Might have to stop trt, please help!

[sloganslimms]

Hey bros, so here's the deal. I've been on trt for 5 years and blast/cruise for a few cycles... So I dont know what can be done to help restart some natty production, but I might be forced to do some time locked up for a few years. Im just preparing for the worst but any help is appreciated.

 

[Heybros1]

Well how long do you have before you may have to go?

 

[BBiceps]

Start HCG and Clomid and hope for the best.

 

[sloganslimms]

Well how long do you have before you may have to go?

It should be months... Maybe 6 months with how slow this covid thing has the courts.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Do HCG, while esters clear. While esters clear, and while running HCG, run aromasin to reduce estrogen. Once esters are fully clear dose GNRH, 100mcg, once, and stop HCG. Then begin clomid 50mg ED for 4 to 6 weeks.

 

[Whisky]

There’s a popular restart protocol (spurfy maybe wrote it?) that I can’t recall exactly but I think was

HCG (15,000iu approx over a couple of weeks)
Clomid at 150mg (again not sure exactly but it was high in the early stages) dropping down to 50mg a day
Asin, can’t recall when in the plan this was

worth searching for it if you can as it seemed to be pretty successful. Dr Dean st. Mart is the other guy it might have been.

 

[sloganslimms]

There’s a popular restart protocol (spurfy maybe wrote it?) that I can’t recall exactly but I think was

HCG (15,000iu approx over a couple of weeks)
Clomid at 150mg (again not sure exactly but it was high in the early stages) dropping down to 50mg a day
Asin, can’t recall when in the plan this was

worth searching for it if you can as it seemed to be pretty successful. Dr Dean st. Mart is the other guy it might have been.

I guess I'm prolly leaning towards something like this. No Nolva though? And how do you space the hcg?

 

[BBiceps]

There’s a popular restart protocol (spurfy maybe wrote it?) that I can’t recall exactly but I think was

HCG (15,000iu approx over a couple of weeks)
Clomid at 150mg (again not sure exactly but it was high in the early stages) dropping down to 50mg a day
Asin, can’t recall when in the plan this was

worth searching for it if you can as it seemed to be pretty successful. Dr Dean st. Mart is the other guy it might have been.

That’s insane amounts, it’s unnecessary. HCG at 250iu (could been 500iu’s, I don’t remember but it was not much) x2 week for the first 4 weeks and 50mg of Clomid for first 2 weeks and then continue with 25mg of Clomid for 4 to 6 weeks was all I needed to get off from 3,5 yrs of TRT and got my sperm from “too low to measure” to making babies.

 

[BBiceps]

I guess I'm prolly leaning towards something like this. No Nolva though? And how do you space the hcg?

Don’t do that protocol, unless you want major estro sides when you get locked up with a bunch of men...

 

[Nac]

I dont think Spurfy wouldve recommended high doses of clomid, sounds more like Dr Scally.

 

[Hyde]

Ask 10 guys and you’ll get 10 dose/length recommendations (based on preference and what we have found to work for each of us) but the gist is run HCG and probably some exemestane while you let gear clear, then push SERMs like Clomid, Nolva, or Torem for probably at least 6 weeks. You can stack SERMs or just use one, but I would not go with the lowest possible dose. None of that 20/20/10/10 Nolva or 25x4 weeks Clomid crap you see because someone using a prohormone for 4 weeks only had enough cash for one bottle of research chem. You need this to work and you won’t have time for a second attempt later if they come for you, so do it right the first time.

 

[dvw]

Run clomid from now till the day you get locked up. Run 100 mg daily first 10 days then 50 mg for 20 days then 25 mgs for 30 days. After that run 12.5 mgs everyday indefinitely. I'd recommend a mild over the counter AI like SNS inhibit e or Iron legion virtus at .5 ml.

 

[Whisky]

I dont think Spurfy wouldve recommended high doses of clomid, sounds more like Dr Scally.

I think it was dean st mart but scally power pct is also well known/regarded and similar

 

[Whisky]

That’s insane amounts, it’s unnecessary. HCG at 250iu (could been 500iu’s, I don’t remember but it was not much) x2 week for the first 4 weeks and 50mg of Clomid for first 2 weeks and then continue with 25mg of Clomid for 4 to 6 weeks was all I needed to get off from 3,5 yrs of TRT and got my sperm from “too low to measure” to making babies.

it’s wonderful that worked for you but in the same way that some guys can bounce back with zero pct really quickly, it’s not helpful to the OP to suggest something where you could simply be an outlier.

you worked through your recovery with a doctor who was monitoring all the way (according to when you posted this in 2018 as well).

even coming off a normal cycle (rather than pct) the standard usage of hcg (if not used throughout the cycle) is between 5,000 and 10,000 iu in the first couple of weeks. Your ability to bounce back and get your wife pregnant (congrats on that) isn’t standard.

I found Michael Skellys power pct (op - this is a noted endocrinologist - it may not be his latest version as he continually updates but this ones from 2016) which is similar


Phase 1:
HCG 2500iu EOD for 16 days

Phase 2:
Clomid 50mg twice daily for 30 days
Tamoxifen 20mg daily for 30 days

Phase 3:
Tamoxifen 20mg daily for 15 more days

As you don’t have the luxury of a long time and a doctor to manage it I’d personally go this route but as ever, do your own research rather than taking the words of juice heads on a forum

 

[BBiceps]

it’s wonderful that worked for you but in the same way that some guys can bounce back with zero pct really quickly, it’s not helpful to the OP to suggest something where you could simply be an outlier.

you worked through your recovery with a doctor who was monitoring all the way (according to when you posted this in 2018 as well).

even coming off a normal cycle (rather than pct) the standard usage of hcg (if not used throughout the cycle) is between 5,000 and 10,000 iu in the first couple of weeks. Your ability to bounce back and get your wife pregnant (congrats on that) isn’t standard.

I found Michael Skellys power pct (op - this is a noted endocrinologist - it may not be his latest version as he continually updates but this ones from 2016) which is similar


Phase 1:
HCG 2500iu EOD for 16 days

Phase 2:
Clomid 50mg twice daily for 30 days
Tamoxifen 20mg daily for 30 days

Phase 3:
Tamoxifen 20mg daily for 15 more days

As you don’t have the luxury of a long time and a doctor to manage it I’d personally go this route but as ever, do your own research rather than taking the words of juice heads on a forum

True, having a Dr monitor everything helped and with monthly blood tests it was easy to know what worked, also, all my stuff was from the pharmacy and with UG stuff you never really know the true quality/mg. If I would of used UG stuff I would probably do higher amounts.

To OP, Scratch all our recommendations and get with a Dr that can help you get OFF, otherwise it’s just a guessing game and you can’t afford that.

 

[Mathb33]

Whatever you end up doing I’d make sure I do something before ending up in jail. Even if a protocol brings you back to 300ish TT it’s still better than crashing right in jail with 0 tests and having to let your test POSSIBLY recover with months and months. That’d litterally the worst thing ever.

 

[sloganslimms]

I really appreciate all the input that's gone into this thread. You're right, this may be a one time shot deal and I might not have time to go another root if things don't work out and I gotta spend a little time up the road.
Since I dont usually run a pct, I dont have anything on hand except AI's like arimedex and exemestane...

So I'll have to get HCG for sure, and maybe both (clomid and nolva)?

Is that what the group consensus was?

Also, that is definitely a Scally power PCT... or something very similar.

I have a doctor, not an endocrinologist that prescribes my trt, so I can get bloods done. I just dont think hes gonna write me scripts for breat cancer drugs and off label uses of hcg. I guess it doesnt hurt to just be honest with him and tell him my timeline and see what happens. Maybe he'll refer me to an endocrinologist that's got some experience getting people restarted after significant amounts of time shut down.

I'm scared bros and I appreciate all the help.

 

[sloganslimms]

Do HCG, while esters clear. While esters clear, and while running HCG, run aromasin to reduce estrogen. Once esters are fully clear dose GNRH, 100mcg, once, and stop HCG. Then begin clomid 50mg ED for 4 to 6 weeks.

I haven't really heard a lot about gnrh. Is this used commonly for a restart? Sounds pretty good from what I just looked up. I know nothing about it.

 

[sloganslimms]

True, having a Dr monitor everything helped and with monthly blood tests it was easy to know what worked, also, all my stuff was from the pharmacy and with UG stuff you never really know the true quality/mg. If I would of used UG stuff I would probably do higher amounts.

To OP, Scratch all our recommendations and get with a Dr that can help you get OFF, otherwise it’s just a guessing game and you can’t afford that.

Your prolly right bro... I'm just scared the doc isn't gonna buy into a restart protocol like I probably need with HCG and tamoxifen and clomid. But I can be honest with him and at least get bloods to see how its working out.

 

[sloganslimms]

Ask 10 guys and you’ll get 10 dose/length recommendations (based on preference and what we have found to work for each of us) but the gist is run HCG and probably some exemestane while you let gear clear, then push SERMs like Clomid, Nolva, or Torem for probably at least 6 weeks. You can stack SERMs or just use one, but I would not go with the lowest possible dose. None of that 20/20/10/10 Nolva or 25x4 weeks Clomid crap you see because someone using a prohormone for 4 weeks only had enough cash for one bottle of research chem. You need this to work and you won’t have time for a second attempt later if they come for you, so do it right the first time.

And you're definitely right... I've been completely shut down for a number of years. So I guess then it would make sense to go high on the serms and taper down for as long as possible.
The only part i was unsure about was using the aromasin while I'm letting the gear clear (Go ahead and start running the hcg and aromasin) while its clearing?
That would make sense right?

 

[ValiantThor08]

I haven't really heard a lot about gnrh. Is this used commonly for a restart? Sounds pretty good from what I just looked up. I know nothing about it.

Good if you take the right dose. 100mcg. Take too much, and you will chemically castrate yourself. Was a big novel thing about a decade ago. But something to seriously consider if wanting to restart post TRT.

 

[ValiantThor08]

And you're definitely right... I've been completely shut down for a number of years. So I guess then it would make sense to go high on the serms and taper down for as long as possible.
The only part i was unsure about was using the aromasin while I'm letting the gear clear (Go ahead and start running the hcg and aromasin) while its clearing?
That would make sense right?

Yes, run the HCG and aromasin while test is clearing. And even run aromasin during the beginning of PCT. Low E2 will let the body know it should be ramping up test production.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

lemme play devils advocate here...
get jacked as fuk right up til u go in and the last chance pin like 3 sust 250's... get strung out hard on some opiates too so u crash hard and get a really bad additude... 1 st few days you can set off "the leave me the fek alone" vibe or i will kill ya thing.. then about 2 months later u grow a nice set of boobs so you can call who gets the syrup or not... win/win?

 

[sloganslimms]

lemme play devils advocate here...
get jacked as fuk right up til u go in and the last chance pin like 3 sust 250's... get strung out hard on some opiates too so u crash hard and get a really bad additude... 1 st few days you can set off "the leave me the fek alone" vibe or i will kill ya thing.. then about 2 months later u grow a nice set of boobs so you can call who gets the syrup or not... win/win?

Booooooooooo!

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Booooooooooo!

whats not to like? u get the best of both worlds~~

 

[Whisky]

lemme play devils advocate here...
get jacked as fuk right up til u go in and the last chance pin like 3 sust 250's... get strung out hard on some opiates too so u crash hard and get a really bad additude... 1 st few days you can set off "the leave me the fek alone" vibe or i will kill ya thing.. then about 2 months later u grow a nice set of boobs so you can call who gets the syrup or not... win/win?

from what I’ve heard its easier to get gear in uk prisons than food. Now you might be 5th in line for the pin but gear itself by all accounts no issue.....

so you could gamble, go in juices and just carry on......

 

[Hyde]

And you're definitely right... I've been completely shut down for a number of years. So I guess then it would make sense to go high on the serms and taper down for as long as possible.
The only part i was unsure about was using the aromasin while I'm letting the gear clear (Go ahead and start running the hcg and aromasin) while its clearing?
That would make sense right?

Correct.

You are using the aromasin BECAUSE all the HCG you are using will be driving up estrogen, and high estrogen after you stop the HCG will tell your pituitary it doesn’t need to produce Leutinizing Hormone (LH), which would be a bad thing at that point because that’s when your gear has cleared.

 

[manifesto]

I would think the prison doctors could prescribe test for your hypogonadism...probably a 200mg every two weeks deal, but better than nothing

 

[sloganslimms]

from what I’ve heard its easier to get gear in uk prisons than food. Now you might be 5th in line for the pin but gear itself by all accounts no issue.....

so you could gamble, go in juices and just carry on......

I'm in the US though.

 

[dvw]

I would think the prison doctors could prescribe test for your hypogonadism...probably a 200mg every two weeks deal, but better than nothing

Hahaha definitely not

 

[manifesto]

Its a medical condition....and I've heard of guys receiving TRT while incarcerated

 

[manifesto]

The last thing any state run penitentiary wants is a lawsuit for failing to treat a prisoner with legitimate hygonadism, which yoy undoubtedly have once you come off...just make sure your test levels are bottomed out before you go in

 

[Whisky]

The last thing any state run penitentiary wants is a lawsuit for failing to treat a prisoner with legitimate hygonadism, which yoy undoubtedly have once you come off...just make sure your test levels are bottomed out before you go in

could blast some trest between now and then just to make really fucking sure

 

[sloganslimms]

The last thing any state run penitentiary wants is a lawsuit for failing to treat a prisoner with legitimate hygonadism, which yoy undoubtedly have once you come off...just make sure your test levels are bottomed out before you go in

The last thing any penitentiary wants is more testosterone in its inmates. But I like the way you think.

 

[sloganslimms]

Correct.

You are using the aromasin BECAUSE all the HCG you are using will be driving up estrogen, and high estrogen after you stop the HCG will tell your pituitary it doesn’t need to produce Leutinizing Hormone (LH), which would be a bad thing at that point because that’s when your gear has cleared.

How low do I need E2? Are we talking 12.5mg EOD? That's about what I run on 500 mg of test a week. Do I wanna be bottomed out or just keep it in range? How much does HCG effect E2?

 

[Hyde]

How low do I need E2? Are we talking 12.5mg EOD? That's about what I run on 500 mg of test a week. Do I wanna be bottomed out or just keep it in range? How much does HCG effect E2?

Jeezus Christo guy, I’m not a doctor or a fortune teller - just a bro on the internet

I can’t tell you how much AI you “need” because people guys aromatize differently. But the aromatization from HCG is largely in the testes, and the AI can’t prevent that, so you can only really limit total estrogen by preventing the already circulating test from aromatizing. HCG also effects guys estrogen differently, but you can bet the larger you decide to dose the more it will raise estrogen for you.

You do ideally want to be closer to bottomed out than healthy/balanced, so I would PERSONALLY at least maintain your current AI dose or increase it, depending on how you seem to respond to HCG (pay attention to your water retention or if your erections become limp).

For me, if I take even 250iu of HCG I need an extra weekly dose of 12.5mg exemestane. On 400 test and 500iu HCG per week I took 3 doses of 12.5mg exem. I have high bodyfat and aromatize pretty significantly.

 

[sloganslimms]

Jeezus Christo guy, I’m not a doctor or a fortune teller - just a bro on the internet

I can’t tell you how much AI you “need” because people guys aromatize differently. But the aromatization from HCG is largely in the testes, and the AI can’t prevent that, so you can only really limit total estrogen by preventing the already circulating test from aromatizing. HCG also effects guys estrogen differently, but you can bet the larger you decide to dose the more it will raise estrogen for you.

You do ideally want to be closer to bottomed out than healthy/balanced, so I would PERSONALLY at least maintain your current AI dose or increase it, depending on how you seem to respond to HCG (pay attention to your water retention or if your erections become limp).

For me, if I take even 250iu of HCG I need an extra weekly dose of 12.5mg exemestane. On 400 test and 500iu HCG per week I took 3 doses of 12.5mg exem. I have high bodyfat and aromatize pretty significantly.

Awesome... I know some of it is bro-science and labs are likely the only way to know what dose. I just wondered if really low estrogen helped restart the hpta. I know you never want too much, I just wasn't sure if there was such a thing as too little.

 

[manifesto]

Prisons prescibe TRT.....how many times must I say this

 

[manifesto]

If you have insurance and an actual doc...it would probably pay to get an actual low T diagnosis before you go in..if u haven't already

 

[sloganslimms]

If you have insurance and an actual doc...it would probably pay to get an actual low T diagnosis before you go in..if u haven't already

I find it very hard to believe that they would continue my trt incarcerated. I've definitely been tested and am all the way shut down. I switched docs in the past year and got tested by the new doc after not taking a shot for 3 weeks and had a total T of 80 ng/dl... Soooo, I'm pretty shut down, lol.

 

[sloganslimms]

Not only that, but doctors prescribe me test on the extremely high range of 200 mg per week. Apparently I metabolize it quickly or something. I've never needed an AI on trt of 200mg/week.

 

[Hyde]

Awesome... I know some of it is bro-science and labs are likely the only way to know what dose. I just wondered if really low estrogen helped restart the hpta. I know you never want too much, I just wasn't sure if there was such a thing as too little.

Yeah the studies showing the greatest effect using Exemestane to help restart were taking something like 25mg every day - my bones hurt just thinking about it. BUT lower is generally better for that specific purpose, so you won’t overdo it.

Just remember the goal is to be restarted and eventually achieve balance by the time you go in - you don’t want tons of AI for a long period.

 

[TheBigJS]

Not only that, but doctors prescribe me test on the extremely high range of 200 mg per week. Apparently I metabolize it quickly or something. I've never needed an AI on trt of 200mg/week.

I ran T (self prescribed) at 250mg for years, and NHS tested at "only" 700ng/DL 7 days post injection. I've also run that dose and Tren with no AI without a problem. 250lb+, 6' tall, visible abs. The only time I've even got itchy nips is on poxy SARMS!

Now on Nebido, NHS prescribed, all above board, 1000mg every 12 weeks, tested at trough (ie 12 weeks post injection) 450ng/DL. And everything is fine. Am I smaller? Yes by about 40lb (& fatter), am I weaker? Yes, deadlift down by 150lb+. But I'm ok, things are good for me.

So (IMHO) the fact you can take high doses without seeing superphyological levels or side effects does not mean you cannot handle and live with low doses.

 

[Whisky]

I ran T (self prescribed) at 250mg for years, and NHS tested at "only" 700ng/DL 7 days post injection. I've also run that dose and Tren with no AI without a problem. 250lb+, 6' tall, visible abs. The only time I've even got itchy nips is on poxy SARMS!

Now on Nebido, NHS prescribed, all above board, 1000mg every 12 weeks, tested at trough (ie 12 weeks post injection) 450ng/DL. And everything is fine. Am I smaller? Yes by about 40lb (& fatter), am I weaker? Yes, deadlift down by 150lb+. But I'm ok, things are good for me.

So (IMHO) the fact you can take high doses without seeing superphyological levels or side effects does not mean you cannot handle and live with low doses.

sorry for the derail but how easy was it to get on via the NHS bro. I’m also in the UK. Currently B and C but expecting to attempt to get prescribed trt in the next year or so.

I had heard it was much harder in the uk and they try not to if they can avoid it?

 

[sloganslimms]

I ran T (self prescribed) at 250mg for years, and NHS tested at "only" 700ng/DL 7 days post injection. I've also run that dose and Tren with no AI without a problem. 250lb+, 6' tall, visible abs. The only time I've even got itchy nips is on poxy SARMS!

Now on Nebido, NHS prescribed, all above board, 1000mg every 12 weeks, tested at trough (ie 12 weeks post injection) 450ng/DL. And everything is fine. Am I smaller? Yes by about 40lb (& fatter), am I weaker? Yes, deadlift down by 150lb+. But I'm ok, things are good for me.

So (IMHO) the fact you can take high doses without seeing superphyological levels or side effects does not mean you cannot handle and live with low doses.

Maybe... However, that's what the doc's decided after trying me on lower dosages and increasing from 100 mg to 150 mg... Then finally upping me to 200 mg.

 

[TheBigJS]

sorry for the derail but how easy was it to get on via the NHS bro. I’m also in the UK. Currently B and C but expecting to attempt to get prescribed trt in the next year or so.

I had heard it was much harder in the uk and they try not to if they can avoid it?

Real easy for me, I had a pituitary tumour, so was under an endo to check my levels post surgery anyway. I confessed by previous PED use, he didn't care, said if your hormone levels don't return to normal (as can happen with pituitary surgery) you'll get whatever you need sorted. Luckily everything else came back, test didn't but it wasn't good years ago (I had a private test before any PED (other than andro's back in the day) use and it was sub 300ng/dl then.

Nebido - an NHS journey (UK) - AnabolicMinds.com

After a few years of self admin "TRT+" I've been off any anabolics for nearly a year (doctor's recommendation following surgery to remove a pituitary tumour). My levels were low years ago (220ng/dl) before I took anything, well that's not quite true I took the andro's etc back in the day when...

anabolicminds.com

 

[Whisky]

Real easy for me, I had a pituitary tumour, so was under an endo to check my levels post surgery anyway. I confessed by previous PED use, he didn't care, said if your hormone levels don't return to normal (as can happen with pituitary surgery) you'll get whatever you need sorted. Luckily everything else came back, test didn't but it wasn't good years ago (I had a private test before any PED (other than andro's back in the day) use and it was sub 300ng/dl then.

Nebido - an NHS journey (UK) - AnabolicMinds.com

After a few years of self admin "TRT+" I've been off any anabolics for nearly a year (doctor's recommendation following surgery to remove a pituitary tumour). My levels were low years ago (220ng/dl) before I took anything, well that's not quite true I took the andro's etc back in the day when...

anabolicminds.com

awesome, thanks

 

[sloganslimms]

Sooooo... Not that anyone is paying attention to this thread anymore, but your boy just got probation. WHAAAAAAT!?!?!
And it's a good fucking thing too cuz they spring court on me quickly and my HCG and **** hadn't even come in the mail yet.
Anyways, I know yall dont know me but I'm f***in stoked. Everyone have a great day!

 

[Rebuild]

Sooooo... Not that anyone is paying attention to this thread anymore, but your boy just got probation. WHAAAAAAT!?!?!
And it's a good fucking thing too cuz they spring court on me quickly and my HCG and **** hadn't even come in the mail yet.
Anyways, I know yall dont know me but I'm f***in stoked. Everyone have a great day!

Congrats bro! Not sure what you were doing that you thought you'd be locked up for a few years, but hope you straighten things out.

 

[thebigt]

Sooooo... Not that anyone is paying attention to this thread anymore, but your boy just got probation. WHAAAAAAT!?!?!
And it's a good fucking thing too cuz they spring court on me quickly and my HCG and **** hadn't even come in the mail yet.
Anyways, I know yall dont know me but I'm f***in stoked. Everyone have a great day!

2nd chance, don't f*ck it up.