Is this as effective as ED but spread out over a longer period? I want to build lean mass slowly so my body will retain it better.
Consensus has slowly been changing as far as the proper protocol of igf use....It used to be PWO with the idea being the damaged muscles you just trained will have more receptors available then. I've seen the protocol slowly switching to pinning at non-training times, with that idea being that after training your more vascular/pumped/more blood in the area. If you pin into that environment, the igf, which mostly goes sytemic anyway, will have even less chance of having any stick around, due to the blood swelled capillaries sucking it out even more forcefully and quickly. I truly have no idea which is better. I've researched the PWO protocol with decent results, and plan to research micro-dosing in multiple pins at non-training times and I'll judge for myself which way is superior.Is this as effective as ED but spread out over a longer period? I want to build lean mass slowly so my body will retain it better.
Your pinning protocol; are you targeting the muscle you trained the previous day or the muscle you plan to train later that day?ive run igf several times the first few mainly post workout. recently ive switched things up and began pinning around 10 am consecutively on a 5 on 2 off protocol. this has worked much better for me
I would pin the muscle that I planned on training that day. The pump is unreal its really something you have to experience for yourself.Your pinning protocol; are you targeting the muscle you trained the previous day or the muscle you plan to train later that day?
Tried it any hated it, had to stop my chest workout.I would pin the muscle that I planned on training that day. The pump is unreal its really something you have to experience for yourself.
Hmmm how many mcg were you dosing? There was also about a 4 hour gap between the time i took my first shot and the time I trained.Tried it any hated it, had to stop my chest workout.
I was just about to ask the time-frame at which you did your pinning. I did 20mcg this morning around 9am then worked out at about 4. But I also took a 100mcg MGF (non-peg) about 15-20minutes preworkout. Then another 40mcg IGF PWO. I did find my strength higher than normal...dunno if it was MGF, placebo, or IGF this am.Hmmm how many mcg were you dosing? There was also about a 4 hour gap between the time i took my first shot and the time I trained.
Yea 60 mcg is a pretty solid dose of IGF I think you'll benefit from that quite well. If I were you, I'd keep the MGF to strictly post workout or at night somewhere in the 200 - 400 mcg range. Are you using just regular MGF or PEG MGF?I was just about to ask the time-frame at which you did your pinning. I did 20mcg this morning around 9am then worked out at about 4. But I also took a 100mcg MGF (non-peg) about 15-20minutes preworkout. Then another 40mcg IGF PWO. I did find my strength higher than normal...dunno if it was MGF, placebo, or IGF this am.
I've been thinking about the IGF PreWO and MGF PostWO. I just need to find a protocol and stick with it.
I'm not toooo interested in pumps as I already get insane pumps, I'm highly interested in the results though. And both methods seem to have pros and cons. And the 1/2 life of IGF PreWO makes it seem like it would still offer the benefits same as PostWO injection, just not quite as LOCALIZED...which is where my MGF would/will come into play.
Right now I have this:
IGF 20mcg upon waking M/W/F
IGF 40mcg PostWO M/W/F
MGF 100mcg T/T/S upon waking in bodypart trained previous day.
MGF 100mcg T/T Pre/Post workout in trained muscle.
Only thing I would change is the M/W/F IGF to PRE only and MGF POST only.
Your thoughts?
Can you elaborate. This a subject I'm interested in. What discernible differences can you articulate between pre and post workout dosing?ive run igf several times the first few mainly post workout. recently ive switched things up and began pinning around 10 am consecutively on a 5 on 2 off protocol. this has worked much better for me
Well duh lol... I was only saying that it gave a great pump deff not the reason I chose to run it... My main goals with using it were to bring up lagging body (chest and calves). I knew before hand that I would not experience immediate gains like with AAS but thats not what IGF is intended for. I was more interested in the growth that would take place a few months down the road.In my opinion anyone making a decision on usage of IGF-1 by determining when they get the best "pump" out of it is using it incorrectly. IGF-1 should be used to induce "hyperplasia," i.e. the creation of new muscle cells. If it is used for any other purpose i.e. pumps, fatloss, etc. you are using it for the WRONG reasons. The best results in hyperplasia have seem to come from Post workout or some who run it pre workout. (Pre or Post workout pinning, the idea is that the receptors are upgregulated immediately after the workout... some disagree as to which method of administration is more ideal in that regard)
BEAST
The only thing I can really say for sure is that I've experienced more soreness and growth from dosing pre workout however some people prefer post. Its really a matter of preference you just have to figure out what works for you.Can you elaborate. This a subject I'm interested in. What discernible differences can you articulate between pre and post workout dosing?
Agreed. 40 is the sweet spot for me too. I went as high as 120 and didnt see any difference.40mcg.. anything over is pointless IMO. 40mcg works amazing, I saw no difference with 40, and 100 which was the max I've went in my lifetime.
Only so many receptors, i guessAgreed. 40 is the sweet spot for me too. I went as high as 120 and didnt see any difference.
Regular MGF. I've been doing 100mcg total PostWO and morning after in muscle trained previous day.Yea 60 mcg is a pretty solid dose of IGF I think you'll benefit from that quite well. If I were you, I'd keep the MGF to strictly post workout or at night somewhere in the 200 - 400 mcg range. Are you using just regular MGF or PEG MGF?
Perhaps size as some determination on the amount able to be used effectively. Like some people are able to use 20mcg and get results, and some are able to use 100mcg and get results.40mcg.. anything over is pointless IMO. 40mcg works amazing, I saw no difference with 40, and 100 which was the max I've went in my lifetime.
Care to share those with the class?:veryhappy:The only thing I have against PreWO pinning are the systemic capabilities IGF possesses.
The idea is that PWO your IGF receptors are upregulated in the muscles you trained. Preworkout you are more likely to get a systemic effect rather than a local effect due to the igf receptors in the site pinned not being upregulated yet, couple that with the fact that IGF-1 will have a higher affinity toward the area with the highest concentration of IGF receptors if the receptors in the injection site are not upregulated at the time of injection, and you could be getting yourself less than optimal site IGF-1 uptake/binding.Care to share those with the class?:veryhappy:
Anyone given an IM in the trap? it seems like there would a ton of nervesBear in mind though that most of the IGF we pin goes systemic immediatley, regardless of the protocol we use. The idea is to try to keep at least a little bit in a localized area that we trained or plan to train. PWO, yes, there will be muscle damage, and IGF receptors will be "calling" that IGF, but the IGF molecule is so small that its sucked away at a rapid rate. The problem with PWO pinning is that the area you trained is now engorged with blood, all the tiny capillaries as well, which will suck that IGF sytemic at a more rapid rate. Perhaps an hour or two PWO is the right answer here, IDK.
PWO, I assume you mean PostWO.Bear in mind though that most of the IGF we pin goes systemic immediatley, regardless of the protocol we use. The idea is to try to keep at least a little bit in a localized area that we trained or plan to train. PWO, yes, there will be muscle damage, and IGF receptors will be "calling" that IGF, but the IGF molecule is so small that its sucked away at a rapid rate. The problem with PWO pinning is that the area you trained is now engorged with blood, all the tiny capillaries as well, which will suck that IGF sytemic at a more rapid rate. Perhaps an hour or two PWO is the right answer here, IDK.
PWO, I assume you mean PostWO.
The little miniview study I posted above says the IGF receptors are higher after the MGF receptors PostWO thus making 1hr or so PostWO not a bad idea and blood flow shouldn't be a problem by that time. Wish I could find a study showing the duration that IGF and MGF receptors stay active PostWO. But I don't think I would want to rely on 1hr post...because at least 30mins to 1hr preWO you're still going to upregulate the receptors and even though it's systemic, it could still bind elsewhere than the intestines. (Correct me if I'm wrong there.)
And with preWO you do get the "insulin" like effects with transportation of the nutrients and oxygen to the muscles. We all know this is an essential part of muscular growth. But as far as hyperplasia (my main goal with IGF/MGF), I'm still trying to figure out that "perfect scheme".
Now, with the half-life of IGF and MGF, MGF will theoretically only inhibit IGF for 30minutes PostWO.
Yes, PWO means post workout. There are papers demonstrating that igf upregulation persists for 1-2 days after tissue insult, meaning, thats the window of opportunity, technically, for reaping full benefit of your dosed LR3. I would say anywhere from 3-6 hours PWO administration is sufficient.
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