Ecdysterone? Anyone heard of this?

[Quads_of_Stee]

Just loling at the crap storm that insued in here. Some people really are ignorant and blinded by their own thoughts

 

[kissdadookie]

on rats ....

I think they also tested it on cultures?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I think they also tested it on cultures?

oh im sure.. I was more just stating that it hasn't been tested on humans let alone highly trained ones afaik

 

[Mixelflick]

Really though, if your not interested in the product just don't purchase it!

Novel concept...:09:

What's even more astounding, is not taking advantage of something for free. Something that reliably turns 300lb benchers into 315lb benchers, in SIX workouts.

Luckyo has more effective methods though, I'm sure of it. You know, like "Cyanotis Vaga"? :tool:

 

[koi1214]

Novel concept...:09:

What's even more astounding, is not taking advantage of something for free. Something that reliably turns 300lb benchers into 315lb benchers, in SIX workouts.

PM sent.

 

[Mixelflick]

Got it. You'll have it shortly after emailing me.

I'd like you to post up you results here, that's all I ask...

 

[koi1214]

Got it. You'll have it shortly after emailing me.

I'd like you to post up you results here, that's all I ask...

Yes I will post my results here.

 

[GreenMachineX]

There's so much craziness in this thread that I can't distinguish good info from...less than good info. Is there a supplement here worth trying? That's all I'm trying to figure out.

 

[Mixelflick]

There's so much craziness in this thread that I can't distinguish good info from...less than good info. Is there a supplement here worth trying? That's all I'm trying to figure out.

There are 4 I'd consider worthy...

IForce Ecdy is the one sold here and I'd support you trying that during a cut/re-comp. Ecdy is a top shelf adaptogen, meaning it helps your body adapt faster/more efficiently to an environmental/biological stress. Cutting or dieting is seen by the body as such, and Ecdy will perform well here.

Board feedback over decades reveals it's almost 50/50, people either love it or hate it. Once you throw out the reviews of those using crap Ecdy (cyanotis vaga, etc), you spot a trend. Those in a caloric deficit and/or those imposing a severe training stress tend to favor Ecdy insofar as much better strength/muscle fullness/recovery etc.

Hope that helps..

 

[GreenMachineX]

Gotcha. Thanks man. Just follow label directions as far as dosing goes?

 

[paula]

Is ecdy can be substitute for ArA? Since i have a auto immune so i really stay away from ArA product. Looking for muscle mass building supps aside for creatine. I heard good review in predator about mass pro synthagen. Is iforce ecdy ok to substitute for mass pro? Since i cant afford yet to buy mass pro fro now

 

[Mixelflick]

Is ecdy can be substitute for ArA? Since i have a auto immune so i really stay away from ArA product. Looking for muscle mass building supps aside for creatine. I heard good review in predator about mass pro synthagen. Is iforce ecdy ok to substitute for mass pro? Since i cant afford yet to buy mass pro fro now

SHORT ANSWER: No, Ecdy isn't a substitute for ArA. ALTHOUGH, there's evidence to suggest it increases the pool of free arachidonic acid*.

*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC524647/

Iforce Ecdy is a quality product, and deserves a shot. Synthagen contains complimentary ingredients designed to amplify Ecdy's attributes, so it really isn't a fair comparison...

 

[paula]

Ok thanks rob. I was thingking if its ok to take mass pro. On during workoit days only? Or even nonworout days. I should still need to take it?

 

[Mixelflick]

Ok thanks rob. I was thingking if its ok to take mass pro. On during workoit days only? Or even nonworout days. I should still need to take it?

It's best to load your first bottle every day, as follows:

TRAINING DAYS: 5 caps immediately pre, 5 halfway through and 5 immediately after. Thereafter, dial it back to 4/4/4 etc until such time as you establish your LOWEST effective dose threshold. Being a lady, I'm guessing you need less but tough to say how much less. The above is the fastest way to find that dose, and it also allows you to experience MPS at full throttle.

OFF DAYS: 3 caps, 3 times/day just prior to your 3 biggest meals.

2nd bottle, training days only. This will help stretch your supply, while still getting the hallmark recovery benefits MPS is associated with .

 

[ELROCK]

It's best to load your first bottle every day, as follows:

TRAINING DAYS: 5 caps immediately pre, 5 halfway through and 5 immediately after. Thereafter, dial it back to 4/4/4 etc until such time as you establish your LOWEST effective dose threshold. Being a lady, I'm guessing you need less but tough to say how much less. The above is the fastest way to find that dose, and it also allows you to experience MPS at full throttle.

OFF DAYS: 3 caps, 3 times/day just prior to your 3 biggest meals.

2nd bottle, training days only. This will help stretch your supply, while still getting the hallmark recovery benefits MPS is associated with .

Good info Mixelflick. Since, I have a bottle on hand of iforce ecdy. What would be the best way to dose it in your opinion? It seems to have quite a bit less ecdy in it then your product does.

 

[ma70]

How much ecdy would one need for an effective dose? I like looking into natural anabolics/whatever you can categorize this stuff as. Would iForce's directions on their ECDY product be effective? Or does it have to be mega dosed?

 

[Mixelflick]

The amount of Ecdy in Synthagen is proprietary, but is plenty for your typical 200lb athlete. Future batches we're doubling that, given some new info I came across. With respect to dosing, probably best to leave this to the IForce reps, but here's my 2cc's... :veryhappy:

According to Dr. Syrov's paper, "Anabolic Activity of ecdysterone isolated from Rhaponticum Carthamoides" a 200lb trainee would need a minimum of 73mg/day. Timing is a BIG issue IMO. Your ecdy needs to be in circulation with EAA's, given a shortage of just ONE and protein synthesis grinds to a halt.

I'd suggest 2 caps Iforce Ecdy just prior to training with 6 grams of EAA's, and another serving immediately post with 20g of whey. Total of 4 caps on training days. In one study, protein synthesis increased 600% when 6 grams of EAA's were taken prior to training, vs only 400% prior. I do both, to cover all the bases

 

[ELROCK]

The amount of Ecdy in Synthagen is proprietary, but is plenty for your typical 200lb athlete. Future batches we're doubling that, given some new info I came across. With respect to dosing, probably best to leave this to the IForce reps, but here's my 2cc's... :veryhappy:

According to Dr. Syrov's paper, "Anabolic Activity of ecdysterone isolated from Rhaponticum Carthamoides" a 200lb trainee would need a minimum of 73mg/day. Timing is a BIG issue IMO. Your ecdy needs to be in circulation with EAA's, given a shortage of just ONE and protein synthesis grinds to a halt.

I'd suggest 2 caps Iforce Ecdy just prior to training with 6 grams of EAA's, and another serving immediately post with 20g of whey. Total of 4 caps on training days. In one study, protein synthesis increased 600% when 6 grams of EAA's were taken prior to training, vs only 400% prior. I do both, to cover all the bases

Thanks, Mixelflick

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

The amount of Ecdy in Synthagen is proprietary, but is plenty for your typical 200lb athlete. Future batches we're doubling that, given some new info I came across. With respect to dosing, probably best to leave this to the IForce reps, but here's my 2cc's... :veryhappy:

According to Dr. Syrov's paper, "Anabolic Activity of ecdysterone isolated from Rhaponticum Carthamoides" a 200lb trainee would need a minimum of 73mg/day. Timing is a BIG issue IMO. Your ecdy needs to be in circulation with EAA's, given a shortage of just ONE and protein synthesis grinds to a halt.

I'd suggest 2 caps Iforce Ecdy just prior to training with 6 grams of EAA's, and another serving immediately post with 20g of whey. Total of 4 caps on training days. In one study, protein synthesis increased 600% when 6 grams of EAA's were taken prior to training, vs only 400% prior. I do both, to cover all the bases

this is a great way to do it if. ive found however that you can get pretty good recovery by taking it trough the day with protein meals.

 

[ma70]

Any specific reason why it's EAAs over just plain protein (shakes or whole foods)?

 

[Mixelflick]

Sure is. The body takes time to break any intact protein into its constituent amino acids. Even whey (which is considered a "fast" protein), takes 60 to 90 minutes to hit the bloodstream. That's way far too slow IMO for our purposes..

You also need to scrutinize your EAA's, because a LOT of the products sold today - Don't contain one of the EAA's!!! In a LOT of formulas's its L-Tryptophan. I've seen everything from arginine to tyrosine used in it's place, LOL. You won't have to google many products, to see I speak the truth..

 

[GreenMachineX]

this is a great way to do it if. ive found however that you can get pretty good recovery by taking it trough the day with protein meals.

Like 1 cap with meal, totaling 4 a day? Would that be a good place to start in your opinion?

How quickly did you guys notice effects with this?

 

[Mixelflick]

Within 3 days...

* Much deeper sleep
* Thirsty as hell

First 2 weeks...

* Diminished DOMS
* Faster intra-set recovery

3 week plus mark...

*Greater muscle fullness, especially when dieting
*Much faster recovery
*Big increase in VO2 max
*More muscle and less fat, secondary to more weight being lifted per unit of time

 

[GreenMachineX]

Right on. I ordered a bottle of the iforce product and will be trying this out. Thanks.

 

[ma70]

We should get a thread of results/reviews for ECDY. I feel like this stuff has been around forever but no one has any anecdotal feedback (sort of like Laxogenin)

 

[Mixelflick]

We should get a thread of results/reviews for ECDY. I feel like this stuff has been around forever but no one has any anecdotal feedback (sort of like Laxogenin)

There's plenty of anecdotal feedback. I compiled around 10 years of posts prior to writing The Blueprint. Some of the most insightful reads on the practical application were Rick Brunner's. For those that remember, Brunner ran Atletika which sold a product called Retibol. The original (white tablets) were incredible, and people still talk about it to this day. He was the first to formulate a low molecular weight intra-workout powder (400 Daltons!), known as AminoFit. It tasted like absolute sh!t but my God, did it work well. Also had an excellent understanding of how to extend Ecdy's duration of action, effects on protein synthesis and the importance of methylation.

I studied all of it, prior to formulating Mass Pro Synthagen...

 

[ma70]

There's plenty of anecdotal feedback. I compiled around 10 years of posts prior to writing The Blueprint. Some of the most insightful reads on the practical application were Rick Brunner's. For those that remember, Brunner ran Atletika which sold a product called Retibol. The original (white tablets) were incredible, and people still talk about it to this day. He was the first to formulate a low molecular weight intra-workout powder (400 Daltons!), known as AminoFit. It tasted like absolute sh!t but my God, did it work well. Also had an excellent understanding of how to extend Ecdy's duration of action, effects on protein synthesis and the importance of methylation.

I studied all of it, prior to formulating Mass Pro Synthagen...

Ah wow. Never heard of Mass Pro Synthagen and never knew you were the formulator. I'll look it up

 

[Jiigzz]

Sure is. The body takes time to break any intact protein into its constituent amino acids. Even whey (which is considered a "fast" protein), takes 60 to 90 minutes to hit the bloodstream. That's way far too slow IMO for our purposes..

You also need to scrutinize your EAA's, because a LOT of the products sold today - Don't contain one of the EAA's!!! In a LOT of formulas's its L-Tryptophan. I've seen everything from arginine to tyrosine used in it's place, LOL. You won't have to google many products, to see I speak the truth..

There is a reason for this; but perhaps you know this already? L-tryptophan competes for absorption with other EAAs

 

[Mixelflick]

When you're taking grams of it and trying to cross the blood/brain barrier for insomnia, sure. That's not the objective here, protein synthesis is...

"Protein synthesis

The principal role of tryptophan in the human body is as a constituent of protein synthesis. Because tryptophan is found in the lowest concentrations among the amino acids, it is relatively less available and is thought to play a rate-limiting role during protein synthesis..."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908021/

 

[Mixelflick]

There is a reason for this; but perhaps you know this already? L-tryptophan competes for absorption with other EAAs

Now that we've established Tryptophan isn't just necessary, but may play a rate limiting role in protein synthesis - question for all the guys using them:

Does your product contain all 9?

histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine.

 

[Mixelflick]

In an effort to summarize, here's what I think the consumer needs to know if interested in Ecdy:

1.) Find a product with (ideally), a full spectrum Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract. Failing that, something with RCE
2.) Ensure said product contains all 9 EAA's. If not, make sure you dose EAA's alongside RCE
3.) Scrutinize your EAA's such that no EAA's are missing!
4.) Use the product during a cut or re-comp, not in a bulking environment
5.) There are 4, perhaps 5 products on the market that qualify
6.) Stay the hell away from Cyanotis Vaga

 

[ma70]

In an effort to summarize, here's what I think the consumer needs to know if interested in Ecdy:

1.) Find a product with (ideally), a full spectrum Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract. Failing that, something with RCE
2.) Ensure said product contains all 9 EAA's. If not, make sure you dose EAA's alongside RCE
3.) Scrutinize your EAA's such that no EAA's are missing!
4.) Use the product during a cut or re-comp, not in a bulking environment
5.) There are 4, perhaps 5 products on the market that qualify
6.) Stay the hell away from Cyanotis Vaga

Great post.

 

[Mixelflick]

Thanks man. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, I enjoy helping members out - regardless of who's product they use.

 

[koi1214]

In an effort to summarize, here's what I think the consumer needs to know if interested in Ecdy:

1.) Find a product with (ideally), a full spectrum Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract. Failing that, something with RCE
2.) Ensure said product contains all 9 EAA's. If not, make sure you dose EAA's alongside RCE
3.) Scrutinize your EAA's such that no EAA's are missing!
4.) Use the product during a cut or re-comp, not in a bulking environment
5.) There are 4, perhaps 5 products on the market that qualify
6.) Stay the hell away from Cyanotis Vaga

Your thought on this?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/255375-transdermal-laxogenin-ecdy.html

 

[braskibra]

Hey thats my thread!!!! I was just curious on which to give a go, I may just go back to back and compare results

 

[koi1214]

Hey thats my thread!!!! I was just curious on which to give a go, I may just go back to back and compare results

Lol I know.

 

[mechka_grizli]

Sub for more info

 

[megadeth]

MPS is an INCREDIBLE supplement!

 

[ma70]

MPS is an INCREDIBLE supplement!

Have you tried it?

 

[megadeth]

Have you tried it?

Sure have and I have 2 bottles at home waiting for me when I get off the road.

I have experienced much of the same things as many others have. Better sleep, lightening fast recovery, quicker leaning effect. I was a doubter of Ecdy too, until I tried MPS.

 

[ma70]

I am guessing like most, you have used it on a cut?

 

[megadeth]

I am guessing like most, you have used it on a cut?

Yep or recomp. Too large to be bulking.

 

[Mixelflick]

Your thought on this?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/255375-transdermal-laxogenin-ecdy.html

Trans Laxogenin is a possibility, as it has a molecular weight of 430. You'd need a good PE (penetration enhancer), but certainly do-able. As for other Ecdy's being delivered this way, it's much more problematic. Of 476 known Ecdy's, most are in the high 400's, 500's and a few even carrying MW's of 600 or more.

DMSO will get a LOT of stuff through the skin, but you'll stink like garlic. Best to use only 1-2oz, with an equal amount of d-limonene. The latter has a pleasant citrus like scent, reminiscent of oranges...

 

[Mixelflick]

MPS is an INCREDIBLE supplement!

Thanks for sharing your feedback brother...

Its rare when a supplement delivers on it's promises. Rarer still, that it has even more benefits than listed. I'm talking about healing injuries. I get that all the time from guys. Most of the feedback to that effect is over in Europe, but plenty of it here in the states too.

 

[kissdadookie]

Sure is. The body takes time to break any intact protein into its constituent amino acids. Even whey (which is considered a "fast" protein), takes 60 to 90 minutes to hit the bloodstream. That's way far too slow IMO for our purposes..

You also need to scrutinize your EAA's, because a LOT of the products sold today - Don't contain one of the EAA's!!! In a LOT of formulas's its L-Tryptophan. I've seen everything from arginine to tyrosine used in it's place, LOL. You won't have to google many products, to see I speak the truth..

Does it really matter if l-tryptophan is missing in an EAA blend though? Isn’t that the one amino that basically loses to the other EAAs and especially BCAAs in terms of uptake since they compete with it?

I guess you'll still get some tryptophan if dosed higher in the blend. Would hydro casein be superior to EAAs for the purpose of pre and intra protein synthesis purposes since the di and tri peptides are absorbed intact but at the rate of free form?

 

[Mixelflick]

Absolutely crucial it be in there, and it can NOT be synthesized by the body. The primary function of tryptophan in humans is protein synthesis. Because it's found in low concentrations (vs. the other AA's),among the amino acids, researcher's who've studied it think it plays a rate-limiting role during protein synthesis..."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908021/

Where it IS problematic is when trying to get Tryptophan across the blood/brain barrier, to convert to serotonin. The other amino's will compete (and win), washing out its effects. This is true of Glycine, GABA and other amino's designed to elicit a calming and/or GH releasing effect. Prove it to yourself. Down 3-5g GABA on an empty stomach, then repeat that experiment after having a scoop of whey.

I'm suggesting GABA because you can for sure feel it. On an empty stomach, you get a parasthesia type of effect not unlike a niacin flush. You won't get that, when consuming it with other large neutral AA's, or even protein foods...

 

[kissdadookie]

Absolutely crucial it be in there, and it can NOT be synthesized by the body. The primary function of tryptophan in humans is protein synthesis. Because it's found in low concentrations (vs. the other AA's),among the amino acids, researcher's who've studied it think it plays a rate-limiting role during protein synthesis..."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908021/

Where it IS problematic is when trying to get Tryptophan across the blood/brain barrier, to convert to serotonin. The other amino's will compete (and win), washing out its effects. This is true of Glycine, GABA and other amino's designed to elicit a calming and/or GH releasing effect. Prove it to yourself. Down 3-5g GABA on an empty stomach, then repeat that experiment after having a scoop of whey.

I'm suggesting GABA because you can for sure feel it. On an empty stomach, you get a parasthesia type of effect not unlike a niacin flush. You won't get that, when consuming it with other large neutral AA's, or even protein foods...

Gotcha, thanks!

 

[ma70]

Can't wait for my next summer cut to try MPS. I like supporting innovators.

 

[Mixelflick]

Can't wait for my next summer cut to try MPS. I like supporting innovators.

Thanks so much brother,

MPS can be used on a bulk for the enhanced recovery, but it really shines on a cut/re-comp.

 

[ma70]

Thanks so much brother,

MPS can be used on a bulk for the enhanced recovery, but it really shines on a cut/re-comp.

Well I can't decide if I want to continue cutting this winter after my sponsored log or if I want to hold off until a few months from now. Tough decisions.