First time user logging a Havoc cycle

[boo99]

i used kilo sports trenadrol

it's a whole different ball game from havoc.
sides seemed low. didn't experience much besides mood swings and night sweats. slept like a baby.

umm...i gained around the same with trenadrol. 6lbs. but strength gains were explosive. most people experience harsher side effects though so it's definitely not as mild as havoc.
but i kept on making strength gains for the whole 6 week cycle. that and it made my joints feel pretty good.

i also found out that a low dose of trenadrol worked just as good as a higher dose. each pill is 30mg.
60mg gave me the same gains that 150mg gave me.

cool man, thnx, seems to be more pluses to a trenadrol cycle vs. havoc so will consider that for Spring/Summer cycle depending how all goes with PCT.

ffmedic32--
how are you doing with your havoc man....since you started this post?

 

[ffmedic32]

cool man, thnx, seems to be more pluses to a trenadrol cycle vs. havoc so will consider that for Spring/Summer cycle depending how all goes with PCT.

ffmedic32--
how are you doing with your havoc man....since you started this post?

I have not actualy started the Havoc yet. Just started support supps and started the thread early. Hopefully that way I can see what kinda changes take place.

Plan to start Havoc on Monday the 12th,,that will give me 2 weeks of cycle support pre cycle. This thread has had me tossing around how I wanna run my dosage now too.

 

[ibanezman08]

So, you had better strength gains from Kilo Sports Trenadrol than Epi? I'd like to run it at the end of a bridge I'll be doing to dry out and keep the gains coming. I had heard about Kilo Tren before but had since forgotten about it. Cheers, angel77

strength gains on trenadrol were FAR more explosive than on epi.

the two don't even compare in the strength department.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

i will say this...it WAS very fun being on epi.

it makes you feel good.

I agree I felt great while on Havoc.:thumbsup:

 

[angel77]

strength gains on trenadrol were FAR more explosive than on epi.

the two don't even compare in the strength department.

How did you dose the Kilosports Tren? Do you need 2 bottles? 60 in a bottle. I know at 3 a day I'd need 2. I noticed you said dosing higher didn't give you better gains. I also wondered about PCT for it. It's not a methyl so it seems it wouldn't be as harsh? Let me know. I can get me the Kilo Tren cheap. Cheers, angel77:thumbsup:

 

[boo99]

strength gains on trenadrol were FAR more explosive than on epi.

the two don't even compare in the strength department.

Hmmm wonder if I should stack these two starting this week--

just kidding but very tempting but I tell you this----
Summer cylce or when its time (3-4 mos)----Im def. doing a trenadrol cycle for sure.

 

[ibanezman08]

How did you dose the Kilosports Tren? Do you need 2 bottles? 60 in a bottle. I know at 3 a day I'd need 2. I noticed you said dosing higher didn't give you better gains. I also wondered about PCT for it. It's not a methyl so it seems it wouldn't be as harsh? Let me know. I can get me the Kilo Tren cheap. Cheers, angel77:thumbsup:

ok, please don't use my dosages as a guide. i am a bit more daring and perhaps stupid than most of the people posting here. i am also very experienced with bodybuilding, dieting, and pro-hormones.

i ran trenadrol for 5 weeks at 150mg. the bottle only says to take 90mg for 4 weeks i think. 150mg is 5 pills a day. the second time i ran trenadrol, i ran it for 6 weeks at 90mg and got relatively the same results.

i ran epistane for 7 1/2 weeks at 60mg. that's 6 pills a day.

i needed 2 bottles for each but i didn't use up the entire bottle for both. i had some left over for both.

epi bottles are 90 caps each if i remember correctly. i ran it for so long because of the gains i got. not very many. but the longer i ran it, the more i realized that i wasn't gonna gain more than i had already after 5 weeks which was 6lbs just like trenadrol.

i also gained 6lbs on trenardol. epi made me gain about 10lbs on every exersise. trenadrol made me gain about 35lbs on every exersise. more or less.

the only thing i can think of that might make this experiement unfair is that since epistane was my first pro-hormone, i started at 10mg and then worked up to 20mg for the first week. the second week, i went from 20-30, and i stayed at 30 for another week, and then i ran 40mg for 2 more weeks. then i jumped up to 50mg for a couple days and ended the cycle at 60mg. for trenadrol, i started at 60mg for a couple of days, and then went up to 90mg by the end of the first week. so i ramped up much faster which could've sped up my gains.

again, please don't copy or use my dosages as a guide. they are not safe dosages IMO and neither are the lengths.

now, don't get me started on the s-drol i ran. it was a superdrol clone. i ran that at 40mg for 5 weeks and gained 13lbs solid and added about 40lbs to every exersise. but it made me feel like ass.

 

[angel77]

ok, please don't use my dosages as a guide. i am a bit more daring and perhaps stupid than most of the people posting here. i am also very experienced with bodybuilding, dieting, and pro-hormones.

i ran trenadrol for 5 weeks at 150mg. the bottle only says to take 90mg for 4 weeks i think. 150mg is 5 pills a day. the second time i ran trenadrol, i ran it for 6 weeks at 90mg and got relatively the same results.

i ran epistane for 7 1/2 weeks at 60mg. that's 6 pills a day.

i needed 2 bottles for each but i didn't use up the entire bottle for both. i had some left over for both.

epi bottles are 90 caps each if i remember correctly. i ran it for so long because of the gains i got. not very many. but the longer i ran it, the more i realized that i wasn't gonna gain more than i had already after 5 weeks which was 6lbs just like trenadrol.

i also gained 6lbs on trenardol. epi made me gain about 10lbs on every exersise. trenadrol made me gain about 35lbs on every exersise. more or less.

the only thing i can think of that might make this experiement unfair is that since epistane was my first pro-hormone, i started at 10mg and then worked up to 20mg for the first week. the second week, i went from 20-30, and i stayed at 30 for another week, and then i ran 40mg for 2 more weeks. then i jumped up to 50mg for a couple days and ended the cycle at 60mg. for trenadrol, i started at 60mg for a couple of days, and then went up to 90mg by the end of the first week. so i ramped up much faster which could've sped up my gains.

again, please don't copy or use my dosages as a guide. they are not safe dosages IMO and neither are the lengths.

now, don't get me started on the s-drol i ran. it was a superdrol clone. i ran that at 40mg for 5 weeks and gained 13lbs solid and added about 40lbs to every exersise. but it made me feel like ass.

I'm running a P-Plex and SDrol bridge in 2 months. Out of the Tren, Epi, and SDrol, what gains were easiest to maintain? I gained 35 lbs on bench when I took Havoc. I have maintained most but did lose a little strength. Weight was very tough to maintain. I kept probably 5-8 lbs out of 15lbs I gained while on. I looking forward to my bridge. Cheers and officially Happy New Year! BTW-I'd probably dose the Tren at 90mg and see how it went. I noticed sides at 50mg of Havoc so I kept it at 40. Very good gains though.

 

[ffmedic32]

1/1/2009

Weight-199.8

Workout--ME Bench Day

Floor Presses
135x6
155x3
185x3
205x3
225x3
245x1
255x1
265x1
275x about half motion( No spotter today)
Lockouts on pins
225x3
255x1
275x1
295x1
315x1
335x1
JM Presses
95x6
135x6
155x6
155x6
Incline Skullcrushers
95x6
105x6
105x6
Seated DB Military Presses
65x6
75x5
80x4
Chest Supported Rows
180x8
230x6
270x6
Cable Pressdown
110x8
130x8
150x8
Hanging Leg Raise
3 sets 15,12,12
Weighted Crunch Machine
130x15
150x12
150x12
***DONE***

 

[ffmedic32]

1/2/2009

Weight-200.7

Workout- Dynamic Lower Body Day

Box Squats Just above Parallel
barx12
150# Band Resistancex10
225 Barbell Weight + 150 Bands x2
8 sets of 245 Barbell Weight + 150 Bands x2
Dimmel Deadlifts
3 sets of 185x10
One legged Sled Press
90x20 each leg
90x15 each leg
One Legged Laying Leg Curl
45x7 each leg
75x5 each leg
75x5 each leg
75x6 each leg
Reverse Hypers
4 sets of 10x15
Barbell Shrugs
3 sets of 315x10
Barbell Curl
3 sets of 70x10

P90X Ab Ripper X DVD

***DONE***

 

[trackstud100m]

1/1/2009

Weight-199.8

Workout--ME Bench Day

Floor Presses
135x6
155x3
185x3
205x3
225x3
245x1
255x1
265x1
275x about half motion( No spotter today)
Lockouts on pins
225x3
255x1
275x1
295x1
315x1
335x1
JM Presses
95x6
135x6
155x6
155x6
Incline Skullcrushers
95x6
105x6
105x6
Seated DB Military Presses
65x6
75x5
80x4
Chest Supported Rows
180x8
230x6
270x6
Cable Pressdown
110x8
130x8
150x8
Hanging Leg Raise
3 sets 15,12,12
Weighted Crunch Machine
130x15
150x12
150x12
***DONE***

I see your training is westside style, when is your next meet?

 

[trackstud100m]

Didn't need Taurine for back pumps. I would spread your dose out but I wouldn't take after 6pm. It rattled my sleep a bit when I took after 6. I dosed 10mg at 6am. 20mg pre-workout at 11:00 and 10mg at 5:00pm and blood levels were consistant throughout. Havoc affected my HDL (good cholesterol).It was very low after cycle (in the 20's)but LDL wasn't too bad at all. Keep your Cycle Support going for sure.
40mg should be fine but don't think that you have to jump right to 40mg immediately. ramping it up 20 for a few days, 30 for up to a week and 40 from then on shouls allow 1 bottle to do the trick and gains wouldn't be hindered a bit. Building it up as opposed to jumping to 40mg right away may prevent some sides. Hope this helps. Cheers, angel77:twisted:

Is the cycle support necssary, could he just take nolva during pct and call it the day.

 

[ffmedic32]

I see your training is westside style, when is your next meet?

Well right now the next thing I have in sight is the Ohio Police and Fire Games in June this year. I did just find that there is a push/pull in my hometown of Clinton, IN in March sometime so that might give me a reason to go visit the fam.

 

[trackstud100m]

Well right now the next thing I have in sight is the Ohio Police and Fire Games in June this year. I did just find that there is a push/pull in my hometown of Clinton, IN in March sometime so that might give me a reason to go visit the fam.

So are you planning your cycles around your meet schedule?

 

[CopyCat]

Is the cycle support necssary, could he just take nolva during pct and call it the day.

He could do it like that if he wants to potentially do serious damage to himself

 

[trackstud100m]

He could do it like that if he wants to potentially do serious damage to himself

I dont understand, I have done many cycles test prop, tren ace etc and never taken any of that cycle support stuff nor never heard of it prior to joining this site. If you are a member on some of the steroid forums they think all that cycle support stuff is a waste of money.

 

[gelin]

I dont understand, I have done many cycles test prop, tren ace etc and never taken any of that cycle support stuff nor never heard of it prior to joining this site. If you are a member on some of the steroid forums they think all that cycle support stuff is a waste of money.

Those that you used previously weren't methylated oral compounds though. I mean, tren obviously has its own set of issues, but the thing with most of the legal / quasi-legal stuff that is sold these days & discussed in detail on this board, is that it's much rougher on the liver than injectables.

Someone running drol or dbol would be wise to use liver support of some kind, mind you. Not as important with var, though it's also a 17-methyl cpd.

 

[trackstud100m]

Those that you used previously weren't methylated oral compounds though. I mean, tren obviously has its own set of issues, but the thing with most of the legal / quasi-legal stuff that is sold these days & discussed in detail on this board, is that it's much rougher on the liver than injectables.

Someone running drol or dbol would be wise to use liver support of some kind, mind you. Not as important with var, though it's also a 17-methyl cpd.

Also when I have taken orals(Winstrol/Var/drol/furazabol/Halotestin/Turinabol/superdrol), I never done any liver support while on the cycle because it tends to decrease the effectiveness of the compounds. I usually save all liver support for PCT. Also remember I am a athlete so I take very very small amounts, for example 30mg of winstrol or tbol.

 

[CopyCat]

People are trying to protect there liver, kidneys, blood pressure etc and minimize the damaging effects. You don't have to take support supps, and some people have done cycles without them and been fine, while others were not fine. Simple as that. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Orangepeel]

people who say they gained 15lbs off of havoc/epistane are victims of placebo.

$20 says Havoc has the ability to help lean you out, and still put on 20Lb's in 5 weeks if you do it right! Ask me how I know

 

[ffmedic32]

$20 says Havoc has the ability to help lean you out, and still put on 20Lb's in 5 weeks if you do it right! Ask me how I know

20# of quality gains would be awesome in 5 weeks,,But I dont really expect that kinda results.LOL

 

[ffmedic32]

So are you planning your cycles around your meet schedule?

No I am starting this cycle now as a trial, since its my first. If it goes well I could possible run a 2nd this summer for my meet. Not sure yet.

 

[ffmedic32]

1/3/2009

Weight~200

Workout- Light Weight Higher Reps Upper Body

I did not log anything today, since I was supersetting everything and just going for a good overall pump.

With the deal Nutraplanet has on Havoc right now, I believe they might have just help me make up my mind about dosing and cycle length. So I think I will order a 2nd bottle and go balls to the walls.

Peace

 

[ffmedic32]

1/4/2009

Weight- 200

Workout- Dynamic Bench Day

Treadmill 4.2 mph for 30 min before breakfast

Flat Bench
10 sets of 145x3 using 3 diff grips all sets under 3 sec
Incline DB Press
35x30
35x25
35x28
Lying DB Extension (Palms In)
6 sets of 25x10
Bent Over Laterals
3 sets of 25x12
Lateral DB Raise
3 sets of 25x12
Bent Over DB One Arm Row
3 sets of 60x12
Standing Side Crunches with DB
20 each side with 60#DB
P90X Ab Ripper X DVD

~DONE~

 

[ffmedic32]

1/5/2009

Weight-200

Workout- ME Squat Day
Parrallel Box Squats
Barx12
150# Bandsx3
135 BB + 150 Band x3
225 BB + 150 Band x3
245 BB + 150 Band x3
275 BB + 150 Band x3
300 BB + 150 Band x3
315 BB + 150 Band x1
335 BB + 150 Band x a flippin miss
Stiff Legged Deadlifts
185x5
205x5
225x5
Reverse Hypers
25x10
35x10
45x10
45x10
Chest Supported Rows
180x7
270x5
270x5
270x5
Hammer Curls
30x15
35x10
40x10
45x10
Weighted Ab Work

DONE

 

[ffmedic32]

Well I am starting Havoc one week from today on the 12th. Thanks to Nutraplanet having a really great sale price on Havoc, I have ordered a 2nd bottle and plan to run a 5 week cycle now. I took measurments today to have a starting point, can't wait to see how Havoc works for me!

1/5/2009
WEIGHT 201
NECK 16
CHEST 43
BI 13 3/4
BI-FLEX 15 1/2
FOREARM 12 3/4
WAIST 34
QUAD 25 3/4
CALVE 16
BF % 11.20% By Accu-Measure Calipers,,I really dont think that I am that low, but its a reference point.
CHEST 12
ABD 19
THIGH 6

 

[ffmedic32]

1/6/2009

Weight~197.6

Workout~Cardio and Abs

35 min @ 4mph @5% Incline Treadmill

P90X Ab Ripper X DVD

6 sets of light bicep curls

~Done~

 

[ffmedic32]

1/7/2009

Workout~Max Effort Bench

Floor Press
Barx12
135x5
185x3
225x3
245x1
260x1
275x1
Pin Lockouts
225x3
260x1
275x1
300x1
315x1
325xMiss
Close Grip Bench(Hands on Smooth Part)
185x7
205x5
225x5
245x3
Kettlebell Tricep Extensions
35x7
35x10
40x7
Lat Pull Down
110x8
130x8
150x5
Reverse Grip Bent Over BB Row
135x8
205x5
205x6
Seated DB Military Press
65x5
75x5
85x3 with a little assistance
One Arm DB Rows
100x6
110x6
Hanging Leg Raises
3 sets of 15
Weighted Oblique Crunches on Machine
2 sets of 10 with stack
Decline Situps
2 sets of 15

~DONE~

 

[ffmedic32]

1/8/2009

Workout~ DE Squat Day

35 Minutes 4.0 @ 5% Incline Treadmill

Parellel Box Squats
12 sets of 225 Bar Weight + Avg Bands x 2 reps
Speed Deads
205 for 6 singles
Dimel Deads
3 sets of 205x8
Close Stance Squat
95x25
95x25
Seated Leg Curl with Avg Band
15,15,12,12 Done single leg
Good Mornings with Avg Band
15,15,15,15
Barbell Shrugs
3 sets of 225x12
Barbell Curl
65x10
75x12
75x12
High rep/High Volume Ab Work

30 Minutes of Treadmill at 4.0 mph

~DONE~

 

[angel77]

nice logging man. keep it up! you'll see great gains by beginning of week 3. Cheers, angel77:head:

 

[ffmedic32]

1/9/2009

Non workout day due to having EOD squad training all day. I suppose blowing up ordnance and burning a bunch of drugs could be considered some kinda cardio.

 

[ffmedic32]

1/11/2009
Day #1

Waking Weight~ 200.0

10am~10mg
4pm~10mg

Workout~ SPP Work for about 45 min

Ham-Glute Raise, Seated Calve Raise, Low Cable Pull Throughs, Hanging Leg Raises, Reverse Hypers, 1 Arm DB Side Crunches, Lying Leg Curls...

Everyhting supersetted

~DONE~

 

[ffmedic32]

1/12/2009

Day #2

Waking Weight~ 200.8

0830~10mg
1815~10mg

Workout~ Speed Bench Day

Flat Bench with Bands( 3 diff grips all about explosive speed)
125 BB Weight + Avg Bands for 9 sets
Straight Bar Skulls
70x10 for 5 sets
V-Bar Pressdowns
150x10 for 3 sets
Front Plate Raises
35x10 for 3 sets
Cable Side Delt Raise
30x10 for 3 sets
Lat Pulldowns
120x10 for 3 sets
Seated Cable Rows
120x10 for 2 sets

P90X CardioX DVD
P90X Ab Ripper X DVD

~DONE~

 

[crader]

Looks like your weight is going up. Would you say its muscle or fat? How do you feel on it, strength etc..

 

[ffmedic32]

Looks like your weight is going up. Would you say its muscle or fat? How do you feel on it, strength etc..

Yeah my weight was up a bit this morning, the Mrs's made all kinds of good food yesterday and I honestly pigged out, so that might be some of the weight gain. Not sure yet, I am only 2 days into the cycle so I have not seen or felt anything yet. My strength better go up because I have already told myself that I am benching 300 on my ME day the 31st.

 

[crader]

Whoops I thought you were further along!

 

[maurice02]

subbed to this.

 

[ffmedic32]

Day#3

1/13/2009

Waking Weight~201.6

0615~10mg
1630~10mg........Bumping up to 30mg tomorrow

Workout~Speed Squat Day

Good workout felt great, I was sweating my a** off and my arms looked more vascular(and it was leg day), so overall a good feeling today.

Parallel Box Squat
115 Barbell Weight + Avg Bands Choked to bottome of power rack and around a DB for 10 sets/2 reps
Dimel Deads
185x10
185x10
185x10
Single Legged Leg Extension
40x30 each leg
Avg Band Seated Hamstring Curls
3 sets of 10
Lower Cable Pull Throughs
90x10
105x10
105x10
Reverse Hyper
20x15
20x15
20x15
Incline DB Curl
30x10
30x12
30x12

~DONE~

 

[ffmedic32]

Day #4 1/14/2009

Waking Weight~ 203.4

0800~10mg
1400~10mg
2000~10mg

Workout~ Lightweight accersory work today.

Glute Ham Raise
15
15
25# DB for 12
Standing Calve Raises
100x15
100x15
100x15
Hanging Leg Raises
3 sets of 15
Lying Leg Curl
90x12
90x12
90x12
Preacher Curls
65x10
65x10
65x10
Leg Press Calve Raises
180x20
180x20
180x20
Machine Oblique Crunches
120x10
120x10
120x10
Pec Deck Flye
90x15
105x12
105x10
One Arm Cable Curl
30x15
40x12
50x10
Supported Leg Raises
3 sets of 10 wth a 10# DB between feet
Rotary Chest Press
100x20
100x20
100x20
Preacher Curl Machine
70x10
70x10
70x10
Weighted Ab Work
175x12
175x12
175x12

Rotator Cuff Rehab Work

Shovel the driveway for Cardio

~DONE~

Overall great feeling today. Really suprised to see my weight going up this early into the cycle, but damn I love it!!!!

 

[Chub]

Looking good bud, keep it up

 

[Nick26]

Yeah Looks good keep up the work and keep posting. Is all going well? Nothing negative so far or just seem the same, as far as day to day activity?

 

[cerezyn]

I was just wondering where you get your products from, especially your liquid Tamoxifen Citrate? I can't find a reputable source.

 

[Chub]

I was just wondering where you get your products from, especially your liquid Tamoxifen Citrate? I can't find a reputable source.

no asking for sources. you can get banned for it :shhh:

 

[maurice02]

looks like your weight is definitely heading up. I am 7 days in and up about 1/2 a pound if that. Been eating so clean on my end that I assume it is probably just that. keeping it balanced.

Keep it going. Looking good!

 

[cerezyn]

no asking for sources. you can get banned for it :shhh:

My bad still new, still getting used to the rules.

 

[ffmedic32]

Yeah Looks good keep up the work and keep posting. Is all going well? Nothing negative so far or just seem the same, as far as day to day activity?

I have noticed a few minor things so far. During workout my arms are more vascular than normal, no notice in strength yet.

Only negative that I can say I have experienced so far are some minor headaches. Not even 100% sure they are from the Havoc, but just more of a annoying deal than anything.

 

[ffmedic32]

looks like your weight is definitely heading up. I am 7 days in and up about 1/2 a pound if that. Been eating so clean on my end that I assume it is probably just that. keeping it balanced.

Keep it going. Looking good!

I have been keeping it clean, just trying to bump the calories up some. I have not tracked my macros or anything just more going by feel.

 

[ffmedic32]

I was just wondering where you get your products from, especially your liquid Tamoxifen Citrate? I can't find a reputable source.

No asking for sources man.

I will tell ya do some research

 

[ffmedic32]

Day #5 1/15/2009

Waking Weight~202.2

Workout~ME Bench Day

Flat BB Bench(Board Presses
Barx25
135x3
185x3
225x1
255x1 off 3 boards
275x1 off 3 boards
290x1 off 3 boards
300x1 off 3 boards
310x1 off 4 boards
JM Presses
135x10
135x10
135x10
135x10
Laying DB Extension with palms in(all sets enhanced with mini bands around back)
30x12
35x8
35x8
35x8
35x8
Seated DB Military Press
60x8
60x8
60x8---At firehouse today and 60's are the biggest we have here..Which sucks
Wide Grip Chins
12
8
10
Reverse Grip Bent Over Row
135x8
185x6
185x6

~DONE~

Nothing special to report today. Tomorrow is ME Squat day and my hams/glutes are still sore from yesterday, so this might be fun.

 

[maurice02]

as far as your mentioning of headaches, I can tell you that the first 3 - 4 days I had a mild headache. Wasn't as much of a pain but more of an annoyance. Knock on wood it went away. It was a constant headache too........bringing my assumption to Havoc and just took time for the body to get acclimated to it.