Dumb Question- If Bush Could Run Again, Would You Vote For Him?

[cj1130]

i have to say that i am enjoying reading this thread because i like the honesty

 

[CDB]

i have to say that i am enjoying reading this thread because i like the honesty

Notice too how the poll here roughly reflects the poll numbers in the real world regarding his approval ratings, etc? That's interesting, as I always viewed this board as having a larger conservative presence. Maybe liberals are just lurking, I honestly expected this to be more of a 50/50 split as it progressed.

 

[ckohl23]

no, but i will miss laughing at all his funny faces and expressions

 

[CDB]

no, but i will miss laughing at all his funny faces and expressions

No ****. Bill Maher comes up with some of the best funny photos of W I've ever seen. I'm also going to miss his butchery of the English language when he's gone.

 

[Lightning]

I didnt vote for him the last 2 times and I surely wouldnt vote for him again. I am going to miss him though. No President has ever cracked me up the way he has. The way he smirks at the most inopportune times and his creative use of the english language are the things I'll miss the most.

 

[The Experiment]

Maynard Meek posted up a list of what good Bush has done. I found some things finally. I had to undertake a massive spiritual journey and undertook many an epic quest.

- Declaring war on both terrorism and the English language. Now I can make up new words as I see fit. Besides, why do I have to follow some words created by dead white men? I'm a revolutionary, a savior, like Bush.

- Wiped his ass with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Since they're pretty old I figured they felt smooth on his ass. Thats why he smirks. His ass is fresh and clean. I would be smiling too.

- The world still isn't a smoking hole but there's still 2 years left. That has to count for something, kind of like partial credit given to us on tests.

- Taken secret and shady governments to new and exciting heights. Its like climbing Mount Everest. Instead of climbing a mountain, he's ruining people's lives. Every day I read the newspaper to see if he's going to eliminate another civil liberty...without an actual vote taking place.

- He hasn't choked on a pretzel in years. Well, that we know about. For that, I salute him.

- Multi-trillion dollar budgets but almost every social service is getting slashed and military numbers don't add up to the amount being spent. Billions are missing and nobody wants to check it out. So props to Bush for introducing the Bizarro Economy.

- Finally, he has set the bar so low that any average joe can be President and still have 59+ million goobers vote and probably pray for him to win.

 

[Joe_Halt]

Not just no Hell No!

 

[Peatee]

Why are you all degrading McCain? He would make a great President. The man was a POW and a war hero, how the heck does he not have any testicles or fortitude?

 

[Peatee]

I didnt vote for him the last 2 times and I surely wouldnt vote for him again. I am going to miss him though. No President has ever cracked me up the way he has. The way he smirks at the most inopportune times and his creative use of the english language are the things I'll miss the most.

He is funny. I love when Letterman makes fun of him with the "Greateest Moments in Presidential History" bit. Funny as hell.

 

[CNorris]

No one really likes Bush. But Bush or Hitlary? Hmm... Bush. Bush or McCain? McCain is more competent, even though he is a douche bag. McCain. Bush or Kerry? Id rather pound my nuts with a hammer on the sidewalk than see Kerry as president. Bush is a moron, but less of a Moron than any Democratic candidate. He actually got better grades than Kerry remember. :icon_lol:
Thats not a story the NYT covered. And Al Gore has just gone off the deep end. All of a sudden he looks like the homosexual love child of Karl Marx and Michael Moore.

Its better to go AWOL like Bush than to serve with the intention of betraying your country to launch a left wing political career. IE Kerry.

I hate republicans... But I really ****ing hate liberals.

 

[Nullifidian]

I'll admit, though I dislike Bush is heart was in the right place. Problem is his plan has sucked ass.

What we needed was a general leading this nation. A skilled general with a great track record for victory.

 

[Dr Liftalot]

hell fukin noo, that guy has basically run us in debt, taken our civil libertys, pretty much stands for everything i'm against, (even war aside) Cause saddem was a peace of ****, but at least he was keepin islame in check down there.

God we need a strong liberal to run up against the Neo con's but dosnt seem to matter since there all basically in bed with each other anyways, they just blind us with this whole DEMvsREP as a way to divid and concurr.

**** illect bill gates, dude already has all the money he needs so he won't get bought out. And he's done wonderful things with his Gates foundation.

Dr liftalot

 

[MaynardMeek]

Actually he hasn't done much good at all. Pumping money in causes that for years and years have been given billions only to fail is not a smart way to hand out funds. His most recent "gift" of money was to a tax exempt trust fund of sorts. Within this fund, though he cannot have access to his money directly, he still keeps his net worth and credit. A net worth that is now untouchable by the IRS. In short, he just pays less taxes then he did before. Most multi-millionairs do what he has done to save his cash from government hands....

The new figues shows that our "debt" is not nearly as much as projected figure the media expressed it would be. Last year, our economy grew at 3.5 percent, and in the first quarter of this year, it grew at an annual rate of 5.6 percent. Over the past three years, our economy has grown by more than $1.3 trillion, an amount that is larger than the size of the entire Canadian or South Korean economy.

Thanks to economic growth and the rise in tax revenues, this year the deficit will shrink to 2.3 percent of GDP. That's about the same as the average over the past 40 years.

Here are some hard numbers: Our originial projection for this year's budget deficit was $423 billion. That was a projection. That's what we thought was going to happen. That's what Bush sent up to the Congress, here's what he thinks. The report from OMB tells us that this year's deficit will actually come in at about $296 billion. At this rate we can cut the federal deficit in half by 2008 -- or 2009. Bush is now a full year ahead of schedule.

 

[D_town]

hell fukin noo, that guy has basically run us in debt, taken our civil libertys, pretty much stands for everything i'm against, (even war aside) Cause saddem was a peace of ****, but at least he was keepin islame in check down there.

God we need a strong liberal to run up against the Neo con's but dosnt seem to matter since there all basically in bed with each other anyways, they just blind us with this whole DEMvsREP as a way to divid and concurr.

**** illect bill gates, dude already has all the money he needs so he won't get bought out. And he's done wonderful things with his Gates foundation.

Dr liftalot

Do you try to spell as bad as you do or is it sarcasm to spell terrible and say ignorant things... :icon_lol:

 

[Dr Liftalot]

Do you try to spell as bad as you do or is it sarcasm to spell terrible and say ignorant things... :icon_lol:

I wasnt being sarcastic, he really did those things. I just happen to make that post mid sleep cycle after taking REM! I was out of it hard core, sorry about general lack of spell check and grammer.

:icon_lol:

 

[CNorris]

hell fukin noo, that guy has basically run us in debt, taken our civil libertys, pretty much stands for everything i'm against, (even war aside) Cause saddem was a peace of ****, but at least he was keepin islame in check down there.
Dr liftalot

OK now that Maynard provided some insight on the Debt Ill handle the civil liberties.

What exact liberties of yours have been infringed upon? Let me here about these invisible phantom liberties you believe are gone. There is nothing that pisses me off than all these ACLU pussy freaks that think Al Quaida should be able to call people in America and not be listened to. Remember, the CIA and FBI's hands were tied by leftist idealistically ignoranst douche bags in the first place. This is the reason the Gov't was completely powerless to prevent 911. And keeping Al Qaida members awake, forcing them to listen to rap music, interrogating them with women is Torture now? Give me a ****ing break. All these childishly idealistic leftist Mooreon freaks need their parents and families killed by terrorists, then they might wake up.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

I have voted for him twice,mostly because I despised his opponents.John Kerry could run against the anti-christ and I still couldn't vote for him. I do not agree with everything our president does with the war in Iraq at the top of my list of things I do not agree with, but I would vote for him again against any candidate the demoncats would produce.I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "get the U.S. out of the U.N. and U.N. out of the U.S. give me a candidate who feels this way and also one who wants to slay the beast that is the irs and he/she has my vote regardless of party affiliation.

 

[BigVrunga]

I think Bush's decisions have fvcked up the world, and the country pretty bad. My kids, when I eventually have them, will be dealing with the negative repercussions from this administration, and Im sure theirs will too.

BV

 

[Dr Liftalot]

OK now that Maynard provided some insight on the Debt Ill handle the civil liberties.

What exact liberties of yours have been infringed upon? Let me here about these invisible phantom liberties you believe are gone. There is nothing that pisses me off than all these ACLU pussy freaks that think Al Quaida should be able to call people in America and not be listened to. Remember, the CIA and FBI's hands were tied by leftist idealistically ignoranst douche bags in the first place. This is the reason the Gov't was completely powerless to prevent 911. And keeping Al Qaida members awake, forcing them to listen to rap music, interrogating them with women is Torture now? Give me a ****ing break. All these childishly idealistic leftist Mooreon freaks need their parents and families killed by terrorists, then they might wake up.

I noticed you asked the commen question which most bush supporters ask. "What libertys of yours have been infringed apon" ? > Personally not alot, but he's the biggest threat to our liberty outside of radical or general muslims considering the radicals make up a good 90% of islam from what we've seen as of late.

Just do a little google search and it should bring up all the answers you seek as far as bush changing laws left and right, He's changed more laws and done more to harm the constitution then any good he's done. Now i don't neccarly think him taking out saddam was a bad thing, but lets face the facts. He's done a number on everyone and is a moron who's managed to outsource American Jobs *good paying ones* and is on the side of big corperation.

I know they have a team of lawyers judges etc all put together from around the US to debate how he's using his presidental powers and how he wants to change the consitition. Let me quote something they found " He destroying the checks and balances our nation was built apon"

Now outside of his radical flaws in fiergn policey,The guy is against things like gay mairrage, abortion, stem cell research, etc. All things i believe in, i believe in the right to persue life liberty and justice. His warping of laws to protect us from our selve's using fear and catchey frazes has just gone to far. I understand a need for national security, but i would not sacarific my liberty for security. As in the words of all Benjamin Franklin
Those who would sacrific Liberty for Security DESERVE NETHER.

I have nothing against your political views and since i like everyone on AM i'll just agree to disagree since politices are like opionins and opionins are like *******s, because everyone has one. And things tend to get messey.

Anyways, i'll be sure to come back when i'm not about to pass out and spell check/site my sources etc. I managed to take a meletonin and Rem/powerfull (i work graveyard) and my fiancey calls me to come pick her up from work as she's sick. ARG! me tired!~

Take care guys!
drliftalot:bb:

 

[Dr Liftalot]

And holding people without fair and due process is also against our policey's

 

[Chad]

no sir

 

[MrTotality]

my goodness 73 people said yes? :think:

I didnt vote for him yet, and wouldnt start now.

 

[Chad]

wow this is a old thread. i wonder if all those people that said yes back then would say yes now?

 

[D_town]

wow this is a old thread. i wonder if all those people that said yes back then would say yes now?

Yes, I would.

 

[mmowry]

YES I would also!:thumbsup:

 

[anabolicrhino]

Bush was the better choice in 2000,...Al Gore? He doesn't even take himself seriously!

John Kerry 2004 was the worst candidate ever!

Kerry spent 20 million on an anti voter fraud program, then when the votes were close in Ohio,...he conceded victory to Bush! no recount nothing? Way to fight Johnny boy!!! Thank god he's not the president! He would have surrendered by now!

I think if Bush ran right now(2008) he would not even get his party's nomination.

 

[D_town]

The democrats got control of the house and the senate this year and have not done sh!t they said they would do. Many of them ran on moderate platforms and skated on the fraud and misconduct of a few righties, not to mention the war weariness.

The only thing they have done is tried to raise taxes (talk about letting Bush's tax cuts expire), make time tables for withdraw (cut n run) and talk about impeaching everyone from Alberto Gonzalez to Cheney to our damned President, who is the only one with a damned backbone left. You need to remember, he's the only one who doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected.

:afro:


Don't even get me started on freakin Nancy Pelosi, John Murtha, and the rest of those hippies...

 

[Chad]

The democrats got control of the house and the senate this year and have not done sh!t they said they would do. Many of them ran on moderate platforms and skated on the fraud and misconduct of a few righties, not to mention the war weariness.

The only thing they have done is tried to raise taxes (talk about letting Bush's tax cuts expire), make time tables for withdraw (cut n run) and talk about impeaching everyone from Alberto Gonzalez to Cheney to our damned President, who is the only one with a damned backbone left. You need to remember, he's the only one who doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected.

:afro:


Don't even get me started on freakin Nancy Pelosi, John Murtha, and the rest of those hippies...

they have tried to get us out of Iraq because THATS WHAT 70% of America wants!!!! thats why they were put in office. most people are sick of this war and want it over. so the "hippies" are the only ones doing their job.

 

[D_town]

they have tried to get us out of Iraq because THATS WHAT 70% of America wants!!!! thats why they were put in office. most people are sick of this war and want it over. so the "hippies" are the only ones doing their job.

Currently our congress has a lower approval rating than our President... How ya like them apples.

So, would you like it our troops packed up their stuff and left Iraq tomorrow, regardless of what would happen afterwards. As long as our military, whose job it is to protect our nation, quits fighting the terrorists who vow to kill us where ever they can and are determined to continue the chaos in Iraq and can't wait for us to leave.

To all you hippies, I would love to give PEACE a chance, but peace cannot be a one-sided concept. The Islamic fundamentalists are at WAR with us and right now Iraq is the battleground.

I am for the generals figuring out the best way to end it ASAP, but not for just leaving because people don't like war. Our generals, not our politicians.

 

[Chad]

Currently our congress has a lower approval rating than our President... How ya like them apples.

So, would you like it our troops packed up their stuff and left Iraq tomorrow, regardless of what would happen afterwards. As long as our military, whose job it is to protect our nation, quits fighting the terrorists who vow to kill us where ever they can and are determined to continue the chaos in Iraq and can't wait for us to leave.

To all you hippies, I would love to give PEACE a chance, but peace cannot be a one-sided concept. The Islamic fundamentalists are at WAR with us and right now Iraq is the battleground.

I am for the generals figuring out the best way to end it ASAP, but not for just leaving because people don't like war. Our generals, not our politicians.

i am far from a tree hugging, peace loving hippie. if it was my call we would drop some nukes on the whole middle east. i`m just sick of seeing 100+ U.S troops getting killed a month for what seems like no reason. we look like ass holes over there bc we are the biggest and strongest nation in the world and we`re getting our asses handed to us by a bunch of rag heads.

unless the retards in charge of this mess get it on the right track SOON, why should we let our troops get killed while the leaders sit around with their thumbs up their asses.

 

[D_town]

i am far from a tree hugging, peace loving hippie. if it was my call we would drop some nukes on the whole middle east. i`m just sick of seeing 100+ U.S troops getting killed a month for what seems like no reason. we look like ass holes over there bc we are the biggest and strongest nation in the world and we`re getting our asses handed to us by a bunch of rag heads.

unless the retards in charge of this mess get it on the right track SOON, why should we let our troops get killed while the leaders sit around with their thumbs up their asses.

Agreed! :thumbsup:

The rules of engagement need to be revised because this is not a conventional war and our enemies follow no rules or codes of conduct.

But just leaving will cause a much larger problem destined for a later time. I saw a program by Ted Coppel called 'Our Children's Children's War' and the title decribes it very well. It is a sad reality we live within. Our world has a lot of major propblems and running away because we can't figure it out is not a viable option. I agree that sitting there while our tropps are blown up and kidnapped is not acceptable either. Stategy must be changed and implemented swiftly to fvck them up.

Long term, things must change as well. Much more good-will and education has to be our approach, much like our military has done in parts of Africa. But, right now, more swift action is required than that in the Middle East.

 

[slow-mun]

Agreed! :thumbsup:

The rules of engagement need to be revised because this is not a conventional war and our enemies follow no rules or codes of conduct.

But just leaving will cause a much larger problem destined for a later time. I saw a program by Ted Coppel called 'Our Children's Children's War' and the title decribes it very well. It is a sad reality we live within. Our world has a lot of major propblems and running away because we can't figure it out is not a viable option. I agree that sitting there while our tropps are blown up and kidnapped is not acceptable either. Stategy must be changed and implemented swiftly to fvck them up.

Long term, things must change as well. Much more good-will and education has to be our approach, much like our military has done in parts of Africa. But, right now, more swift action is required than that in the Middle East.

Honestly, the hands of the troops in the middle east are tied by the R.O.E.. When I was in Iraq, there was much that couldn't be done b/c of the bureaucracy. Every sector has its own problems and its own way of fixing them. Many of the people in charge will try to incorporate strategies that simply do not work. There are career officers trying to make their careers while in Iraq, at the expense of their troops. There also needs to be more Special Forces troops within Iraq. Conventional forces cannot adequately operate within certain sectors. The alligence of the local population can be bought and sold very easily. A friendly group of Iraqis can become terrorists over-night. The Iraqi army is a farce and will never become the stabilization force that the government would have you believe. Its never reported how often they actually desert. Their families are sometimes butchered, b/c they are in the Army. You think our Army has retention problems? Their Army is far worse. Its almost like this, have a paying job at the expense of your family and friends or simply become a terrorist and have everyone revere you for being a martyr. Bush should have listened to Colin Powell at the beginning, b/c everything he stated about OIF has come to pass(not enough troops to stabilize the region post war/sunni shia civil war). Its likely that more bad will come before this is over. The bottom line is, Bush tried to do too much too soon. He thought that Iraq would have some kind of democratic, domino effect in the region and it hasn't. Would I vote Democrat this next election? No, the military was in disarray during the Clinton administartion. We didn't even have bullets to train with. My only hope is that a politician with some nuts will enter in the race. As of right now, the future looks fairly bleak. Bush was better of two bad politicians in the last two elections and that's why he was elected. I honestly don't know who can get things right, but its likely not going to be a Democrat. If we cut and run in the middle east, the entire region will be destabilized. The war will cross borders and there will be a large scale war between the two main faiths of Islam. Its a sad state of affairs.

 

[Chad]

nukes???? LOL.

yeah its all fcuked up. im sure no one knows how to changes things or there would have. but at what point do you give up?
4 years? 10? i just dont see an end to this.

 

[Nullifidian]

I love how everyone things everything can just be simplified into "just nuke them"

Hey how about this one? How about, let's not bother with them in the first place!

 

[D_town]

I love how everyone things everything can just be simplified into "just nuke them"

Hey how about this one? How about, let's not bother with them in the first place!

Because they bother with us.

I know you remember 9/11, Uss Cole, African embassies,...
let's give up, even though they never will, till we are all dead or converted.

 

[Sevename]

I love how everyone things everything can just be simplified into "just nuke them"

Hey how about this one? How about, let's not bother with them in the first place!

"They" started it. If we just pack up and come home, we're not coming alone. They'll be following. This isn't over when we say we want it to be over.

I don't believe the US will ever use nuclear weapons or any other WMD again, and neither do they. They aren't affraid of us any more. During the Clinton admin they kept making attacks on US property. The attacks kept getting a little bigger and a little bigger. How did the US respond? By doing nothing. Or you could say the Clinton admin did nothing. Then the 9/11 attacks came and people wanted to know, "What happened?" The average person is apparently just that dumb. Many just blame that on Bush too, since he was in office.

Some say this is another Vietnam. That isn't true for several reasons. Most of the Iraqi's are eduacated people with jobs and the country is industralized. Vietnam was just a rice paddy and still is. Vietnam never attacked us. We knew when we left Vietnam it was over. That isn't the case here. One way I believe it is the same is that there are too many polliticians involved and not enough good military men who are concerned solely with winning battles and taking care of the troops. Many of the military leaders now seem to be more concerned with how their actions in this conflict will effect their potential future political career.

I don't love George W. Bush but not fighting a war is alot easier than fighting one. I believe he's doing what he thinks is right at this point in time, weather it is or not. If he wanted the easy way out American troops would already be home. I give him credit for not taking the easy way out.

Fighting a war in Iraq is better than fighting a war in New York or any other US State as far as I'm concerned.

 

[D_town]

:rant: It is a sad fact that the Nancy Pelosi's, the Harry Reid's, and the John Murtha's of this world want us to quit. To come home and leave history written as President Bush and the Republican's being the one's who fvcked up. That could lead to Democratic control for the next election or two!!! So, screw the long term, screw making the world a better place for our future generations, let's make our President look bad.
It's not like he really needs any extra help at that. Every pic of him on the main stream new networks looks like a monkey, which is funny, I don't care who you are.

I respect our President and think he is morally a beautiful man, even if he is about as good at public speeking as I am at underwater basketweaving. The only thing I wish he would do is be more candid, more upfront and blunt, but, hey, he is a politician.

The overwhelming majority of our military does not want to come home until the job is done and are saints for doing what they have done and continue to do. But, who cares what they say, let's just make the Republicans look bad and blame this all on them. They did not start it, but had the balls to engage the enemy.

 

[Dr Liftalot]

Well no one can argue that the war wasn't a mistake, but going home cold turkey would be a big mistake. They need to work from the bottem up to stablize the country again. Start at the local level and eventually get a new goverment set up that can take control. Someone who can auctually put a postive face on Iraq and give people hope.

 

[Chad]

ok so tell me what would have to happen for us to " win " this war? tell me what it would take to be able to bring the troops home with out it being a mistake?
AND how long do you think it will take? just guess.

 

[D_town]

ok so tell me what would have to happen for us to " win " this war? tell me what it would take to be able to bring the troops home with out it being a mistake?
AND how long do you think it will take? just guess.

Iraq could take five, maybe ten years to build up to a way that we could leave, but smaller bases will remain, just like those set up throughout the globe.

Now, the War on Terror, the War on Islamic Fundementalism---That my friend is the million dollar question.
Our sworn enemies are endoctrining their children with hate toward all 'non-believers' and the West. They are fighting a war that may last hundreds of years and are willing to sit back and wait, keep operations small, wait till we stop watching, then boom- 1000's of bombs strike across the globe, IEDs, biological weapons, and if they have them, dirty bombs or even nuclear weaponry.

This is war for our civilization and don't get it twisted. They hate everything we stand for and want to remove us. Kill the JEWS, all Jews, they all should just be slaughtered. Sounds reasonible right. That's what Iran's big dog vows. Hez'bollah, Al' Queada, Islamic fundamentalists, Al-Arqam, fundamentalist Sunnis and Sh'ia, Sunetc... Sadr City... Bad people,.bad places. They would never put me in the talkes because it may make too much sense.

I took a sleeping pill and it's worj=king, I can barely see,

Good night, I gotta drive ti Chicago for an intervioew at 5 am ... Good Times!

All pray for me and if you don't pray, atleast widh for good things. Even if we disagree with polotics,

Peace does not work, even when Jane Fonda, Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Daryll Hannah...Good people I'm shore. Peace works well like Commnisn, in a perfect world without the interuption of outside evil forces. Like corruption and people wanting to kill regardless if we all embracde peace. Peace can work, been working on my street for quite some time, then it should work everywhere else,. Let;s do it.:fool2: :drunk: :cheers: :twisted: :trout::woohoo: :toofunny: :goodpost: :aargh: :frustrate
That's my block

 

[slow-mun]

I feel uncomfortable reading all of these posts that don't seem to comprehend that the two main Islamic groups are fighting each other within Iraq. The country is in the midst of a civil war. I've been there, things that you see and hear on TV are so dilluted that if you heard the rest you'd be sick to your stomach. The only thing uniting these two warring groups is the general disdain for the West and its culture. There is no stabilization that will occur. Iran is backing the shia in Iraq and the U.S. is doing very little to stop this. To win Iraq, you'd have to go into Iran. Its already become a true quagmire.

 

[Nullifidian]

No. "they" most certainly did not start this. WE started it. We supported the Shah of Iran. We funded Saddam Hussein. We funded Osama Bin Laden. We have had close ties to the royal family of Saudi Arabia. We have been the power that has supported everyone that has ever oppressed the people over there.

THEY most certainly did not start this. Read some history, and not just history that's 10 years old.

"They" started it. If we just pack up and come home, we're not coming alone. They'll be following. This isn't over when we say we want it to be over.

I don't believe the US will ever use nuclear weapons or any other WMD again, and neither do they. They aren't affraid of us any more. During the Clinton admin they kept making attacks on US property. The attacks kept getting a little bigger and a little bigger. How did the US respond? By doing nothing. Or you could say the Clinton admin did nothing. Then the 9/11 attacks came and people wanted to know, "What happened?" The average person is apparently just that dumb. Many just blame that on Bush too, since he was in office.

Some say this is another Vietnam. That isn't true for several reasons. Most of the Iraqi's are eduacated people with jobs and the country is industralized. Vietnam was just a rice paddy and still is. Vietnam never attacked us. We knew when we left Vietnam it was over. That isn't the case here. One way I believe it is the same is that there are too many polliticians involved and not enough good military men who are concerned solely with winning battles and taking care of the troops. Many of the military leaders now seem to be more concerned with how their actions in this conflict will effect their potential future political career.

I don't love George W. Bush but not fighting a war is alot easier than fighting one. I believe he's doing what he thinks is right at this point in time, weather it is or not. If he wanted the easy way out American troops would already be home. I give him credit for not taking the easy way out.

Fighting a war in Iraq is better than fighting a war in New York or any other US State as far as I'm concerned.

 

[anabolicrhino]

I feel uncomfortable reading all of these posts that don't seem to comprehend that the two main Islamic groups are fighting each other within Iraq. The country is in the midst of a civil war. I've been there, things that you see and hear on TV are so dilluted that if you heard the rest you'd be sick to your stomach. The only thing uniting these two warring groups is the general disdain for the West and its culture. There is no stabilization that will occur. Iran is backing the shia in Iraq and the U.S. is doing very little to stop this. To win Iraq, you'd have to go into Iran. Its already become a true quagmire.

I agree that the unifying factor for the Iraqi insurgents is expelling Western culture.
The funny thing is that the unifying factor used to be fear of Sadaam. another funny thing is that the southern Kurdish section of Iraq is completely peaceful no US soldier has died there since 2003,mostly because there are no soldiers there!

The first thing that will happen if the US left Iraq is that the 10% of insurgents that are "Al Queda" operatives would be massacred by the rest of the insurgents who consider them immoral and untrustworthy! Another problem solved!

This was about building 30+ military bases in Iraq, just like the Gulf War was about building military bases in Saudi Arabia!

The US will have to deal with groups of angry people as long as we occupy there home lands! See the history of Israel for a good example of how well this works!

If China had a naval fleet in the Gulf of Mexico and military bases in Texas, do you think some American would try and stop them ?

Next to Israel, Iran is the closest thing to a democracy in the middle east, all the OPEC nations are either kingdoms or dictatorships. Iran has popular elected officials.You can choose COKE or PEPSI.

There is no military or moral reason to engage Iran!

When the US left Vietnam in defeat in 1975, communism did not "sweep in" and dominate the region. Communism was flatly rejected by the people!

Capitalism assimilated and free trade has made South East Asia into a thriving market place!

The upside of Western Culture is the freedom of choice, so ultimately if the people of Iraq have no choice, then they have no freedom!

 

[rcaz01]

No. "they" most certainly did not start this. WE started it. We supported the Shah of Iran. We funded Saddam Hussein. We funded Osama Bin Laden. We have had close ties to the royal family of Saudi Arabia. We have been the power that has supported everyone that has ever oppressed the people over there.

THEY most certainly did not start this. Read some history, and not just history that's 10 years old.

"WE Started it" that is absolutely nuts! Yes, we have made mistakes in the Middle East but you can't armchair quarterback your way into how everything we did was wrong. Policies and decisions are made based on the best info on hand at the time. We will always have close ties to the Suadis even if we hated them, we need the oil and they control most of it. Yes, we funded Hussein but when something like that takes place you have no idea if the guy will turn into a complete lunmatic and start spitting into the face of the rest of the world.

All of this is the same as the ridiculous "WMD" argument.

As for leaving, I don't see the U.S. ever completely leaving. There are still troops in Korea, Vietnam, Germany, and so on it is just that the people there don't feel the need to blow up anyone in a military uniform. To pack up everything and leave would be a whole new level of irresponsibility...

And YES I would still vote for Bush, what is the Alternative?

 

[anabolicrhino]

"WE Started it" that is absolutely nuts! Yes, we have made mistakes in the Middle East but you can't armchair quarterback your way into how everything we did was wrong. Policies and decisions are made based on the best info on hand at the time. The US foreign policy in the middle east has been a mistake as evidenced by the current "blowback" situations. Just because the US has made mistakes in previous policy agendas does not make the US an evil place full of bad men. This can be easily proven by admitting the mistakes in foreign policy and showing the world by example, how a "democratic republic" should function. The checks and balance sytem of our government has been greatly tested by the Bush administration. Our system of government was bent backwards but is now correcting itself to further prove that we as Americans have the best system of government ever conceived.
Thank you Thomas Jefferson for having the foresight to predict people like the Neo cons and building a government to counter their policies of executive control of the constitution and the United States

All of this is the same as the ridiculous "WMD" argument.

As for leaving, I don't see the U.S. ever completely leaving. There are still troops in Korea, Vietnam, Germany, and so on it is just that the people there don't feel the need to blow up anyone in a military uniform. To pack up everything and leave would be a whole new level of irresponsibility...

This is where the US has made a mistake with the middle east.
Germany,Japan,Korea embraced western capitalism and have no religious reasons to not want a US presence in their countries

The very presence of non Muslims on Muslim land is desecration.

That is an incontrovertible fact.

The US must recognize that unless we can convert a few hundred million Muslims to another religion they will always be unhappy with non Muslim presence on Muslim land.

You don't have to agree with their religious views to understand why this is a quagmire!

 

[rcaz01]

AR, I agree with your comments on Muslims not accepting ANY form of government that is not based on their beliefs. I still thin the "WE sarted it statement" is NUTS, especially in the context of read some history. If I read some history then I will blame it all on Britain, Russia, and possibly the Romans instead of using the pieces that are convenient to implicate the U.S. and it's much shorter involvement.

I don't completely agree with your take on Korea, Vietnam, and add Japan. If you spend some time in Asia you learn that the U.S. is a necessary evil to them but not necessarily something they want. It is just a much better alternative than China!

As for Thomas Jefferson and his foresight on Neo Cons, while I do think TJ was brilliant, I don't follow. It sounds like you are pointing toward the crazy notion of a "Bush Theocracy". The entire separation of church and state issue is totally out of control and I think TJ would probably agree that what is often done today to get rid of crosses and such is the opposite of the founding fathers intentions. There is no mention of separation of church and state in the Constitution or any of the writings of the Founding Fathers. TJ's writings on the issue were all implying a need to keep government out of religion.

I bring this up because I am curious as to how Bush has tested our form of government checks and balances?

Has it been tested more than some of the previous administrations?

 

[Chad]

you`ve all made good points to stay in Iraq but the bottom line is that like 70% of America wants us out. and our government is " for the people, by the people ".
they pay for this war with their taxes. they are the boss. they put the dems in office to end the war.
just because 30% wants to stay doesn`t make it ok.

 

[anabolicrhino]

As for Thomas Jefferson and his foresight on Neo Cons, while I do think TJ was brilliant, I don't follow. It sounds like you are pointing toward the crazy notion of a "Bush Theocracy".

No, I actually think that Bush has been compromised by the people in his staff that are supposed to support him.

There is no mention of separation of church and state in the Constitution or any of the writings of the Founding Fathers. TJ's writings on the issue were all implying a need to keep government out of religion.

I would agree completely!

I bring this up because I am curious as to how Bush has tested our form of government checks and balances?

Has it been tested more than some of the previous administrations?

Not Bush, but members of his cabinet have attempted to compromise the Checks and Balance system in our constitution in the following ways;

2000 election - There was a county in Florida in which Al Gore received( -13,000 votes!) There was an immediate red flag and recounts were issued. Bush was ahead by about 600 votes when John Bolton,illegally stopped the recount! It went to the supreme court and the rest was history!

9/11/2001- NORAD, the USAF and the FAA fail to defend the US
against terrorist attack. Ultimately these departments answer to the President who ultimately is responsible "to defend America from enemies both domestic and abroad" He didn't even say he was sorry!..later blames Bill Clinton before the 2006 election!


10-26-2001- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act"]The Patriot Act[/URL]
Congress passed this act after any dissenters had anthrax sent to them.

a 500 page copy was received the night before the vote by congress most of which was never read by the people who signed it. The act contains many Bill of Rights denial clauses that were never discussed publicly. These denials are turned over at the state level by courts claiming they violate the constitution.

March 2003 - Iraq (incomplete) but that "yellow cake" story doesn't look so good anymore

February 2004 - torture and rendition(digital cameras)

2005 NSA wire tapping illegally spying on us citizens. Bush defends the tapping by explaining his lawyers did not think it was illegal and cites a FISA law that is irrelevant because the NSA as a civilian agency does not get a free pass on "no warrant" searches.

Bush then claims that as commander In chief he as the military leader can do what ever it takes to secure the country.

Actually military personnel cannot enact authority over any US citizens(unconstitutional), unless there is a martial law in effect, there was not

Also Bush as the president only becomes commander in chief during wartime. The congress has not declared a war since 1941!


2006The Valerie Plame case Libby libby libby!

2007 The Alberto Gonzales current activity is showing some ugliness with John Ashcroft being pressured on his sick bed to play ball with Cheney.

also Gonzales himself investigated for firing US attorneys that would not act according to "White house mandates" during alleged voter fraud investigations.

and finally Bush has chosen the "Opt out special privilege" on just about every Law he has signed. That means he does not have to follow the same laws that every other citizen must.
So much for, "by the people, of the people and for the people"

That very act alone separates him from the "checks and balance" system more than any other president!

oh and this just in!!!

 

[D_town]

Not Bush, but members of his cabinet have attempted to compromise the Checks and Balance system in our constitution in the following ways;

2000 election - There was a county in Florida in which Al Gore received( -13,000 votes!) There was an immediate red flag and recounts were issued. Bush was ahead by about 600 votes when John Bolton,illegally stopped the recount! It went to the supreme court and the rest was history!

9/11/2001- NORAD, the USAF and the FAA fail to defend the US
against terrorist attack. Ultimately these departments answer to the President who ultimately is responsible "to defend America from enemies both domestic and abroad" He didn't even say he was sorry!..later blames Bill Clinton before the 2006 election!


10-26-2001- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act"]The Patriot Act[/URL]
Congress passed this act after any dissenters had anthrax sent to them.

a 500 page copy was received the night before the vote by congress most of which was never read by the people who signed it. The act contains many Bill of Rights denial clauses that were never discussed publicly. These denials are turned over at the state level by courts claiming they violate the constitution.

March 2003 - Iraq (incomplete) but that "yellow cake" story doesn't look so good anymore

February 2004 - torture and rendition(digital cameras)

2005 NSA wire tapping illegally spying on us citizens. Bush defends the tapping by explaining his lawyers did not think it was illegal and cites a FISA law that is irrelevant because the NSA as a civilian agency does not get a free pass on "no warrant" searches.

Bush then claims that as commander In chief he as the military leader can do what ever it takes to secure the country.

Actually military personnel cannot enact authority over any US citizens(unconstitutional), unless there is a martial law in effect, there was not

Also Bush as the president only becomes commander in chief during wartime. The congress has not declared a war since 1941!


2006The Valerie Plame case Libby libby libby!

2007 The Alberto Gonzales current activity is showing some ugliness with John Ashcroft being pressured on his sick bed to play ball with Cheney.

also Gonzales himself investigated for firing US attorneys that would not act according to "White house mandates" during alleged voter fraud investigations.

and finally Bush has chosen the "Opt out special privilege" on just about every Law he has signed. That means he does not have to follow the same laws that every other citizen must.
So much for, "by the people, of the people and for the people"

That very act alone separates him from the "checks and balance" system more than any other president!

oh and this just in!!!

Well, aren't you full of far left talking points. Exaggeration please... You you insinuating our President sent anthrax to dissenters. Do you really consider AbU Gharib 'torture' and not plain and simple humiliation? In the case of Guantanimo- waterboarding anyone? As for 9/11 Cinton missed plenty of intel, however Bush's cabinent deserves plenty of fault as well. Gonzalez, he handled it wrong, YES, but did nothing wrong; they can let any US attorney go at any time they want for any reason. The Plame case was Lame. Gimme a break. And, War was declared on us whether we have 'declared' it back or not.

I'm sure you wish out President would be impeached. MoveON.FU

Hopefully my humor does not offend you too much.

 

[Nullifidian]

Well, aren't you full of far left talking points. Exaggeration please... You you insinuating our President sent anthrax to dissenters. Do you really consider AbU Gharib 'torture' and not plain and simple humiliation? In the case of Guantanimo- waterboarding anyone? As for 9/11 Cinton missed plenty of intel, however Bush's cabinent deserves plenty of fault as well. Gonzalez, he handled it wrong, YES, but did nothing wrong; they can let any US attorney go at any time they want for any reason. The Plame case was Lame. Gimme a break. And, War was declared on us whether we have 'declared' it back or not.

I'm sure you wish out President would be impeached. MoveON.FU

Hopefully my humor does not offend you too much.

Oh right, Clinton missed all the intel. Like for example the terrorist plot for New Year 2001 that was thwarted under Clinton as her was going out of office. Like the messages he left the Bush administration warning of Osama Bin Laden being an imminant threat. You know, the guy the Clinton was accused of "wagging the dog" when he launched cruise missiles at some of Bin Laden's camps.


This administration has been far and away the worst in the entirety of American history. It has TRAMPLED AND SPIT on the Constitution. It has stripped every US citizen of rights granted as far back as the friggin Magna Carta. Try to tell Jose Padilla otherwise. Guilty or not, he is an AMERICAN CITIZEN who was held without trial, without even being charged for YEARS. And that's just one of the cases we know about. For all we know there are countless others that are currently simply listed as "missing persons" cases in their hometown.

We are not at war. You cannot declare war on a concept. A war against terrorism cannot ever be won because as long as human beings live there will be terrorists. Because we are not at war, there is no legal or constitutional justification for the suspension of habeus corpus or the suspension of ANY US citizen's Constitutional Rights for any reason whatsoever.