle.

So no tren-d*ck on that cycle. Wise choice

 

[808shredded]

Yep libido up. Balls shrink a little I think.

 

[Broly]

Yep libido up. Balls shrink a little I think.

So...no problems at all ^^

 

[808shredded]

Into 4th week. No sides, I was expecting like night sweats, but none. Main thing u have your support supps)

 

[natandrb]

If you want to drop extra fat while on cycle, just add clen to the mix. It'd compliment halo niceley since halo takes a few weeks.

 

[sam805]

Look into m-dien and m4ohn. These are more what your looking for. They are both methyls. Scrap the hdrol. Either m-dien solo if you are experienced. Jbry what you think about trenavar stacked with m4ohn. Should be great for strength hardness vascularity and fat loss. Think I'm gonna run it if phf ever restocks trenavar. My goals are the same as the OP.

 

[jbryand101b]

i dont download anything anymore. i had a bunch of books and studies down loaded on my last computer, which crashed from a virus i probably got from one of the downloads.

I'm good though, plenty of you guys if i need info from it. :thumbsup:

 

[xtraflossy]

If you want to drop extra fat while on cycle, just add clen to the mix. It'd compliment halo niceley since halo takes a few weeks.

lol, I can't believe I forgot about that option. ..but I have kicked a 10+ year ephedrine addiction, I don't think that would be the best choice for me. ...unless I'm stronger then I used to be

 

[jamesm11]

lol, I can't believe I forgot about that option. ..but I have kicked a 10+ year ephedrine addiction, I don't think that would be the best choice for me. ...unless I'm stronger then I used to be

Clen and ephedra are completely different. Clen doesn't make you feel stimulated or effect you like CNS stimulants. It is hard to describe, your heart speeds up and you get the shakes at first but there's no real feel to it like caffeine, ephedra, amphetamines, etc

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

it will convert into either epi-trenbolone, or trenbolone i believe.

conversions can be one way sometimes, it just depends on the conversion takes place.

for example, there is no conversion of estrogen into testosterone via some enzyme (that i know of).

U r totally correct. Its just not panning out as potent as I hoped and believed it would. I'm unimpressed but hey that's what the needle is for u know.

 

[Airborne42]

Would clen be good with sd? On a bulk to drop some fat as well

 

[xtraflossy]

Clen and ephedra are completely different. Clen doesn't make you feel stimulated or effect you like CNS stimulants. It is hard to describe, your heart speeds up and you get the shakes at first but there's no real feel to it like caffeine, ephedra, amphetamines, etc

I have done clen a number of times, as well as albuteral. I will have to consider those options (as good as they are) heavily. (lol, It took a lot to get over stims.. hell, I even made a mini log on quitting here someplace a couple years ago)

 

[jamesm11]

Definitely would have to keep an eye on blood ptessire

 

[Conte]

When you say non-methyl what do you mean? Do you mean non- hepatotoxic ?
Because even tren… is a little hepatotoxic because of the 17b-methoxy group.

So who is the best non-methyl anyway?
mLMG for bulk and Tren for cut?

 

[Conte]

Ah ok. So the new trenavar and trenazone have nothing to do with that.

 

[Conte]

WOW! That’s scary strong! But that’s the real o[FONT=&quot]ld school [/FONT]Tren experience.

 

[Broly]

The Methoxy Trn product was tested by PA and turned out to be pure trenbolone. There's a chance you could have some legit methoxytrenbolone, but...
And yes, trenbolone does exert some liver toxicity...I can't recall where I heard that but I think it was something to do with it's 11-ene group, the same that makes it more androgenic, for exemple, in comparison to dienolone (estra-4,9(10)-diene-3-one-17b-ol).

 

[Broly]

WOW! That’s scary strong!

If you went crazy with only that, take a look at Dimethyltrenbolone (7a,17a-dimethyl-estra-4,9,11-triene-17b-ol-3-one)... has a ratio of over 10000: over 10000 in comparison to 17a-methyltestosterone

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

If you went crazy with only that, take a look at Dimethyltrenbolone (7a,17a-dimethyl-estra-4,9,11-triene-17b-ol-3-one)... has a ratio of over 10000: over 10000 in comparison to 17a-methyltestosterone

How can I make this?

 

[AaronJP1]

Sub to go back and read later.