Ergomax LMG/4AD vs. Mdien/4AD

[methyl-D]

thanks wasted. been waiting for some input on that

 

[methyl-D]

I actually ended up ordering T Drive from Island Supplements. I was told it is a good ATD product and recommended for on cycle use

 

[methyl-D]

besides the puffy nipples issue, I couldnt be happier with this cycle so far. Squats are way up, bench is up, endurance is up. Today was chest and I had an insane pump (workout ended 1 hour ago.....still feel full and pumped. I notice that I get moody more often than usual but no major changes in aggression. Can anyone tell me what changes I can expect when I make the switch to mdien? 4AD will stil be run except for the last week

 

[DR.D]

ATD is a great choice on cycle. It works fast to control puffy nips/gyno from my experience. Mdiene is more no-nonsense that Ergo. Mental focus is high and there is no extra bloat, plus fat burning seems better.

 

[methyl-D]

Dr.D how much ATD do you recommend and at what time of day?

 

[methyl-D]

Today was back/bis. Great workout. Took a couple stacker 2s about 1 hour before workout. I was wired! Went very heavy on everything. Great endurance. Weight is up 7 lbs since start of cycle. I have lost a little definition in my abs, but no change in waist measurement. People are starting to tell me I look fuller than usual in my chest/shoulders area. I can feel it too. Really filling out those XL tees now. My T drive still hasnt arrived. I have taken 2 20mg doses of nolva, 1 each day since I noticed the puffy nips, just to keep everything in check until the t drive arrives. I know its not good, but hopefully the t drive will come tomorrow.

 

[DR.D]

Dr.D how much ATD do you recommend and at what time of day?

25-50mg AM and/or PM. Only need more if test is stacked with it.

 

[methyl-D]

thanks bro. Well, took the day off as I have felt exhausted all day. Shoulders/tris tomorrow.

 

[methyl-D]

shoulder tris today. This is day 15 btw. workout was awesome. Incredible pump in shoulders. Tris were good too. I have so much more energy at the gym than usual. I just dont want to leave lol. puffy nips are gone thanks to T Drive. Upped the ergo to 30mg ed starting today. Will keep it at 30 till Fri and switch to mdiene. Anyone think this is a bad idea? Ive read of people having very good results at 30

 

[methyl-D]

Day 16! Superbowl!
Rest Day!

 

[methyl-D]

day 17: Legs
Destroyed my legs today...could barely even walk when I was done. walked out of the gym like I had a broom shoved up my ass lol. Weight is going up every time I lift. starting weight for squats at beginning of cycle was 155X10, today was 185X10. How do I post pics on this site. says it wants a URL??? I just want to take pics off my hard drive. Someone please let me know. Id like to post some pics of my back. Scoliosis is still very easy to see, but musculature is getting much better and looks more symmetrical than at the start of my cycle

 

[methyl-D]

ok I think I got it.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 18: Chest
Workout was awesome but WTF!!?? Puffy nips are back again. Actually they never fully went away but got much smaller, then I woke up this morning and BAM theyre back. Very upsetting. Took pics this time. What do you guys think? Progesterone? Maybe nolva isnt the appropriate course of action? Again they are not hard, except when cold. Squeeze them and nothing comes out. They can be pressed in and no lump is present. Getting desperate here folks. Not sure if I want to continue on to mdiene if this **** keeps up. Im still on 25mg ATD in morning and at night.

 

[DR.D]

I'm not sure I really see it. No lumps? No tenderness or discharge? Hmm.. Mdiene never did me that way at all. You may be progestin sensitive alright. I don't think estrogen's the real problem.

 

[methyl-D]

remember its been ergomax lmg up to this point. I switch to mdiene on Sat for 3 weeks. What do you recommend? Cap cream?? Thanks 4 responding Dr.D

 

[methyl-D]

Also, dont forget that I am taking 600mg ed of trans 4AD. Could this play a role? how does it aromatise compared with ergo or midene. I was warned eariler about gyno sides being common with both ergo and mdiene

 

[methyl-D]

Day 19: Back/ Bis
yesterday/Wednesday. Workout was awesome. VERY heavy and excellent form. Did negatives on last set of every lift for back. Weight keeps going up. very pleased except for stupid nips. Very anxious to see what mdiene yields. That starts Sat. Day 21

 

[methyl-D]

Day 20: ??
Thurs
Dont know if im gonna work out today or not. Think im gonna take a nap. If I do go to the gym, itll be a lower weight/high rep shoulder workout

 

[DR.D]

remember its been ergomax lmg up to this point. I switch to mdiene on Sat for 3 weeks. What do you recommend? Cap cream?? Thanks 4 responding Dr.D

It may clear up now that the emax is over. Unless your nips are sore, I'd just wait and see.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 21: Fri
Yea thats what im thinkin Dr.D. Last day of Ergo today!! Starting with 16mg ed of mdiene tomorrow. Still taking 600mg ed of 4AD till the last week. Off day today (work interfering). Hitting chest tomorrow

 

[methyl-D]

ok mdiene starting today. Anyone have any suggestions on when to take? 4mg caps so maybe 1 every 5-6 hours to get 16 ed. or is it somehow better to take 8 morning and 8 night? Ive read of logs of people doing it both ways but I would think 4mg every 5 hours would be better. Any input would be appreciated

 

[DR.D]

Orals give a maximal anabolic response when doses are spread out evenly over the day, but cause greater shutdown when taken after 6pm. Liver toxicity is also reduced when doses are spread evenly. It's kind of a trade off between results and sides. If I'm on hCG or it's early in the cycle, I usually spread then evenly. If I'm on very suppressive stuff (like M1T for sure) or it's in the second half of the cycle like you are, I try to dose orals morning and noon only, or at least no later than 6 on w/o days. It's up to you, but those are some practical considerations.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 22 Sat
Thanks Dr.D. I didnt know about the greater shutdown if taken at night. With ergo, I was taking 10mg at 7, 10 at 3 and 10 at 11. Now I will take mdiene at 7,11,3 and 6 --4mg each dose for the next 2 weeks and cut back to 8 mg ed in the third week (also drop 4AD in the third week).
Today I did chest. Very good workout, very heavy, new personal best lifts flat bb bench. My old workout partner was in town, he couldnt believe how much stronger I am than a month ago. He is cutting and losing strength steadily. Tomorrow will be legs. Thanks to everyone following along thus far.

 

[methyl-D]

:wtf: I woke up at 7:30 today, had shower/breakfast (lots of complex carbs), usual morning routine. I CANNOT seem to wake up. Got 8.5 hours sleep and took a 2 hour nap so far today. WTF is wrong with me. Is it the switch to mdiene? Like my body was used to ergo and now doesnt know what to do? Im going to get some coffee and force myself to work out but I hate feeling this way. Today is leg day so hopefully the coffee will help.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 23: Sunday
Coffee worked for about an hour lol. Now im back to where I started.....passing out on my couch. Workout was good though. Up to 205 on squats 3X8. Much better than 3 weeks ago. Leg press is also going up like crazy. I go up about 15lbs every time I do legs. Extensions and curls - very heavy and controlled with emphasis on a good long negative phase. I hate driving home after legs. My leg shakes like crazy pushing in the clutch. I stall it sometimes lol. Its the calf raises that do me in. I spend alot of time stretching afterwards but it doesnt help

 

[DR.D]

It's usually a good sign that new muscle growth is just around the corner when your muscle glycogen stores increase out of nowhere. Assuming that explains you perceived hypoglycemia today.

 

[methyl-D]

update on measurements after completion of Ergomax LMG
Arms- 16.5" up .5"
Forearms- 12.5 NC
Chest- 42" up 1"
Waist- 33 up 1"
Thighs- 22.5" NC
Calf- 15" NC

Cant explain the lack of any growth in my thighs/calves, especially since my strength and endurance have gone up drastically. I knew my chest was getting bigger, that is very easy to feel. Also, bench has gone from sets of 235 3X6 to 255 3X6.

 

[methyl-D]

Hey D when I go in for bloodwork at the end of pct, what do I ask for. Dont mean to sound like a newb, but....i am lol. I mean do I just casually say "yea id like to get some bloodwork done"? Also, some people have gotten it done but with no lipid profiles, do I have to ask specifically to get lipid profiling done?

 

[DR.D]

Just ask for the general chem profile. You need lipids and liver enzymes mainly. If you get the "Plus" or deluxe panel, you can get a blood diff and thyroid too sometimes for just like 10 bucks more.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 24: Monday

Thanks Dr.D
Back/ Bis today
Great workout! Lots of energy thanks to stacker 2. Very lethargic for most of the day though. Still not as bad as yesterday. Very heavy on back. My rows went way up out of nowhere. Put my normal weight on and it felt very light (felt heavy a week ago lol)....went up 20lbs and pounded out a set of 8. Threw another 10 on and did 3 more sets of 6 very slow and controlled. My workout partner was spotting and his exact words were (What the **** dude?). Hes irritated from not gaining and doesnt know im taking anything lol. Its so fun. Pull-ups still the same # of reps as always but my weight has gone up about 10lbs or so. I was getting cramping in my traps/ shoulder area during the day. Then I layed down to do some abs and my legs cramped up very badly. Going to get some potassium tomorrow. Anything other suggestions on what I should take? I drink plenty of water and always stretch before and after workouts.

 

[methyl-D]

Quick question the doctor. For PCT I was planning on running Nolva, retain, T-drive, perfect cycle liver support and milk thistle. Should I include anything else? It seems pretty solid after doing some research on here.

 

[DR.D]

Yeah, no need to get too fancy. You have a SERM and a cortisol antagonist. If libido or something else becomes a problem, you can always add extra stuff as you go along.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 25: Tuesday

Thanks Dr.D, just making sure.

Shoulders/Tris today. Nice workout. Military bb press is Way up. Got 3 sets of 6 with 155. Top of my shoulder hurts a little now, but that happens sometimes with me for some reason. Tomorrow is a rest day and I def. feel like I need it. Not tired today at all :thumbsup: . Squeezed my nips today just to see if anything came out and a little fluid did come out. I will be taking 20mg ed of nolva just for peace of mind. Still no lump or anything. A little tenderness but thats it. Many people at the gym are starting to notice gains! I have been taking 50 mg of t drive ed for about 1.5 weeks as well. Very happy thus far. I feel more full than ever, but my weight has gone down slightly this week, even at 4000cal/day. I know its from my gut, my abs are showing cuts a little more.

 

[buffhunk29]

Nice

Hey there methyl-d nice log. glad to see everything is going well. keep it up baby keep those weights rising!!

 

[methyl-D]

Day 26: Wednesday
----Rest

 

[methyl-D]

Day 27: Thurs
Chest
Hey Buff thanx 4 visiting!
Chest felt amazing today. I was extremely hyper when I got to the gym. My bench is going up like crazy. First working set was 255X7, new personal best! second set was 260X5, then 260X4 and 260X3. Anyone have a guess as to what my max might be?? I seem to feel much tighter on mdiene than emax. Pumps are insane! Range of motion is definitely being effected, especially on incline. Anywayz, very happy with chest today! Now im exhaused though :yawn:

 

[buffhunk29]

sounds like an awesome chest day! i would have to say you strength is up haha and i bet you love it!!! you better keep up those strenght gains like that.
:woohoo:

 

[methyl-D]

Day 28: Fri
Shitty leg day
What a crappy day. Felt good all day until about 4 when I got home from work. I just crashed man. Started feeling very lethargic, even depressed. Took a 2 hour nap and felt better. Went to the gym, which I shouldnt have done but I felt guilty. Half way through legs, I crashed AGAIN. Sat on the locker room bench for 5 mins with my towel over my head. Just got home a little bit ago. God im in a bad mood. Going to bed now, taking tomorrow off. Will resume on Sun. My stupid nips are hurting worse now too. Thinking about getting some aromasin, dont know if its worth it though, only 2 weeks left on cycle, 1 of which is mdien is dropped to 8mg ed. What do U think D? Is it worth it? Aromasin isnt really for PCT is it? I dont want to competely eliminate all estrogen and have joint probs

 

[DR.D]

Don't worry about joint pain too much right now, fix the nips first man. RXT would work alright if you don't have any Aromasin or Letro.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 29: Saturday
R_E_S_T

 

[methyl-D]

Day 30: Sunday
Chest
Decided to do chest today because my old workout partner was in town again and that is our favorite thing to train together. We did an all-dumbell workout. Felt awesome, incredible pumps. Did flat, incline, flies superset w/ push-ups, and then dips at the end. It was great! Just what I needed after Friday. Thanks Dr.D. Should I stop t drive if I take rxt or take both for a while?

 

[methyl-D]

Day 31: Monday
Back/Bis
VERY good workout today! Pump just keeps getting better! Again very heavy and controlled. Seated rows still continuing to go heavier. I cant even describe the pumps. Best ive ever had. Mdien is definitely giving me better pumps than ergo. Ergo did make me gain much more weight though. Im happy with mdien except for the fact that it makes me feel lethargic sometimes. Lethargic and just kind of irritated in general. Im suprised but happy to report no noticable loss of libido at all so far this cycle.

 

[methyl-D]

Day 32: Tuesday
Shoulders/Tris
Wow them pumps today were insane with both shoulders and tris. Went VERY heavy on military, but then lighter reps of 10-12 for everything else. Arnold presses were AMAZING today. Felt like my shoulders were going to explode! Did some abs as well today (felt ambitious). Usually do them on leg day. Debating on getting more NO2 (almost out). Expensive, but lately my pumps have been so good that I dont want to change anything, even though I know the pumps are much more from the mdien.

 

[DR.D]

... Should I stop t drive if I take rxt or take both for a while?

What is in 't drive'?

 

[buffhunk29]

hey hey going on brotha? how is is the nipple going, that is bad news to hear man. sorry to hear that. are u read for this cycle to end or are u getting sad this is coming to an.

 

[Throw2far]

I thought I was sold on doing my first cycle as mdien/4ad. I have also read alot about emax lmg, which I also have. Which one do you guys recommend? I can also run the 4AD with LMG. I want to BULK. it seems that many have had better results on emax then mdien. Now im confused. Should I just do the emax/4AD? Keep it at 20/20/20/20/20 emax and 600mg ed for 4AD? From what I understand, 20 is the best for emax without experiencing alot of sides. I plan on starting on Mon so let me know what you guys think.

THAT IS NOT A CYCLE! ! !

 

[methyl-D]

I was under the impression that its just a good atd supp. Supposed to be very comparable to rebound xt. I didnt know if you meant that rebound has something else in it that would benefit me in my situation more than t-drive. Everyone says its really good though. Ive just been taking 20mg ed of nolva (caps) as well as 25mg of t drive and symptoms have gotten much better. Still a little tender. If I swueeze my nips now, there is just a little moisture I can see forming. Not like before when a couple drops would actually form. So its getting better. I was just planning on staying on 20mg ed of nolva and 25 of t drive until end of cycle which is on March 4th. I was worried about toxicity with the nolva on top of the mdien but it seems alot of people do it when they start expereincing symptoms. Some even run 20mg ed during their whole cycle. Active ingredient in t-drive is listed as 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione

 

[methyl-D]

THAT IS NOT A CYCLE! ! !

thanks for responding to the first post of this thread which was put up over a month ago. Why isnt it a cycle? Worked good so far. Keep your posts positive or give constructive criticism, anything else doesnt help and is pointless

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

any recomp noticable with the mdien?

 

[methyl-D]

Yes. Losing fat but still gaining strength---if thats what you r talking about. I dont understand it, I thought it would be a good bulker with 4AD. Now it seems like more of a cutter. About 3 weeks ago, I upped my cals to 4200-4700 ed, but I am still losing fat!? Cuts are definitely coming back in my abs. This is not what I want right now. I can cut naturally later, I just wanted to get all the bulk I could out of this. When I started taking in all those cals, I was on ergo. I blew up-gained 6lbs in a week. Weight gains tapered, but at least I was still gaining. Now mdien has reversed the process it seems. Down 3 lbs since last thurs. I can tell its all fat but still