Dorian yates style traing....feedback?

[Trapstar]

ok we all have heard of dorain yates blood and guts balls to the wall training.. for those of you who have not; it is essentially 2 warm up sets with moderately heavy weight, followed by one set all out maximum effort. usually do 4-5 exercise..


anyways i am very sore after switching from conventional 3 sets per oversize bodybuilding style to this..

i was wondering if anyone had some feedback for me? thoughts? experience? thanks guys

 

[DaJaP]

works well, i did i for 3 months. Are also breaking each rep into the negative, static, and positive? Obviously this happens every rep regardless, but if u perform a more pronuonced negative and pause diliberately for half a second at the bottom, u'll see better gains. I also noticed a greater mind muscle connection afterwards. When jumping back into the heavier weights and focusing a bit more of the positive movement, i found myself able to focus on isolating the muscle much better. I definitely still go down slow and pause for each rep because of it though, its given me much better form. And def stick to a minute rest, time urself. ****s no joke

 

[Trapstar]

awesome man thanks for the feed back, what were the gains mostly in, strngeth? size? im bulking with a ton of food (mostly clean) and rying to really pack on the size so i figured i give it a go.

oh and yes im doing the concentric and eccentric and the pause as well as 2-3 negatives after a set or two.

 

[DaJaP]

for me it was mainly strength gains. But like i said, the real take away for me was the mind muscle connection. You could push harder while still fully concentrating on the muscle your working on without bringing in secondaries, at least thats how i felt. GL dude

 

[Trapstar]

thanks man.

i wish i could get some feed back from other people on it too... lol

 

[jiberish]

I like his routines. I learned a little things watching the video a week in the dungeon. Where a guy gets trained by dorian, not just dorian training with his partner going CEMOOOOON SQUEEEZEE AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

But I think the main thing is just get one set but go to absolute failure and even beyond. The problem is some people don't know what their failure point is, it is a real mental battle. The brain is saying that is enough your at failure but at times you can still squeeze more out. This is always the case with leg press for me. So that being said really to get the most out of it you want a training partner for spots and you need to be 100% mentally in the moment at the gym.

But still I love the style and often do kind of routine. I also like FST-7 because it is a little bit of both 3 exercises dorian style with 1 pumping at the end.

 

[CoorsLight126]

Dorian Yates style of training is good for breaking strength gains and packing on size, but I think its a better style of training for someone who is not near their genetic potential, or who is on boatloads of gear. The problem with this training is it's often not enough sets to fully let the muscle adapt to heavier weights which can lead to injury. Even Dorian himself later said that if he had times where he trained lighter his longjevity in the sport would have been even longer. Basically his injuries forced him out the door. So my advice is to use this program sparingly.

 

[jiberish]

I thought it was because he trained too heavy while coming upto competitions. Hence not enough calories to fully recover which led to his injuries.

 

[warsteiner]

But I think the main thing is just get one set but go to absolute failure and even beyond. The problem is some people don't know what their failure point is, it is a real mental battle. The brain is saying that is enough your at failure but at times you can still squeeze more out. This is always the case with leg press for me. So that being said really to get the most out of it you want a training partner for spots and you need to be 100% mentally in the moment at the gym.

:goodpost:


OP - This is pretty much HIT that was pioneered (or at least made famous) by Mike Metzner. I seem to remember seeing pictures many years ago with Mike training/spotting Dorian for his sessions.

I think you have to be pretty advanced to do HIT and get the most out of it but give it a try for a couple of months, it could shock your body into growing.

 

[Mrbobcat]

Hey guys I just recently came across the blood and guts training on facebook and it looks very interesting. I'm a 41 yo natural bodybuilder, 5'8" and about 180. I've been using a basic upper/lower body split for the past 10 or 12 years. I periodize the weight over 12-14 weeks and strive to put 5-10 pound on the heavy lifts, but sometimes it just is'nt there for whatever reason. I never seem to gain any weight that stays. I might gain 5 pounds or so, but then I'll lose it later. From trial and error I find I go from 2 heavy sets of 8-10 down to 1 set when I get near failure, esp. on bench and squats.

Anyway, I'm thinking it can't hurt to give Dorian's routine a try, but I've found a couple different routines. My question is should I use the one on facebook in which he seems to use an isolation exercise for each muscle group before the heavy compound or use the more conventional routine that he used earlier? Also do you have to rest only 1 minute as I'm used to resting about 3 bet. sets? I'm thinking 2 min. would be a good compromise. Also what can you do for some of the lifts like decline if you don't have a partner? Maybe do them on the smith or just do them regular and stop just short of failure and do a drop set or two? One last question: Would you jump right into it full-bore if you have'nt done some of the exercises that he recommends in ages or give it a couple weeks to find what weights you can use for the recommended rep ranges?

 

[Mrbobcat]

anybody? the more I think about it, this may be a hard routine right now since I usually only go to true failure the last week or two of a routine, plus I have a new gf and not always sleeping enough. But then again, the volume and workouts are shorter and I'm not making any real gains with my current program.

 

[suoth825]

I have been doing his training routine since the start of July and my strength gains have gone through the roof, I don't know how I will ever go back to regular training. Balls to the wall every time I lift from now on.

 

[Mrbobcat]

I have been doing his training routine since the start of July and my strength gains have gone through the roof, I don't know how I will ever go back to regular training. Balls to the wall every time I lift from now on.

That sounds good. I don't think you can do this routine indefinitely though. I believe its supposed to be 6 weeks and then go light a week or two, maybe take a week off and then do it again. I suppose you could prolong it a little if everything was going smoothly though. I was thinking of kind of easing into it by doing a week or two of sub-max weights since I have'nt done some of the exercises he recommends in years and I'm not used to resting under 3 min. bet. sets either. btw, did you follow his latest routine exactly or did you modify it a little? I'm thinking of only doing the hack squats and not the leg presses for the legs since my left knee has been acting up lately and my quads are my most developed bodypart anyway.

 

[suoth825]

hack squats kill my knees so i did front squats instead, some sissy squats and added in some calf and forearms workouts and follow the rest of the routine without any changes.

 

[Bulkypinoy61]

Good stuff man!!

 

[Mrbobcat]

hack squats kill my knees so i did front squats instead, some sissy squats and added in some calf and forearms workouts and follow the rest of the routine without any changes.

I wonder if I should do the leg press instead of the hack's then or maybe alternate them? It seems like heavy leg presses used to bother my knees too, but its been years since I did any. Maybe I could try wrapping my knees when the weights get heavy too, have'nt done that in years either.

 

[Turnitup122]

i did this my first 8 months. i didnt even know it was a program i just did it cuz i never saw a point in extra sets that werent all out. worked pretty good for a few months.

 

[Mrbobcat]

I have kind of been doing a form of it too by trial and error. But I usually periodize over 12-15 weeks, starting with about 75% of my last highest weight for 8 reps and trying to beat it by 5-10 pounds by the end of the routine. But if you think about it, you're not really taxing your muscles until about 6 weeks in and not going to failure or near failure until the last couple weeks. It does'nt always work either for whatever reason and when that happens it's really a let down to spend around 3 months and not get any PR's on your workout sets and have to start over. At my age I have almost resigned to the fact I may not be able to get much bigger and the lighter weights at the beginning of the cycle keep you from getting burnt out or injured. But then again, I probably rarely go to "true" failure since I use mostly free weights without a spotter and almost never use forced reps, negatives or stripped sets. I think I want to give it one more push to see if I can at least hit 190 without too much added fat by giving this routine a try.

 

[Mrbobcat]

I just finished my first week of the blood and guts routine and thought I'd share my opinion so far. I set up my routine almost straight from the facebook course. The only changes I made were deletion of leg press, addition of dumbell shrugs, no stretching on leg day, an added warmup to some exercises and rest of about 2 min. bet. sets instead on one. I also decided to start at approx. 80% of what I thought my max weight would be for each exercise the first week, about 90% the 2nd and then go full-bore to failure week 3 to 9 with maybe adding some negatives in once in awhile. The reasoning for this is my knee still feels funny sometimes and I have'nt done a routine like this nor most of the exercises in years.

Day 1 chest and bis: I decided to do the declines on the smith machine and started a little heavy at 180 as it was taxing as I estimated the weight a little high, but I actually did'nt feel any tightness in my right shoulder as I almost always feel when flat benching. The inclines felt good too, but I estimated high on the flys at 40 as my chest was sore for 3 days. I think I like doing the conc. curls before straight bar as you can really feel the muscle working. Overall good workout. Day 2 legs: I started at 335 on the hack (which is more of a leg press) and it felt fairly light. I think I'll add 40-50 pounds next time. The rest of the workout went ok, but I bet the calf raises will be killer when I start the rest pause to failure sets. Decent workout. Day 3 rest. Day 4 shoulders and tris: Dumbell presses and side laterals felt ok as did low pulley laterals, but I started at the lightest weight (25) and it goes up by 15 lb increments and I'm sure that's too much so I'm not sure what I will do besides just doing extra reps? Once I go to failure on the pushdowns, I know the tri. ext. are going to be difficult if I add any more weight to it. Day 5 back: I was looking forward to this workout as my back needs the most work imo. I overestimated the weights on almost all the exercises and it was killer. I think the problem is its completely backwards how I'm used to working out as I'm used to starting with coumpounds like deads and rows and then finishing with stuff like pullovers. But I had'nt done pullovers or 1-arm rows in years so the pullovers at only 45 pumped up my lats and the rows at 65 were pretty heavy. The pulldowns and long pulley felt a little heavy too, maybe more like 90% max. The deads killed me and I only did 225 as I would normally go to low 300's or so. But I'm not used to doing them with the back fatigued and stopping at mid shins seems harder than actually setting the bar down, plus 10 reps seems kind of high for these. There's no way I'm going to add a bunch of weight to these next time like the hacks. I think I'll just add 10 pounds or so.

Overall not a bad routine I think, but I'm sure it will get harder when I actually go to failure. I'm gonna give it my best shot for the next couple months and if I don't gain some noticeable strength and a few pounds, I think I'm about ready to say f...it and try some gear for the first time in my life. I did some searching and it looks like its easier to find than what I thought if you can trust these online companies. But If I did end up trying them, it would most likely be tablets and only a short cycle. I'm not sure if it would be worth it or not to try and gain around 15-20 pounds or muscle I've been trying to get the past 10-15 years and never seem to get close to?