Marriage......An open discussion.

Dittohd

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No, I form my opinions based on in-depth discussions with prominent Feminists during my academic pursuits, using Feminist-methodology myself, and having a mother who was incredibly involved with Hermeneutic strains of Feminist-Constructionism insofar as interview and research dynamics. I do not believe everything I hear, but apparently you do. I also do not appreciate the belittling or condescending tone, as believe me, in this particular field, I will run circles around you. So let us keep the discussion civil and humble!

What you have expressed is very detached from the reality of the Feminist movement. Some research into the field would serve you well; that particular strain of social sciences has much to teach. I suggest you learn!





You honestly cannot think of one instance where men have superior rights over women? You may not be looking hard enough, here are a few points of consideration:

We operate in a capital system based on patriarchy. Property rights were primarily male; Judeo-Christian society as a whole is patriarchal.

1/4 women have experienced some form of sexual assault in their life.

Men have a far greater share of controlling interests in the world's largest TNC/NGOs/Fortune 500.

The top 5% of wage-earners are primarily male.

Political representation is yet primarily male.

Women are still perpetually objectified in the media (Killing Me Softly is a great documentary). This affects both males and females by perpetuating ignorant social attitudes.

Women comprise the majority percentage of the bottom 5% of wage-earners.

Women experience higher rates of AIDS in developing nations; far higher.

Women are subject to much higher rates of domestic violence. Both here and abroad.

Sexual mutilation (removing of labia and clitoris) is common practice in tribal communities. Castration, not so much.

I've had this same argument recently, and it went much as this one is turning out to be. A fiery sentiment about women's advantages, and then no evidence aside from unfair alimony settlements, and a few other legal issues. One needs to separate the ability to insist in certain bargaining situations, and power dynamics as a whole.

This is merely the tip of the iceberg, as I did not want to derail the thread further by going into an in-depth discussion of hegemonic masculinity. It's neither relevant to the discussion at hand, nor something I feel you would accept.
You seem to be mixing rights with attainment in most cases. Let's take your men's superior "rights" one by one.

We operate in a capital system based on patriarchy. Property rights were primarily male; Judeo-Christian society as a whole is patriarchal.

I don't see anything in our government system that is patriarchal. Our system is based on everyone voting. However our government is the way it is, it's primarily women's fault because they put the elected officials in office who are in office. Women vote in larger percentages than men do and they comprise 54% of the population. This is why the men in office create all the laws they do that favor women. Men may be in the higher positions but women are in charge. Our country is a matriarchy.

Although women may not have had full property rights in the past, anyone can own property today.

1/4 women have experienced some form of sexual assault in their life.

This is a right of men superior to women? How so? Women have the same right to rape men if they so desire. In fact, this could be argued as a superior right for women because women would never get the same punishment for raping a man as a man would get for raping a woman. This is well-known as the sentencing discount for women. Don't believe me? Let's compare the sentences women teachers are getting for raping their students these days as compared to the sentences that men are getting in the same circumstances.

Men have a far greater share of controlling interests in the world's largest TNC/NGOs/Fortune 500.

This of course is true but not because of government assigned rights. Men have the positions they have because they earned those positions. And if women want to whine that they are being discriminated again because they want these positions given to them rather than having to earn them, let them form their own business and put themselves into the positions they desire. I formed a non-profit corporation last October and made myself one of the three directors. Any woman can do the same thing. It only cost me $25 to file the papers with the Secretary of State. For Profit Corporations cost a lot more, but women have the same opportunities as men. The problem is most women put family and having children ahead of career. They also don't pick or shoot for (their choice) the tougher positions because they require more overtime and less time with family. They are not willing to sacrifice family time as readily as men are to support their families.

The top 5% of wage-earners are primarily male.

Again, this has nothing to do with government assigned rights but skill and tenaciousness and dedication to the job and working toward making more money. Again, women value time with family more than attainment of status and higher pay. Let's look in your field within the engineering departments of any college and see how many women as compared to men who are seeking these harder to attain but much higher paying jobs.

Political representation is yet primarily male.

This likewise has nothing to do with government assigned rights. In fact, this outcome is more attributable to women themselves than many others. First of all, women don't run for these political positions in the same numbers that men do. Second of all, women comprise about 54% of the population so if men are in these positions predominantly, it's because women voted them in. And even the 54% population number notwithstanding, the persons who actually vote are predominantly woman. So your statistic above is there totally because of women.

Women are still perpetually objectified in the media (Killing Me Softly is a great documentary). This affects both males and females by perpetuating ignorant social attitudes.

This also has nothing to do with government assigned rights. By the way, have you ever watched a situation comedy or rerun like "Everyone Loves Raymond"? Have you seen lately the V8 commercials that always have a woman hitting the man in the forehead because he didn't choose V8? Or the Subway commercial (I think it's Subway) where the husband (young guy) asks his wife if they can stop for a sandwich and she tells him no because they don't have time. Then the husband jumps up and down, crying that he want a sandwich. And the child yells at the father to shut up, Dad. What about the one where the father tries to help his child with her homework but is too stupid to accomplish this and the wife comes by and urges the father to leave the child alone after the child gives the mother a disgusted look concerning the father's apparent "meddling".

And lastly, objectifying? Suddenly women don't like being considered sexual objects? Have you noticed lately how many women these days walk around with their cleavage sticking out? Without sexual attraction, how else would a woman attract a man across the room? Give me a break!

By the way, you have never seen women objectifying men via their butts?

Women comprise the majority percentage of the bottom 5% of wage-earners.

This also has nothing to do with government assigned rights. Women work in the jobs that they attain the skills to hold, choose, and apply for. In fact, because of affirmative action and the dearth of women applicants, there are many higher paying career fields that pay women more than men applicants right out of college. Here's just a few:

1. Petroleum engineering
2. Chemical engineering
3. Computer engineering
4. Electrical/electronics & communications engineering
5. Mechanical engineering
6. Aerospace/aeronautical/astronautical engineering
7. Metallurgical engineering
8. Computer programming
9. Computer science
10.Engineering technology
11.Physics
12.Agricultural engineering
13.Computer systems analysis
14.Construction science/management
15.Business systems - networking/telecommunications

Women experience higher rates of AIDS in developing nations; far higher.

You assert that this also has to do with government assigned rights? Give me a break! I would strongly suspect this statistic, if true, is because women are more promiscuous than men. More women are having sex with the same, diseased promiscuous men. It is always easier for a woman to have sex whenever she wants it over a man. Let's take 10 women who go to a bar with the intent of having sex by the end of the night and compare that to a random sampling of 10 men who do the same thing with the same intentions. Who do you think will attain their objective more often? The men? Seems to me that women are now getting the result of their prized sexual freedom.

Women are subject to much higher rates of domestic violence. Both here and abroad.

I know, I know. This is also due to government assigned rights, right? So what if women are subject to higher rates of domestic violence. I thought that any domestic violence was always bad. The statistics I've heard lately say that women are just as violent as men, if not more so, especially at their younger ages. Lesbian couples experience more domestic violence than gay and heterosexual couples. But why are you fixed on or care that women are victims of domestic violence more often? How much domestic violence is OK? Is it really helpful in stopping domestic violence to argue over who does it more?

Sexual mutilation (removing of labia and clitoris) is common practice in tribal communities. Castration, not so much.

Again, nothing to do with government rights. By the way, let's compare the number of removings of labia and clitoris in women in the world to the numbers of men who these days who have their penis' foreskin removed. Both can be considered sexual mutilation. My foreskin was removed. So was my son's and both my grandson's. No women in my family have had their labia and clitoris removed. I'm assuming somewhat similar statistics in your family? Am I wrong? And by the way, in countries where they remove the labia and clitoris, it's the older women who do it, not the men. So again, it's women who are responsible.

I'm not going to go into a loooooong list of women-superior rights, but let's hit just the first six that come to mind:

1. Women have the right to falsely accuse men of rape without government punishment. Most prominent example in the news: Crystal Gayle Mangam and the Duke Lacross players.

2. Women have the right to lie to a man about who is the father of her child without punishment. And if the man, in most cases, doesn't figure it out on his own within a small window of time, he is assigned the obligation to pay child support even after the DNA proves him not the father. Women can apply for child support 17 years after the birth of the child and get forced back child support from the guy who didn't even know he was a father and had no hand in the child's upbringing for the previous 17 years.

3. Women have the right to say they have no idea who the father of their child is when in fact they do, and give the child up for adoption without asking the father if he wants custody of the child. When the father finally finds out what was done, tough! Too late! Doesn't matter that he had no way of knowing beforehand. The child has already been adopted and has bonded with the adoptive parents. Irreversible!

4. Women have the right to kill their baby without the approval of the father. It's just between the mother and her doctor. Men don't account for anything until she decides to keep the child and needs financial support. Then suddenly, he is the father, pay up! Be a man! You deadbeat! We can't live without you! Do the right thing!

5. If women have a baby and immediately decide they don't want to be a mother, government says she can drop the baby off at the nearest fire station or hospital. No problem! No repercussions. Let's see a guy try to get out of being a father if she has the child when he doesn't want one. And what if the guy wants custody of the child? Tough!

6. Women after divorce, have the right, without repercussion, to lie about and bad-mouth the ex-husband to his children, totally alienating his children from him until even they don't want to see him anymore. And those feelings in the children never go away, even after the children turn 18. The father's relationship with his children is totally destroyed forever in most cases.

I could go on and on, but I'll stop here before everyone's eyes start to glaze over. As a man who seems to support women's superiority and can spout such statistics as you do in that effort that don't even apply directly to the point in question, I think you should be ashamed of yourself. Being an academic, I stronly suspect that nothing I said comes as a surprise to you.

Cheeez! So much time wasted. Bye!
 
Mulletsoldier

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You seem to be mixing rights with attainment in most cases. Let's take your men's superior "rights" one by one.

We operate in a capital system based on patriarchy. Property rights were primarily male; Judeo-Christian society as a whole is patriarchal.

I don't see anything in our government system that is patriarchal. Our system is based on everyone voting. However our government is the way it is, it's primarily women's fault because they put the elected officials in office who are in office. Women vote in larger percentages than men do and they comprise 54% of the population. This is why the men in office create all the laws they do that favor women. Men may be in the higher positions but women are in charge. Our country is a matriarchy.
Property rights are a fundamental pretense of political capital; has nothing to do with voting, and the rest of what you conflated it with here.

1/4 women have experienced some form of sexual assault in their life.

This is a right of men superior to women? How so? Women have the same right to rape men if they so desire. In fact, this could be argued as a superior right for women because women would never get the same punishment for raping a man as a man would get for raping a woman. This is well-known as the sentencing discount for women. Don't believe me? Let's compare the sentences women teachers are getting for raping their students these days as compared to the sentences that men are getting in the same circumstances.
Rights are not merely of rational-legal form, but of basic interpersonal rights. I would consider the right to safety, and the right to sexual expression important ones. Apparently you don't.

Men have a far greater share of controlling interests in the world's largest TNC/NGOs/Fortune 500.

This of course is true but not because of government assigned rights. Men have the positions they have because they earned those positions. And if women want to whine that they are being discriminated again because they want these positions given to them rather than having to earn them, let them form their own business and put themselves into the positions they desire. I formed a non-profit corporation last October and made myself one of the three directors. Any woman can do the same thing. It only cost me $25 to file the papers with the Secretary of State. For Profit Corporations cost a lot more, but women have the same opportunities as men. The problem is most women put family and having children ahead of career. They also don't pick or shoot for (their choice) the tougher positions because they require more overtime and less time with family. They are not willing to sacrifice family time as readily as men are to support their families.
Again, not sure you understand the term rights.

The top 5% of wage-earners are primarily male.

Again, this has nothing to do with government assigned rights but skill and tenaciousness and dedication to the job and working toward making more money. Again, women value time with family more than attainment of status and higher pay. Let's look in your field within the engineering departments of any college and see how many women as compared to men who are seeking these harder to attain but much higher paying jobs.
See above.

Political representation is yet primarily male.

This likewise has nothing to do with government assigned rights. In fact, this outcome is more attributable to women themselves than many others. First of all, women don't run for these political positions in the same numbers that men do. Second of all, women comprise about 54% of the population so if men are in these positions predominantly, it's because women voted them in. And even the 54% population number notwithstanding, the persons who actually vote are predominantly woman. So your statistic above is there totally because of women.
See above.

I didn't go through the rest, as you horribly misinterpreted my post, and the word 'rights', and there was really nothing of substantive nature to debate there. It seems you cannot reconcile that not all rights are government mitigated. Nor are advantages solely expressed through governmental sanctioning; quite the opposite, in fact.

It would seem you also skipped the part where I said:

One needs to separate the ability to insist in certain bargaining situations, and power dynamics as a whole.
Which is understandable because its not conducive to making your point. The power in very specific rational-legal situations (which were all Western-based, btw) is very different from a culture of hegemonic masculinity. You're muddying the issues here.
 
Mulletsoldier

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And as I said, alimony and parental issues are very disconcerting - this is something I recognized right off the bat. However, aside from that, and despite your assertion of 'having much more', your argument is very thin.

This is all really aside from the point at hand, and predictably your only defense was unfair family court decisions, and decisions based around parental rights. Things I have already mentioned. I'll reiterate:

One needs to separate the ability to insist in certain bargaining situations, and power dynamics as a whole.
To add, I'm not sure you grasped the purpose in mentioning something like the high incidents of sexual abuse, for example. Such unfathomably high sexual assault rates are indicative of sexual attitudes towards women, insofar as men feeling they have a sense of entitlement to them. Last I checked, that process is called objectification, but what do I know? :rolleyes:

Or women comprising the majority share of the lowest 5% of wage-earners is indicative of the place of women globally, and the massive improvements needing to be made from a global perspective; as well as predominant attitudes pertaining to their place in the primary economy of many developing nations. Why is it that Americans cannot see beyond their own borders in most manners? (asking for real, no offense intended).

EDIT:

I honestly have no interest in carrying on the current line of discussion; not all things can be wrapped up neat-and-tidy with statistical data, and I don't necessarily feeling like expounding the issue any further. It is a very complex and convoluted one, with balanced points on each side. As well, if you did not understand my initial post, any further explanation to you of the issue would be in the same light: I am far too lazy for that type of discussion.

Have fun with this, but I'll reiterate one last time in hopes you'll understand the difference between rights which are indicative of cultural attitudes as a whole, and specific rational-legal rights:

One needs to separate the ability to insist in certain bargaining situations, and power dynamics as a whole
 
bpmartyr

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You went through all that to prove that the divorce rate may not be over 50% but "only" 41%? And you feel that that changes everything? Anything?

OK. Let's assume you're right. So? And what is being left out and not being shown of the 41% statistic because the researcher you quote also has an agenda? Is there really much of a difference between 50% and 41% in this case?
:cheers:

Did I infer that it changes everything? I think not. Was I implying that it changes something? Yes, roughly 9%.

Do YOU not have an agenda?

I was simply giving some input on what I believe to be a misrepresentation of statistics. If you don't believe ~ 9% is statistically insignificant then fine, continue to quote 50%. But in reality, 1/2 of all marriages do not end in divorce; perhaps 2/5 would be a bit more accurate.

If you truly believe 9% is insignificant, I strongly recommend steering away from a career in engineering, navigation, chemistry etc. and don't forget political polls. :D
 
Iron Warrior

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BTW, would I still be screwed if I had a live in gf and we had kids but she wanted to bolt from the relationship ? Would she keep the house, kids, and get alimony on top of child support ?
 
dsade

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BTW, would I still be screwed if I had a live in gf and we had kids but she wanted to bolt from the relationship ? Would she keep the house, kids, and get alimony on top of child support ?
Probaby not alimony, but this is highly dependent on the state in which you live.

the rest...yeah, you would most likely get screwed, IME.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Yeah, I believe most states and provinces have common-law liabilities on the books; you'd still be unfairly screwed.
 
Palo Alto Labs

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How many American marriages end in divorce? One in two, if you believe the statistic endlessly repeated in news media reports, academic papers and campaign speeches.

The figure is based on a simple - and flawed - calculation: the annual marriage rate per 1,000 people compared with the annual divorce rate. In 2003, for example, there were 7.5 marriages per 1,000 people and 3.8 divorces, according to the National Center for Health Statistics.

But researchers say that this is misleading because the people who are divorcing in any given year are not the same as those who are marrying, and that the statistic is virtually useless in understanding divorce rates. In fact, they say, studies find that the divorce rate in the United States has never reached one in every two marriages, and new research suggests that, with rates now declining, it probably never will.

The method preferred by social scientists in determining the divorce rate is to calculate how many people who have ever married subsequently divorced. Counted that way, the rate has never exceeded about 41 percent, researchers say. Although sharply rising rates in the 1970's led some to project that the number would keep increasing, the rate has instead begun to inch downward.
Not directed at bpmartyr, but the people who question his post.

We are not talking about 9%... we are talking about 9% at WORST ODDS.

Also ... take this into consideration... something like 60% of people cheat during marriage... funny... this sorta coincides with the number of divorces. so dont cheat and you have a MUCH greater chance of sticking together.
Alot of these statistics neglect WHY the people get divorced. We cannot compare numbers and blame women and be one sided saying that they get everything unless we take into consideration the reason why the 35-40% of marriages divorce.
 
Trauma1

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Most states don't recognize the common-law marriage anymore. However, if a couple meets the requirements for a common law marriage in a state that does recognize common law marriages, and the couple then moves to a state that does not have common law marriages, the new state will usually recognize the 'common law' marriage.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Alot of these statistics neglect WHY the people get divorced. We cannot compare numbers and blame women and be one sided saying that they get everything unless we take into consideration the reason why the 35-40% of marriages divorce.
Exactly!

There, at least in my opinion, are usually two levels of common analysis:

a) Step one: recognize an issue, or seemingly correlative/causative relationship between two variable/agents

b) Step two: disseminate the issue, and recognize neither agent/variable is a static entity, but a combination of mutually reflexive parts. Realize the depth and breadth of catalysts and effects.

Step b) separates analyses like our friend Ditthod here from a more balanced view; step one is seeing advantageous clauses in certain legal situations for women; step two is separating those very particular advantages from culturally indicative advantages.
 
Trauma1

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Where did some of you married guys/gals go on your honeymoon?

We hit up hawaii for 10 days. It was Oahu'(Mainly wikiki') for 3 days and Maui(Western side of island) for 7 days. God how i wish i could have stayed there forever. It's like florida to me, but WAYYYY better. :)

Seeing Pearl Harbor was amazing all in itself. I'm a fairly big WW2 buff, and being able to see that incredible landmark was an unforgettable experience. We really had a fantastic time. The plane ride however is SO FREAKIN' long! It was well worth the horrible wait though imo.

This was actually my second time to hawaii. I went for 8 days(Oahu',Big Island, Kaui') after i graduated nursing school to relax and have fun before my boards.
 

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Where did some of you married guys/gals go on your honeymoon?

We hit up hawaii for 10 days. It was Oahu'(Mainly wikiki') for 3 days and Maui(Western side of island) for 7 days. God how i wish i could have stayed there forever. It's like florida to me, but WAYYYY better. :)

Seeing Pearl Harbor was amazing all in itself. I'm a fairly big WW2 buff, and being able to see that incredible landmark was an unforgettable experience. We really had a fantastic time. The plane ride however is SO FREAKIN' long! It was well worth the horrible wait though imo.

This was actually my second time to hawaii. I went for 8 days(Oahu',Big Island, Kaui') after i graduated nursing school to relax and have fun before my boards.
the wife and I hit disney for 8 days. Yes I am a huge disney nerd as is my wife. I had only been there once before and that was after we had just gotten engaged. I truly think if I could live there, I would be dressed as goofy full time.

regarding pearl harbor, I have never been but its an interesting site with a lot of interesting facts about that day that have only started becoming clear over the past few years. FDR was a tad tricky
 
Trauma1

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the wife and I hit disney for 8 days. Yes I am a huge disney nerd as is my wife. I had only been there once before and that was after we had just gotten engaged. I truly think if I could live there, I would be dressed as goofy full time.

regarding pearl harbor, I have never been but its an interesting site with a lot of interesting facts about that day that have only started becoming clear over the past few years. FDR was a tad tricky
I LOVE disney myself brother, so you're definitely not alone. :D My wife and i are lucky enough to live 45 mins away. We hit it up at least 2 x year. It truly is an amazing place. My parents(who lived in ct at the time) had their honeymoon in disney as well.


Edit: This is Disney World in florida, not Disney Land in california i speak of. :)

I love the WW 2 history. I've been to the Iwo Jima Landmark as well. Awesome brother!
 

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I LOVE disney myself brother, so you're definitely not alone. :D My wife and i are lucky enough to live 45 mins away. We hit it up at least 2 x year. It truly is an amazing place. My parents(who lived in ct at the time) had their honeymoon in disney as well.
I would be scared to live so close, I might never go to work. I am like a big dumb kid when I am there. We took my daughter for the first time 2 years ago, and she fell in love. It was great.

Plus the rides kick a$$. If plane fare would go down I could go again.
 
Trauma1

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I would be scared to live so close, I might never go to work. I am like a big dumb kid when I am there. We took my daughter for the first time 2 years ago, and she fell in love. It was great.

Plus the rides kick a$$. If plane fare would go down I could go again.
Next time you're down this way, you let me know. ;)
 
Trauma1

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will do brother, we will do up disney right, watch out tower of terror and everest
Everytime i go on Tower of Terror i'm freaked out of my mind haha! Without a doubt man, it would be a great time. :)
 
Trauma1

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Here's a good question for the married folk:

So you're having a random arguement, how does it usually unfold? Is it a quick resolution with equal compromise on both ends, or a long drawn out process due to stubborn ways and other factors?

I realize that there are many different variables that can certainly add different dynamics into an arguement, so this is just a generalized question overall.

When i first met my wife, she was as stubborn as they come, and i'm so serious about that lol. I mean she wouldn't back down from her stance at all on almost anything. Over the years, we've really learned to very effectively communicate and compromise on any given situation....even the small stuff.

I now understand why this is so important to a successful marriage. It's truly made our marriage and absolute pleasure and i'm glad together we've learned and effectively changed the error of our ways.

However, in the early days, there were some long drawn out b*tch fests before we even understood how to communicate and compromise. I can remember my dad telling me years ago that in marriage, pick and choose your fights VERY wisely, and he was right. I'm really not a very arguementative person overall, but if someone pushes my buttons the irish temper comes out. :D

I remember i read a book with the wife before we got married entitled "Don't sweat the small things in marriage." It basically demonstrated how many arguements/fights arise from the most ridiculous situations and can be very easily avoided. Again, this tied in well to the advice my dad had given me. Learning to admit when we were wrong was no easy task, but was a very necessary one.

Now that i've rambled on for a bit, what are some of your observations/inputs in this regard? :)
 
Palo Alto Labs

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I LOVE disney myself brother, so you're definitely not alone. :D My wife and i are lucky enough to live 45 mins away. We hit it up at least 2 x year. It truly is an amazing place. My parents(who lived in ct at the time) had their honeymoon in disney as well.


Edit: This is Disney World in florida, not Disney Land in california i speak of. :)

I love the WW 2 history. I've been to the Iwo Jima Landmark as well. Awesome brother!
busch gardens FTW!!!!!!!!! I get bored at disney. I like to goto Busch during the off-season and ride the kumba and montuu over and over again (no lines!). their wooden rollercoaster is on of the best ive ever been on... but its borederline physically painful.
 
Trauma1

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busch gardens FTW!!!!!!!!! I get bored at disney. I like to goto Busch during the off-season and ride the kumba and montuu over and over again (no lines!). their wooden rollercoaster is on of the best ive ever been on... but its borederline physically painful.
Agreed - Busch gardens rocks too. I like epcot though. It has some great rides, and you get to drink around the world in the process. It doesn't get any better. :D
 
Palo Alto Labs

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Agreed - Busch gardens rocks too. I like epcot though. It has some great rides, and you get to drink around the world in the process. It doesn't get any better. :D
2 free beers per day at Busch at the brewery... plus they do beer school... basically you 'test' about a 6pack in under 45 mins. try a roller coaster or 2 after that!
 

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Agreed - Busch gardens rocks too. I like epcot though. It has some great rides, and you get to drink around the world in the process. It doesn't get any better. :D
and you can learn something at epcot if you really try.

I dont know how anyone can get bored, I am losing my mind that it has been 2 years.

In terms of tower of terror, I love that damn thing. Only Disney can set the ambience for a ride in a friggin hotel
 
Beau

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Seems like the word "marriage" has been redefined. It seems to have been altered (like everything else is these days) to accommodate the "whatever works for me" attitude. Sex outside of marriage, even if both parties are consenting, is simply the beginning of the end. Seems like I remember hearing a word for it.........oh yeah, adultery. I've been married for almost 11 years now and it gets better all the time. I have an awesome wife.
Adultery is the worst form of betrayal I can imagine. I've been through it twice; and no more.
 
Beau

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Back up now. Not condoning the previous argument, but dont go calling my faith a fraud. I can tolerate alot of things, and disrespect, but to attack someones faith is uncouth at best.

Adams
I agree.

The Bible makes the distinction between good and evil; and that is one reason many find fault with it. But it was never intended to be PC; nor should it ever be. It is the standard against which all others are to be measured, and that is how I try to use it - as a recipe for my life (and I fail - a lot).
 
Beau

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I'll offer some succinct thoughts:

1. Divorce is a terrible and financially ruinous process. Period. Despite that, it can be better than an awful marriage.

2. Children are devastated by divorce. Will they be more or less devastated than if the parents remained in-tact in an unhealthy relationship? Many say the kids are better of with a divorce, but that is not always true. Unhealthy can take many forms; some unhealthier than others. Most relationships have unhealthy components; but we shouldn't conclude that a marriage is worthless if it doesn't meet a 100% criteria. You can still get an "A" with 90%, right? So, it all depends.

3. A heartfelt and fully committed relationship is one in which each person makes their relationship the most important one on earth, and one in which each person makes the other the single most important person in their lives. Not the only person or relationship; but the most important one. That didn't exist for me - it couldn't because my ex is a narcissist.

4. The financial aspects of marriage only become most evident when the marriage fails. My wife had multiple affairs, and now I am rewarded by having to subsidize her immorality. Not a good deal; at least, for me.

5. Trust, love, respect, commitment, a willingness to try to be self-less when you feel like being selfish, and holding your mate in honor are are essential (at least to me). Certain things, like adultery, shatter all of them.

6. In my (admittedly Christian view) marriage is a covenant; a tri-party commitment between husband, wife and God.

7. Very few conditions warrant divorce. The Bible specifies only two conditions under which it may occur; but the Bible never says it should occur. Marriage was designed by God, divorce was designed by man.

Lastly, my Christian beliefs are an integral part of who I am, so I share them. Providing my view, in my honest opinion, isn't subjecting others to a list of "shoulds" or intolerantly ramming it down their throat as if it was the only option. The point is that it is the only option for me; and also one that I hope others might respectfully consider.
 
Usf97j4x4

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This also has nothing to do with government assigned rights. Women work in the jobs that they attain the skills to hold, choose, and apply for. In fact, because of affirmative action and the dearth of women applicants, there are many higher paying career fields that pay women more than men applicants right out of college. Here's just a few:

1. Petroleum engineering - women are not smart enough to be engineers
2. Chemical engineering - see above
3. Computer engineering - see above
4. Electrical/electronics & communications engineering - see above
5. Mechanical engineering - see above
6. Aerospace/aeronautical/astronautical engineering - see above
7. Metallurgical engineering - see above
8. Computer programming - Women are simply too stupid to understand computers
9. Computer science - see above
10.Engineering technology - it is a proven fact most women can not even spell "engineering"
11.Physics - If by physics you mean understand how to bake a cake then yes
12.Agricultural engineering - once again, women do not have the required intelligence
13.Computer systems analysis - Women are simply too stupid to understand computers
14.Construction science/management - Women are simply too stupid to understand computers
15.Business systems - networking/telecommunications - Women are simply too stupid to understand computers and telecommunication is too large a word for the female brain
Can I just comment on a few of these careers? Thanks.

Kidding ladies! hehe...
 
Usf97j4x4

Usf97j4x4

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I'll offer some succinct thoughts:

1. Divorce is a terrible and financially ruinous process. Period. Despite that, it can be better than an awful marriage.

2. Children are devastated by divorce. Will they be more or less devastated than if the parents remained in-tact in an unhealthy relationship? Many say the kids are better of with a divorce, but that is not always true. Unhealthy can take many forms; some unhealthier than others. Most relationships have unhealthy components; but we shouldn't conclude that a marriage is worthless if it doesn't meet a 100% criteria. You can still get an "A" with 90%, right? So, it all depends.

3. A heartfelt and fully committed relationship is one in which each person makes their relationship the most important one on earth, and one in which each person makes the other the single most important person in their lives. Not the only person or relationship; but the most important one. That didn't exist for me - it couldn't because my ex is a narcissist.

4. The financial aspects of marriage only become most evident when the marriage fails. My wife had multiple affairs, and now I am rewarded by having to subsidize her immorality. Not a good deal; at least, for me.

5. Trust, love, respect, commitment, a willingness to try to be self-less when you feel like being selfish, and holding your mate in honor are are essential (at least to me). Certain things, like adultery, shatter all of them.
6. In my (admittedly Christian view) marriage is a covenant; a tri-party commitment between husband, wife and God.

7. Very few conditions warrant divorce. The Bible specifies only two conditions under which it may occur; but the Bible never says it should occur. Marriage was designed by God, divorce was designed by man.

Lastly, my Christian beliefs are an integral part of who I am, so I share them. Providing my view, in my honest opinion, isn't subjecting others to a list of "shoulds" or intolerantly ramming it down their throat as if it was the only option. The point is that it is the only option for me; and also one that I hope others might respectfully consider.
Agree 100%
 

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