Free test or total test?

AndShane

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I always have high total test but low free test with high shbg. What is normally more important to look at? I feel like I gain weight easier now and a little more tired during the day. Just looking for answers on what people seem to think is most important between total or free?
 
Renew1

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I always have high total test but low free test with high shbg. What is normally more important to look at? I feel like I gain weight easier now and a little more tired during the day. Just looking for answers on what people seem to think is most important between total or free?
As I said in your other post... You need to get your SHBG down. You need to free up some of that Test, so it can do it's work.
 
MarkoK87

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Free test is much more important than total test, you need meds to lower SHBG and when you do that free test will increase.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Total test is irrelevant compared to free test; if your shbg is too high, your body wont be able to fully utilize most of the testosterone it’s producing. Free test is testosterone not bound to shbg. Like renew1 said, lower your shbg and you should feel better.
 
MarkoK87

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Methods to lower SHBG? Naturals maybe?
There is reason why many include DHT steroid with test, especially masteron or winstrol. You will have more free test on 300mg dose per week with masteron than on 600mg only test dose. I think you can find some supplements that can decrease SHBG, but that would be probably very little. IMO best option is to include DHT stetoid with test.
 
Jinsun

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There is reason why many include DHT steroid with test, especially masteron or winstrol. You will have more free test on 300mg dose per week with masteron than on 600mg only test dose. I think you can find some supplements that can decrease SHBG, but that would be probably very little. IMO best option is to include DHT stetoid with test.
While it is true that viron, winny, var, etc. lower shbg it is questionable if it makes sense in adding them to the cycle just bc of this fact alone. This is mostly bc Ai's, that you most probably are using on cycle, also lower shbg substantially and it's questionable if it's healthy to lower it even further. Shbg has it's functions, so don't look at it as only a negative. It does depend though on actual blood values, how much test you have, how much shbg before and after Ai, etc. Additional lowering might be warranted or it might not be idk ...
 
MarkoK87

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I agree with all you post, but I see over and over guys who run enormous amounts of test alone, so IMO its much better to add some dht with lower dose of test, I would always rather choose test on 350mg with masteron than 800mg of test alone :)
 
Renew1

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As far as the OP goes, he DEFINITELY needs to lower his SHBH.

Good Test levels + LOW Free Tes +HIGH SHBG = Lower that SHBG.
 
Godstrength

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While it is true that viron, winny, var, etc. lower shbg it is questionable if it makes sense in adding them to the cycle just bc of this fact alone. This is mostly bc Ai's, that you most probably are using on cycle, also lower shbg substantially and it's questionable if it's healthy to lower it even further. Shbg has it's functions, so don't look at it as only a negative. It does depend though on actual blood values, how much test you have, how much shbg before and after Ai, etc. Additional lowering might be warranted or it might not be idk ...
An extremely low dose of these compounds is all thats needed to effectively lower Shbg. Winstrol @10mg/day, var @20mg/day, masteron @150-200mg/week even proviron at 25mg/day. All are very effective at lowering shbg and side effects will be minimal or non existent. You dont have to run cycle doses and actually the higher you run them doesn't make them more effectove at lowering Shbg. Low dose dht is perfect and a necessity in my opinion for anyone looking to get the most bang from testosterone. Not to mention high Shbg is not healthy.
 

AndShane

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I was told doing test from a clinic that doing test will lower shbg? I can’t be on var forveeer! Test with hcg is the route I am going. Seems typical I would suppose?
 

kisaj

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Look at adding in DIM, as the metabolism of estrogen is a factor in lowering SHBG. I had high normal levels and started seeing an Internist to work on gut health and was also following IF. IF alone dropped me from high, into high normal and then increasing protein and fat intake into my IF lowered it further. Doc mentioned adding in DIM as well and now I have consistent low normal SHBG and high free test.

Also, I am on TRT for reference.
 
Godstrength

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Something that actually works as well otc is yohimbine

Looking for the study can't seem to find it at the moment
 
Godstrength

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I was told doing test from a clinic that doing test will lower shbg? I can’t be on var forveeer! Test with hcg is the route I am going. Seems typical I would suppose?
No prob man didn't realize it was trt.
 

AndShane

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Not on trt. I am getting on it because of the low free t. He stated this will help with shbg as well over the long run
 
Renew1

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Not on trt. I am getting on it because of the low free t. He stated this will help with shbg as well over the long run
Ugh.
Get on TRT if you really want to be on TRT, but I would not start TRT because your SHBG is high.
 

AndShane

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No it’s bc my free t is 2 points below the lowest threshold
 
Renew1

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No it’s bc my free t is 2 points below the lowest threshold
Absolutely.
And the answer to that is to correct SHBG. Not shove more Test into your body.

Are you aware that a quick way to increase SHBG is to introduce more Test into the body?
 
RickyBlobby

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Doesn't proviron lower shbg without being liver toxic? The question is does it suppress your total T and will you end up worse than when you started?? I remember taking proviron and var with my TRT and that was a feel good (and I looked great) cycle for sure.
 

AndShane

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These are doctors talking. I see what your saying about this. I guess I need to get my free test up. You keep saying decrease shbg but you get a ton of run around answers
 
Renew1

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These are doctors talking. I see what your saying about this. I guess I need to get my free test up. You keep saying decrease shbg but you get a ton of run around answers
Like I said before, If you want to be on the lifelong commitment of TRT, which you said you don't..... I'd spend more than a few days on this site trying to figure this out.
I'm more than happy to try and help you, if you like. A good first step (IMO) is to start another thread asking how to lower your SHBG. People with medical and chemistry backgrounds could be tagged to help supply good solid answers.

I'm giving you the exact same advice that I would hope people would give me if I were in your situation.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Going on trt with your total test levels already being over 700ng/dl would be dumb, as many have already told you. Simply lowering shbg would fix your problem, and you wouldn’t have to inject yourself for the rest of your life. Your “doctor” is a complete dumbass, and only wants to make money off you.
 
Mzakif

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An extremely low dose of these compounds is all thats needed to effectively lower Shbg. Winstrol @10mg/day, var @20mg/day, masteron @150-200mg/week even proviron at 25mg/day. All are very effective at lowering shbg and side effects will be minimal or non existent. You dont have to run cycle doses and actually the higher you run them doesn't make them more effectove at lowering Shbg. Low dose dht is perfect and a necessity in my opinion for anyone looking to get the most bang from testosterone. Not to mention high Shbg is not healthy.
Does that apply to msten + 4ad cycle ?

Or it will pointless ?
 

AndShane

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So what lowers shbg. I’ll try that before test but I have super Low free t and high shbg. I would love to free up shbg but not one person has given a good answer on this?
 
AnabolicGuru

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So what lowers shbg. I’ll try that before test but I have super Low free t and high shbg. I would love to free up shbg but not one person has given a good answer on this?
We’ve given you multiple options to lower it. Lowering estrogen would lower shbg; exemestane would be perfect for this. I’d get more bloodwork to see where estrogen, prolactin and thyroid is at to see if any of those are out of wack as well, considering that they would cause shbg issues. There’s also otc products to help control shbg.
 
AnabolicGuru

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Ok experts how do I lower shbg then ?
And nobody is claiming to be an expert, but your doctor is clearly far from an expert themself. I’d find a new doctor to offer advice as well; I’m assuming yours is just one of those hrt clinic docs or something.
 

AndShane

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Yes it is. However estrogen is great but estrone is high. Thyroid perfect!
 

AndShane

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E2 is normal. Thyroid is normal. Estrone is high shbg is high and free t is low. What would I need to try first before trt?
 
Godstrength

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Doesn't proviron lower shbg without being liver toxic? The question is does it suppress your total T and will you end up worse than when you started?? I remember taking proviron and var with my TRT and that was a feel good (and I looked great) cycle for sure.
Here's your answer right here in my opinion. If it is suppressive it's minimal. I doubt on a dose of 25 mg every other day you would see your test take much of a hit if any. Also this would work for sure. You would better utilize the testosterone that your body is already producing lowering shbg.
 

AndShane

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Isn’t proviron a steroid? Where do you find this? Have to be on this forever?
 
Jinsun

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Proviron does not suppress in low dosages at all. Lots of case studies proving that. You can take 50mg for months on end and have zero suppression. You will loose some hair though :) It's not liver toxic so it's safe to take for an extended period of time.

If your e2 is high and shbg is high then the answer is really simple: take an Ai. This will lower your e2 and at the same time lower your shbg and thus increase your free T. Aromasin would be your best bet. If e2 is not that high, maybe something like 35 max, then you can also take arimistane at 75 - 100mg ed. That will lower your e2 by 5 to 10 point and significantly lower your shbg. But otherwise I would recommend aromasin.

Where is your e2 at and why haven't you in two pages of discussion still shared your lab results?
 
RickyBlobby

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Are you prone to male pattern baldness? Because your 2 best options for lowering shbg are proably an aromatase inhibitor and proviron and both will increase hair loss IF YOU ARE PRONE.
 

AndShane

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Yeah prone to hair loss but small dose of arminidex will cause this? I posted my e2. It’s 21 which is perfect. Estrone is high however but not sure if that matters?
 
Renew1

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Like I said before, If you want to be on the lifelong commitment of TRT, which you said you don't..... I'd spend more than a few days on this site trying to figure this out.
I'm more than happy to try and help you, if you like. A good first step (IMO) is to start another thread asking how to lower your SHBG. People with medical and chemistry backgrounds could be tagged to help supply good solid answers.

I'm giving you the exact same advice that I would hope people would give me if I were in your situation.
This is the best advice I could give you. And you totally ignored it, so I don't see the purpose for me being in this thread any longer.
 
RickyBlobby

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Yeah prone to hair loss but small dose of arminidex will cause this? I posted my e2. It’s 21 which is perfect. Estrone is high however but not sure if that matters?
Not saying your hair loss will increase by 100%. But you will be accelerating it to some degree. Just something to be aware of
 

AndShane

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Ok. I looked up lowering shbg and another steroid is basically what is mentioned , at which I don’t want to be on that forever either. Test is much safer running hcg alongside with it I guess. My free t needs to increase period. Let’s say shbg was normal and free t was low. Would test be answer. I just don’t get a lot of ways to lower shbg. Estrogen e2 is normal range every blood test. Does estrone matter at all?
 
Jinsun

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Cant help ypu with estrone, but lowering shbg is not hard. You've gotten enough advice in this thread already about that. The problem now is that your e2 21. This is perfect, but much of the things that we recommended will lower it and that wont be okay.

Thus I recommend tongkat ali. This can lower shbg quite significantly and have no effect on e2.
 

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