IF with ketone/atkins diet while on hdrol/furaza

grngoloco

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Anything wrong with IF while with a high protein and little to no carbs while taking hdrol and furaza? I'm shooting for single digit body fat by june. I'm 6'1", 245lbs and roughly 15% body fat at this time.... planning on waking to a 8-1-1-1 bcaa plus two scoops of whey isolate... go workout, then not eat again intil 4:00pm and have my last meal at 11:00pm... workout as follows: lift four days, run two days and do HIIT one day a week..... plan on taking 100mg hdrol and 400mg furaza for no less than six weeks plus 300mg test cyp a week for three weeks and 500mg for the duration, if my labs say I can.
:)
 
JudoJosh

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Anything wrong with IF while with a high protein and little to no carbs while taking hdrol and furaza?
no

planning on waking to a 8-1-1-1 bcaa plus two scoops of whey isolate... go workout, then not eat again intil 4:00pm and have my last meal at 11:00pm...
why are you taking bcaas and whey together? You dont need both pre workout
 
grngoloco

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no

why are you taking bcaas and whey together? You dont need both pre workout
To flood my blood with protein,,, may do the bcaa's prior and during and the whey after,, open to suggestions .... never done IF before,,, I've read up on it,, but being the man I am, I always personalize(fück with) anything I do!! Hahaha
 
WARBIRDWS6

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I take the BCAA post workout.........then wait about 45 minutes and take 50 grams whey isolate. or you can always take the BCAA pre-workout instead then the whey PWO...but yeah, spread them out as much as possible while keeping them centered around workout time....
 
grngoloco

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I take the BCAA post workout.........then wait about 45 minutes and take 50 grams whey isolate. or you can always take the BCAA pre-workout instead then the whey PWO...but yeah, spread them out as much as possible while keeping them centered around workout time....
Cool deal,, just not a real fan of working out truly fasted,, but want to apply to the IF Lean Gains protocol as best I can
 
grngoloco

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Took my follow up labs today from that virus that attacked my liver,, if all is well, I'll be starting this regiment, ,, once I get down to single digit bf% I'll follow up this with the 4g of tren I'm sitting on. :)
I just need to do cardio and cardio with tren don't get along so well.
 
WARBIRDWS6

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well you could eat some time before your workout....then take the BCAA immediately PWO.....then take the whey say 2 hours later.....that would work as well. you don't need to workout fasted/on BCAA. its just not a good idea to take in BCAA and whole proteins at the same time, that is what everybody was getting at.
 
grngoloco

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well you could eat some time before your workout....then take the BCAA immediately PWO.....then take the whey say 2 hours later.....that would work as well. you don't need to workout fasted/on BCAA. its just not a good idea to take in BCAA and whole proteins at the same time, that is what everybody was getting at.
But I'll be doing IF
 
grngoloco

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But I'll be doing IF
Trying to have an absolute bare minimum of calories pre and post workout, then none at all until 4:00pm... eat roughly three meals plus snacks between 4:00pm and 11:00pm then nothing until my bcaa's and whey in the morning
 
WARBIRDWS6

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Trying to have an absolute bare minimum of calories pre and post workout, then none at all until 4:00pm... eat roughly three meals plus snacks between 4:00pm and 11:00pm then nothing until my bcaa's and whey in the morning
Not to be a dick and say I came up with the idea........but I've been doing this for ages.....no appetite early, so I just take in supps/aminos pre-WO....BCAA PWO, whey isolate 45 minutes later...then maybe a sandwich or something small during work (a 7 hour span or so between whey and when I get home from work), or just a "snack" at work.....then eat a larger meal when I get home (later evening).....then usually Leucine or protein powder before bed and leucine for piss break.....
 
grngoloco

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Not to be a dick and say I came up with the idea........but I've been doing this for ages.....no appetite early, so I just take in supps/aminos pre-WO....BCAA PWO, whey isolate 45 minutes later...then maybe a sandwich or something small during work (a 7 hour span or so between whey and when I get home from work), or just a "snack" at work.....then eat a larger meal when I get home (later evening).....then usually Leucine or protein powder before bed and leucine for piss break.....
The idea of eating right before bed and skipping breakfast, as a means to lose weight, goes against everything I have ever been taught,, but people swear by it,, I realize I'd lose weight on the ketone diet alone, but I'm thinking that combined with IF and the orals should make for some impressive results
 
WARBIRDWS6

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The idea of eating right before bed and skipping breakfast, as a means to lose weight, goes against everything I have ever been taught,, but people swear by it,, I realize I'd lose weight on the ketone diet alone, but I'm thinking that combined with IF and the orals should make for some impressive results
yeah I was always feeling guilty about eating late night, largest meal, and going long periods of 8 hours or more with just a sandwich or snack....etc etc....then I see lately all these guys doing it like its the next great thing LOL....makes me feel better that what I was doing was not such a bad idea afterall. but I was thinking of doing atkins style myself....just can't stand that no carb flat look all week. I prefer low carb or carb cycling as opposed to NO carbs all week. plus you get bloated on saturday on all those carbs, and sunday you don't even feel like carbs and you feel sick. but I can't even tell the difference if I'm on no carbs, low carbs, high carbs....I feel the same on any of those protocols. Just hate having no carbs in me and flattening out.....only thing really stopping me from doing it....plus I feel low carb is the same difference, since you have one cheat day and the rest of the days are low carb..similar to ultra low carb all week and high carb weekends
 
grngoloco

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yeah I was always feeling guilty about eating late night, largest meal, and going long periods of 8 hours or more with just a sandwich or snack....etc etc....then I see lately all these guys doing it like its the next great thing LOL....makes me feel better that what I was doing was not such a bad idea afterall. but I was thinking of doing atkins style myself....just can't stand that no carb flat look all week. I prefer low carb or carb cycling as opposed to NO carbs all week. plus you get bloated on saturday on all those carbs, and sunday you don't even feel like carbs and you feel sick. but I can't even tell the difference if I'm on no carbs, low carbs, high carbs....I feel the same on any of those protocols. Just hate having no carbs in me and flattening out.....only thing really stopping me from doing it....plus I feel low carb is the same difference, since you have one cheat day and the rest of the days are low carb..similar to ultra low carb all week and high carb weekends
To be true to the atkins diet, there are no cheat days,,, you buy ketone strips and slowly add carbs into your diet until you are no longer releasing ketones,, then back the carbs off just enough to begin releasing ketones again,,,
 
grngoloco

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Today is officially my first day on atkins plus IF... I'll start a new log as soon as I get my labs back and if they say I'm good to go
 
WARBIRDWS6

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To be true to the atkins diet, there are no cheat days,,, you buy ketone strips and slowly add carbs into your diet until you are no longer releasing ketones,, then back the carbs off just enough to begin releasing ketones again,,,
The atkins and/or anabolic diet books i have suggest going ass out on carbs Saturday.....then see how you feel Sunday as far as how much more carbs to eat....don't overdo it.
 
grngoloco

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The atkins and/or anabolic diet books i have suggest going ass out on carbs Saturday.....then see how you feel Sunday as far as how much more carbs to eat....don't overdo it.
I don't know what atkins book you have,, but every time you eat carbs you set yourself back three days or so,, you have about three days of glucose stores before you begin to release ketones
 
WARBIRDWS6

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That is the idea...you refill glycogen stores....then over the next few days you deplete them and start back on ketones .....you don't run on ketones 24/7 365.....some days are hybrid days some are ketosis days...this is the proper way to do it. No carbs at all 7 days a week is not wise
 
grngoloco

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That is the idea...you refill glycogen stores....then over the next few days you deplete them and start back on ketones .....you don't run on ketones 24/7 365.....some days are hybrid days some are ketosis days...this is the proper way to do it. No carbs at all 7 days a week is not wise
Well you do run on ketones 24/7 for the duration of the weight loss phase up until the maintenance stage
 
grngoloco

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These are principles from the various diets....not one specific diet. But I've never heard of NO carb up/refill day. That is nonsense.
Read the atkins book then criticize it :p
 
WARBIRDWS6

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I don't think you understand the concepts of these type diets....nor how to tweek them for a man or better yet a bodybuilder. And i know atkins has a recomp or carb up day(s)...but do as you like :D
 
JudoJosh

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Atkins = a standard ketogenic diet that slowly adds carbs back in. This is not the same as CKD or TKD diets.

CKD utilizes carb refeed days, AFAIK atkins does not.
 
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WARBIRDWS6

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Atkins is not an appropriate diet for a man/bodybuilder as i already stated anyways....it needs to be tweeked or just use a real mans diet of this sort such as the anabolic diet
 
JudoJosh

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Atkins states eat what you want on the weekend....eat carbs on the weekend...if that isn't a carb up im not sure what is
I think you may have atkins confused with CKD
 
WARBIRDWS6

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jesus christ, I just found time to look on atkins site....that is NOT how it was introduced however long ago it was when it first came out (15-20 years ago???)....no "Phases".....it was a simple 5 days keto 30 or less carbs a day.....1 day eat what you want within reason....and then sunday I forget what the protocol was but maybe half a day on carbs, the last part of the day w/o carbs? something like that....this "phase" stuff is new. regardless....anabolic diet plus tweeking = 10X better than atkins, new or old style....You youngsters need to understand, these things evolve over time and they like to make these diets palatable to the public in order to take your money. so this approach is much better than suffering w/o carbs all week waiting for the weekend..
 
JudoJosh

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That was always their sales pitch ....suffer without carbs for the week and have your carbs on the weekend. Unless they changed their ideas as of late
Nope. Atkins has always been SKD.. There was never refeed days or free days or any type of free carb allowance on a specific day. Atkins has what they call an induction phase for 2 weeks where you keep carbs below 30g and then there are 3 phases past that, each which allow for more food selection and a little more carb intake but generally you are always low carb thoughout the entire diet. This was the original atkins diet and unless it has been rewritten recently, there are no refeeda or weekend carb ups. That is CKD which is something different. Again I think you ate getting the two confused.. CKD does not equal Arkins
 
JudoJosh

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jesus christ, I just found time to look on atkins site....that is NOT how it was introduced however long ago it was when it first came out (15-20 years ago???)....no "Phases".....it was a simple 5 days keto 30 or less carbs a day.....1 day eat what you want within reason....and then sunday I forget what the protocol was but maybe half a day on carbs, the last part of the day w/o carbs? something like that....this "phase" stuff is new.
Nope. Again atkins NEVER had refeeds.

This is via the paperback 1972 book

During the first week on this diet, you cut your intake of carbohydrates down to what is biologically zero.
This creates a unique chemical situation in the body, the one favorable to the fastest possible burning of your body’s stored fat. Ketones are excreted, and hunger disappears.
You see, the first fuel your body burns for energy comes from the carbohydrates you eat and drink. If any carbohydrate is available, your body burns this rather than stored fat-and maintains its old metabolic pathways. But carbohydrates, as such, are not stored in the body beyond forty-eight hours.
So when no carbohydrate is taken in, your body must draw upon the major reserve source of fuel-the stored fat.
It is forced to take a different metabolic pathway. In this process your body converts from being a carbohydrate-burning engine.

This is The Diet Revolution: the new chemical situation in which ketones are being thrown off-and so are those unwanted pounds, all without hunger.
A gradual addition of carbohydrate to keep your body burning it’s fat as fuel. We must maintain this chemical situation if you’re to continue to lose without hunger. And if we add carbohydrate very gradually in tiny amounts-we can do just this… keep your body converted into a fat-burning engine.

So that is just what we do. The second week you might add a few grams of carbohydrate to your diet. Every week thereafter a little more carbohydrate (around five grams) may be returned to the diet.

The Rules of Original Atkins

The Diet Revolution Rules (Level One)
1. Don’t count calories
2. Eat as much of the allowed foods as you need to avoid hunger.
3. Don’t eat when you are not hungry.
4. Don’t feel you must finish everything on your plate just because it is there.
5. Drink as much water or calorie free beverages as thirst requires. Don’t restrict fluids… but it is not necessary to force them either.
6. Frequent small meals are preferable.
7. If weakness results from rapid weight loss, you may need salt.
8. Everyday take a high-strength multivitamin pill.
9. Read the labels on “low-calorie” drinks, syrups, desserts,. Only those with no carbohydrate content are allowed.

The First Life-Changing Week, eat nothing that is not on the list.

Meat: Steaks, Corned beef, Lamb chops, tongue, Hamburgers, Bacon, Any kind of meat in any quantity—except meat with fillers such as sausage, hot dogs, meatballs, most packaged “cold cuts”

Fowl: Duckling, Turkey, Chicken, Anything with wings, No stuffing

Desserts: Gelatin with artificial sweeteners (e.g., D-Zerta )

Condiments: Salt, pepper, mustard, horseradish, vinegar, vanilla, and other extracts; artificial sweeteners; any dry powdered spice that contains no sugar

Drinks: Water, Mineral water, Vichy, Club soda; Beef or Chicken broth, bouillon; Sugar free diet soda; coffee*, tea, decaffeinated coffee
-
--------*Special note on caffeine and Diet Cola. Because most heavy people have some hypoglycemia, coffee, which contains caffeine, should be limited to six servings a day (cups). If you know you have low blood sugar, better limit it to three.

Fish: All fish, including canned salmon, tuna; any kind of seafood, including oil-packed and smoked, except oysters, clams, muscles, scallops, and pickled fish

Eggs: Boiled, fried, scrambled, poached, omelet – any style and without limitations

Salads: Two small green salads a day (each less than one cupful, loosely packed) made only of leafy greens, celery, or cucumbers and radishes. Dressings with vinegar, oil, salt, dry spices, herbs, grated cheese, or anchovies. Or else a sour pickle in place of a salad. Plus… green olives.

Butter & Mayonnaise Fats: Butter, margarine (head New Diet Revolution & eat no margarine with trans fatty acids), oils, shortening (not such a great idea), lard & mayonnaise (fats have no carbohydrates).

Juice: Juice of one lemon or lime
Cheese: Four ounces a day of any hard aged cheese. No cream cheese or cheese spreads.

Heavy Cream: Four teaspoons a day. (Cream has less carbohydrate than milk – so don’t use milk)

Diet Revolution Salad Material: Celery, Chicory, Chinese Cabbage, Chives, Cucumber, Endive, Escarole, Fennel, lettuce, Olives (Green or Black), Onions, Pickles (Sour or Dill), Parsley, Peppers, Radishes, Scallions, watercress.

What Happens After The First Week’s Diet. Most diets are fixed formulas and are therefore short-termed and self-limiting. This diet is fixed only for a week. After that – because it must be a lifetime diet, it is, as variable as are individual tastes.

I’ve labeled the additions of carbohydrate that follow’ second level’, ‘third level’, ‘fourth level’, ‘fifth level’, but in fact the additions are interchangeable and flexible. You can make any of these additions any week that you choose. I am so committed to making this a livable lifetime diet that I am letting you select your own variations, within the rules set up by your biological rulebook.

Put back what you’ve missed the most: The idea is simply to gradually return to your diet first what you missed most. Custom-tailor the diet to suit your carbohydrate additions to suit your lifestyle. All that matters is that you add back to your diet a little carbohydrate at a time, and that you stop adding carbohydrate when you reach your CCL.

How to know when to put back a little carbohydrate: Ask yourself: Are the keto-stix still turning purple? Am I still un-hungry? Have I stopped eating at night? Do I have more energy? Am I still losing weight or inches nicely? Remember, your tape measure is a lot better friend than your scale, not only more accurate, but better able to report on the actual fat (not just temporary water) losses this diet achieves.

The Second Level: Cheesecake for dessert? At each level, remember you add approximately five to eight grams of carbohydrate daily for a week and analyze the results. Most people agree the best way to handle the second level is to add cottage cheese…

The Diet Revolution Vegetables (not for level one): All of the above plus; Asparagus, Avocado, Bamboo Shoots, Bean Sprouts, Beet Greens, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Cauliflower, Chard, Chinese Cabbage, eggplant, Kale, Kohlrabi, Mushrooms, Okra, Onions, Peppers, Pumpkins, Rhubarb, Sauerkraut, Snow Pea Pods, Spinach, String Beans, Summer Squash, Tomatoes, Turnips, Water Chestnuts, Wax Beans, Zucchini Squash
 
WARBIRDWS6

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I call total bullshyt.....never had phases before I just saw this. you can say it till your blue in the face, but when it first came out it was eat unlimited fat/protein foods during the week...no calorie restriction but no carbs/ultra low carbs....then weekend you can eat carbs for at least one day if not two days.
 
JudoJosh

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I call total bullshyt.....never had phases before I just saw this. you can say it till your blue in the face, but when it first came out it was eat unlimited fat/protein foods during the week...no calorie restriction but no carbs/ultra low carbs....then weekend you can eat carbs for at least one day if not two days.

The above quote is based off the 1972 atkins book. Thats 20 years ago!


Learn some humility.. it goes a long way in life
 
WARBIRDWS6

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The above quote is based off the 1972 atkins book. Thats 20 years ago!


Learn some humility.. it goes a long way in life
humility? WTF does that have anything to do with what I recollect from ACTUALLY BEING A LIVING ADULT during the whole atkins craze? were you "there"??? didn't think so....you just like to try and prove people wrong with nitpicking and nonsense. like usual.....we've even been over this exact subject before now that I think about it.....
 
WARBIRDWS6

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Also, I could give two shyt's about atkins diet, as I said its for "dieters" and women....regardless of how its setup....anabolic diet or carb cycling are the best bet for anybody who is interested in "bodybuilding" and is looking at keto or low carb style diets. Now that I look at the newest Atkins version...oh wait, its the same as the '71 version right?....ok the '71 version....its extremely retarded and set up for women and/or people looking for a fad diet complete with pre-packaged foods. I eat the atkins peanut butter cups, but that will be the extent of it for me.
 
san731

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Bro its ok to not be knowledgable about something. Regardless of who was around at the time, it's hard to argue with a quoted page out of the book written 40 years ago...

And you can't possibly say any one diet is supreme especially as a rationale to your ignorance of Adkins. Everyone is different and has different goals and thankfully there are a whole host of great diets that ALL have their place depending on ones body type and goals.

Thanks for the insight josh.
 
WARBIRDWS6

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Bro its ok to not be knowledgable about something. Regardless of who was around at the time, it's hard to argue with a quoted page out of the book written 40 years ago...

And you can't possibly say any one diet is supreme especially as a rationale to your ignorance of Adkins. Everyone is different and has different goals and thankfully there are a whole host of great diets that ALL have their place depending on ones body type and goals.

Thanks for the insight josh.
Who asked you?
 
WARBIRDWS6

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I'll neg rep you when i get home for that smartass shyt too...im on my phone. And fyi.....i never said i was an atkins expert....never even used it.....just saying what i recollect. GFY
 
san731

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Hahaha when you openly post in a public forum showing your ignorance about something and then handle it like a ten year old when presented with FACTS I guess you kinda leave the door wide open.

But I won't waste your time with anymore "smart ass shyt" (*cough* constructive criticism *cough*). Send out all the negs you want big man :)
 
WARBIRDWS6

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Hahaha when you openly post in a public forum showing your ignorance about something and then handle it like a ten year old when presented with FACTS I guess you kinda leave the door wide open.

But I won't waste your time with anymore "smart ass shyt" (*cough* constructive criticism *cough*). Send out all the negs you want big man :)
If i had a nickel for every time i had to correct your dumb ass on this site....id at least have enough for a soda can...."cough cough"....recall the "don't take your daily baby aspirin for cardiovascular health it will harm your liver" stupidity you posted ??? Should i go look up the other dumb stuff???BWAHAHAHA
 
grngoloco

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Like I said before,, atkins is zero carbs until you reach ketosis, approximately three days, then you slowly add in small amounts of carbs until you no longer are releasing ketones,,, you buy ketone strips from the pharmacy,,, you then back off the carbs until you again release ketones,, that's how you determine how many carbs you can have and still lose weight,,, no ketones=no weight loss .... once you reach your desired weight, you add in just enough carbs to exit ketosis, no more, and that's your maintenance diet
 
WARBIRDWS6

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Like I said before,, atkins is zero carbs until you reach ketosis, approximately three days, then you slowly add in small amounts of carbs until you no longer are releasing ketones,,, you buy ketone strips from the pharmacy,,, you then back off the carbs until you again release ketones,, that's how you determine how many carbs you can have and still lose weight,,, no ketones=no weight loss .... once you reach your desired weight, you add in just enough carbs to exit ketosis, no more, and that's your maintenance diet
I honestly think its a bad diet....the others i mentioned are way better....but despite having forgotten more than sanny knows...he said i can't give my opinion
 
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If i had a nickel for every time i had to correct your dumb ass on this site....id at least have enough for a soda can...."cough cough"....recall the "don't take your daily baby aspirin for cardiovascular health it will harm your liver" stupidity you posted ??? Should i go look up the other dumb stuff???BWAHAHAHA
Hahahahaha please do. I'd love to see all the helpful posts I've made. You're so knowledgable. I can't believe I thought aspirin had hepatoxic metabolites that would prove detrimental in someone taking tren and superdrol and halodrol.

Silly me.
 
grngoloco

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I honestly think its a bad diet....the others i mentioned are way better....but despite having forgotten more than sanny knows...he said i can't give my opinion
I lost my first 5o pounds on it,, to each their own,, it suits me really well.. it preserves muscle and burns fat,, it's not perfect, but I like it
 
grngoloco

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That's cool then if it works for you....just that the other diets are better and less gimmicky to me with the same results
I've done labs with atkins,, the results defied reason,, with a high protein, high fat diet, my cholesterol, triglyceride's and overall lypid and liver profile imoroved beyond reason
 
san731

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I've done labs with atkins,, the results defied reason,, with a high protein, high fat diet, my cholesterol, triglyceride's and overall lypid and liver profile imoroved beyond reason
That's really interesting.

Did you get liver values done as well?

I figured at the least those would be elevated due to the ketosis.
 

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