I feel this needs to be posted - Me, My Brain, and ALCAR

[PuZo]

Are you supposed to take additional choline with the Na-R-ALA/ALCAR/Agmatine "Stack"?

 

[kbayne]

Are you supposed to take additional choline with the Na-R-ALA/ALCAR/Agmatine "Stack"?

No it is not necessary. It would be a nice addition though.

 

[bakerwil]

For CM, you mean 10 grams right? That will be a nice homemade preworkout with all of that mixed together.

Right 10 grams!

 

[kbayne]

Right 10 grams!

Okay, good to know. Have you tried dosing CM lower? 6-9 grams is the clinical dose. 10 grams won't hurt any but you could get a longer run out of your CM.

 

[domore]

Just trying to give out great advice as I have seen you do numerous times

We're just spreading the good stuff.

Are you supposed to take additional choline with the Na-R-ALA/ALCAR/Agmatine "Stack"?

No it is not necessary. It would be a nice addition though.

Agreed. I always have Na-R-Ala, ALCAR, and citicoline on hand, so, by default, they get stacked together.

 

[kbayne]

Agreed. I always have Na-R-Ala, ALCAR, and citicoline on hand, so, by default, they get stacked together.

It's a beautiful combo

 

[bakerwil]

Okay, good to know. Have you tried dosing CM lower? 6-9 grams is the clinical dose. 10 grams won't hurt any but you could get a longer run out of your CM.

I started at 6g, but noticed a substantial difference at 9g. I only use it a 3-5 times a week...so its not too bad on the budget!
For choline, is Citrate the best bang for the buck? I see Bitartrate at the bulk stores, but not Citrate...what do you recommend?
Thanks again for your help! I have learned allot reading your comments all over the place.....btw.

 

[domore]

I started at 6g, but noticed a substantial difference at 9g. I only use it a 3-5 times a week...so its not too bad on the budget!
For choline, is Citrate the best bang for the buck? I see Bitartrate at the bulk stores, but not Citrate...what do you recommend?
Thanks again for your help! I have learned allot reading your comments all over the place.....btw.

If you want the "best bang for your buck," I would pick up some SNS choline citrate. If you have some extra money to spend, you could purchase CDP-Choline (many poster's personal favorite). CDP-Choline raises choline, uridine, and cytidine triphosphate levels. AND, the cytidine moiety also stimulates phosphatidylcholine synthesis, too.

 

[Hyperfluxe]

Alright I just finished reading through this entire thread, tons of great info! I received my tub of PrimaForce ALCAR (powder) a couple of days ago and started with 2g (at 1g taken twice), but I think I might cut the dose by half because it did make me feel kind of lethargic/mildly anxious. It kind of made me feel foggy if that makes sense, being "out of it". Of course, this may be because I started taking 2g right off the bat.

My question is: what signs would dictate whether you need a choline source if you're taking ALCAR? Do my above feelings mean that I should invest in a choline source like Alpha GPC? I also take Orange Triad (good antioxidant stuff in there), Hemavol (agmatine), Craze, and fish oil if that helps. Thanks!

 

[bioman]

Sounds like you might need a little choline. You'll have to feel out how much, if any, is needed.

 

[kbayne]

Adding Choline would be a nice addition. You would have to try it out first to know how you react to the combo. But if it were me, I'd get some CDP-Choline and try it out.

 

[Hyperfluxe]

Thank you for the replies! I will take 1g for the next few days and see if the side effects persist, and if I need to get choline I will. Anyone know where a good place to buy in Canada? There's nothing on bb.com and shipping on Nutraplanet is quite expensive.

 

[bakerwil]

Coop, from your quote 'If you are using Na-R-Ala as a general antioxidant to run concurrently with ALCAR, a lower dose can suffice (~150mg).'
From this, do you mean take Na-R-Ala 2-3 times a day at 150mg (and not with ALCAR) or would once suffice.
Either way, I would prefer (out of convenience) to take Na-R-Ala once a day - would it work well enough like this?
And, I am thinking of putting Na-R-ala with my one of my BCAA, Agmatine, Citrulline, Cissus, Alcar, Choline drinks (less the ALCAR when Na-R-Ala is used). Does this sound effective and convenient?

Thanks always for your opinion...

 

[bdcc]

For those using Enhanced, ALCAR should go along very nicely with it.

 

[KimChee]

I love ALCAR its going to be a staple supplement for me, taking 1.5g twice daily with 1.5g choline 2x daily, I'm definately sharper, short term memory is much higher, and my thinking feels more liquid. I find it preferable to piracetam I was taking. I just recently started getting back into supplements, bulk powders have really changed the game as far as being able to afford a lot of things at once..

 

[Hyperfluxe]

I thought I would need choline because I had headaches during the first week, but turns out I just had a cold :laugh:
Headaches have completely disappeared and I am dosing 2g/day, 1g in the morning 1g at night. So far (2.5 weeks) I have noticed increased sharpness (feels like I can analyze things with a clear mind, sort of like Samus in the Metroid Prime series when she's using the visor scanning thing), and I've noticed some memorization enhancement but I'm not so sure yet. I literally learned the last two and a half weeks of my organic chem class in 3 hours and got 93% on my quiz - I wonder if ALCAR had anything to do with that or if it's simply a placebo.

I'm definitely going to keep using it and it should only get better with time if I'm correct.

 

[feather319]

I've been using ALCAR for years and have never cycled it. This is the first thread I've heard about cycling. I workout in the morning and have been taking 1500 mg of ALCAR. I don't take it with ALA often because I tend to battle hypoglycemic symptoms. It took me months to figure this out. I stopped the ALA and the symptoms went away.

Great info on this thread. I'm finally through all 19 pages.

1. What are the dangers of not cycling ALCAR. I've never taken a break in over 5 years. I still feel awake and energized with my regular 1500 mg dosage. I recently added choline citrate and tyrosine to the morning mix so that could that be covering a tolerance?
2. What are the downsides of taking ALCAR without ALA?
3. Is there a substitute I could use if I cycle off? I've read DMAE on other boards. If do use DMAE, I'd cut the choline citrate correct?

 

[Hyperfluxe]

Anyone know if females need to dose this any differently from males? A friend is interested.

 

[feather319]

I'm a female and dose at 1500mg in the morning. I don't seem to need more that that for the whole day. I've never read anything online about females dosing differently than males.

 

[ahh123]

Great info in this thread.

After reading all 19 pages in summary stack to use daily would be the following:

dosing once in the morning and once mid day OR 30min before workout as a single dose

- 150mg Na-R-Ala around 30min before ALCAR,
- 1-2g ALCAR but those with potential balding go with lower dose cause it can cause hair loss or shedding,
- choline source either 2g of choline citrate or 500mg of CDP Choline (preferred choice) or Alpha GPC

Did I get the basic info in this thread or correct me if not?

 

[Hyperfluxe]

Anyone getting vivid nightmares regularly that wake you up in the middle of the night? This only happened when I upped the dose from 1.5g daily to 2g.

 

[NomZ]

Anyone getting vivid nightmares regularly that wake you up in the middle of the night? This only happened when I upped the dose from 1.5g daily to 2g.

No.

 

[kbayne]

Great info in this thread.

After reading all 19 pages in summary stack to use daily would be the following:

dosing once in the morning and once mid day OR 30min before workout as a single dose

- 150mg Na-R-Ala around 30min before ALCAR,
- 1-2g ALCAR but those with potential balding go with lower dose cause it can cause hair loss or shedding,
- choline source either 2g of choline citrate or 500mg of CDP Choline (preferred choice) or Alpha GPC

Did I get the basic info in this thread or correct me if not?

If the Na-R-Ala or ALCAR is capped, you can dose together.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Great info in this thread.

After reading all 19 pages in summary stack to use daily would be the following:

dosing once in the morning and once mid day OR 30min before workout as a single dose

- 150mg Na-R-Ala around 30min before ALCAR,
- 1-2g ALCAR but those with potential balding go with lower dose cause it can cause hair loss or shedding,
- choline source either 2g of choline citrate or 500mg of CDP Choline (preferred choice) or Alpha GPC

Did I get the basic info in this thread or correct me if not?

Very nice summary, and yep, as kbayne said, you're fine dosing the Na-RLA and ALCAR together as long as you don't combine two bulk powders in water or something

 

[kisaj]

I just added in phenyl piracetam and I am completely blown away by this stuff. As I've posting many times in the past, Aniracetam is the most amazing noot available, IMO, and really changed my life. Phenyl piracetam could be a very close second in a completely different way. The heightened state of awareness and non stimulating energy is unlike anything I have ever experienced. I find my self doing things I would normally put off and not even really realizing I am completing it, until I stop and realize I have just had productivity in the last hour that would usually take 2-3. One thing that caught me slightly off guard was the increased visual sense. About an hour after taking it, it almost feels like a very mild hallucinogen in that things are so crisp and outlined that it almost appears animated. I was walking the dog just smiling because everything was so vivid and bright. Definitely a very interesting side.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I just added in phenyl piracetam and I am completely blown away by this stuff. As I've posting many times in the past, Aniracetam is the most amazing noot available, IMO, and really changed my life. Phenyl piracetam could be a very close second in a completely different way. The heightened state of awareness and non stimulating energy is unlike anything I have ever experienced. I find my self doing things I would normally put off and not even really realizing I am completing it, until I stop and realize I have just had productivity in the last hour that would usually take 2-3. One thing that caught me slightly off guard was the increased visual sense. About an hour after taking it, it almost feels like a very mild hallucinogen in that things are so crisp and outlined that it almost appears animated. I was walking the dog just smiling because everything was so vivid and bright. Definitely a very interesting side.

What was your dose?

 

[kisaj]

I use the little scooper that was included and take it sublingual in an 80-100mg dose approximately 5-6 hours apart. I found that it starts coming on in about 20-25 min and there is an initial spike in energy for about an hour or two and then it slightly subsides and rides for 3-4 more hours before tapering off.

I haven't had a need to go over this amount and based on what I researched, it can cause anxiety and a slight manic feeling in high (200mg+) doses.

 

[ahh123]

I just added in phenyl piracetam and I am completely blown away by this stuff. As I've posting many times in the past, Aniracetam is the most amazing noot available, IMO, and really changed my life. Phenyl piracetam could be a very close second in a completely different way. The heightened state of awareness and non stimulating energy is unlike anything I have ever experienced. I find my self doing things I would normally put off and not even really realizing I am completing it, until I stop and realize I have just had productivity in the last hour that would usually take 2-3. One thing that caught me slightly off guard was the increased visual sense. About an hour after taking it, it almost feels like a very mild hallucinogen in that things are so crisp and outlined that it almost appears animated. I was walking the dog just smiling because everything was so vivid and bright. Definitely a very interesting side.

I'm very interested in aniracetam despite many reporting feeling less than piracetam but those that feel it can't praise it's anxiolitic effect.

What brand of aniracetam are you using, what dose, how do you cycle it...throw in any other beneficial info?

 

[kisaj]

There is no comparison between piracetam and aniracetam. They act completely different and impossible to compare because of the effects they have. Piracetam is sedating and for those that enjoy the effects, is good for studying and focus. For me, it just makes me want to go to sleep for hours. Aniracetam is different in that it is ideal for social settings because it allows thoughts to flow and it makes the ability to speak in public (speeches and conferences are ideal) very easy. It actually encourages you to want to be in front of people and talk. I don't think that Aniracetam increases the ability to study or learn, but rather it takes what you already know and puts it in order, organizes, and puts words at the tip of your tongue.

I don't know if we are supposed to mention brands here, so I may not. 750mg twice a day with a choline source is ideal. Also, you want to eat a fat with it. Drink a glass of milk or something to help the effects. Keep in mind that they are currently trying to control Aniracetam and it is getting harder to find, so I'd say to stock up. My doc seems to believe that they will be making it only available by prescription in the future, so we'll see.

 

[Greenhulk]

- 1-2g ALCAR but those with potential balding go with lower dose cause it can cause hair loss or shedding,

Can you tell me any reference for the hair loss part? As far as I know ALCAR has no relation to DHT levels, and the genetically inherited increased sensitivity of hair follices to DHT is one of the main causes of androgenetic alopecia. So, I wonder how it should promote hair loss in genetically prone men.

 

[SSD77]

Can you tell me any reference for the hair loss part? As far as I know ALCAR has no relation to DHT levels, and the genetically inherited increased sensitivity of hair follices to DHT is one of the main causes of androgenetic alopecia. So, I wonder how it should promote hair loss in genetically prone men.

I was taking 1.5 and was afraid of the hairloss thing because I was already balding. It seemed while I was on it that I was shedding more , unfortunatly even being off alcar for over a month I still shed like crazy , I'm just destined to be bald no matter what supps i take :/

 

[liftandeat]

Which brand of ALCAR should I buy?

 

[blacklac]

Which brand of ALCAR should I buy?

I personally keep Primaforce bulk powder and use that as much as I can. If powder isn't an option, I use SNS caps. It's nice to have both. The bulk powder was super cheap. Caps can be found quite cheap too though...

ALCAR isn't the most offending powder by any means, but I wouldn't use the bulk powder in any non flavored beverage, hence why I keep both options around. It is masked well in a preworkout, but I dont think I'd mix it in my morning coffee.

 

[Greenhulk]

I personally keep Primaforce bulk powder and use that as much as I can. If powder isn't an option, I use SNS caps. It's nice to have both. The bulk powder was super cheap. Caps can be found quite cheap too though...

ALCAR isn't the most offending powder by any means, but I wouldn't use the bulk powder in any non flavored beverage, hence why I keep both options around. It is masked well in a preworkout, but I dont think I'd mix it in my morning coffee.

There really is much worse stuff than ALCAR tastewise - like bulk icariin powder, giant knot weed extract or methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) for example. ALCAR dissolved in water just tastes very sour and a bit like vinegar, which is not surprising due to its N-acetyl group. I usually mix it with sparkling mineral water and some fruit juice, then I don't notice much of it anymore.

 

[babyfrog]

Hey guys, I've read the entire thread but with the vast amount of information here, it's difficult to keep track. Anyhow, I have a couple of questions that I believe haven't been answered (I may just be awful at reading from a computer lol). But I'll post my dosage plan first:

A - Non-workout days
Upon waking up -> 1g ALCAR + 500 mg citicholine/2g choline citrate in the same glass of water, followed by breakfast.
Evening -> 1g ALCAR followed by dinner, where I take 200-300 mg Na-R-ALA.

B - Workout days
Pre-workout-> 2g alcar and 500 mg citicholine/2g choline citrate together with citrulline malate and tyrosine powder in the same shaker (also, the ocassional caffeine pill when I need it). The Na-R-ALA would still be at dinner.

Basically my questions are:
1. Is there any reason for dosing the ALA before the ALCAR? Seeing I can be prone to hypoglycemic symptoms like mental fatigue when not having eaten for a while, I would prefer to have it with my high carb meals, aka either dinner or night meal. Besides, it seems inconvenient to take the ALA upon waking, then waiting 30 min to have the ALCAR, and then waiting another 30 min to have breakfast - if you want the acute effects that is.
2. ALCAR shouldn't polarize with citicholine/choline citrate, or am I mistaken? Nor with cit mal or tyrosine?
3. Is it okay to have my entire choline intake in one daily dose, or do I have to split it up together with the ALCAR on non-workout days? Ie. 1g ALCAR + 250 mg citicholine in the morning, and 1g + 250 mg in the evening necessary?

On an unrelated sidenote, I'm also contemplating adding some aniracetam, probably either at 750 mg - 1g with breakfast, or at 500ish mg twice a day.

Fantastic thread with lots of great information, not only from cooper but also from all you other guys. Keep it up, mucho apreciado. Hope one of you can answer my questions.

 

[ahh123]

Hey guys, I've read the entire thread but with the vast amount of information here, it's difficult to keep track. Anyhow, I have a couple of questions that I believe haven't been answered (I may just be awful at reading from a computer lol). But I'll post my dosage plan first:

A - Non-workout days
Upon waking up -> 1g ALCAR + 500 mg citicholine/2g choline citrate in the same glass of water, followed by breakfast.
Evening -> 1g ALCAR followed by dinner, where I take 200-300 mg Na-R-ALA.

B - Workout days
Pre-workout-> 2g alcar and 500 mg citicholine/2g choline citrate together with citrulline malate and tyrosine powder in the same shaker (also, the ocassional caffeine pill when I need it). The Na-R-ALA would still be at dinner.

Basically my questions are:
1. Is there any reason for dosing the ALA before the ALCAR? Seeing I can be prone to hypoglycemic symptoms like mental fatigue when not having eaten for a while, I would prefer to have it with my high carb meals, aka either dinner or night meal. Besides, it seems inconvenient to take the ALA upon waking, then waiting 30 min to have the ALCAR, and then waiting another 30 min to have breakfast - if you want the acute effects that is.
2. ALCAR shouldn't polarize with citicholine/choline citrate, or am I mistaken? Nor with cit mal or tyrosine?
3. Is it okay to have my entire choline intake in one daily dose, or do I have to split it up together with the ALCAR on non-workout days? Ie. 1g ALCAR + 250 mg citicholine in the morning, and 1g + 250 mg in the evening necessary?

On an unrelated sidenote, I'm also contemplating adding some aniracetam, probably either at 750 mg - 1g with breakfast, or at 500ish mg twice a day.

Fantastic thread with lots of great information, not only from cooper but also from all you other guys. Keep it up, mucho apreciado. Hope one of you can answer my questions.

Waiting for answers to your questions as well.

Today got Na-R-ALA, ALCAR and CDP Choline and just took for my 1st time ever 100 mg cap of R-ALA and 25min later 500mg cap of ALCAR both on empty stomach and waiting to start my lunch to take 250mg cap of CDP Choline.

Also have mutlivitamins and fish oil (1 cap containing 300mg DHA, 130mg EPA & 25mg Kaneka sourced Ubiquinol) so now thinking how to take all of these supplements for best synergy.

Any advice into my stack regarding when to take what and at what dose (empty stomach or with food), I'd highly appreciate.

 

[alwaysfirst]

I got some ALCAR thanks to this tread and all I have to say is: ALCAR, where have you been my whole life!

Hope the effect will continue after time

 

[Quadzilla99]

Since you bumped this thread..anyone have any experience with Smart Powders citicholine?

I know Smart Powders is McCandless company but I've seen mixed reviews on some of their stuff

 

[mr.cooper69]

Since you bumped this thread..anyone have any experience with Smart Powders citicholine?I know Smart Powders is McCandless company but I've seen mixed reviews on some of their stuff

Email mike and ask him if the CDP-choline is Cognizin brand.

 

[Quadzilla99]

Email mike and ask him if the CDP-choline is Cognizin brand.

Ok..

 

[mr.cooper69]

Ok..

Srs, I don't know if it is or not. Never tried his citicoline

 

[Quadzilla99]

Srs, I don't know if it is or not. Never tried his citicoline

Im tracking his email down now. What brand do you use?

 

[Quadzilla99]

Okay, I emailed that dude and I assume any legit brand that says cognizin sourced is gtg. So we'll see if he responds. If not ill just go with Jarrow or something

 

[Quadzilla99]

Derp

Lol, now that I look that Jarrow is cheaper anyway even though its capped so I just ordered that. If mccandless responds ill reply here in case the prices change around or something. These nootropics can't get here fast enough tbh

 

[braxbrah]

Been taking 3g a morning on am empty stomach with rasberry ketones and alphamine. I guess I should probably split to 1.5 morning and 1.5 afternoon dosing?

 

[razzldazzlm]

One thing that caught me slightly off guard was the increased visual sense. About an hour after taking it, it almost feels like a very mild hallucinogen in that things are so crisp and outlined that it almost appears animated. I was walking the dog just smiling because everything was so vivid and bright. Definitely a very interesting side.

Sorry if this is an old thread but
I get this as well- like everything is in enhanced 3D. You feel like its put your brain into enhanced operation mode in more ways than one.
Can cause more dream activity and poor sleep if taken too late in the day.

 

[kisaj]

Funny you post this up because I just got a new shipment and the texture and consistency is different. In the past, it has been a little grainy and very light tan. This batch is very fluffy and very white, and very strong. I took a single 100mg scoop at about 2pm and was buzzing until about 11pm last night. Some of the craziest dreams ever, with lots of flying in it. I've been taking this for the last year or so and never had a batch like this.

 

[koi1214]

Funny you post this up because I just got a new shipment and the texture and consistency is different. In the past, it has been a little grainy and very light tan. This batch is very fluffy and very white, and very strong. I took a single 100mg scoop at about 2pm and was buzzing until about 11pm last night. Some of the craziest dreams ever, with lots of flying in it. I've been taking this for the last year or so and never had a batch like this.

Are you talking about phenylpiracetam?

 

[kisaj]

Yes sir.

 

[ctfullback08]

Sorry to continue to dig up an old post, but like many of you - stumbling across this thread motivated me to re-try ALCAR, this time with the dosing protocol widely endorsed throughout the thread:

Dosing: once in the morning and once mid day OR 30min before workout as a single dose
- 150mg Na-R-Ala around 30min before ALCAR (if both capped can dose together)
- 1-2g ALCAR
- Choline source either 2g of choline citrate or 500mg of CDP Choline (preferred choice) or Alpha GPC

Some of the discussions around acetams also got me curious: what are your favored acetams? and could I stack something like a Aniracetam with the stack above given that choline supplementation is widely advocated alongside the Aniracetam?