i found this above on another site, i am NOT making any claim.
so you guys still love prop blends?
I am not taking a stance on this thread, but that was answered accurately already:Methylsynephrine in OEP???????????????
Also its not synepherine its methylsynephrine which is not found naturally in any of the plants listed on the label.
Hey Tim whats going on?Hi Matt! Long time no see!!
Regarding the weight issue.... rice flour. Yup. Rice flour. Are there any "fillers" listed on the label? If so, that makes up for it. If you're going to use a very small amount of ingredients and only cap that, then the caps are going to be very very tiny. (Think like this - hard for big meaty weightlifter hands to hold...) But, use a more standard sized cap and fill it with the fillers to fill it out, then you're in better hands. Why not put a little bit into a bigger cap and let there just be dead space in there? That wouldn't look good, now would it?
:trout:
Correct, and I am not bashing or defending USP either- depending on the consistency of the powder, flow characteristics, hydroscopicity of the ingredients, type of machinery to be used (based on run size), and several other factors, flow agents, glidants, lubricants, and/or fillers may or may not have to be used, and can take up a fairly sizeable amount of capsule space (or tablet, just depends on what you are using). You can run just about anything through a semi-automatic (Type 8) without them, but certain things will simply not run on an automatic capsule machine or tablet press without them, so they a necessity in mfg., especially when you get into product runs of over about 150,000.Hey Tim whats going on?
There are 2 things and I want to be clear Im not bashing or trying to help out USP in anyway. Just commenting because of experience.
There will be fillers and flow agents that add to the weight of the cap but are not accounted for in the weight of the formula.
Also lets say you have a 50% Green Tea extract for EGCG and you have 500mgs of GT or 250mgs of EGCG. As long as you are consistent with the entire label you can list the compounds in order of largest to smallest ACTIVE ingredient and not overall weight of the whole plant.
So using the above compound lets also say its going in a product that has guarana at 5% extract for caffeine and you want the dose of caffeine to be 200mgs. If you label by active EGCG would need to be before Caffeine but if you label by total plant weight Guarana would be before Green Tea.
By DSHEA you can do either but you have to do the same for the entire formula. Meaning you cant choose active on one compound cause it will look better and then choose total weight on another cause you are being cheap.
thats what im talking about, these rare exotic raws that are in the caps, but only at less than 0.1mg each.Maybe we should stop focusing on the filler and start focusing on the fact that this looks absurdly underdosed.
Maybe we should stop focusing on the filler and start focusing on the fact that this looks absurdly underdosed.
:blink:thats what im talking about, these rare exotic raws that are in the caps, but only at less than 0.1mg each.
now im trying to figure out what was in OEP that made me feel so hungry when i took it.
Like I said as long as you are consistent with each label.Correct, and I am not bashing or defending USP either- depending on the consistency of the powder, flow characteristics, hydroscopicity of the ingredients, type of machinery to be used (based on run size), and several other factors, flow agents, glidants, lubricants, and/or fillers may or may not have to be used, and can take up a fairly sizeable amount of capsule space (or tablet, just depends on what you are using). You can run just about anything through a semi-automatic (Type 8) without them, but certain things will simply not run on an automatic capsule machine or tablet press without them, so they a necessity in mfg., especially when you get into product runs of over about 150,000.
As far as the labeling, Sledge is dead-on, there are certain things you can do based on the amount of active ingredient in relation to extraction %. We go by total weight of the plant in the formulation and not by active due to extraction in the order of listing, but other companies choose to do it differently. Under DSHEA, they are both acceptable......
Are we overlooking the fact it has 100mg caffeine per capsule?Ive been taking OEP for around a week now, and it has shocked me at how stong it is! I take 2x in the morning and I couldnt imagine taking more, its more than enough for me, and im weighing in at 193 lbs so im not a small bloke...
that, and the fact that your getting 40mg of geranium in the 2 caps "hexstatic" was taking. thats pretty strong.Are we overlooking the fact it has 100mg caffeine per capsule?
correct me if im wrong but doesnt an average cup of coffee contain ~200mg of caffeine?? if so, then 100mg doesnt seem like much at all to have in a product like this....100mg of caffeine is not a lot.
thats all that was posted that i know of. the poster stated this.....Anyone have a shot of the full image with header info? So the lab can be called and verify they did an actual test?
That was conveniently left out......Anyone have a shot of the full image with header info? So the lab can be called and verify they did an actual test?
wrong. The rule is very simple: listed in order of predominance by weight. Period.Hey Tim whats going on?
There are 2 things and I want to be clear Im not bashing or trying to help out USP in anyway. Just commenting because of experience.
There will be fillers and flow agents that add to the weight of the cap but are not accounted for in the weight of the formula.
Also lets say you have a 50% Green Tea extract for EGCG and you have 500mgs of GT or 250mgs of EGCG. As long as you are consistent with the entire label you can list the compounds in order of largest to smallest ACTIVE ingredient and not overall weight of the whole plant.
So using the above compound lets also say its going in a product that has guarana at 5% extract for caffeine and you want the dose of caffeine to be 200mgs. If you label by active EGCG would need to be before Caffeine but if you label by total plant weight Guarana would be before Green Tea.
By DSHEA you can do either but you have to do the same for the entire formula. Meaning you cant choose active on one compound cause it will look better and then choose total weight on another cause you are being cheap.
Wouldn't you want the name of the lab (at the simpliest) to verify the test before commenting on the validity of the test before preaching it as gospel?I think as the op says ... The question of why there is an ingredient in there that is NOT stated on the label needs to be addressed...The fillers, underdosed ingredients or anything else should be discussed or debated later guys.
And its not about "its safe, it still works" or the "who cares" attitude, its a matter of principal when any company steps over the line and starts to spike a product or put something in even in small doses that the consumer is not aware of, brings the companys integrity, and honesty into serious question imho...Jus sayin.
Anyway hope we can get clarification on this.
Bad guess, you have to have reference standards for the extracts and you know this, but you are just rocking the boat.Im not defending the product at all but the cap weighs 300 because of fillers and plant material that USP isnt considering to make up the active amount (thats my guess on it).
Also its not synepherine its methylsynephrine which is not found naturally in any of the plants listed on the label.
I believe the big "issue" is that the product, (based on a lab test that doesnt show the name of the lab or who did the testing), is completely mislabeled as well as being spiked.
hi, thanks for posting in this thread.Bad guess, you have to have reference standards for the extracts and you know this, but you are just rocking the boat.
I haven't said that a verdict has been reached on this, I read your post just after I wrote mines, glad that you'll write up on this as theres some contraversary stirring up on this.Wouldn't you want the name of the lab (at the simpliest) to verify the test before commenting on the validity of the test before preaching it as gospel?
I would think so. Am i off base here to ask the consumer to be rational and logical?
I'm very intriqued by this reaction.
this isnt about it being strong or not, its about whats advertised on the label and whats in the ingredients, and how much of the ingredients are in the product.Is he a USP lab rep? i believe he is the owner and I stand by this product because ive used it and its far from underdosed. Its very strong. Anymore and it would be overkill
Agreed.Is he a USP lab rep? i believe he is the owner and I stand by this product because ive used it and its far from underdosed. Its very strong. Anymore and it would be overkill
Actually Im not, you should reread it. Listed in order of weight can be done by either as long as its the same. No one said anything about %.wrong. The rule is very simple: listed in order of predominance by weight. Period.
Listing percentage of extracts is optional.
Love how these company owners cameo in USPlabs threads.
I love it.
This response has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what I posted. Im not rocking any boat and as a matter of fact Ive posted that I think without knowing the lab this is useless.Bad guess, you have to have reference standards for the extracts and you know this, but you are just rocking the boat.
I dont know why you'd even bother posting a rebuttal to this.That was conveniently left out......
Doesn’t take much to get thrown under the bus.......
Who in the hell will spike a product with a "semi" legal ingredient at a dose similar to placebo.
borderline idiotic of the company and the consumer to believe...
I'm going to hit the gym and will post our full rebuttal tonight or early morning. Even though the fake lab test posted is shady as one can get.
this isnt an issue of weather OEP works or not, that isnt the point of this thread.I have used it, I liked it, I'd use it again. I am EXTREMELY hard to please when it comes to supplements and I probably have more logs run where I put down a companies product rather than ones where I promote it. I will say again....Oep works.
Debate all you want people...if you use it and don't feel it does anything for you....stop using it.
caffeine, geranium and methy-synephrine would be a nice stack, so yes it does add up. just that if this lab result is true the user was deceived on why it works.it still puzzles me how it get so many good reviews
doesnt add up
right, I can read what you posted.this isnt an issue of weather OEP works or not, that isnt the point of this thread.
I've had not one person who took this and talk about being hungry, out of 13 people that I know of.thats what im talking about, these rare exotic raws that are in the caps, but only at less than 0.1mg each.
now im trying to figure out what was in OEP that made me feel so hungry when i took it.
100mg per capsule, you are stating this as if it is a humongous amount or are you just stating facts because this is nowhere near a large amount.Are we overlooking the fact it has 100mg caffeine per capsule?
actually i ran into 4 others on the boards without looking for them, but this is going off topic.I've had not one person who took this and talk about being hungry, out of 13 people that I know of.
the reason i posted this wasnt to bash on usp, i just wanted to get feedback on something thats going on on another board over here, the board i love the most.right, I can read what you posted.
and if you read what I posted, what I said was you'd have to be less than intelligent to put your stock into an image that does not have any real information about where it came from and who made these findings. I mean seriously....the original poster was even worried about using their own name to post it. If this doesn't send you a red flag, you're special in a way I can't even begin to explain.
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