Ergomax LMG/4AD vs. Mdien/4AD

[methyl-D]

Day 33: Wednesday
Legs
Good lord the pumps today were.....extreme! My legs were just engorged with blood. Felt great. Did squats first, then superset extensions and leg presses, then superset curls with calf raises. Get this...got my body fat % tested today. Trainer measured it 2 ways. First with calipers w/digital readout, then with this thing that you program height/weight/age. You hold it out in front of you and press start....takes about 5 seconds or so. Suprisingly, both came out the exact same....9.7%, less than when I started. Bulking cycle? 4500 cals/day. Explain that one. Heres a pic I snapped tonight. Fresh coat of 4AD so im kinda shiney

 

[DR.D]

... Active ingredient in t-drive is listed as 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione

Sounds like you can sub this for RXT, same active, so you only need one or the other.

 

[methyl-D]

ok cool thanks dr.d:thumbsup:

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I wonder if some of the weight loss is water weight. ergo bloated me. I hear mdien is a good one for cutting.
raise the calories again. picks look good.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 34: Thursday
REST
thanks wasted. Yea im trying to get 5000cals in now. Its a bitch for me to eat 5000 cals and still keep them good and mostly clean. Hey check this out....one thing I was thinking about today that I havent mentioned before is that I get BAD migraine headaches. I usually get at least one a week. Since starting this cycle, I HAVE NOT HAD ONE HEADACHE:head: . (except for one at very very beginning). Any thoughts??

 

[DR.D]

... Since starting this cycle, I HAVE NOT HAD ONE HEADACHE:head: . (except for one at very very beginning). Any thoughts??

Changes in neurohormone metabolism? Serotonin or dopamine maybe. Could be reduced peripheral vascular resistance or water loss (like wasted said) also, if they were migraine headaches.

 

[methyl-D]

I always thought water loss was a trigger for headaches :think: . I feel like it has to be hormone related... I have not had even the slightest hint of a headache in over a month now. I wonder what's gonna happen when I start PCT.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 35: Friday
Chest Day!!!!!
Yeeeeesssssss.......chest day today. Pump was insane. NEW PERSONAL BEST!! 260X7 for flat!! then X5, X4, and 255X4. Incline 185X8, 195X6, X5, X4, then I did great on my other lifts as well. Decreasing dose to 8mg ed starting tomorrow. PCT starts next Sat.

 

[methyl-D]

Whats up strikern? Suprisingly my libido has been affected very little. Hopefully my luck holds out through pct. Libido hasnt really been an issue yet though.

 

[DR.D]

I always thought water loss was a trigger for headaches :think: ...

It can be, but holding too much water really promotes vascular headaches. That's why caffeine (a diuretic and cranial vasoconstrictor) is so good for migraines.

 

[methyl-D]

Interesting......hmm I had really been trying to avoid as much caffeine as possible before starting this cycle. During cycle, however, I feel more mope tired during the day sometimes and have been taking stacker 2s. I wonder if that could have something to do with it then......hmmmmmmmm

 

[methyl-D]

striker id be interested to see how the pre load of 4AD works for you. If you do a log take before and after pics like I wish I would have done. Id def like to see a log though bro!

 

[methyl-D]

Day 36: Sat
Rested today......Kinda just been slacking all day. Decreased mdien to 8mg today until next sat. Still on ATD 25mg morning and night as well as 20mg nolva ed in the evening

 

[methyl-D]

Day 36: Sunday
Legs/Back/Bis
Went to the gym this morning and did legs. Very good workout. Did squats 225 X 10 no problem. Best yet! Great leg workout and took about 45mins. Went back to the gym this afternoon after a nap and did back/bis to make up for yesterday. Great workout! Lots of energy during both workouts.

 

[kasket]

Hmmmm MDien...You need to take alot to make it a solid bulker. You should have went with something like SD/MD/PP.

 

[methyl-D]

yea if I do another PH cycle I think id like to try prostanozol and pheraplex. Lots of people are having good results with little sides. Pherplex is supposed to be comparable to ergomax lmg, which was my favorite part of this cycle. So I think I would try a 4 weeker of that. Well, off to da gym for a late workout. Took a nap AGAIN today. you think my tiredness/ laziness is just the shock of cutting my mdien dosage in half? Plus no 4AD anymore. Its the only thing thats changed in my daily routine so thats what im thinkin

 

[texas]

sweet log, this makes me looking forward to runnin another 4ad/sd cycle

 

[stinkfist]

Nice log methyl, looks like the cycle has gone well for you. Reading your log made me think that I have a good deal of 4AD that I have never ever used. What do you guys think would work well to stack it with? I would like to bulk up and try to avoid those back pumps associated with SD because I'm on a strongman routine.

 

[DR.D]

Fist,

Anadrol, Dbol, PP for orals or 1T, Deca, Fina for a good trans or subdermal 4AD bulking partners. Basically, use 4AD like test, but it's less anabolic and more androgenic, so keep that in mind.

 

[methyl-D]

Nice log methyl, looks like the cycle has gone well for you. Reading your log made me think that I have a good deal of 4AD that I have never ever used. What do you guys think would work well to stack it with? I would like to bulk up and try to avoid those back pumps associated with SD because I'm on a strongman routine.

Millwood suggested a couple cycles with 4AD as a preloader. I thought they looked ineresting. check em out
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolics/24865-sd-m1t-mdien-4ad.html?highlight=mdien

 

[methyl-D]

Day 37: Monday
Shoulders/tris
Very nice pump today. Went heavier than normal on everything. Did arnold presses first instead of military. I think ill be doing this for a while. Also met a guy who is going to go through a leg rountine with me on Monday. This guys legs are MASSIVE. Talked to him for a while and he had some good idea on how to change my split and routine. Looking forward to this one! I wanna have to be carried out to my car! Ill let you know how it goes. Rest tomorrow, prolly start up with legs again on thurs so I have ample recovery time for next mon.

 

[methyl-D]

striker when you starting bro??? you gonna log it? Know what you're going with for sure?

 

[methyl-D]

retain or no retain...that is the question...

Yea I have a bottle of retain. Is this stuff worth it. Did a search but everyone who has taken it has taken all kinds of other **** with it. Its hard to see what effects retain itself actually had. Its methylated. thats something I dont really like about it right away. Anyone have any input??

 

[methyl-D]

Day 38: Tues
REST

 

[DR.D]

... I know Dr. D said to start with 20mg but its my first methyl and wanna see how I react first.

Very good idea! You may want to hold at 10mg for a few weeks to assess it if it's your first methyl. Personally, I like 15mg best. Perfect dose to avoid sides and still see results.

 

[methyl-D]

I took 1g milk thistle ed for 3 weeks before cycle.....then 500mg ed during cycle. How many weeks is ur cycle gonna be? I REALLY liked starting at 20mg ed w/ergo. I did have the puffy nipple issue though, not to say that starting at 10 would have prevented it. I started seeing gains at the tail end of week 2 with MUCH more noticable gains in week 3. Makes me wonder what 4 weeks on ergo would have been like. Its up to you. I was 202lbs at start. How much do you weigh? I think maybe if I could go back I would have pre-loaded 4AD a week at maybe 300mg ed.

 

[DR.D]

Since they're 10mg caps isn't it hard to get 15 by just breaking them or opening rather? I don't have a scale laying around anymore....Any tips?

I open the cap and empty half into an empty gel cap the same size to make 2 different 5mg caps. It's a slow process!

 

[methyl-D]

D what do you think about retain??

 

[methyl-D]

Day 39: Wed
Legs
Good workout....nice pump....didnt go as heavy as usual but more reps on everything. 8-10 reps on most lifts.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 40: Thurs
Chest
VERY good workout. Amazing pump! Did incline first for a change. HAD NO IDEA i could do 230 for 7 reps on incline. I have been doing it after flat for about 3 months. Usually rep 195 with incline. Then went to decline...sets of 225. Did flat third and STILL was at 225!!! Very suprised...Finished up with flies (40lb dumbells) and then did some ab work

 

[methyl-D]

Day 41: Fri
REST
In confernces all day today....gonna hit back and shoulders tomorrow then do bis/tris on Sunday. I keep thinking about my chest workout yesterday and how impressed I was with myself. I did not expect this kind of a strength increase from this cycle. Bench has gone from 235X6 to 260X7 last time I did flat first!!!! Craziness!! Squats have gone from 135X10 for 3 sets to 225X8 for 3 sets!!! Everything else has followed suit. Couldnt be happier...now just have to wait and see what happens during and after PCT, which starts on Sun.

 

[DR.D]

D what do you think about retain??

I've not had a positive impression when I used it. In other words, I can't say it is or isn't working. Other people give mixed reviews, so I'm just not sure of it's value yet or how it would best be applied.

 

[methyl-D]

PCT started on Sunday..Only thing I notice so far is a constant stomache ache..not bad but irritating. I did switch proteins to Probolic SR from Myoplex so maybe that has something to do with it??

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

well lets hear an overview of your cycle with begining and ending stats.
did you like it? did you gain enough weight. I'll be keeping an eye to see how much to retain also.

 

[methyl-D]

Wasted this was the only cycle I have ever done so its hard to say what "enough" weight really means. I am happy with it. Looking back now I wish I would have done ergo alone for longer. I think that mdien would be an excellent cutter. I blew up on ergo and struggled to keep my weight up on mdien...even at 4500-5000cals/day. I gained a total of about 12lbs. I was VERY happy with strength gains on this cycle. This was the best attribute of this cycle for me.
Beginning of cycle stats
Weight-202lbs
arms- 16"
forearms- 12.5"
chest- 41"
waist- 32"
thighs- 22.5"
calf-15"

End of cycle stats
Weight-214lbs
Arms-16.5"
Forearms-12.75"
Chest-42.75" (SWEET)
Waist-32.5"
Thigh-23"
Calf-15"

Yea I am also curious to see how much I will retain during and after PCT. I will keep on updating.

 

[oparedes]

question, how come I hear all these great things about ErgoMax and I hear nothing but crap about E..max?

isn't it supposed to be the same product?

 

[methyl-D]

they are 2 different compounds

 

[JonasDavidsson]

they are 2 different compounds

what do you mean?they tested out to be the same?

 

[UnicronSpawn]

I didnt get in on the very first run of Ergomax when ALRI did that limited run. But I tried the E-max when they came back out w/ it. ALR said it was the exact same thing with a different label. I was cutting at the time, so I didnt get much bigger, but I did get good strength and lean mass out of it.

So Methyl-D, how are your gains holding up now that youve been off for a while?

I occasionally use MDien for lean mass, but I dont really get results unless I bump it up to at least 20mg's ED. And even then I ussually stack it with some other mild compound.

 

[John Smeton]

well howd post cycle therapy work out for ya..did u do anymore cycles since.I read every post in all 12 pages

whats your strength like compared to what it was example incline for 245 7 x's bench 260 8 x's or so

 

[methyl-D]

Im just getting back into the swing of things after a back injury at work. Been 2 months since last time ive lifted heavy. 225 feels like 280. ****ty. Still got a bottle of ergo and a bottle of pheraplex so im planning something for late fall. Ill post results on here. Sorry I couldnt get you guys more feedback after PCT. Crappy time to get hurt bros

 

[John Smeton]

focusing ONLY on Mdein. did mdien cause any hair shredding?

any particular sides? mdein ****(as users have called it?)

ive read different places while i researched it a while back that it caused some people the shred hair? then strageo posted something on a website that said it 's mild like mohn.

ive heard more reveiews that its extremely potent and can cause major side effects...?

 

[oparedes]

OK,

Can one of you please help me come up with a good cycle?

this is what I have to work with:

ErgoMax
X-Mass
MegaTNR

how can I stack these? can I stack these?

I've done 3 cycles of Superdrol with proper liver protection and post cycle therapy and I have seen great results.

Please let me know what you guys think.