Ummm....can you point me to a falsified or funding biased study of any if the ingredients/products you listed?
The only people who know about IF either of those occurred - outright falsification (which I actually don't think is common) or a design to achieve a certain outcome, are the people involved with the study. I mean, you have a veritable 'who's who' in the evidence based community calling bs on wilson's FA study - but not even they can say it was outright influenced, because (i assume - i'm not a forensic accountant for research) it's impossible to know from the outside.
Like i said, i use hmb-ca because it's $1 a week. I've been out almost a month. I've noticed no regression, stagnation, and still improve at the same rate. So i'm probably done with it. BUT - to your point - IF i was a *very new* trainee, and not 5 years into training, i would probably use it for the first 6 months or so, because in newbs, it actually does something because the musculature is in such shock, it just repairs but doesn't grow right away.
That newb effect is discussed here, in yet another critique of wilson -
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/hmb/
Like every other "natty" (before hrt) I tried them ALL, for at least 2 months - some a lot longer -
bio-gro (jacobs)
epicatechin
phosphatidic acid (via soy lecithin) (wilson)
Rhaponticum
ara (wilson)
Saw nothing that made me go "holy crap, i'm buying this foreverrrrr!" just the same good progression that programming/periodization, sleep and food get you - just like all those jacked buff dudes in all sports of the 50's 60's etc... before even whey protein (other than milk) existed. (I doubt high school and college athletes at that time were fake natty's).
Look at it this way: if ma-huang were still legal as a dietary supplement - almost EVERYONE would be using it to lose body fat. Based on the bio-gro and hmb-fa company funded research (especially the hmb-fa second study!) you have THE TWO GREATEST NATTY ANABOLICS IN HISTORY:
bio-gro - 6.3lbs of muscle in 8 weeks.
hmb-fa - 16.3 to 18.7lbs of muscle in 12 weeks.
Those two are greater than ara and phophatidic acid by magnitudes.
So, are you guys taking them? If you are a believer in company funded research, then it should be a no brainer - 18.7lbs! And the cost is actually in line with other "natty anabolics" -
bio-gro - 30 days 29.99
clear muscle - 28 days $49.98
(based on bbcom pricing - cheaper elsewhere?)
Seems you'd have to be nuts not too - natty bb'ers buy everything! But not the two greatest muscle builders of all time?
I don't know if i have anything else, we could probably go back and forth forever - be very skeptical of company funded research when it comes to muscle building or fat loss - wait for, and then compare to other profit disinterested research (like with baking soda - who's trying to make a buck off that?) - you won't be missing much, if anything, is my opinion. Final word from me, but i'll read your stuff and thanks for the thought provoking dialogue!